Optimize Your Nonprofit with Meddic Metrics for Nonprofit

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[Music] welcome to the non-profit show we are thrilled to have you here Julie and I have an amazing guest whom I've had the pleasure of getting to know over the last several years Brandy Lawson and she is founder lead strategist at fiery FX and I just love that shirt you have on here in the photo so you're going to talk to us and rather share five steps to discovering metrics that matter so stay with us before we jump into this uh we want to remind you who you're looking at or possibly listening to so Julia Patrick is here CEO of the American nonprofit Academy I'm Jared Ransom your non-profit nerd CEO of the Raven group and we are honored to have the continued support from our besties so thank you to blimmering American nonprofit Academy fundraising Academy at National University BG generous your part-time controller Staffing Boutique non-profit thought leader as well as the non-profit nerd these companies are here again year four for you so they're here to support you and your mission they have helped us produce over 700 episodes and you can find all of them on Roku Youtube Amazon Fire TV Vimeo as well as podcast so if you're a podcast listener like I am and I have a feeling Brandy you're probably a podcast listener uh sure put us there as well so uh what are some of your favorite podcasts Brandi oh uh my top favorite one is armchair expert they're really great conversations um I get a lot out of them oh good we'll have to check that out uh and yeah definitely cue out the non-profit show wherever you stream your podcast again our guest today none other than Brandi Lawson founder and Lead strategist at fiery FX welcome Brandi thank you Jared thank you Julia thanks for having me um I'm excited to be here to talk about these five steps to discovering metrics um maybe people might want a little know a little bit about why I'm talking about this yeah so in my in my career I've run my Agency for 10 years um before that I worked with technology companies one you might know of GoDaddy uh I did product development for them uh so I love data and data is the way that we stop guessing and stressing about important decisions so that's why I want to talk about this particular subject today because it was important when I worked in Tech and it's been critical as I run my own business and helped others with their marketing and dashboards as well you know I love that we're having this conversation I love that we're having this conversation at this time of the year and this is something that the nonprofit sector really needs to do a better job embracing because we tend to be such emotional empathetic people that a lot of times that drives our decisions and so to have you help us kind of understand why and how and when and where is a big deal and you suggest that we start with clear and specific goals with timelines yes about that so you might be going but wait I thought we were talking about metrics yes we're talking about metrics but we have no idea what we want to measure or the data to look at unless we know what we're trying to do so the first thing we start with is what are we trying to do so clear and specific goals and I don't care if you use the smart goal or there's another one that I like a little bit better called the exact from Carol Wilson but like use a structure if that's helpful for you set clear and specific goals because this is the basis of knowing the metrics that matter if you don't know what you're trying to do you cannot measure it that is true yeah I love it now this is going to be a heavy lift for a lot of organizations this isn't that easy and you can start small like okay when we dive into something new we're like yeah we get excited about it um we want to do the whole thing um so there's a concept in product development called minimum viable we called it minimum viable product I call it minimum viable metrics but like even minimum viable goal like if you've never done this before and you're like oh I don't know what is the one thing pick one thing this quarter what is the one thing this quarter that is important for you to achieve um maybe there's like seven things great I only want you to pick one for this particular exercise think about that one get a clear specific goal about that with the timeline and then you can follow the rest of these steps you don't have to do all the things all at once got it I I love that that that helps me frame up um this next thing and I'm really interested to get your your um your advice and your feedback because you say for each goal know when it's done yes so the goals kind of get a bad name because we like set these lofty big Ambitions that are like I'm gonna you know uh be a keynote speaker how will you know when that's done like if we don't have a Finish Line it's really hard to chart our course it's really hard to know how what kind of training so uh brene Brown um had a great way of positioning this she said paint it done so like fill in all the blanks like when you cross the finish line what does it look like so I'm just going to use the keynote speaker example so how will I know when I'm a keynote speaker um when I've done three keynote gigs when I've been paid for three Keynotes like Get Right paint it done like give me the visual as if you were doing a painting show me all the detail because that helps our brains then get more specific and the more specific you can be about the Finish Line the better you know when you get there right right one thing I say Brandy and I'm curious if this is the same as know when it's done is what does success look like yeah so is that yes or is that different um I think that they're very related um knowing when it's done is getting a specific point in time sometimes when we talk about what does success look like we're like what's the lifestyle what's the things that happening like what what's happening with your organization what does your organization look like when I'm asking like when is it done I want us a specific pinpoint like if you were to take a photograph of your cross at the Finish Line right this is but like you could think about the moment that you're crossing the finish line and what happens after the Finish Line like we talk about success is like kind of that whole environment um me I want I want the picture when you cross the finish line to attach to your goal I love that now with that do you create this list of leading indicators