How do i industry sign banking iowa form mobile
everyone this is Scott King over at Imperial and I'm joined with my favorite colleague JT Keating and we're going to go through really what our global threat intelligence tells us and we'd like to inform you of what we see across enterprise customers and a little bit of data about vulnerabilities and mobile operating system updates that we've seen over the last quarter and updates over the last five months so we've got a lot of questions and around that this session is obviously being recorded so if you're listening and viewing today you can share with your colleagues we'll send out the recording tomorrow so so thanks JT for joining me and thanks everyone for joining if you do have a question we're gonna have this session go for about 30 minutes type in your question in the Q&A window and we'll try to get those during this time right so we're going to shoot for 30 minutes so if you have a question just type it in immediately and we'll either answer it right away or save it to the end okay but you know really I think the the question that everyone has to begin with are are there really mobile threats so there's there's lots of data out there that that we look at here's some data 24 percent of organizations suffered a mobile security breach and this is user generated data so these are security individuals from LinkedIn's information and security group that that stated yes you know we did see alarmingly 43% were unsure because if you don't have a sensor on your mobile device you know you're being attacked right JT yeah I know that's exactly right and I think the interesting thing about this that is you know we've been doing this now for a while and these numbers keep keep trending in what I consider to be the right direction you know we did this a while back and less than 20 percent said that they knew that they had a mobile breach of some sort and over 50 percent said they they had no idea so now because there are some instrumentation that has been in here people are starting to be able to see the reality of the situation and as we no more be talking about through throughout the rest of this we can categorically state that everybody using our software has detected some threats so we'll get into that and that actually as you know Scott is going to form the basis of some of that's one of the things that we're doing a little bit differently in this threat report that we've done in some of the others is we thought it'd be very helpful for you folks to actually hear real real-world you know direct stories in addition to the data so we're going to be running through some of that that all start to paint some of this as we go forward yeah it's a good point you know as we as we use our mobile devices more and more I mean really my mobile device is my primary computing device it is my most personal device and does everything about me and you know we see here that you know desktop usage obviously declining mobile is going up you know you really don't know what you don't know until you look for it like you said a hundred percent of our customers actually see threats right right and I think the thing that's hidden behind this is what percentage of these times even if it is a corporate owned device is that outside of the corporate network connecting to other Wi-Fi networks and in the like so a significant chunk at the time of that light blue line is spent outside of the walls we've been spending billions of dollars protecting for years yeah a whole lot more budget and resources is invested in the gray line than the blue line right okay and so here's kind of a visual JT that we've been showing everybody on just you know where are the operating system market share where does it exist today we've we've taken this data from from multiple sources and it clearly shows that you know just Android by itself is bigger than bigger than Windows as of March of 2017 yeah that was the tipping point and we we talked about it by the way and for those of you folks in the financial services sector we have a whole white paper on mobile banking and we talk about the fact that it wasn't March 17th at the tipping point occurred to your point about Android specifically being the market share leader but then as as I know because you and I've looked at the slides we look at the next one when you combine Android and iOS together the lines are of course you know clearly showing the trend line going the opposite I mean going the the direction where mobile is the dominant platform reinforcing what you were saying earlier right I mean it's only gonna get bigger right I mean it's gonna continue to you know spread apart like we're seeing mobile obviously you know it will reach a point where that you can't get any more mobile devices but the desktop will continue to decline correct correct and I think as we move to this next slide you know the reality is Windows has been around a lot longer so you've got these two operating systems and you know Android it seems to me when it comes to the the CDE process the folks that are out there looking for them it has a little bit more of a maturity than an apple but we saw some really interesting trends in the in the fourth quarter right I mean here's the here's the aggregate data which basically shows that the and for those of you folks that are super familiar with the CDE score 7 plus is considered high severity 106 is more of a normal boner ability maybe not as critical and two things are happening here Scott you know one is 2017 there were more vulnerabilities than 15 and 16 combined and you can clearly see that 15 and 16 dominated all the years prior so the trend line is definitely going the the wrong direction in some cases the right of direction if you're saying well at least we're recognizing where these vulnerabilities are so we can fix them then I think the the fact that there's a significant percentage that are 7 plus is another you know noteworthy thing yeah I mean that's the scary part right if you have a score 7 plus that is a high severity and then if you are not a white hat researcher you know you may be at a decision point where you're gonna sell that for a million dollars a million and a half dollars it's kind of the go and market rate for you know in iOS vulnerabilities so so clearly they're