Sign Michigan Travel Agency Agreement Myself

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and that is how that worked it's actually quite fascinating to watch and again you go out of the Oakland County site to see how they do it and show up or if you have clients so with a client yes did you say it is just cash sales yeah so it is a cash sale you have to have certified funds ready and there's actually this really harsh penalty if you did and you fail to consummate the transaction you're blackballed forever basically your bottom so there are people who've done it they get caught up in the moment they don't have the financial means of doing it and then it comes to they no longer can bid in so every county does this differently this is a live scenario Oh Wayne does a online related auction as well as some of them go to third parties like auction dot-com who you may have seen home those are handled but it's different so you know there's not the same everywhere but I just wanted to give you a feel these are properties now being sold some of your clients may have attended the auction and have bought a personal property and all of a sudden a year later two years later five years later they're asking you to assist them in selling it and we're going to talk a little bit about that who here has been to an option or okay so quite a few of you have seen or experienced who here has had a client who has ever had a tax reverted property that has been asked has asked you to sell it okay a few and I'm sure that some of you have seen mortgage foreclosed properties right you you've been involved in properties after a mortgage foreclosure okay so we're going to go back to some of the basics for a moment Steve when he introduced me talked about a quitclaim deed and I'm going to go back to some of your basic understanding of deeds to lay some foundation about what's going on here with these perverted properties a deed is a conveyance it is a conveyance from a Grand Tour or Grand Tours to grantee or grantees right what does that it is a conveyance from one to the next with a quitclaim deed there are no warranties right we all know that we've all learned that we went through your programs and their schools it is a conveyance without any warranties it's like an as is transaction with a warranty deed it is this innocent conveyance also but there are additional warranties protections that are involved in a conveyance so when we talk about a conveyance we're talking about a deed and when we talk about title the concept of title we're talking about a collection of these documents a collection of Deeds with an automobile many of you if you own an automobile you get a certificate of registration it's your title if I took my car and I wanted to give it to see or sell it to Steve I actually signed my registration handed to him he had me money he would go to the Secretary of State and a new owner is recorder he doesn't work that way with land and with real estate with landed real estate it is the collection of the deeds that we call the chain of title so if with a car I'm actually handing a piece of paper to Steve he takes that and sells it remaining your name to Louise and then Louisa gives it to his uncle and so on and so forth that document gets passed along with real estate it is the collection of deeds that are recorded in a particular order we call that the chain that dictates ownership does this sound familiar to everyone your the concepts good good foundational now when we use the concept of a chain there are times the chain is broken we're going to talk about this as it relates to this quiet title concept as well as the tax reversion concept the chain here we have owner a giving the B Cee and so on and so forth the chain of title this if you under at the bottom of this chain you're thrilled you own it there's no break in the chain it's a clean conveyance through time often that chain is broken now in my office there is a large document it was its frame that are obviously a historic deed and you may be familiar with similar to what Steve and I just were talking about with the registration of an automobile it used to be that you would actually sign the deed and would go to the next person that process doesn't exist we have this depository this place in each county called the Register of Deeds in which these deeds all get recorded and they're in a chain and if any of you have ever been down there you can actually go and look from person to person to see if the chain is in good order in good health but often it's a problem there may be a gap in the chain of title a missing deed let's break that down common examples of when we see missing deeds in the chain of title often dad owns the property I'm going to use a paternal side don't think I'm sexist just for illustration purposes dad owns a property and then he dies 20 years later son has been living in the property and then he comes to you and says I'm ready to sell and you pull title and it's in dead a common scenario we see this daily in our office with our probate related work people don't realize dad died they think dad died in a will the will said the son got it or dad died and he only had one child the son so they think often mistakenly that they own it they're the rightful heir they own it but of course there's a process to get it from dad to son probate write a deed through probate called a fiduciary D another example of a gap in the chain of title that we see very often it's the land contract scenario Louise is selling the property on land contract to me Darrin and it's a ten year land contract five hundred dollars a month every month on the 1st of every month I give my five hundred dollars to Louise and ten years go by and I say I did it I made my final payment I own a property that I've been paying $500 a month for ten years I don't remember that I have to then go get a deed in fulfillment of the land contract