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good morning welcome to our clean cars minnesota rulemaking information session i'm maggie winger i'm an air policy planner at the mpca during today's virtual meeting we will have a video introduction by mpca commissioner laura bishop followed by a presentation on the regulatory analysis for this rule this is where we present information that supports why our state needs these rules and the benefits they would provide following the presentation we will address questions from participants using a q a chat feature please note the rulemaking process has now entered a phase where interested persons need to share comments directly with an administrative law judge who is overseeing the process people can submit comments to the judge directly by mail or through the ecommerce website and also during online hearings that will be held in february you will hear more information about all this later in the meeting this meeting will be focused on providing you with information about the proposed rules and the opportunity to ask questions there will be approximately 30 minutes for questions after the presentation note you are able to turn on closed captioning by clicking not from mpca available laura bishop at a pollution control agency's public information session about the clean cars minnesota rule making i'm laura bishop mpca commissioner adopting clean car emission standards is critical in our work to protect against climate change which is happening here and now with devastating effects seen and felt across our great state the clean car standards have two goals the first is to reduce greenhouse gas emissions which is the leading cause of climate change the second goal is to provide minnesotans with more choices when purchasing cleaner electric and hybrid vehicles transportation is currently the largest source of greenhouse gas emissions in minnesota and light and medium duty vehicles meaning the cars trucks and suvs we drive each day produce more than half of all transportation emissions in minnesota to address climate change minnesota has set ambitious goals for reducing greenhouse gas emissions our goals are outlined in the next generation energy act passed with bipartisan support in the minnesota legislature and signed into law by governor tim pawlenty in 2007 the act requires the state to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 15 by 2015 30 percent by 2025 and 80 by 2050 all from a 2005 baseline but so far minnesota is way off track emissions have only decreased by eight percent overall since 2005. that means we missed our target in 2015 and at this rate minnesota is not on track to meet future goals either in fact data from recent years shows we're heading in the wrong direction and emissions will continue to increase unless we take immediate action we began the clean cars minnesota effort in september 2019. governor tim walls urged the agency to take action beyond federal vehicle admission standards and adopt the clean car standards that are used by more than a dozen states across the country including colorado maine and washington also in 2019 state agencies including mpca and the minnesota department of transportation had just wrapped up a major study of how to reduce emissions from transportation according to public input gathered for the pathways to decarbonizing transportation report minnesotans want and expect action from state leaders for cleaner lower carbon transportation options including adopting clean car standards the proposed rule would allow minnesota to adopt two vehicle emission standards that only apply to new vehicles for sale in our state it would ensure minnesotans who are shopping for a new vehicle will continue to have access to the cleanest cars trucks and suvs available and more electric vehicles to choose from but this is just one part of a larger integrated strategy to build a cleaner lower carbon transportation system here in minnesota to successfully reduce emissions our state needs a multi-pronged approach that also includes building the necessary infrastructure for evs which means more charging stations around the state supporting biofuels and other cleaner fuels community efforts to reduce emissions like investing in transit and making biking and walking safer and more accessible the mpca is also leading work to address these other things we are funding projects to build out the ev charging network across minnesota and another project is to replace old diesel burning school buses with electric models which will reduce harmful emissions and protect students from pollution adopting the clean cars minnesota rule is a practical strategy for reducing emissions and an important step to protect our communities improve air quality and support a healthy climate i encourage you to visit our website to learn more about the proposed rule just go online and search clean cars minnesota thank you for your interest in this rulemaking all right we want to thank commissioner bishop for providing context for the proposed rules in our meeting today a copy of this video is available on our mpca clean cars rulemaking website where we have also saved a copy of the slides you will see in our presentation today in addition a recording of this entire virtual meeting including the q a session will be available on our website following the meeting before turning the meeting over to amanda smith who will take us through the presentation let's review guidelines for joining this virtual meeting and what you can expect as a participant if you are joining this meeting on a smartphone computer or tablet using the link provided you will hear the presenters speak and see any content they are sharing you can submit questions during and after the presentation using the question and answer chat feature on the right hand of your screen if the q a chat window is not open select the q a icon in the top right corner then type your question in the chat window we will hold all questions until after the presentation remember you can turn on closed captioning by clicking on the icon on the right side of your screen if you're calling into the meeting using the phone number provided you will hear presenters speaking but you will not be able to ask questions during the presentation or see any slides or other content being shared we will do our best to describe what appears on the slides and when it comes time for the q a session we will read the questions and our answers out loud if you have access to the internet and would like to view the slides and follow along open a browser window and search the phrase clean cars minnesota rulemaking that should bring you to the right webpage then scroll down to public information sessions a pdf file of those slides is available of these slides is available there please note all participants in the meeting will remain muted throughout that means mpca staff cannot hear you if you ask a question out loud we will do our best to answer as many questions as we can during the allotted time but please note we will not be answered to be able to answer certain types of questions in addition fpca staff cannot take rule making comments during this information session and now i would like to introduce amanda smith who will take us through the presentation good morning everyone um thank you so much for joining us today let me just get everything set up here my name is amanda jarrett smith i'm the climate and energy policy planner at the minnesota police control agency and the project coordinator for this rulemaking thanks