even more than this that are undocumented right which is why you see you know all the updates so that's kind of a scary scenario if if there are more vulnerabilities in an operating system that we spend more time on that you know something's going to happen yeah and I think I mean even as you know we start looking to you know the next few slides I think the good news of all this is it shows a maturation of a market right the fact that these things are being reported and then you know patches being created shows that it shows the maturity right I mean we all know that I was talking with a client yesterday yeah you know large federal service federal agency and we were talking about the fact that Microsoft moved to Patch Tuesday years ago because the IT teams etc were just getting annoyed they couldn't they couldn't QA tests and patch each patch that was coming out with such great frequency that finally they just kind of said uncle you know give it to me once a month so I can test all of those put together so everyone knows Patch Tuesday right well if you look at the you know Android again being a little bit further ahead on some of this curve Android is now a monthly update you know so you know I'll do the Android side I'll let you have the fun with the punchline on iOS but you know in this period of time on this chart right here for Android you know Android had five updates during that period of time covering I think it was like I heard with 1670 CDs and then why don't you talked about Apple which to me is interesting because they haven't caught up to that monthly that monthly cadence but the numbers would indicate they're gonna get there pretty quick well yeah I think the I mean Apple is a little bit different the you know since they own the ecosystem they can push these out whenever they want and you know this five month time period only it almost seemed like panic mode because there were ten different updates with 72 different CVEs you know varying on severity some of the Z labs guys actually even you know provided some really cool research in forced some updates on xi dot 2.5 I'm ready but yeah Apple updated iOS 10 times in in five months so so that is you know one we've seen that increase you know and they're they're adding features all the time we don't really know how big that platform is right it's facial recognition there's payments there's all types of stuff being added into there so it's a it's an interesting proposition but you know we do see those devices get updated a little bit quicker than Android but not by much right right but I do think the key word and what you're talking about it there is Apple is in fact a computing platform iOS is a computing platform and and it is on some very valuable devices that as we talked about earlier are increasing increasing increasing in terms of total counts as well as share therefore they are their targets yeah and and so as a computing platform you're going to have vulnerabilities no matter what you're doing it's a matter of how do you address them and how quickly can you can you get it patched yeah and there's you know there's big business being done on those platforms right I think it was in it was inside this time period I'm not sure December or January when JPMorgan Chase had their institutional traders were actually putting 400 million dollar trades through the mobile app so that is a that's a big chunk of money that's a good target so speaking of targets these are some of the vulnerabilities and malware that were identified in 2017 as we can see the you know the list of device exploits network attack in in malware it's it's not going to stop right so if we move to this platform obviously attackers and cyber criminals are going to move to that platform as well because they're looking for the path of least resistance right and I think something else to to note and I think this is a go-to place as any before we start diving into the you know some specific customer case studies you know our research has shown and it's borne out many many times that especially in mobile because of the fact that from the the containerization of mobile apps cannot directly jack with other apps right jack is a very technical security term yeah you know so I think there's other variations that in different languages but we get the idea the ultimate objective in order to remain persistent which is what if somebody's going to take the time to compromise the device especially in enterprise targeted attacks you need to get to the device and what we see significantly time after time again are Network attacks as a means to deliver or some form of elevation of villages or device exploits the malicious apps are predominantly put on there even though they too can deliver exploits they are predominantly on there for fraud of some sort that is whether it's add fraud whether it's in terms of direct banking fraud the majority of them that's that's what they're designed to do as we talked about a lot of times if I'm going to be targeting a particular bank for instance I'm probably not going to drop an app in the App Store and pray that somebody downloads it I'm going to do something far more efficient and one thing I think it's really talking to you a folk the Marine Corps military intelligence we need to continue to realize that the guys that are behind any of the attacks have a business and and they're pretty good at their business in their very efficient debt they they're not going to do something that's just kind of random right they got metrics and everything just like the rest of us yeah and you know sometimes you know it's a good point your fraudulent activity is is a good point because a lot of times the fraudulent active isn't against the user but it's against the platform like we saw with the clicking bought apps basically just you know fraudulently painting revenue from the ad networks and then you know you mentioned the Marine Corps we had the straw of a heat map coming out some months ago and then that caused a flurry of activity that like hey you know our soldiers are being monitored and we don't even know about it right so that was kind of a scary a little bit further now we'll talk about another one of the soldiers being monitored yeah exactly all right so so let's talk about device exploits so so here JT we