Can I Sign Hawaii Banking PDF

Can i industry sign banking hawaii pdf myself

aloha everyone i want to call the informational briefing of the higher education committee to order this is a continuation for a budget briefing from february 23rd and this informational briefing includes the audio and video of remote participants is being streamed live streamed live on youtube you will find links to viewing options for all senate meetings on the live and on-demand video page of the legislature's website in the unlikely event that we have to abruptly end this meeting or this hearing due to major technical difficulties the committee will reconvene to discuss any outstanding businesses on tuesday march 9th at 3 pm and the public notice will be posted on the legislature's website and i'm sure none of you would like us to continue on to tuesday so hopefully we will have no disruptions members of the higher education committee here today vice chair michelle kidani i see online senator favela and that i see senator wakai i thought i saw him briefly up there um see is that everybody one two three four who are we missing oh uh senator agaron is he on i haven't seen him i'm sure they'll be joining us when they are able to because we do have some other hearings going on let's see so with that we're gonna get started and i do want to kind of um start where we sort of left off last time and then go back if i have additional questions our members have additional questions from our last meeting so why don't we start with the space utilization project and the atherton and sinclair i believe that we did get additional information from the university and so on the space utilization project is john janzon hi jan good afternoon um is this what you sent us is that the entire report for the space utilization program or project no we just focused we did a special analysis just on the atherton space compared against the sinclair library space so maybe i believe maybe i misunderstood and then i'm talking about the original one that you had sent us the three-pager um with the first oh that's a summary that's uh we don't actually it's that we don't actually have an actual um detailed report it's kind of in a it's in a it's in a computer database system but we can print out summaries of them okay no i was just wondering i wasn't quite sure so in the overall space utilization project that you folks have done and i'm sure you've shared it with the board of regents is that correct so it's more you did more than just these these halls i think these are like four buildings and and 20 something portable 65 portables so is that the extent of what you folks uh reviewed no we did it for the inventor of all of the main manoa campus buildings okay which is approximately you know 300 but we've we've highlighted we focus on the main buildings okay so maybe there are closer to 50 maybe main buildings okay good i just wanted that clarification because i thought oh if you only did these buildings then i was a little concerned because i thought that the report would have been on all of the major buildings and other campuses and you are going to get to as you said here the community colleges um you've started with leeward and we'll be moving on to other campuses have you completed the west oahu yes you have on that okay yes appreciate that clarification um so on the atherton you you post did send in the amounts so just to review the manure student housing [Music] bore 1.1 million dollars 1.01 million dollars of the cost the carrying costs to this point manure innovation center approximately 140 000 and bank interest from university funds 1.07 can you explain that uh quickly that's effectively uh system uh system we we have a treasury right that handles all of the investable funds on short on a short-term basis okay so that's system that system basically contributing i see okay so it's not anything that was generated or caused by the project itself it's just that all of your interests from all of your general funds and other cash that you might have the university has you took a portion of that to help pay for this not not general funds not general funds what funds so it's university funds special funds revolving funds that we hold on a short-term basis okay we don't we don't then can't invest general funds okay so there's no general funds in the in this um bank interest that's earning interest i should say um what is what is the yearly interest average yearly interest from all of that you know um i like to say we do better than the average bear you know that you can find out there but you know you're talking about like you know point zero one i don't know tell me about it yeah it was better than you know we thought we thought we were struggling three years ago but that's like way better than it is today but what's that number i kind of want to get a sense of how much is the 1.07 million that you're contributing to this project from bank interest in comparison to the total amount of bank interest you get a year yeah so it you know because interest rates are constantly um you know changing and because these are short-term investments so you're talking about whatever is the going interest rates for things that are you know typically less than three years so currently our interest rate uh you know in the current calendar year uh including last year even you're talking about something on the order of like point zero three percent um in terms of dollar wise the entire university for our short term cash on hand we we like to shoot for something you know in excess of a million dollars a year of interest um but you know then that was uh modest um you know three years ago but it's been it's you know that level has been going down because interest rates have been going down so you get about a million dollars um of interest for the last calendar year are you saying that or yeah so pretty much one whole year of interest went to went to this carrying cost for atherton uh i don't think it was all of the interest but you know decent portion of it but that's what you're that's what you folks submitted to me it says interest from uh funds so what else would it be what i'm telling you is that the specific and exact amount of interest that we earn it's going to be in the order of magnitude of you know a million could be as high as a million half you know the level of amount of revenue that we can generate from here can generate from interest you know it fluctuates from year to year it's a number of factors one of which has been interesting no i understand but this is this is current money um that you have been carrying so i assumed that this had to come from either the last year right i mean the last two years so over the last two years um what would the interest dollar amount have been each year yeah so so again i can't tell you the exact up but for 2020 it was less than uh what it was in 19. so it was about a million which is less than what it was in 2019. i want to say so like if you find my order banks i want to say back in 2018 it was close to three million a year but since 2018 it's been you know going down each year again interest rates have been going down that's one of the factors last year i want to say it was something on the order about a million million plus okay so it's safe to say that you've allocated almost 100 of last year's 2019 interest rate interest right because your report says you spent one you gave 1.07 million to this project for 2020 2019 2020 right that's a lot and then atherton rents is 300 000. so for for a total of two point five three two million that you folks have used for this project will these monies be reimbursed once the project that is that is part of the that's the business plan okay so the manual student housing will get back their 1.01 million the manure innovation center will get back there one 140 thousand dollars that's that correct that is that's part of the plan and the interest will