is that yes yeah so a nice segue so um it honestly kind of surprises me how many people are not familiar with the terminology of leading versus lagging indicators so just very quickly um a leading indicator are the things that you do on the way to getting the results you want so let's just say there's a fundraising goal we want to raise a million dollars this year that is a lagging indicator you don't actually have control over making people give you money you can do a lot of things to help facilitate that those are your leading indicators so in order to get to a million dollars of fundraising what are you going to do okay we're going to have three events we're going to get 500 people at each of those events we're gonna like all of the things that you can do in pursuit of that goal those are your leading indicators um if you're making sales like how many outbound calls are you making or how you try to look at the things that you have complete control over that you can take action on in pursuit of the ultimately the end goal the thing but most of the time the thing we want we don't have complete control over we can only take actions towards it right is there a certain number of leading indicators We should strive for or is that kind of nebulous um well it kind of depends on the goal like a big hairy goal like we're gonna we're gonna raise a million dollars this year like there's a lot of components to that if we break it down into okay we know we need three events okay for each each event like what are the things we're doing so breaking down the leading indicators there's no like specific number we're looking for we're just really kind to trying to define the things that are in our control and that we want to be tracking so that we can chart success towards doing all the things in our control to get to the end result we want right it is super nerdy and I love it well you know it's such an interesting thing because if you don't understand if you just have that goal you set yourself up for disappointment you need to understand the journey and what you need to be doing so you can work be working on it every day and we talk about those those things that that indicate you know our achievements and so so important but I gotta ask you this how are you tracking that and how do you determine that because it seems to me a lot of times we write a goal down it goes in a book it goes on a piece of paper and then we revisit it at the end of the year and then we're like oh damn right yeah exactly so um so this back to that concept of minimum viable so we can get crazy with cheese weight is on all of the tracking like I yeah analytics and all yes yes we can do all that the most simple way to start is a scorecard so figuring out I do this for sales in my organization so every week my objective is to have 10 outreaches and two sales calls and I track that in a Google sheet and a scorecard but what that allows me to see is the tricky thing about leading and legging indicators is that we can do a lot of work but it's kind of like weight loss like you're gonna go to the gym one and you're like well what happened why am I not stealth like you can see how the consistency adds up so scorecards it a simple spreadsheet it does not have to be fancy just what are your leading indicators are and track them with consistency so that you can one um all of our brains are very powerful but they're a little feeble inhuman so that we well we can reinforce for ourselves what's actually working because when you get that next big donor you can look back and go oh right we did all these things in pursuit of that but we wouldn't know if we weren't tracking them you are speaking my love language and I just shared this uh similar concept same concept to an organization as we talk about fundraising and donor portfolios and moves management because I too Brandy believe in the power of consistency and you know you do it you stay with it you know you keep going to the gym you keep eating healthy you keep making these outbound calls you keep meeting with your donors you keep inviting them to Coffee you will hit that million dollars like it is pretty much 99 you know I would say guarantee I know there's things that happen right there's things like I don't know an economic recession a pandemic yeah know it can absolutely come into play you know but I love this and I don't see that happening often enough within non-profits well with anyone like so also let's just recognize our human Tendencies here um consistency is hard um when it feels like a big lift we're probably not going to get it done so that's why like start small don't try to do it don't try don't go out and try to run a marathon like maybe take a walk around the block so like take the small step because then you can build on it and there is no shame in a small step one metric that you're tracking is more data than you've had and it will give you more information so that you can then you're excited about adding the second thing yeah I love that and I think you're right about uh we get so enamored by these big issues big goals and we look around and we're like oh my God everybody's doing these big things and then to take that small step I love love love the the idea of walking around the block versus running the marathon that really puts it into into play but what happens when you have like maybe a board or you have leadership or you have a funder that doesn't share this View and they're pushing pushing pushing for these like bigger things that just are so tough to to achieve well you know sometimes we have to connect the dots for people about what it takes to try things so it's not a zero additional effort to track things so when we right so we come in uh we I can come in and help your organization um write down all the goals Define all the Finish Lines see all the metrics and then put the tracking in but this is like ten to twenty thousand dollars to implement that whole thing and then each person has to take time and effort out of their day to be putting stuff in the scorecard there are a lot of automated things we can do but that's next level we can't automate things we don't know about yet we can't automate things that haven't been defined so it does take time and effort to do this chipping away at it like adding five minutes a week feels reasonable it's not going to overwhelm anybody we're not going to add to burnout and then we get some more data to make smarter decisions so when people come along and they're like can't