have a devil elevation of privileges easy for you to say yeah yeah it's a relevation of an elevation privileges being an installer app what what happened here yeah so I think one of the important things to point out in each one of these studies that we're gonna roll through these are real world customers of Siberians you'll also notice that up on the right were kind of identifying whether it was an iOS or whether it's an Android and what are the main things that has become is becoming increasingly common and so we have a few case studies here is on iOS while malware is significantly less which we're going to get to sorry to ruin the story for people in advance but on iOS and Android that's because they're different that's partially because Apple has done a great job in the vetting of what can get in the App Store they also don't have within the iOS ecosystem itself third-party app stores right but as this study will actually show there are sources and ways to get to that but what they what the there's a thing called iOS profiles and what iOS profiles are historically is is for mDM's VPNs things on those lines that are going to get us some special privileges on the device well they're not as well monitored as the app store is and so for folks going after how do I get on iOS and how do I actually compromise the device which as I mentioned earlier that's the goal is to be persistent the bad guys can use profiles as well to get super privileges in this particular case one of our one of our customers had a consultant was down in Costa Rica he downloaded from a third-party app store basically he made Phyllis yes he favored him it was a new game app and as a part of that there was an installer for the game that he was supposed to add well when he went to install the installer of course that asks some questions and basically established a new profile and there was a thing called Houdini that was part of that profile or had the capabilities enabled by the profile that could actually mount it and start doing readwrite on the system the good news for these guys we were on there so we stopped the malicious profile that was put on there and detected the adder notified the admin and they stopped the threat so in this particular case was no evasion of privileges via an installer app we'll come back to another one of this on a different customer in a minute but sticking with this same customer going to the next example you know it's interesting a hundred percent of our customers have detected some form of mobile attack right I can almost equally confidently say almost 100 percent of our customers have detected threats that were not part of their original business case right the this particular customer in the original business case was looking for things like what we just discovered and just went through in the last slide but that wasn't the first thing we found the first thing we found was actually a not a malicious profile in terms of original intent what I still think it is but in this case it was a unmanaged profile was a profile that was actually saying I guess in some cases similar to the installer app know that I'm really thinking about it in this case the consultants didn't like the fact that that they you know we're on lockdown corporate network so they started talking to each other and they discovered a free VPN or that free VPN installed the profile and as a part of that profile was actually decrypting traffic had the ability to decrypt traffic so that all of the traffic would have been in plain text anyway the exact opposite of what you want from a VPN right again we were able to detect that unmanaged profile that it did
't meet the criteria of our customer and we are able to have it deleted and detected off of all the devices I mean that's pretty scary right I mean a private network you assume that it's your privacy where in this case they were actually circumventing the security policies and causing themselves their company and their climate harm just so they could you know do whatever they needed to do on their mobile device outside of the corporate network exactly I mean it's pretty much the worst case scenario yeah pretty much it's complete self-inflicted injury which as we go to the next one again I'm sorry I thought we had the we had another banking customer that had one similar as well that was again an installed app so we'll probably get to that later yeah we had that later but right here we've got the you know really what do we see the device risks right so we talked about the profiles they're very dangerous I mean they're not as prevalent as other risks that we see in the device Network JT but you know like you said self-inflicted I like that he said that because it is you know the user is really a security problem if they don't really understand all the technical specifications of what's going back and forth you know they could be causing themselves harm and not even knowing it and the company or the mobile team they're not looking for that type of thing right they're looking for rooted or jailbroken devices none of those devices were rooted or jailbroken so they're not going to show up on that report but in terms of risky configurations of what users do you know a low percentage vulnerable devices is still you know almost half you know these devices just aren't being updated in I'm using the iOS data here the Android data is actually in the 67% so iOS devices nearly half of them aren't updated with the last two patches from women ran this data right and what's interesting about that is in my mind there's multiple things that are interesting about it the first thing is again separating risk from active threat sometimes right the first thing is am i exposing my company to undue risk you know in to your point on iOS in particular you know like forty seven percent or whatever was was not on the current version well the current version was actually put in place to solve some pretty important things like crack inspector and some of the ones that we're gonna we're going to talk about a little bit but then also jail breaks a bunch of jail breaks that were available so so by not updating these people are leaving themselves exposed I mean we talk a lot about and again conversation with the federal customer yesterday the single biggest security risk