be deposited back so is this over what period of time will they get the money back or is it one it depends on the production of net revenues out of the project but if you refer back to the pro forma that i gave you on the before the last meeting it kind of shows you that um there's anywhere from as low as 300 000 to as high as 1.4 million over the course of the pursuing 40 years now that will obviously have to depend on whether or not that revenue actually materializes right um at that level and also we have another public partner right we have uh foundation so there's a there will be a revenue split so all of that is you know part of the overall negotiations in terms of the business structure but you know based on the pro forma i think it's pretty clear that it's safe to say that at the current equity investment levels you know you're talking about like within 10 years of the initial project within 10 years you hope to have a positive so there will so this reimbursement won't take place till maybe another 10 15 years and then it'll be in small small increments right i mean you're not gonna reimburse them one million dollars right off the bat no no i think no so as the revenues start coming so even on the pro forma year one year one pro forma presumes that there's 300 000 in in revenue already year one is when would this beer one begin though 2024 20 project is open it's open for business in 2024. okay um so so the way it works is that 300 000 is going to be split between assume let's just assume the pro form is how it act actually works out that 300 000 actually is going to be split in some fashion between the foundation and uh so in whatever uh's portion is going to be let's say it's 50 50 for example that 150 000 would get divvied up between all of the invest all of the equity partners within uh so it's not like they get it all one time but they might get repaid back over the course of the entire you know period right that's what i was trying to say so you know they probably won't get it to get it all for years right after and then does this include the house years it will take years whether it takes three years or ten years or you know even longer again depends on the production so the performer is just what uh will get and hunt's portion is already calculated out correct is what's called above the line and uh and uh foundation's portion is basically the bottom line okay okay but again this is all this is all um predicated upon you getting 370 beds correct or more that's what the that's what the pru you're going in for 270 beds and that's true that that is what their application requests but the specific number of beds is still left to be determined so if the number goes down the whole performance has to be adjusted downward right performa yeah the performa there's a num well there's a number of dynamics at play right that could affect the performer right the bed count is only one of them okay getting through the timing you know getting through the pru that could also have an effect getting the rest of the project the rents are high right 1900 a month the rate rent rates the rent rates is another factor that's at play there's a couple of revenue generate revenue generating spaces in there that's you know that the private developer is supposed to commercialize whether or not that can happen um i mean what they can get for that there's a number of things that the developer can do and still hold on the bottom line but there's a number of things at play okay so now did hunt hunt comes up with these numbers as far as 95 occupancy 12 months out of the year and this high rents of 1900 i know there's a little bit lower one for a um smaller unit but um or shared unit i should say um did they come up with these numbers are these uh numbers well it's it's the developers numbers because they are the ones that are assuming and absorbing all of the risk okay so but but but uh our value add to have uh involved is that we help them with you know some sanity check around what they what they want to assume because obviously you know they would want the strongest bottom line for themselves but there are things that they have to you know keep in mind with uh so we help by providing insight you know what the rates are those rates actually are supported by a separate independent market study that they did but you know again they are absorbing all of the investment upfront costs on the project so it behooves them to put together something that makes sense for them that they feel that they can achieve okay well it just concerns me because normally dorms are nine months not 12 months and based on your own occupancy you guys don't get 95 occupancy um of your dorms and uh and 1900 plus dollars from what i'm hearing from from people even in my office saying that's more than their rent for an apartment a full-on apartment so i'm just concerned on how realistic these numbers are now hunt was the project development for mayor right housing right and didn't they get let go because what did they say here hakeem says the agency said in a statement public-private partnership doesn't mean providing a blank check from the taxpayers to the developer the hpha has been clear with hunt that its unilateral design changes and 400 million dollar budget increase were not acceptable so this is the isn't hot this is hunt right that's doing this project yeah so i so it's the same development company and i think it's the same office but i'm not i'm not actually familiar enough about what the tenants of that deal structure was it sounded like to me and i haven't talked to the team about the details but it sounded like to me you know because that's a state project that the state was committing a certain level of funding into the deal that you know for hunt to expand into the project right so the difference in that arrangement which is a that is also a typical and conventional v3 structure the difference between that and this one is we actually aren't the university or the foundation is not actually committing any monies into the project itself so this is 100 developer born risk that um so a lot of that is getting pushed off now the rates frankly the way that materialize yeah obviously because the developer has to recoup all their investment that's going to impact what the eventual rates are going to be but on the other hand you know if we if uh or foundation really wanted to control or have a say in that we should be willing to put money up front and i think in the public housing model where you absolutely have to control what the actual rents are going to be that is why the state has embedded interest to commit investment funds up front so that the developer doesn't get out of hand with what they're going to charge on right so it's a little bit different i guess it's a little bit different on the business model it's a little different on the clientele but that's a different structure so um but the point you know is the same developer these p3 structures are not all they are not all golden right they're not all automatically successful okay i just want to make sure we go in this with our eyes wide open we know what the risks are we know what the situation and whether they're taking all the risk the fact of the matter it's still a university project and monies have in fact been invested into this project and whether we get reimbursed for it is yet to be seen so i'm hoping that the university will be cautious and and cross their t's and dot their eyes because at the end of the day this is a university-wide state project um so i just want to make sure that you know just because they're taking all the risk that it's not going to end up being a white elephant at some point which i'm hearing it might be so you know excuse me if i'm cautious with money because i am and especially in this light members any questions before we move on to the next um area anybody no no okay okay um i'd like to talk about the faculty