from Louise I need a deed to fulfill the manager to prove that I made my final payment to Louise and Louise has given me a deed in conformity with that land contract or in fulfillment with the land contract now some of you may know that often deeds are held in escrow they're held at the type of company at the beginning of a land contract upon the final payment maybe the lease is dead long gone whatever may be but if the deed is held at the title company in escrow I would conduct the title company say prove that I made my final payment release the deed so it could be recorded this final payment on land contract scenario happens a lot happens all the time and there is a process again this quiet title process to correct that gap in the chain of title we often see sloppy deed work done by people with low value parcels lots depressed communities especially urban communities like Detroit Flint Pontiac especially when the economy was so bad that houses in Detroit were selling for often less than the vehicles that were sitting in front of the house and rather than imagine rather than when I wanted to convey to Louise my house for a thousand dollars rather than me going in hiring a lawyer and spending money rather than be hiring a realtor rather than be hiring a title company to do a title search and to pay for a commitment in title in truth they simply just do it Hey went to the office max went online quit ninety thousand bucks go and record that type of Dean conveyance causes a lot of problems in the chain of title and we often see gaps another example Steve is sophisticated Steve owns a piece of land in Royal Oak he doesn't mind in his individual name steve says i remember i took a course once and they said create a limited liability company I'm gonna take that locked that house that I wanted my individual name avoid exposure avoid risk avoid getting sued on it I'm gonna take that I'm gonna deed it into my limited liability company 1 2 3 4 Main Street LLC he records the Dean at the Register of Deeds that house or that live is owned by the limited life three years later season I'm gonna go sell where I'm gonna go give it to my son whatever it may be my daughter and he then record the deed and forgot that he put it in the LLC he records it from Steve to the next person classic example captain che no title Steve sorry when you're in the business of probate we always talk about everyone died so Steven dies and the LLC owns it and the new the new purchaser has this gap problem right gotta get the deed from the LLC and there's nobody around many common scenarios so I'm gonna do a few more to just stimulate some concepts here if you've ever looked at a title commitment really looked at it there's a schedule right the requirements schedule you've all looked at it and you you're hoping fingers crossed you got deal it's about to close with a new book there's a there's a gap there's a requirement there's something that's problematic okay I'm giving you a sense of how a title examiner is examining the chain they're looking for these things they're looking for those deeds lining up in perfect order they're looking for the land contract to have a deed in fulfillment of the land contract they're looking for the LLC that Steve put it in to make certain that when he deeds out he deeded out from the LLC another example mortgage small mortgage cited $10,000 mortgage paid off mortgage company goes out of business has anyone seen this during the recession lot of them or a bond people go to jail and they needed to secure their bond with the real estate an asset that they own they take a loan or lien with the behind income mortgage satisfied they never got a discharge of the mortgage right little release to the mortgage another example it's not quite a missing deed but it's a gap it's a problem with title such that it would trigger a title related issue that needs to be resolved now many and at times if you look at the title commitment you'll read it and you'll say okay there's a problem here Steve's LLC did indeed out Steve did and Steve's alive is well he's he's here thankfully and you call Steve you see Steve I just need you to fix this right issue a new deed a corrective deed to fix this gap happens a lot and oftentimes unfortunately the person or persons that you need to fix the problem just don't exist in what they're not around to either dead long long disappear does this give you a sense of how when you look at a title commitment what's going on under those requirements does anyone have any questions about any of the examples that I've just expressed to you you might say your name also Julia joy thanks Jeff is a gap and a cloud untie do the same thing okay similar so if if a cloud is simply a synonym for defect a gap is one of the defects that may exist so we get out business there's a gap a cloud could also mean things that are defective with title I'll give you some examples to just illustrate other clouds that means Steve hey do you mind if I keep using this to you why Sir he's a great guy but he doesn't pay his income taxes or his payroll taxes and seven years ago he gets into all sorts of deep problems and the IRS would chords a tax lien even on his leg or under his name in the grant or grantee index under his social security number Steve then deeds to join Joanne's ready to sell title work comes back is the lien from the IRS still there or is it gone still there runs with the land you know the content runs with the land stays on the land of this disappear because Steve wanted to get rid of the parcel upon which the lien existed that's a defect right Joanne owns that property subject-to the defect which is the tax issue another example of a defect we call the top the wild deed scenario a wild deed is when somebody simply record the deed they see a vacant house let's play this out they know that their neighbor John died three years ago beautiful home beautiful beautiful