we just wave the magic wand you then just kind of have to pull back the curtain and show them Oz and be like listen here's what's happening here's what we can do if you would like this big thing um let me know when you're ready to donate that money mm-hmm right yeah I I love that I also wonder and this is just um as you've been talking us through this process if you have a group that's never done this before what's this like learning curve like how do you do these things and and make this a best practice do you have any suggestions for us on that well first I think just recognize this is a skill okay so like riding a bike the first time you try to get on it you're gonna fumble there you're gonna have to put some extra effort there's gonna have to be dedicated time and then you're gonna build the skill or like going to the gym for this I went to two workout classes this week I can tell you my muscles are like I'm sorry what are you doing let's do more than me Brandy me too um but it takes dedicated time and effort to start building the skill don't expect to be good at it the second you get on that bike you're gonna have to pill um I also talk about like I've gotta I have a podcast I have a podcast series about um working with experts sometimes having the training wheels or the mom and dad behind the bike to hold you for that first couple times helps you get started so you know it can be helpful to have somebody who knows the system come in and give you a little bump start or just allow yourself the wobblies right allow yourself to wobblies in the beginning but because like but put the time on either in the existing meetings um to come back to this um and this is actually going to be our fifth step here but when we decide this is a priority we need to put it in a regular routine like whatever that is if it's a monthly staff meeting if it's a weekly uh check-in if whatever it is we allow five minutes for it to check in with it or chip away at it but consistency is our most powerful tool in building a skill I love I love that well well let's talk about that because you use the word surface this data to the organization with regularity and I love that you use the word surface I think that's a fascinating word to use why did you choose that word because the mechanism for visibility doesn't matter the just the fact that it gets visible consistently um and so there's many ways to do this so um dashboards we help our clients with dashboards all the time because that is a way that it just gets visible but those dashboards then have to be surfaced in the regular meetings or the interfacing or there has to be a time where people are interfacing with this data in my organization we have a weekly review and we have we call them rocks there are big things that we're doing for every quarter our rocks are in our weekly review we see them and talk about them every single week so I use surface because there's gonna be a mechanism that works for you whatever that is get it in the mechanism so that people can see this with consistency and be able to understand what's happening and take action that makes sense yeah I love that and I think that that's sometimes it's really tough to come back to those rocks that it's easier to especially in the nonprofit sector to like look at what's the immediate Fire And while we do need to deal with that these bigger things they just go further and further behind and then all we're doing is Crisis management you know it's funny you said that Julia there was a non-profit uh like Facebook Forum that I was on and someone asked like if you were to design a coffee mug for non-profits what would it say and someone literally put everything as crisis [Laughter] that tends to be kind of like the ethos you know is and I do feel that maybe that's the excuse of why many of us don't track this but Brandy I love that you're saying you know five minutes a day we can start with that that is equivalent to walking around the block as we prepare for our marathon training you know just this five minutes a day having that accountability and I'm curious if you could talk to the accountability um stand of it like are we doing that in our teams is the accountability that we surface this with the board like how do you address that well I think again it depends on what organization and what kind of accountability we want so for me um I keep track of my Outreach scorecard and every week when I do the weekly review which is shared with the team um I have to do it as part of the weekly review so I have built a mechanism that forces me to do it because you know what otherwise oh look fun things like I'm gonna go find something else to do um but as I've continued to do it and then I've used it to look back and like looked at look at so in our you know private sector uh the revenue versus my Outreach and I can connect the dots it becomes a valuable tool that I am motivated to use so our motivations can change so you may need to have more structured accountability in the beginning so maybe it is that every month we're going to surface it to the board so we do it um but then our motivation will change when we start to see that we can stop um you can't Google the answers to the Strategic questions in your organization no but you can start to build data that's going to help you see and inform your decision making so that you're smarter with the dollar so that you know the steps to make so that you've tracked the things and figured out what matters okay um to be able to make those decisions and and choose more wisely and you don't just jump into it you take tiny baby steps choose the things that are going to help force your hand if you need to right and build the structures because I don't have any willpower yeah and especially if I've been dealing with a lot of buyers like my energy reserves are tapped but I have built structures and Frameworks that keep me moving towards what I want and it makes it a lot lighter lift yeah so let me ask you this because I'm so fascinated by your um your approach and your sensibility um I think it's very uh realistic and in again breaking it down what is the best time of year to do this because so often I think just as a society we get all like you know ramped and amped up about the new year and new way and is this just something that is we should be doing it when everyone else is doing it or can you give us some guidelines on that um I think if if ever if like you're if like for non-profits I know that the Q4 is like the