research positions the uh are tenured positions we had asked for a breakdown of how much general fund monies are actually being used for research tenured positions how much extramural funds and how much tuition and fees funds are actually going in to pay for these positions and i know that on the mainland and across the country a majority of the research salaries are paid for with extramural funding and these posit ons are required to have extramural funding or they do not exist and many universities require anywhere from a lower 40 percent to a high of 80 percent of the researchers salary to be covered by the research grants and i know your response to me was that you know we are working with uhpa on the classification resolution but you know this is not an excuse not to give the committee information because this is a budget briefing and we are looking at all of you the general funds that uh receives and whether or not we're working on a resolution is really not any excuse why we should not be given this information now you did give me a breakdown in general and it's interesting because the first time i asked for it you only gave me all of fy 2020 which included i guess temporary positions because in that slide remember you can find this on page six of the response the latest response and it showed where there was these positions were being paid 46.8 of their salaries were being used general funds 39.1 percent were extramural funds 9.3 percent were tuition and fees and 2.1 percent was rtrf but when i clarified in the second request and said pull out permanent positions do not include temporary positions because temporary positions are positions that is funded by the grant and only as long as that project and grant exists that position exists so it shouldn't be mixed with the permanent tenured researcher positions so when you did that it came out where 72.5 of their salaries are using general funds only 16.2 percent uses extra moral funding on funding from the grants eight percent comes out of tuition and fees for a total of 97 percent so you know this is this is um concerning that these tenured are positions where on the mainland they're mostly funded by extramural funding that the general funds proportion is so high as well as tuition and fees and i just get the distinct sense that somehow you're trying to minimize that when you only gave me the first report and i have to ask more clarity to make sure that i'm getting the numbers and why i'm asking for these numbers because we're concerned about the amount of general funds that is being used um also my understanding is that the tenured fact r faculty is only around 86 positions and that non-tenured track is about 79 and they bring in their own funding and tenure track is another 20. so i recall that there was a letter that about two years ago i got a copy saying that we were moving to asking for these researchers to bring in a percentage of their salaries so can you share it with me where we are at that policy i don't know who can answer that other president or bacillus i can take that one but first i want to also say a couple of make some couple of general observations here uh as you probably know and we have talked to uhpa uh you have a point about the art faculty and the university takes that very seriously but some of that is also part of the way we classify our position so it is up to us to take it back and work with uhpa to actually clarify these classifications because sometimes classifications and numbers can lead to misleading conclusions on on the letters of offer i my offices doesn't deal with that but the provost of manoa has been monitoring this i have talked to some of the deans of manoa i know the school of ocean earth and science and technology manages that extremely well i don't have the letters of offer but i can leave that to michael to answer because i know he he has been collecting those so okay i i receive a copy when you guys gave me your responses but this letter that i got is not the same letter that i had gotten i think two years ago that said for the first three years you don't bring it you don't have to bring in any extramural funding but from the third year you have to bring in at least nine percent and i remember that because i said nine percent that's i mean that's a drop in the bucket nine percent when all the colleges across the mainland is looking for 40 to 80 percent um so what happened what's can you give me an update on where that is and are those letters going out or they're not senator this is um from manoa i can maybe i can help a bit so thank you so as uh vice president cyramos has said my office has been monitoring the uh the appointment letters that have been going out and we've been working with the deans yeah you sent me the letter right didn't you send me a sample of the nine percent um i don't think so because i don't recall a nine percent number was you and what's his name that retired or left um both of you are working with me on that oh uh vice president is training extremely that's very strange yes um i can read i can read two examples um one from last year and one from the year before just to give you a sense of the essentially the template that we've we've asked the deans to adopt um so is it the same one that you folks already gave me attachment 585 because if it is you don't have to read this because we have a copy of it but this is not the same letter that stated um you know first three years you have no requirement from then on it's a nine percent well we don't i i do not recall one that says you have no requirement the more typical is the following the level of state salary support for this position will be 100 in the first year 91 in the second year and 82 in all of the following years so beginning with year three it goes down to 82 meaning they're responsible for at least 18 of their their salary beginning in year three and continuing thereafter oh that's better than the first letter i got so that's an improvement yeah that's that is the template that has been distributed and that um we are expecting so so why didn't i get a copy of why didn't that was submitted to us when i asked for that i can't explain okay because that's what i was looking at so when did those letters start if you can send us a copy uh 2019 for sure um i'm not sure if uh appreciated that but certainly for 1920 and as you know we've been in a freeze uh so there's nothing going on right now for 21. can you can you also tell us how many how many letters were actually signed and accepted under those provisions well i think we gave you that um senator in um let's see in our first response we reported a total of nine our positions and tenure track in the last two years nine in two years nine in two years and i should have michael is yeah is is that um don't the deans use different numbers depending on the nature of the position and the person and the unit you're muted you'd think i know how to do this because the our faculty have typically been all following this template that by the third year every research faculty member newly hired brings in at least two months of their own salary which translates into that that percentage okay so i'm assuming that the nine all nine of them got the same letter and they're all bringing it we'll have to bring it at least 18 percent of their by year three what happens after year three well they have signed an appointment letter where that is the expectation it depends on the unit has been my experience but if if that does not happen then there will be an expectation that there would be other other duties assigned no i'm saying what happens to a professor who is stays with us 20 years and so this one of these nine they stay with us for 20 years what happens after the third year do they maintain the 18 for the entire year does it go up is there any other expectation or it turns to be zero the expectation is that that is a minimum number and for these