he died three years old and none of the family ever visited John before he died and none of the family mows the lawn picks up the mail does anything so the neighbor keeps watching this and observes would I do can you become the owner of a house that's your neighbor that is just neglected well they try to figure it out and the neighbors that happen go record indeed I'm gonna just record a deed for John to the new owner that sounds like fraud right Sarah fraud now we often can detect when this has occurred a lot of room dead giveaways dead giveaways for the dead person often we look one dead giveaway we see it quite often is that the notary expiration that's on the notarized deed is beyond the timeframe upon which Steve died right how is it possible that the notary could have notarized it with an expiration date pass the day Steve data there's other you know markers but these types of deeds that are either fraudulent sometimes miss recordings one came by my way yesterday I'm a did they meant live 11 they recorded a lot one happens now it's awfully hard to remove it you know right you gotta figure out how to remove it if you can get people to cooperate also just so you know the controlling factor and indeed is not the address the controlling factor is the legalization so we'll talk about that a little bit later on as relates to the tax sale but the legal is critical so if somebody messes that legal up it's a defect send a gap but it's definitely a defect that there's all these are just some examples of defects that can appear on title as a as a business owner that has grown pretty significantly sized law firm it's really all about relationship work and continuing to develop meaningful trusting value based relationship and I just walked in and said hey we're your neighbor we should probably talk and Here I am having the opportunity to speak with you so I really appreciate I'd love to get to know all of you and all about senior real estate investors right you look familiar it's not like works and we do what we do a lot of fun marketing you know this is one that I thought I would kind of put up here just to get a few laughs it definitely caught some attention is that as much baby as your computer over there okay let's go it yeah boy just real quick so does your company only handle these types of type of work or are you a complete okay so in Michigan we differentiate between title companies and attorneys who are doing legal work around title I represent title agencies I do work for them and they refer us work in Illinois it's a it's an attorney's title state do you remember learning that concept in which our office also does title work but what we're talking about here today your company has a probably a preferred or direct relationship with a title company which is links legacy I tried to get the owner legacy at the moment but nonetheless legacy legacy is the title company that you're getting commitments from it's when there is a problem with title that we get involved either directly from the realtor the home owner the title company or otherwise so we're not substituting it from the word a resource for those clients and then our probate work that directly relates to this particular space the same would hold true for example dad dies we need to get the property from dead dad to son to probate our business the probate pro often get referrals from the title industry Realtors and so on to solve that problem so we're a resource and just just to make sure highlighting or clarifying this piece of it we do a lot of different things in our office I said there's 25 lawyers from estate planning to administration of probate related issues to litigation to real estate related issues to give you a sense of it now what I wanted to show here you know I think that whenever you're in and you're presenting and discussing these types of slides about the builders because nobody I can't read it and I'm right in front of it but I wanted to give you just a general sense of the timeline relating to somebody that owns a property and the properties being lost to back taxes okay in July of 2016 the taxes went out there what they were built okay city township local it became delinquent in March of 17 and what happens is as anyone willing to be brave enough to say that they were in arrears with taxes okay you earn arrears you may remember they started sending you first your bill and then you miss it and these are tacking up penalties and then they start noticing the crazy right lots of otices about the back taxes so a critical function is to make certain you know that document on the property transfer out to David you've probably seen it that property transfer affidavit signals to the county that there's been and it also tells the county who the current taxpayer of record is to make certain that notices go to the right person would you imagine if you forgot about your taxes or your elderly and didn't realize it and the notices are going somewhere else it's a real problem for people and they all of a sudden they learn they've lost the property so it's critical that you're careful about making certain that with any of the land that you owned that the taxpayer record information is correct now sometimes the taxpayer record is different than the owner right now the land sometimes the land contract purchasers paying taxes may be even attended good or a family member so as the time frame goes down we start getting lots of notices and lots of penalties and lots of assessments that go on and eventually in March of nineteen this last March the there's a judgment of foreclosure judgment of foreclosure a judgement tells us something it's a lawsuit a lawsuit actually gets five a big lawsuit for all the parcels in the county in which there is going to be a foreclosure now let's step back from on most of you are familiar with a mortgage foreclosure in a mortgage foreclosure scenario you don't pay your