is and probably always will be a carbon-based life form it's a human being right and we we believe that from the security industry for years and years and years and that was when we centrally managed patching we centrally managed the administration of antivirus and the like that's not the case here users still have to be the ones to decide if they're going to upgrade and and like I said this is 46% you shift over to the Iowa or the Android inside of the world like 75% are on marshmallow which is version six less than 2% are on Oreo which is version eight right yeah we know and we know that the ecosystem the reason we created the superior Hansen Alliance which is given run by Rd labs team is to help facilitate driving that process through the Android side of the world more effectively but it's still it's still here for sure right yeah exactly so you mentioned meltdown and inspector what what are these they basically were vulnerabilities and I think it's always important we talk about these vulnerabilities vulnerabilities come out they hopefully our responsibilities close we're going to discover when something like our Z labs guys are excellent to do it in this and they will responsibly disclose these to the folks that actually can fix it then the patches come out and then we have to go and apply the patches so specter and meltdown for all intensive purposes across most platforms now have been handled by patches but there's going to be others coming down the pipe as we keep going right but the primary thing between the two of them is that it they basically enabled not just in mobile this was on almost any platform because it was a chipset thing across the board it enabled to oversimplify both of them apps or processes to be able to look at what was running in memory of other apps and processes so that they could steal data and things on those lines they've been fixed for the most part by by both of the iOS Ian Android at this point in time but there are some real questions about whether the fixes were going to severely impact performance we've seen kind of a mixed bag as to whether that's actually occurred okay yeah the iOS update I believe was December Android finished those updates in January so update your devices everybody for suspect you're in meltdown yeah please don't be the stats we were just talking about you know two percent and 46 percent so you know I'm I'm safe I use iOS except we have Network attacks and those don't care what platform you're using you know what what exactly is this network attack what did what do we find at this customer yeah so in this particular case a rogue access point is is basically a fake network that gets put up either within an existing network or or basically mimicking or emulating one of those networks I mean one of the things for all the smarts that from a security standpoint that have occurred in the mobile platforms one of the that's still pretty amazing is once you've connected to a network unless you've really gone out a way to change this every time your phone meets a new Wi-Fi they will go through their list of hey are you you know XYZ corporate hey are you XYZ corporate guest hey are you and all it takes from a rogue access point is to say well yes I am in this particular case it was a banking institution that we have it's a customer of ours and they hacker set up rogue access points the devices actually found that and said hey are you X Y Z bank and it said well yes I am and our solution was able to detect that no that's not the case and make sure that all of those devices were disconnected from that network well we don't know of course it is what could have happened because like I said Network attacks are the primary ability to deliver an exploit clearly there would have been surveillance to be able to see what you know where the person was going what they were typing but then the other thing we don't know is we don't know what other devices that rogue access point was able to successfully infiltrate we can only talk about the fact that our stopped it yeah I mean this is a scary proposition right because you know we talked earlier about the path of least resistance I mean this really is a very easy path right because all those devices are emitting the network names I just have to rename my pineapple and you know and I'm gonna capture this so so very dangerous yeah and what it is too is a lot of it is surveillance I mean you know they they can surveillance in terms of do I have somebody that I want to actually exploit and then also surveillance back to the thing we were just talking about okay what platform is this person on and how what version of the platform are they on so ok say all right well this guy happens to be on version 10.8 of iOS but then they say all right well you know I've got these exploits in reserve that I know can attack that particular platform so which goes into this conversation here yeah the you know what we do for the rogue access points is we look at the ones nearby and the ones where the devices actually connect and I mean we see these connections all the time every quarter we see rogue access points and like you said it's a very targeted attack it's very scary we are looking at users connecting to unsecured Wi-Fi so these are just wi-fi's that don't have password protection it's not an attack it's not the greatest idea so we do actually alert the security in the mobility teams that the 30 users are actually you know using these unsecured Wi-Fi but but minim attacks JT we saw more of them this quarter than we did last quarter actually if it went up 15 percent across the the device inventory I mean these you know who knows where that will trend but you know a minima tech is is this a scary proposition you know my my device was attacked at at the airport right but I had zits and it stops so to other users they don't know that this is happening to them yeah no I think that's that's completely correct and I think this is a good place to to make a macro observation as well we are presenting the global threat data from millions of devices around the world right billions of data points millions of devices around the world but our our primary job is protecting our customers right so so what's what our data is not completely unvarnished this is our data from our customer base right