faculty to be promoted to receive tenure and to be promoted my experience at manoa is that that is regarded as a minimum number and that the the newly hired faculty will not have success in achieving tenure and then later promotion to higher ranks with a lower percentage okay but that's not true of the current current faculty though right the current are tenured faculty yeah the current the current faculty um may or in some rare instances in my experience may fall short of that but but the the ones that received tenure in recent in you know certainly over the last decade would be expected to achieve higher numbers than that okay because from what was submitted to me in the past there are some who weren't bringing very much money at all some zero um i mean yeah i might vary over the years but even from what you folks provided to me you said only 16.2 percent uh is being of the salaries is being taken care of by extramural funds so that don't even hit that 18 yeah there's no question that we would have faculty that would be below that number um and maybe some substantially below and and others who are substantially higher than that number so the fact that it comes in you know at that 60 percent doesn't doesn't surprise me given the very very wide range and long-lived experience here with this this type of classification okay so what is what is the goal and what is the intent of the university regarding the extramural funding to be used and to not have as much general funds in this area of researchers and and how we're going to reduce that because yeah someone will bring in more but it's the ones that aren't bringing in any or or not even coming close to meeting this 18 and that's a low amount i'm hoping that's going to rise and so we can be on on level with our peers on the mainland when it comes to research salaries being paid for by extramural funding and not by the general fund or tuition i don't think any tuition money should be used for the in this purpose our aim senator our aim in our discussions um with uhpa is to reduce the inordinately high number of classifications of faculty and make more uniform and and simpler frankly the the types of faculty appointments that we can offer and when we do that that gives us an opportunity to very in in a very detailed fashion to articulate the expectations the duties responsibilities and expectations in the case of research oriented faculty the expectations and the salary breakdown for those positions that is the that's that's the essential nature of those ongoing conversations okay but realistically how long we're talking about before we actually get those classifications in the meantime as you hire more and more researchers and these current tenured researchers that is heavily subsidized by the general fund and by the tuition and fees because if you add tuition and fees and general funds over 80 percent of a researcher's salary comes out of that so i mean how long are we looking at i mean it's been decades before oppa is really even willing to come to the table to talk about this or that you folks are willing to you know move to this direction i mean i've been pushing for this it has been pretty long in the making um and we had these conversations you and i with with vice presidents training so as i think we've mentioned in the past that that exercise with faculty workload across all of the different departments and all of our faculty and recall we had that conversation and you had the template and some of those outcomes in our view that was the very first step that was the essential first step towards us now going with knowledge of those uh assignments and variability of those workload assignments to then go to the next step which is to better articulate our various faculty classifications and expectations we are going to get let's not rehash that for now because we don't have the time to do that but you you do have control over these letters you do have control over the percentage when somebody is hired you do have the control whether they'll be on a tenure track or non-tenure track at this point i mean to go back and change the current um tenured is very difficult i understand that but the new ones coming in you folks have total control so i'm looking at how are you folks managing that and i know it can't be done overnight but you know this is not something that just started today or yesterday so i'm looking for more and more of how are we moving in that direction and i'm pleased that it's not nine percent anymore because that's what it was when i saw that letter um that it's gone up so um you know that is a step but i'd like to make sure that we're moving more and more in that direction we are i can assure you we are we'll keep in touch as we progress and i i have to say that the budget challenges that we're facing make all of this even more exactly okay thank you members any questions regarding this or you think nope okay um [Music] let's move on to the delinquencies i know we asked for how much intuition how much of our the uh have to write off and i know you folks provided me that information also though i understand that enrollment while it's increased over the last three years the revenue and tuition remains flat or have gone down and that delinquency of tuition has gone up so um is it true my understanding that the active rate of delinquencies were about three percent but since covant it's now above five percent is that correct um calvert i think it's right at five percent and the typical pre-kobit year it would be about three percent and when you say three percent or five percent can you give us some numbers so does people understand what yeah on any on any given year for the entire university across all community colleges and campuses we're talking about tuition revenue you know on the order of magnitude of about 350 million dollars at the top side so three percent could be you know uh anywhere from a million uh by the end of the fiscal year okay now that that's a million added on to all of the collection or those that have been uh uncollectible or still being collected is that correct yeah so it would be it's what we what we would call um basically current delinquencies so you're delinquent you know you're not like immediately dealing with but after let's say 12 months the account is still delinquent so it'd be like current delinquencies um but that that gets added so during the course of the year that rate might be higher but by the end of the year it could be down to somewhere around you know a million million and a half even two and a half million dollars but considering the amount of tuition that we collect you know overall you know it's it's not a lot on any given year you know it's probably pretty enviable for any commercial business but it it builds up over time right because you can't work down these uh delinquencies um overnight and every year is a new fresh batch of um delinquent accounts that develop do members any questions about delinquencies tuition delinquencies senator kidani thank you chair it's not so much about delinquencies but it's probably would give us a better idea in your profile of your university students do you know how many uh of the tuitions you know are paid by the students themselves or how many are still being paid by parents how many are military etc um you know i guess this would give us a better idea of how many really sh you know take the burden of tuition on themselves and is not uh in a way and is not getting help or assistance from others yeah i so one i i wouldn't know that for um you know for active students what the demographic is i know that we uh we would know that on the academic side what's the nature of our students we absolutely do not track or cross walk that type of demographic data into delinquent accounts yes i could not tell you how many you know what are the statistical demographics of our delinquent um account what about by campus um you know i i could