mortgage it goes into arrears they start sending you lots of notices your monthly two months three months and then they say where you're something more closely you get a notice from one of the foreclosing law firms maybe it strut and drive or Orleans or something like that and they start foreclosing most of the time it's a foreclosure by publication for that concept for right they published there's a sheriff sale and then there's a Redemption period usually six months on residents familiar with that concept don't pay your mortgage Sheriff sells six month window generally not always but to redeem home I can still redeem the number of those investment pools that fail all the time I said all the time there's so much peril involved here I don't want it to say that so that you don't do is there actually is a right way to do it there's lots of things that you can do to reduce the level of risk but it'd have to be savvy and smart if you're just gonna hand over money to people it's your private but you're really taking a massive risk in doing so and with the overseas people I wanted just a classic example I had what I just remember it was a Singapore investor was a client of mine and he says I demanded a photo of the property before I invested I said okay send me a photo he sends me a photo the house actually looks pretty decent in Detroit he says then I sent a friend of mine out to observe the property and they sends me a wide-angle picture that was the only house within I'm goes nothing nothing Bernardo says don't walk except that one house it'd look pretty good so I you know its perspective right and I'm not trying to scare you away I just think that the more information you have the more sense of perspective you have on this you'll be able to both make better decisions for yourself as well as better decisions for the people you're working with within the conversations people think and there's it's a quick investing if you wanted YouTube there are video after video about how you can make tremendous amount of money buying probate sell property tax reverted property foreclosure property you listen to what's going on in those YouTube videos or if you've ever been to some these clubs where people meet and they're exchanging needs it sounds too good to be true and I promise you it is it usually is our sophisticated people that know what they're doing they survive and the rest often start off strong and then end up in a quite poor position so we've got fire everywhere right caveat emptor all right let's play our way through this so everyone can read that right okay so what happens is Wayne County puts together this massive list of 3,000 plus properties and a few years ago was you like $10,000 and the list identifies the address it identifies who the prior owners may be this the publication and imagine you're showing up to buy it an auction with just a few little bits of information I encourage you to dig deep study it observe it ask lots of questions understand what you're buying another example I had a client say Darren I want a quiet title to this strip strip mall strip plot whatever it was strip mall I bought and I said I'll be centered over sends it over we looked he thought that the address correspondent to the strip it actually was a triangle piece of land that had a fire hydrant on it right so we're always tying in the legal understanding that the legal and the survey have to connect to understand what you're buying again I'm not trying to scare you I'm just trying to arm you with a lot of information so then you know the questions to be asking can really go in with an understanding so you get this massive list in 2019 it says 39 63,000 either 60 properties were for in Wayne County of that about 3500 were in the city of Detroit it makes sense right the urban communities really have been affected by this particular issue well number one more people live there it's easy number two often the urban communities have a lot of distressed properties because the financial scenario and the hot the hot area has been Detroit and we get you know people are investing in trying from all over the country and internationally because of this issue that I mentioned where the house was worth a little bit and now there's a value but I will tell you who here was in this market in 2007 during the collapsing okay so one day it was worth a tremendous amount the next day you couldn't sell it if you wanted so we're signs on houses in Detroit does anyone remember this that literally like said five hundred dollars in the front of the house just trying to move it it almost looked like post-hurricane you know then Solebury the trigger right it really was it went from houses that had valuations appraised values in the tens of thousands to they could not get rid of the houses mortgage companies walked away from real estate that they otherwise spent at foreclosed back so this is the reality of understanding that value is at that moment in time and it can change on a dime I mean I remember seeing million-dollar homes that is when the foreclosure companies came in and took every light fixture every anything correct yep this is another sheet this is off the wing coming site though the interesting thing about Wayne County is actually there are a lot less properties that went to forfeiture foreclosure than in the past it used to be a real epidemic now there's less houses available so now we've got a lot of excited purchasers bidding on not nearly and parcels of property and it often creates a artificial inflation in the bid price on parcels but in 2019 there were thirty nine sixty was forty one seventy eight and in it it has continued to drop because the general become the the unemployment rate has dried even though Detroit still has massive economic problems not as much of a crisis as it was in the last seven or ten years especially as they tore down so many abandoned properties and allow