time where we're like scrambling for all the pennies that are gonna fall down because nobody wants to give them to the government cool um so maybe not a Q4 um if q1 is a small respite then great um if q1 is when you're starting to plant I know a couple organizations are starting to find their biggest event of the year and I can't even think about anything until March then then do it there's no right time again like when's the best time to plant a tree 20 years ago or today um do and and allow yourself baby steps I think this is also kind of where we get wrapped around the axle and we never start doing the things we think are going to be great is that we're like it has to be perfect or I can't do it at all right um yeah so so allowing the wobblies allowing the baby steps because seriously when I started my scorecard I was like but then I under like I understood that it would be really useful for me and the first quarter I could look back and go oh oh oh oh oh like I got all this information and like oh I can see where this is coming from and oh I can then make this repeatable because I know what happened to get me here then I was like then further motivated to be like what else could I track so that first go at it that first right on the bike is scary and hard and like just acknowledging and allowing it can sometimes get us past that yeah and go ahead Julia well what I hear you saying is really start with one thing and work it so you work the plan and we don't have a lot of time left but could you share with us the type of scorecard that you you that you're using I know the scorecard coming out of you know Harvard MBA School in the 70s is that old-fashioned one but what is working for you and what are you seeing is a more modern way of looking at this so simple is best and that's why we started with having a goal because we could track a million things and they mean nothing but if I start with the goal and I figure out what my leading indicators are then I can say all right what is the one thing I want to be sure that I am doing every day every week every month whatever it is and then like literally here's the date here's the thing I'm doing here's the number don't make it complicated simple is totally fine yeah I love it I like that and I was gonna add you know I think the motivation what you just expressed Brandy was like in the first 90 days it might have been kind of challenging to stick oh 100 challenging right and then you start seeing the data it builds in a Q2 Q3 and I would think by Q through three or four you're like I can't wait to track this because it's gonna show me you know it's gonna show me the picture it's gonna paint it itself for me um so I think that motivation when that happens that's what I I love seeing that shift yes and like riding a bike like you're gonna skin your knee you're gonna fall down they're like there's gonna be stuff that happens as you're building this skill yeah and for me it's like way easier on my brain to go oh it's as a skill which means I might not be good yet but I can keep doing it and I'll get better because if I'm like it's a talent and I don't have it then it gives me all the excuses but no all of these are things are just skills all you need is practice I love that you said that because that completely changes uh my perspective it really it really does it's an interesting thing skill versus Talent yes yep all these things are just skills yeah I never thought of it that way well I love this topic um because as we move into a brand new year I know many of us are looking at you know like where are we going um what are some of the things that we want to focus on so Brandy you share so much Insight I want to make sure we pull up your contact information but I also am curious you mentioned your own podcast so talk to us about that I'm curious where people could listen yes um it's called Leverage your spark it's on all of the podcast Outlets um we've got three seasons out each season kind of has its own theme season two is specifically about working with experts because blessed clients bless experts um like there's just like here's how you can show up for each other and get the most out of a relationship um and so that I really went in uh this last season was about marketing operations where I really talk about the technology and how it helps feel the marketing season four is coming at the end of January so I'm digging into more metrics and data um because I just think it's really powerful yeah and it's where we need to be it's where we need to be and our funders are asking for this you know our partners I mean it's just our donors uh this is really where we are moving as a sector and and we're one of the last sectors to really understand it so I'm just thrilled that you could come and and share this time with us um again Brandi Lawson founder lead strategist with fiery FX check out fieryfx.com the great website beautifully done and it really lets you understand kind of like what the work that you're doing you have a wonderful uh post on there about your journey and how you started looking at things differently um with business and life when you started measuring things differently so um yeah fieryfx.com check them out um wow Jared another great episode huh I know I want to take the credit like I'm like I booked her no it's really so good and really you know so grateful for you Brandi and truly this entire year um because of the consistency we've done here at the show we are seeing just like you know amazing guests amazing Insight amazing perspective so Brandi what you brought to the table today is amazing so thank you for watching my pleasure thanks for having me absolutely it's been amazing again I'm Julia Patrick CEO of the American nonprofit Academy been joined by the non-profit nerd herself Jarrett Ransom she's actually my non-profit nerd and she can be yours too but I claim her first and again we want to thank all of our presenting sponsors from Bloomerang American nonprofit Academy your part-time controller be generous funding Academy at National University Staffing Boutique non-profit thought leader and the non-profit nerd these are the folks that are with us day in and day out as we move well past our 700 at this 700th episode um and on to our into our fourth year of broadcasting so we want to say thank you for everyone we also want to end this episode as we end every episode to stay well so you can do well we'll see you back here tomorrow everyone Brandi thank you so much [Music] [Music]