tell you how much uh each campus has in delinquent accounts but perhaps the campuses might have a better insight for more intimate familiarity about the demographics of their overall students you'd like us to ask if they can submit something like that by campus by campus but also maybe by age of students might give us some idea and also i mean if they're on financial aid normally those are a good question is paid by the financial aid right well if if a student is on financially um and it's not 100 meets their overall tuition they could still have a delinquent account if they don't pay um okay well if you could break us break it down and submit it to us um giving us some of the things that the senator kinda asked for as best as possible um that w uld be appreciated we can we can ask in the response that we provided for this um hearing we did provide a breakdown of the aging of accounts by campus but it's just it's just the um head count number it's not the amount of the movements the dollar amount okay any other questions regarding delinquencies uh really quickly i wanted to ask on the s397 what is that amount now how big is that now um and have it gone up or down calbert since we last had a report um sorry hold on let me pull up my stats on that not sure if we provided anything here and for those who don't know what the s397 it's a special fund where the university pays the salaries out of tuition and fees and the state pays for the fringe benefits of the employee uh sorry sin i'm trying to live okay we um for fiscal year of 19 which was the last year that we tried to start as the basis we had represented that for four or five years prior to that if we had reduced right the amounts of s397 um use but um for fy20 it had slightly uh we had tried to hold it to fy 19 at least what was the fy 19 i'm sorry yes sorry let me um sorry senator if you want to move to the next question while i try and pull this information up okay i'm afraid the next question might also be yours though i wanted to know about the performance-based budgeting and this president can um tell us on that is um did we meet the performance-based budgeting and is the base of four million i i know we minused out two million so is the base formula yes we that is correct um you reduced it this fiscal year um the campuses did not fully earn we are looking at you know the extent to which that was about issues not under their control but i believe we provided you a breakdown i forget if that was in our first or second response okay i don't recall getting that but again i've gotten a lot of material so i could have missed it let's see i have my three responses that we provided to you i was pretty sure it was in there somewhere oh it might have been in the first one with wham reason means briefing in january okay yeah i haven't reviewed that in a while hang on i can i can pull it up okay in the meantime calbert are you got numbers uh yes okay so here's freezing here okay so for um fy19 19. so for fy 19 we utilized uh 14.9 up sorry 14.29 million in s397 and then for 2020 we utilize 15.79 okay so 15.79 is what the amount of of salaries for the amount of um that's the amount of its amount of general funds used as fringe for tuition and fee salary employees okay so what does 15.79 calculates out how what is the employ how many number of employees and their salary a total amount that we're covering what's that number it's like 40 million 30 million um the back of the envelope is that fringe is approximately 58 8 so whatever 15 you know let's say if it's 50 15.8 million would be the equivalent of 31 million around there okay so it's like 30 million so that means that means the tuition and fees special fund paid about 31 million of um towards general fund appropriated positions and the general fund contributed 15.8 million um to cover the fringe and it went up from 19 to fy 20. so so so the just just to give you the context of the trend in 2016 it was 18.0 million in 2017 it was 16.7 million and then in 2018 it was 18.1 million and then in 2019 it was 14.3 million and then in 2020 it's 15.8 billion so the trend is overall still declining but and it's still less than what it was prior to 2016 but some of the things you have to keep in mind is that the fringe rate over the same period of time has been going up because of what's embedded in fringe right open is a big one with the passing of act 236 where the state actually has started in 2015 the state has mandated to pay um open so that that has driven a fringe rate by about 20 a year so that has added and then the overall cost of fringe for other things as well has been you know would typically increase as well cost of you know insurance a pension contribution has also increased so yeah that's going to be helpful to see a number of number of people covered under it and the salaries at some point so we can really have a better idea of um you know what that number is i know you know i'm not asking you for it right now but if you can send that and hopefully the goal of what your goal is to get that number down to and how predictable it can be so that you know we know we know beforehand during the budget deliberations so going back to president on the performance based budget president yes thank you um so we did not i think what happened is this was a verbal request i pulled up my old email from you to calvert and i think because it didn't come in in writing we did not provide you with the response in writing so you can write them you you don't have it and so 2.5 million was earned by the units community colleges earned the most a little over a million uh west oahu earned the least at about 271 000. okay okay so if you can get that to us in writing that would be great okay break it down appreciate it okay okay um really quickly i know some members have to go and we have a couple more things i just wanted to talk about quickly the karzak money out of the 44 million of the feds direct to colleges that approximately half of it goes to student financial assistance and not student financial aid is that correct um calper yeah so there can you explain to the members the difference between financial aid and financial assistance yes good yeah good good question because there's a very big distinction so we don't want anybody to think that when you hear the term financial assistance that you think of it as financial aid in the form of aid for like say you know tuition housing you know the typical conventional association to student financial aid the cares and cursa funding has specific mandates that set minimum ceiling of financial assistance that is two people of the funds have to go towards student financial assistance which is not financial aid financial assistance is you know just money to help with whatever living costs or financial needs a person may have the way the cares and cursive arrangements work the university of hawaii is really the the um means to get federal stimulus money if you will into the hands of young adults that they just happen to be students and for the university when uh you know people hear that oh the university is getting 40 million dollars in cares funds well i what i don't want is for people to think that it's 40 million dollars of money that can be spent anywhere that the state or the university wants because there are rules that are placed on it and one of them is that a minimum amount and it amounts to 50 of what's called the tranche one funds fifth 100 of that trench was i'm sorry 50 of the trunks one is mandated to go towards his financial assistance that the university served as the pass-through to get it to students and there were similar requirements in later tranches but somewhat relaxed and so a lot of this money coming into the university is actually we're actually trying to flow it directly to students and students don't have to pay the tuition or any of their balances in the school right there uh there's there are also limitations on