so if I may separate out risks from threats risks from active threats right one of the things we've seen you know Scott you know we're talking about this is our customer base is actually we think ahead of the curve in terms of lowering some of the risks so you know for instance if you if you talk about the device vulnerabilities even though you know 75% are still on marshmallow on Android and 46% are on an outdated one from iOS when you put the two together it's actually trending the right way it's trending towards our customers are actually patching at a rate that that is exceeding the industry so they are limiting or lowering their risks then you turn to the active threat part in the in the active threat indicators for the most part are kind of going up right like in this particular case going up by 15% I think that's an indication of a combination of things one of which is there were actually detecting these we don't yet know are these things really trending up you're becoming more and more more popular or are they out there already today and we're detecting them at a greater clip yeah I mean I mean we won't know right but I mean you bring up a an important point that this data is from some of the most security-conscious customers and companies in the world so so they're gonna be the leaders in this and and you know we can only see these numbers change over time I would I would assume that the network attacks you know then they may go up as customers come on and then and then go down as you know their security practices are actually mature see I think I think my gut you and I can have a side bet on this my gut is they're going to continue going up because these are outside of the control of the customers right customers will wander in they'll attempt it will stop it you know but others won't and it's such an easy way of being able to target yeah all right no it is an easy way not an easy way is as a fake app so what happened here with this fake BBC app yeah so so the one of the main things is on the Android side of the world there is more of a malware issue than there is on the iOS as we talked about iOS it's a lot of configuration profiles one of the things that we had bailed last year is something that have been trained in the cloud for two years beforehand we specialized machine learning based detection on device that's that's what we do we had done we started with device compromises as the primary thing because we knew that that was what mattered and we needed to be able to capture that did we move to network last last September we announced z-9 which is our machine learning engine z9 for malware and what it does is actually on device can't detect new attacks that have never been seen before and Android to start off with and we're training on the iOS because there's a different thing with how you get the apps off of of iOS in this particular case an employee downloaded a fake BBC app this particular app was specifically designed to as we broke it down to do ad fraud that's what there was but it had the capability of framework to be able to deliver a lot of other stuff because we detected immediately we notified on customer you know the end user deleted it and everything was off to the races we have a machine learning white paper that if anybody's interested we can provide to them that actually talks about our approach to machine learning at the end of it there's a couple tests that people can use to determine whether or not solutions actually have machine learning backing them up one of those things is the law of large numbers if you look at somebody and if they're posting up blogs on the fact that they've discovered an a you know malicious app that has 10 million 20 million 15 million downloads including us you know last year you know before we did this machine learning is obviously not working right if you have millions of endpoints as you claimed and if you have machine learning you shouldn't detect something when it has millions and millions of downloads the thing that BBC app was thousands of downloads not millions so you just had to wait for as imperium customer to grab exactly yeah yeah yeah and one of things I love about our z94 mobile malware now is we're providing we're providing apps malicious apps to the ecosystem quicker than ever buddy else so we've given them to Google we've given them to Facebook you mentioned the clicking bot we've given him five hours total so we're actually feeding the industry which means a lot to us right right you know I I talked to the labs guys on how that machine learning works for apps it's just incredible at how much data they can crunch immediately right but then then we have Bank BA I mean that was a little different animal can you walk us through quickly we've got Bank ba and then I think we've got the fake whatsapp yeah so bank bot and what are the differences between Android and iOS even though in either one of them can apps jack with other apps again back to the technical term on Android apps can in fact get an inventory of the other apps that are on the device similar to the iOS profile example it is amazing how many times people will download something of value in this case being utility apps that a bunch of utility acts just like the guy was installing something of value the Installer app for the game on the example we did earlier in this case they would install utility it would actually look across that all the apps that are on the device and see if any of those happen to be a mobile banking app when it was actually installed similar to the iOS profile thing when the people click through like we always do and you know security people don't but users do yes yes yes I want this thing to be able to work yes yes what it did is it gave it the privileges to be able to it was now elevated privileges again right so it looks at these other apps once the person in the meantime it will send out and say hey can you hit me the template for XYZ Bank right wait the minute the person goes to do it it will put the overlay on top user put in their user ID and password what he used to do was used to then disappear and you would say you know your password was incorrect so you'd injured again thinking maybe if that fingered it or something now we're actually seeing where it's actually it will log the user in which seems like a very nice thing for it to do but obviously there's benefits to it one the user doesn't notice anything different in two they just validated that the user ID and password combination is accurate which is good for their business model like we said they're trying to be as efficient as humanly possible yeah that's that's pretty scary stuff and then whatsapp is popular but you know there was a fake one right so this is another fraudulent activity but what happened with fake what's out oh oh it's exactly what you're talking about you know the fact that it was in fact they fake app the key to this one for us is that it was there was a couple keys to it but again it reinforces the ability of being able to get to these apps very quickly and determine what's they're using z94 mobile malware but the other part is as I've mentioned here there was the ad part but then it also had this thing in there that wasn't so fake which is