neighborhoods to start being stronger when quiet time earlier I expressed you that there are all these defects that can create a problem and I said there's really two ways to solve that one is getting the people involved to correct the problem so you call the person that has the defect you say hey you messed up the deed we need to do be oh you forgot Louise to give me a deed Louise please sign a new D the corrective deed we're gonna fix the gap in chain of title by signing the corrected documents hey mortgage company ABC mortgage you you forgot that execute a discharge after they paid you in full you call it mortgage company see you immediately on first ring an employee of ABC mortgage these enforceable decided discharged not have been in five minutes and they never tried to call mortgage companies that story is never anything out that that one so what do you do now when there is a problem that can't be fixed with corrective measures just simply gave me the cooperation of this or the individual fortunately there is this process called quiet title quiet title interesting name is a process that's used to fix to correct to quiet the chain of time remember that broken link I showed you earlier a quiet title action is a lawsuit it is a lawsuit filed in the county court it is used to fix a title problem it will fix the title problem as long as the legal theory upon which your proceeding has legitimate basis so an example mortgage company does inside the discharge call ITC mortgage ABC you are injured hey would you execute the discharge hang up the phone on you and they put you on hold they say we don't we can't find your paperwork what do you do you call again you call again you ask for a manager or supervisor and you get nowhere well if you file a lawsuit and name the mortgage company and say mortgage company you're a defendant in the lawsuit we're suing you because you never recorded a discharge of mortgage it's required that 90 days after payment you must record a discharge you fail to do so we wanted judgment that fixes the problem oh maybe the lawsuit will trigger them and cooperate or they don't and they get a judgment a judgment just like a divorce judgment or any type of other judgment it's a piece of paper that piece of paper gets recorded in the same place that your deed does in the same place that your discharge of mortgage and it's the type of money sometimes we use the quiet title process to just simply wake up the entity upon which we're trying to get to cooperate the mortgage hunter we follow the suit they call me the lawyer conferences oh that five minutes yes say her nice Oh in that scenario like on the clients and rate the homeowner or the new owner whatever the person selling obviously they're gonna wonder what is that gonna cost that ya go over that okay great question I'm gonna go over i'ma hold it for a moment just to give you a sense of this process is quite so process is utilized to fix title and it's really an option of last resort right because you're gonna try to fix it if you can but when you're stuck and there's nothing else you can do to fix it because the person is long gone they're dead they're not cooperating you've got no other choice this is the mechanism that's utilized to fix the title problem and its statutory there's a basis for this process and there are lawyers like myself who live this space and understand how to get through it in the most efficient way to resolve a title related issue that's just kind of glance at this timeline so we look at the type of work you know you usually they call me the day before closing hey they're gonna throw that problem it's a reality it happens you know all the time it's a reality and you know I have to be the bearer of bad news you're closing everything you've done all this great work to line up that closing is now going to be on hold right let's get me on hold so the moment giving you them the moment you go get that type of commitment the moment a client says to you hey I don't know if I ever got that discharge you hear these warning bells the moment those warning bells go off if you don't know what to do and your supervisor or you reach out to me it's a Haiti what should I be aware of those warning bells should go off those are hints that you may have a problem you don't want to get to the day before closing you've done way too much work to get to the eve of closing only for the thing to fall apart on something that you could have started working on well in advance so this kind of happened to me that it was on a seller site so I didn't know exactly what they did so I'm assuming this is what they did the woman had remarried and in the divorce she well in the divorce she had the house but that husband has died since forever and something was gone off the title where they needed its scientific mature or something because he's still kind of had ownership I don't know well there's what but is that kind of set water so we talked Joanne asked a little bit earlier about a defect in title in the divorce judgment you for those who have experienced divorce and you're resolving a property issue often in the divorce judgment a few things can happen either one spouse receives the house or the land and the other gets nothing but often there's like a blend maybe the wife gets the house but she owes the husband thirty thousand upon sale or mortgage maybe you know there are loose ends within that divorce judgment that must be satisfied that judgment gets recorded in the chain of title to protect the ownership interest or sometimes slopping divorce lawyers say there's a divorce and the husband gets you know the house and by the way the wife has to sign a deed and then the wife doesn't sign the deed now why they make somebody sign indeed just recording them judgment is beyond me but we see this happen a lot in these divorce sinners it's a defect that has to be resolved so the moment you hear of these things