we can you cannot hold back the monies just because a student has a delinquent house nor can we divert that student financially for assistance to pay for their delinquent clients it has to be on the student's own course so you give somebody a money and whether they want to pay you or not or use something else to pay you it's it's their choice that's part of the requirements or the limitations that are based uh placed on us with the distribution of funds and how is that calculated like on the community college level um some of this funds is more than what the tuitions that they're paying they're getting so so there's certainly no prohibition on that senator again the purpose of this funding was really to recognize that students have been faced with extraordinary challenges during this period so it's you know we'll meet students who have two parents who have been laid off from the hospitality industry and they've lost their own part-time job so that's this money really isn't just intended to pay us our tuition although that's certainly part of it right but in many cases you're not the university is not getting those funds is that accurate or not uh the funds that we give to the students that are required to go to students as calvert said we cannot hold those back to pay ourselves no i understand but i'm saying yeah on the students side are they actually paying off their debts we are seeing that because many of them want to be able to register for the next semester so they're highly motivated to pay us so that they can continue on and you know create a better lives for themselves and their families okay i just want to make it then and so the public understands like as you said kelbert that not all of the monies you're getting goes directly to the university for some of the other the federal acts also strongly encourage us to give more to students so they've established minimums but in every tranche they say and if you can give more to students please do okay any questions senator makai or anyone online senator kidani had to go to another hearing um if senator kai you had any question yes sorry was it clear if we did we talk about chinfield and the renovations there earlier no but we can right now if you want to we're moving on to the next okay why don't you ask a question or ask i'm not too sure if david matlin is on this call he is oh there you are hi i'm here first of all david congratulations uh from uh what i saw in the paper kudos to you for getting two million dollars to help defray some of the expenses for the the chiefs great news for for for the program uh but i understand that um you had talked to recently uh mayor victor reno about the idea of going to maui and i just want to make sure that the public understands that that is probably not a viable option so i just wanted to find out what the outcome if there was any from that conversation with mayor victorino yes um yeah we spoke um uh earlier today and um just kind of went through uh you know i sent him an email about what the short-term requirements were facility-wise for having a d1 um football game in 2021 it's a lot's changed since the games we played in 2001 and 2005 with expectations on instant replay and medical observers and a lot of other areas so i sent them that um and then we talked a little about the finance model of it and our our operating cost would be would be a lot higher um if we did that there's no funding mechanism for that so we kept the door open for you know playing a whole season there doesn't make sense but we looked at maybe other opportunities that we could do in the future it might just be clinics or or possibly a spring game or some opportunity to do the neighbor islands like we've done in the past but it doesn't seem to be viable at this point for 2021. okay well i i just appreciate the fact that you even looked at that uh idea if it's a it was kind of a trick play so to speak and trying to figure out like how do we salvage a decent season well not decent season but a decent venue for a glorious football season but i i guess it just kind of didn't work out but i still believe that sometime in the future we might want to take a future uh football games to to the neighbor islands although as you mentioned doing so for the next three years probably doesn't make any economic sense for the university but i appreciate you even exploring that opportunity yeah well thanks for being the bridge and uh and connecting us i think that you know that was always good to have conversations like that so appreciate that very much thank you chair welcome we also appreciate you submitting the um question to the uh stadium authority and we did get their response in writing although albeit kind of vague but still we did get that so we put that online so hopefully glenn you did get that copy of that right okay no other questions on ching field let's get our last and most favorite topic the cancer center so going back to what we learned last meeting is that the university has been given in general funds to the cancer center um a total of 5.1 million dollars and of that 5.1 million 2.8 million is in general funds and 2.2 million in tuition funding correct president i believe that's what you told us and then the governor had given 2.8 million in the contingently approved you're giving from the contingency fund 2.8 million dollars but that 2.8 goes away right in this next year good i'm seeing you nodded thank you um and then we weren't able we were trying to find out as over the years because you mentioned in the meeting that over the years that the cancer center had gotten general funds and all these other funds so you know that was the reason why i asked that question but we didn't get any numbers from you but based on the financial forecast presented to board of regents appendix one actuals for fy21 we see that the amount of tuition funds that were used for cancer center in the past since 2015 averages about maybe four hundred thousand dollars one year was as high as 755 then one low as 285 and then there's projected but the 2.2 million that just started in fy 21. according to to this is that correct you're muted president you can read but we um we view general funds and tuition and fee funds as largely fungible because of s397 so i can dig up why the mix may have changed over time um yeah if you can't show me and as i have to go to the to when it was incepted but um yeah you know not have a tuition and be special fund until the 90s but i don't think we had an rtrf until probably some time right but just on based on this this um chart that i have it just shows that you know the amounts were well under a million dollars and um and and i bring this up only because i keep hearing that the the cancer center is self-sustainable it doesn't need any more funds it you know that we managed to make up all the funds but we made it up with tuition monies and with general fund monies um so that still if we take that money away it's still a deficit i mean we use the word um we're trying not to use words like self-sufficient because um yeah but that's what's being told to us we well that's sort of like the same conversation we have about athletics but we we invest state dollars in the cancer center there's no question and we get a great return on that we believe we also invest state dollars in athletics and the math department and the institute for astronomy and i think one of the ways in which self-sufficient is used that maybe is different people have different interpretations but it means living within the allocation so if the total revenue inclusive of general funds and tuition and fees allocated by the university plus the amounts generated through other sources of balance with respect to expenses we might use the term self-sufficient but that just means living within the means as opposed to 100 generating all all of the resources that are expected okay i understand that and i only raised this because um the