alled cold jewel lines which is again another piece of malware that was installed this one again happened to be kind of ad focused but it could have been used to deliver anything else right yeah the culture Alliance has multiple uses right so you know hopefully they're stealing from some unknown source but you don't want to really you know steal from the user you know like for Bank bah you know a lot of the banks they're not going to reimburse you if you know if your account gets cleaned out in you know you surrendered your user credentials eighty percent of the time the bank does not actually reimburse you yeah it depends like here the mistakes it's great point though here in the States FDIC you know you got some of that sort of stuff banks will also as a matter of policy sometimes say I'm going to make you whole because I want to keep you confident at my mobile banking but the other thing is it is a framework just like the PVC is a framework like we mentioned in our report started off where there were 20 banks that were in Bank bot now there's you know at the end of the earth 150 now all of our indications say it's closer to 400 so all you have to keep doing is dropping new ones in and they can just keep rolling so these ones are these ones are kind of interesting in I take we mentioned earlier the whole thing about how our phones will basically say hey are you XYZ you know Wi-Fi like well yes I am these are two examples from the fourth quarter period of time one is the one on the left where Russia was actually caught and they basically have bolted you know rugged access point the pineapple for all intents purposes and get on Amazon onto drones and flew the drones around a NATO headquarters NATO base in Poland and 4,000 soldiers said hey are you NATO and the drone said why yes I am and their phones were compromised microphones were being able to be turned on troop movements were going and the only reason they got caught because at the time they didn't have a solution like ours on it the only reason they got caught if they got a little bit cocky and they started sending fake orders and when they started sending fake orders then I'll send people like wait a minute I didn't say that what are you talking about had they just remained quiet they could be going to this day who knows how many right yeah that's pretty scary and this goes back to you know they're basically just doing surveillance if I know troop movements and troop numbers and locations and things like this you know I'm gaining a tactical advantage and you're giving me the data right right exactly and then on the on the right the Lazarus group which is most you know famous for the Sony hack after Sony put out the the interview they also are believed to be behind wanna cry the ransomware from last year are now doing Android based malware we have other examples as well that happened over the last you know over the last few months you know before that general Kelly's phone was known to be compromised maybe about a month ago the the folks in Britain accused Iran of hacking the phones of their spies it's it's rampant yeah incredible thank you so much JT do we have any questions for today we've had some questions come in are there any appropriate that we can read aloud yeah the first one said that they they said you have incredible radio voice that was more the statement so first question was is there a consumers imperium and the answer to that is not directly one of the things that's imperium has decided to do is we are the enterprise guys we were set out from the very beginning to prevent device exploits and network attacks that would actually compromise an enterprise but this Imperium is very very good at two things we're very good at zero day detection of mobile attacks across DNA device Network and apps and we're very very good at putting our stuff and other people's stuff so we're being resold by some of the biggest mobile operators in the world some of which have consumer offerings Softbank for instance in Japan we also are empowering the consumer iOS version for guys like McAfee so you can get Imperium in consumer offerings like like I said for instance McAfee or from some mobile operators but as a matter of course we don't do it directly as imperium and then the next question I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to I'm not sure I'm gonna be answering it correctly in terms of understanding it but the question was well something like a Mac clone with a rogue access point bypassed the detection so I'm not sure if your if the person asking the question is referring to what if somebody was using a Mac clone right now we're not on Mac clones we are on iOS Android we've done Windows 10 so you know what we might do we have we have your name what I might do is just shoot you an email and make sure that I'm answering the question you're actually asking but the the detection that is actually on the devices ourselves are all it would detect it every single time so apologize that didn't really fully understand the question yeah maybe maybe we can get to that later any other questions well thank you everyone for joining JT and I we have fun doing this we'll see you guys next quarter and we'll send out the links recording slides tomorrow to everyone that registered and everybody have a great day thanks JT thank you very much appreciate it as always