you should start asking lots of questions because you don't want to get to the eve of a closing and have it all fall apart because you didn't take it on well in advance yesterday just a marriage and one that spouse dies and you're both entitled it's just not okay we call that tenants my entire husband and wife in Michigan on a property together husband and wife and in fact with with current gay marriage laws this could be two spouse but let's just use for for illustration the the more traditional male and female scenario husband and wife one dies nothing needs to occur you can record a death certificate by operation of law surviving spouse holds I'm gonna tell you what happens all the time let's say I am married I've been married happily for a long time and I get a property but I take it in my name Darren Finley as a married man dairy fiddling is a married man that's how might need to receive that is the need that I received and that's what's recorded I die does anyone remember from your real estate exam what happens under that scenario it is not tense by entirety it doesn't automatically go to the wife it is actually owned in my name the married man is just to inform about the dowry related rules that existed it's bad attendance by eternity scenario unless both names are I and the use of the terms his wife or husband and wife for those sense of joint related issues are in play this happens a lot so how you take your deed is also quite critical as you've been a man in a will to her yes so then I die it's more fundamental you Steve died but I die I die and my will I estate planning is to my wife if you died with a will people will and you'd out of the will you go through probate that's what probate is it's the administration of the will you avoid probate if any of you have done any planning we avoid probate by owning it in your trust right and then your trust can phase out and you avoid probate so there are some probate avoidance techniques that you've been employed to avoid the scenario that we just described that's why how you take ownership and how you do your deeds are really important and I'll give you an example my mother we all came time in it okay my mother my mother has been blasted with four kids three of which are lawyers the fourth is was smart and got a PhD in education intensive my mother is fortunate that her youngest son he specializes in program related issues and Trust related issues and she remarried about ten years ago to a lovely man and I have asked her almost every week mom you have an estate plan for the two yeah mom you titled the house that you oh it's in both of our names I'm publisher he died six months ago Oh and sure enough mom sent over the well let me take a look at the Wills the fact that she you know despite the fact that she has three sons and why new who has the largest probate law firm in the state of Michigan is in three states she doesn't by the way the deed that was in both names they refinance seven years ago her credit sucked that's what they did it out put it into his name took the mortgage hey guys right deed out during the mortgage refine they forgot to put it back in the husband and wife names and here we are with this no loan - now I did it was probate court in Riverside County California and expense a time frame and a lot of insecurity because the we California law works so again these are just some examples of perils that that exist so this timeline the reason I'm showing it is not for you to master and understand the timeline but it's a lawsuit it's a lawsuit found in the circuit court any of you have never been in a lawsuit anyone willing to raise their hand you've been in a lawsuit it doesn't look like Judge Judy or the People's Court and you know just show up and you're in and out in a 40 minute you know hearing you're in for a long time you're it's a mess it's time-consuming it's exhausting it's expensive and minimum 9220 120 days and what we call a procedural quiet title that's a quiet title in which the defendants don't start litigating and fighting over ownership it's procedural in nature why 90 to 120 days the vast majority of the time is if we can't find the defendant because they're dead or disappeared the court requires you to publish in the legal news to allow them to be served with notice and that period takes a long time okay this is the notice of judgment that the treasurer issues this is the D you get from the county this is a Wayne County Treasurer quick sometimes they'll call it a quick sale deed or prickling Selvi I always we get a lot of clients with calling said I got a quick or a quiet deed or a quick sale deed now I understand why it leaves word log and blur together it's natural with the word quiet title quick it's a quick transaction including but it's a quitclaim deed and they're giving you a deed and what do we talk about at the beginning what did Steve say you don't get we don't do quit playing deeds but what are we talking about the original warranty deed and a quick claim deed at the onset of this presentation there aren't warranties they're giving you assets and fat it says that you promised in this particular case you promised this from 2013 you're gonna pay taxes you're gonna demolish or this is up this is a pledge violence yeah this is a D enriched are some requirements that you have to do specific advantage you have to keep the property condition or it will revert what we call a right over murder so some of the deeds have it some of them just simply say you're getting what you're getting precisely you have to be properly capitalized to do this then enough money to buy it enough money to keep the I enjoy property taxes enough money to renovate right so you know it's not just getting the house and then trying to figure it out later on the next slide shows some of the things that go on in the service they go out they personally visit the homeowner if there's something