history that goes back with the cancer center and the deficit because of the decrease in the tobacco tax and then the fact that there was all these studies and concern that there was this deficit in the cancer center and then all of a sudden telling us that oh no you know we're self-sustaining we've we've managed to make up all that money when in fact it wasn't actually made up with some other sources it was made up with general fund monies and tuition monies and we just want transparency we want to be able to point to these things and not lead the public or lead anybody um to think that it happened any other way um it didn't miraculously happen um i did um you know at the manoa campus uh recognized that this wasn't going to balance by itself a substantial part of it is the management actions taken by randy holcomb as director and the campus also upped its investment both both statements are correct uh to bring the total picture into balance okay so um again you know i we still and i'm not sure if i'm mistaken on this but we still haven't received an updated financial plan you ga e me a financial budget but again this is a standalone budget with not getting the financial plan and i kind of looked up what entails a financial plan and certainly we have not gotten that we've got one couple years ago that i have with me that was submitted but we haven't had an updated one the bsma let's talk about this um chart or this graph that you um submitted so under revenues and this is the hola early phase clinical research center budget that you submitted thank you very much a five year startup under revenues it's um it's got four hundred thousand year one what is year one what what year are we saying year one is to begin with randy you want to take it sure oh you are probably um in uh middle of 2022 2022 okay so you're right we haven't finished construction okay no so year one in year one we expect to get four hundred thousand dollars in industry grants and contracts in 2022. so the middle of 2022 would be fiscal 2023 correct okay so we expect to get 400 and that 400 000 is arrived from on the bottom where you say year one assumptions at that industry revenue per patient is twenty thousand dollars is that how we arrive at the four hundred thousand okay so in 2021 we expect to have 20 patients in the early clinical trials uh we have 20 patients and they're each going to pay 20 000 or their their medical whatever is going to be reimbursed or we'll get 20 000 per patient is that correct am i reading this correct but it's not 2021 that'll be year one which will likely be fiscal year 23. 23. that's what i'm saying year one so that's what we expect and so in year two we're doubling that and so in 2024 we expect to get eight hundred thousand forty patients correct okay and and i raise that and then in year three it's expected to have 75 patients would be 20 25 75 patients for a total of 1.5 million dollars but in your business plan that you submitted i don't know two years ago it says the business plan is extremely conservative estimating balance operating budgets with enrollment of 60 patients per year by year four by year four so you've up you're not so conservative now because you're saying that by year three you're going to have 75 exceeding the 60 patients so you've up that also what's concerning is we were told that usually the reimbursement is anywhere from ten thousand to twenty five thousand that's what you have in here is that correct the first one that you sent us i'm sorry i signed them my internet connection went out could you repeat that question that in your business plan in addition to saying they're going to have 60 patients per year by year four and that was conservative it's also said that the reimbursement rate is usually average between 10 000 to 25 000 has that changed so these numbers these numbers in the latest plan have been updated based on input from other sanders who have initiated early phase trials programs including mount sinai in new york jefferson and philadelphia and kansas university of kansas we've used some external consultants to try to ascertain what the expectations are for enrollment based on our population here in hawaii and also what the current reimbursement is uh from uh pharmaceutical companies for these early phase uh types of trials which of course changes over time and well honestly by year five likely be significantly higher than what we've predicted for year one that we've not changed that value in the business plan okay well that's why i wanted the updated business plan because this business plan is dated october 24 2019 i've asked three times for an updated business plan have not received it so i have to go on this plan that you've given me in 2019 and in 2019 you said industry the majority of epct's are supported through the industry contracts reimbursement typically ranges from 10 000 to 25 000 per patient depending on the complexity of the trial so i don't think that that has changed that greatly so in you have used though 20 000 so you've taken the high end of the typical ranges from 10 to 25 000 and you've went ahead and upped your number of patients going forward and to make the numbers look good in my estimation um so i you know i just raised that because without your business plan and without your reasoning it's really difficult to determine whether these numbers are realistic numbers also you have redacted out the hcc clinical partners so i'm not sure why you redacted that out because in this business plan you tell us what it is so i don't know what happened from 2019 to now that all of a sudden that is what did you say here confidential numbers not currently for public distribution so it wasn't confidential when you gave us this business plan so i don't know can you explain why that's redacted out well the uh the clinical partners through a 401 c 3 organization and we didn't feel that we could include these specific numbers without going back to each of the members and getting their approval though include the overall number for that category so that you could see what the expectations were okay but you've only i only talked about three clinical partners so it's not as if you had to go back to 100 people to get their approval one you know that this is important because if there's any kind of shortfall that's going to end up coming back to us and that you still use general funds and tuition funds so for the cancer center so we want to make sure that these numbers are reliable numbers that you're giving in this plan so right you know i can see redacting out certain things but the fact that you've already told us that the business plan assumes involvement of uhcc queen's health system and hawaii pacific health as principal partners that's no secret i mean there's not too many partners that we have in hawaii to begin with in issuing overall investments investments by uhcc will be 2.5 million over five years each of the two principal clinical partners will also invest 2.5 million over five years either directly or through hawaii cancer consortium so that's in black and white here so i'm not sure when i keep asking have you have you um firmed up these these numbers or firmed up these partners you know you've you've kind of skirt the issue and then you give me this that's redacted so i don't know what why or what what we're trying to hide here if we're trying to hide anything why isn't it transparent well it's now transparent as you've read off those numbers from the previous submission and that equals exactly the composite number that's in the business plan that we presented so why did you guys feel the need to redact it out president um in general we try not to show those kinds of numbers from you know private partners um it's not protected by law i i didn't realize we had given them you know and made them public previously through you okay well i mean yeah i'm surprised that you guys i mean it's just that things aren't consistent and that's why when you say you're perplexed why we're being asking for details is because it you know it's not consistent and sometimes it doesn't match up and we're concerned and so you know that's why we asked we have these hearings okay going on so under assumptions there is the rtrf rate right that's the research training and revolving fund correct that's the reimbursement that's the monies that come from the grants right the fees from the grants am i correct rtrf is the the indirect costs generated through grants right and then that's the share that the university gets correct okay and usually that rate is about um 40 for the university for federal funds and 24 state grants is that correct uh it these are contracts they're going to be at about 34 okay so over here under assumptions under patients enrolled per year 20 it says 15 50 15 of what what is that i'm not sure what that number is did you repeat that question please senator okay on the bottom where you have assumptions has industry revenue per patient that we talked about 20 000 per year which i thought is high since it's the average of 10 to 25 000 is the industry standard number of patient enrolled per year is 20 under that you have the rtrf rate 15 under year one so what is that 15 of what or what is that well uh the rtrf rate of for the university uh is 34 i believe for contracts by soliciting correct me if that's incorrect but not all of that comes back to the individual units only about half of it typically so uh that's why we used 15 seconds so you're saying that the clinical trials is going to generate 15 of the 34 of all research grants that goes to university 15 of the overall contract amount would come back to the individual aspects of the indirect cost kept by the university for various uh activities uh required by the office of research services and other at money that comes back to the unit would get reinvested into this program okay we say unit does it go back to the cancer center it goes back to the clinical trials well it comes back to the cancer center that's the unit but it will be reinvested back into this program okay so you can see that um up above chair if you look at say the 400 the rtrf comes back in the following year and so that's the assumption of 15 and that's why it starts in the second year or fy24 the sixty thousand is fifteen percent of the four hundred thousand and so forth the one hundred twenty thousand but by president i was just told that that twenty thousand is in patient industry revenue per patient so it's not a grant it's a revenue so how do you get the rftf honor on the reimbursements from the for each patient this is not clinical billing revenue this is contracts with pharmaceutical companies because these patients are all on a clinical trial it's not billing through insurance companies it's a contract the contract comes with indirect costs per university guidelines okay so the 20 000 per patient is in contracts and of that contracts that the university will take 34 percent that's well 34 is added on to that contract what's listed are the direct costs and then there's the 34 indirect cost okay wait a minute so if there's twenty thousand dollars then it's more if you're going to take off thirty four percent and then give you fifteen percent if we received twenty thousand dollars with an indirect cost rate of 34 then there would be an extra 6 800 that came in to the university for that 20 000 of the ethical 800 approximately half of it will come back to cancer center which is three thousand four hundred dollars let's see tr would come back to our unit the cancer center that would then be reinvested into the program so if we only had one patient enrolled the cancer center by year two because that money won't come back until the next year would have an extra three thousand four hundred dollars okay so can you update this with make it give us us a plan president so we we can understand what this is and just graph with numbers on it and more like a business plan and update this so we get a better understanding so i don't want to i don't want to assume the wrong things but if you folks aren't going to clarify it then that's what you're forcing us to do to have that okay we can provide more explanation to you okay i would appreciate that and then i also want to know does this include the doctors because these patients are going to have to have physicians doctors which the cancer center does not have and these specialty doctors i know charge a lot and they're going to be fees associated with that there's also going to be fees from x-rays and services which we don't do it's going to be done by the clinical partners or the hospitals and i'm not sure if they're going to share any of those fees with us i doubt that so that should all be addressed in the business plan that i hope that you will provide to us um and then i think we can explain that in the context of the personnel and the operational yeah because you mentioned person now but you know don't you don't tell me if there's just staff or this includes the doctors because i understand the doctors that will be the specialty doctors that are being paid for and they have to make money not just on this client but all other clients okay that's one two is um you say that you're using the number of patients that eligible in hawaii 100 to 150 patients that would be benefit by the clinical early clinical trials but benefiting and being eligible and likely to be part of the program is not been defined so that's another thing that i think needs to be part of this plan because just because they might benefit for they might not be eligible they might not want to participate those are issues that i think should be addressed as well [Music] yes i know i'm looking at it okay so i think that covers all that so if we can address that i would appreciate it and that we have a better understanding of you know these numbers and how realistic they are because when you say year one is fy23 that's right around the corner oh i know the last one is construction cost is the construction for is the projection now over budget or is it on budget um we're on budget at the moment and we have contingencies within the budget so um we have not uh gotten the fine sent it out for final bids so i can't tell you the absolute what the bids are we have been working with our rim architect uh consultants and they've been working with the national institutes of health and uh hopefully those will go out for bid uh within the next uh few weeks and we'll have a much better idea after we get the bids back okay so the project's not delayed is the project delayed the project got delayed about a month because the nih changed its software and was unable to uh to review things for a month so they had some down time but uh otherwise we're on turkey okay and then um can you submit to then what is the contingency amount that is built into the plan and then what happens if the cigarette tax special fund is depleted um what happens to the cancer center and the overall operations and where would the money come if in fact the tobacco tax cigarettes tax fund is in fact rated or depleted or diverted so and i'm rushing through it because we will be cut off exactly at 4 30. i've got two minutes so uh i'm not trying to you know not give you an opportunity to respond yeah so we can always come back but if you can submit those information um then i'll see whether or not we need to come back if it's thorough enough we may not have to come back into another meeting okay and i'm guessing that between your staff and our staff people have been taking notes on all the things you've asked for yes i have some good note takers uh here absolutely so with that i want to thank all of you folks for being available and for um being able to answer some of these questions and clarify some of these things that we've asked for so thank you very much have a good evening we are adjourned you