there they do a personal visit they actually take a photo of a house they send you notices it shows how much there's oh and how much did you pay my date the penalties if you don't pay and they actually you certify mail has if any of you are heard of most of the FOIA the FOIA requests relating to tax reverted property concept okay here's what's going on I'm gonna explain this quickly as is we're doing okay but as we're coming to this late time when there is a problem attached reverted property your homeowner has a deed the deed that I showed you a few slides earlier they have a quick name Salvi they need to be able to get title insurance right so there's two different types of title issues were worrying we're worried about marketable title do they have title such that if I deeded it to the next person it's marketable and buy it right they also were also worried about insurable title there are often the same but insurable title simply means we'll legacy title and their underwriter are they willing to issue a title insurance policy are they going to underwrite the commitment based on the title or the lack of defects that exist on that title right so we're trying to create a marketable title and a sharable title about a few years ago the title industry was presented with this issue with all of these tax reverted properties and here's what they said some of them said we will look at the history of how well they serve them one and if we feel that the service of process of the entire tantrapur process that the county just went through was beautifully done perfect it's low res will ensure so they created an insurable title and the way they assess it is by ordering Freedom of Information Act FOIA they cut the packet it shows the history of what they did so some of you may have experienced this before title company says we're gonna pull a FOIA package we're gonna look but if there's any little problem or any little risk that the title insurance in it's not willing to take they're gonna send you something like myself to resolve the title issue to use a judicial quiet title when we use the term quiet title there is only one mean velocity a quiet rebel is a lawsuit lawsuit to clean the chain of title there are other ways to solve title problems as we talked about corrective deeds FOIA analysis but a quiet titles lawsuit so usually when you're calling me you've already tried a lot of stuff and you're stuck yes so what happens often with thousands of properties imagine if they started foreclosing on the wrong house or they sent all the service to the wrong house and it happens happens not a lot in fact the counties have gotten a lot better tremendously better at making sure that service is done correctly but sometimes they may make mistakes I've seen them foreclosed on not-for-profit churches and they make mistakes not a lot or there may be a particular reason they don't want that property to go to beat at reverted and sold at auction because they have a compelling reason within the county to keep it for some particular reason or they've negotiated with the property owner and they're gonna give them more time to redeem because of them maybe there's a receivership or a bankruptcy that would stay those proceedings okay there are reasons that they can get pulled and the companies actually are doing a really good job of service but they make mistakes they absolutely make mistakes okay which it comedies you think they do we all plan most of the counties are exporting the work to these entities these third party entities so I see mistakes everywhere I think the problem the reason Wayne County gets a bad rap is just the show value they're doing the houses of these that doesn't mean they're doing a worse job than you know washer yeah so I didn't get too technical because I'll give you that form that shows of the name it's two years it's about two years it's about - you can't go for two years what the selling traits vertex intelligences title insurance a newer thing well nobody asked me the question one more time make sure I understand it I mean as long as I've been in real estate that sellers always need transfer tax and title insurance it's something it's all negotiable first of all there are just like the six percent real real estate commission is practice but it's not statutory and there's no requirement that one or the other pays but are you asking is it typical does the seller make that payment or are you saying that getting title insurance is something new that maybe I'm not clear about what you're asking so why should I give tight nations I mean I've never had anyone's keep it let me clarify this so maybe this Wow so in a transaction in a normal transaction that probably represents most if not all of the work you're doing when you sell from a buyer to the seller you this the buyer doesn't want to buy but um that was money that I would having title insurance to ensure their investment and when there's a mortgage involved I don't know one mortgage company that would ever allow that on a mortgage policy so it is part and parcel of those transactions where you don't see title insurance are what you call the on the street transactions I'm selling the Steve for ten thousand bucks a lot hey maybe I'll get title insurance maybe I won't maybe he cares maybe he doesn't it's those sets of transactions or if I need my property to Louise you know for 300 bucks I can spend 300 bucks in title insurance also so people are really to assume the risk on low value transactions also so on the street transactions you know some of the cash for property sales that we see where people are you know plunking down cash the day before maybe foreclosure some of those are done without as an example in a HUD sale they do not play title insurance it's up to the buyer to buy an owners policy okay most banks through foreclosure usually offer like a special warranty deed some type of deed as it conveyance to kind of make it you know make you feel good that some of that stuff's been wiped out but previously it's not a guarantee but it's better than not getting it right so in our purchase agreement we ask for those things we ask that the seller provided owners policy to ensure our buyer that is dere suggestion they're protected right so we asked for it and we also say you're gonna pay the transfer tax both of those things are technically negotiable correct they don't have to be burden to dealing some of the banks used to make the buyers pay the transfer tax as an example Freddie Mac at one point was making and there was a whole stink about that but just keep in mind they are negotiable if you have a client that has a title problem if you have a client that as a tax reverted property don't run away from them it's perfectly fine just understand that there's going to be some additional hurdles that you're going to have to navigate through before you reach the finish line of closing because that's the goal here right so I just say proceed carefully because often when I speak in front of groups such a wild wild west of transactions and people think it's quick money easy so just be careful what you're playing with so even recognize that I wish everyone my office is literally if you have a really good arm you could throw a stone stone stroll hey I have a bad iron I couldn't probably make it across the street so when you leave and you park at that parking garage if you're ever around and you see us walking around or wanting to pop in and say hello we're very friendly we'd love to help you whether it's this related issue or probate related issues where we're a resource for you for your clients I want to just mention one last plug about what we do one of the reasons we've had such success at growing is that we have massive inflow of people contacting us just asking questions through our websites by phone professionals lawyers most of our business actually comes from professionals and we answer everything we try to be a good resource so don't be shy about a question I mean as you follow a protocol here but we will help guide you your clients your relationships through these types of issues and I hope that they need to know each of you better as well as opportunities to continue to present information to the screw that and maybe even more cheesy pasta to allow me to further our relationships with this group so thank you so much most of our procedural fights that will actually charge $1500 to any of the fees which plus cost when I begin I've been a lawyer for 25 years when I started to a charging more money I'm quiet title action and we're charging take much more money we brought the price down it's really a low margin we do this as a service but also an entree to allow us to develop professional relationships so it's a little margin business we make 50 it's a $1,500 legal fee for 100 20 days worth of legal work so that's how you charge when there's a problem where there's truly a fight like litigation it's based on time then we will quote or estimate movies so I apologize for that thank you for bringing us back to it but we charged $1,500 plus by autumn feast and we are constantly evaluating that amount so every January of each year we assess it to see if we can still squeeze out a little bit of margin and quite an election because we found hundreds of them a year depending on how many people get served we often we often charge the same rate unless we call them kind of extraordinary circumstances so let's say there's like eight or nine defendants we may add or it's in the U P of Michigan so we try to be fair here but typically we charge a flat rate and we try so whether we're representing Bank of America a city a big company or a private individual we're charging everyone the same speed so just so work okay I I'm being mindful of I've got all the quiet title ones here I almost remember probate ones I'll put them out if it's okay help you and and again they're here we're very accessible you know we're also nearby so thank you there's any individual questions you want to pose while cleaning up I'm also happy now real quick so one point I want to make is when you receive your commitment make sure you send it to your client yes to look at and read just to check everything make sure even their name is spelled right address is breaking the mortgage amount is great so put the burden somewhat back on the fire and say hey you can check this out right it's part our job but you need to look at I wish we were at that point where maybe just crank those out every transaction but we're not it's part of the service even part of not having enough personnel a party you know if you're if you're a dummy first of all if your name you're just gonna go meet a clan that's better match what's on the PRD public records down the names don't match you know flags go up see what the hell who am I talking to what am I talking on the rapers or you know your husband and wife are on the public records but I'm only talking on one entity I need to talk to both so that's a good red flag check the public records check real list that core logic chicken Hall of data sources we had they should match up gonna talk to otherwise wasting your time potentially so you know here's a quick stupid little point we get a father that died this different would say and the son that was alive so nothing was fed nothing was done by anybody because they had the exact same name right baby cept the son uses the initial P and we get to the closing table that's when it came out nobody nobody caught that it wasn't the same person they thought the owner was it's a son but actually daddy died son house trying to sell the house everybody's like wait son go you know you know I always say what's wrong smoke my initials never know we don't close we got to go back and wait I write crazy stuff so anyway really appreciate you a great job