again for joining us today to learn more about the clean cars minnesota rulemaking in this presentation i'm going to have three main parts the first is to walk through the proposed clean cars minnesota rule and the two emission standards that we're proposing to adopt in this action then i'm going to give a brief overview of the mpca's analysis of the proposed rule and its potential effects and then finally i'll cover how you can give feedback and participate in this part of the rulemaking immediately following the presentation we'll have times for questions and answers with myself and other mpca staff and you can feel free to start inputting those questions now and we'll address them as once the presentation concludes so let's get started the clean cars minnesota rulemaking would enable the state to adopt two clean car standards known as the low emission vehicle standard and the zero emission vehicle standard the low emission vehicles are traditional cars suvs and pickup trucks that run relatively cleanly on liquid fuels zero emission vehicles are powered by electricity and have no tailpipe emissions as commissioner bishop introduced these standards would work together to ensure minnesotans shopping for new new vehicles will have continued access to the cleanest models available and more options for electric vehicles these standards have been adopted by a number of other states including colorado maine and washington so we have seen them in action we know the standards work that vehicle manufacturers can comply with them successfully and we have a community of other states to learn from that includes cold weather climates and rural communities so this slide shows a map of the 14 states in the district of columbia that have adopted the low emission vehicle standard nearly all have also adopted the zero emission vehicle standard it also shows the three additional states that are currently in progress towards adopting these standards along with minnesota nevada and new mexico are currently working to adopt both clean car standards all states that have adopted the clean car standards have done so through a similar rule-making process like the one we're following here in minnesota except for washington dc which is not a state so i'm going to talk a little bit about each of the standards now um the first is the low emission vehicle standard or lev which sets limits for tailpipe pollution for auto manufacturers meaning it regulates the amount of greenhouse gases and other harmful air pollution that new vehicles can emit this standard is nothing new the auto industry has been successfully meeting the standard since 2012. lev certified vehicles are already what's for sale in minnesota lots in fact because the federal standard and the love standard were the same from 2012 until 2020 all new vehicles sold in minnesota over the last eight years have been lev certified vehicles adopting the lev standard now would preserve consumer access to these cleaner more efficient vehicles that minnesotans enjoy today it's also important to note that the love standard becomes more stringent over time which means it requires the auto industry to make incremental progress year over year in producing cleaner lower emitting vehicles the second standard is the zero emission vehicle standard or zev and it works slightly differently it requires auto manufacturers to deliver more zero-emission vehicles for sale in minnesota increasing each year so here we're talking about battery electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles the exact exact number of vehicles is linked to the auto manufacturer's overall sales within the state and like lev this standard also calls for incremental progress over time not sudden overnight change right now it is simply the case that there are more makes and models available in dev states states that have adopted this rule than we can easily acquire here two examples that we hear about a lot are the subaru crosstrek hybrid and the kia niro ev electric suv options that aren't offered in minnesota currently automakers are investing billions of dollars in developing this technology and bringing new makes and models to the market this slide includes an image of the ford f-150 electric model which is just one example among many of new electric suvs crossovers and pickup trucks that are coming down the pike in the past we in minnesota have been on the tail end of receiving new makes and models of electric vehicles but we want to ensure that minnesota is on the forefront of receiving this new innovation and there's a potential knock on effect too more new evs on the market here could lead to more used evs becoming available in our secondary markets as well so this slide lists some of the basic facts about the proposed clean cars minnesota rule it would apply to new light and medium duty vehicles only it does not apply to off-road or heavy-duty equipment or vehicles like farm equipment or semi-trucks it does not apply to existing vehicles or used vehicles and does not require anyone to get rid of a vehicle they already own it does not require emissions testing the proposed rule does not require any individual to purchase an ev and does not eliminate the pop eliminate popular vehicles like suvs or pickup trucks this slide shows the possible timeline for implementation if the proposed rule is approved by the administrative law judge and the mpca completes the rulemaking process in 2021 the federal government would also need to restore california's waiver under the federal clean air act before implementation could begin as the timeline illustrates in the green section the federal clean air act requires a two-year waiting period between adopting and implementing the clean car standards this means that there is considerable time built in for auto manufacturers to plan and prepare before the standards would go into effect in minnesota the proposed rule would affect new vehicles for sale starting in model year 2025 or approximately january 2024 at the soonest we are also proposing an early action credit system to encourage manufacturers to bring more electric vehicles to minnesota even sooner earning early action credits would be an optional would be optional for manufacturers but would provide an incentive for them to ramp up their ev offerings before 2024. so as part of the rulemaking process mpca staff are required to conduct a thorough technical analysis of the potential effects of a of a proposed rule and share these results with the presiding administrative law judge and the public this is called the statement of need and reasonableness or sonar in the next few slides i will be walking through the results of this analysis but if you'd like a deeper dive you can access the full sonar document on the mpca's website as we go through the results i'll give page numbers from the sonar where you can find more information so as commissioner bishop introduced the primary goal of this rule making is to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from transportation by making sure minnesota consumers have access to cleaner traditional vehicles and more electric vehicles the chart on this side slide shows the annual well to wheel greenhouse gas emission reductions in the first 10 years of implementation starting with model year 2025 and continuing through 2034. mpca uses well-to-wheel emissions calculations to make sure that we are capturing the fullest picture of emissions and potential benefits this means our analysis includes the emissions from vehicle tailpipes as well as emissions from power plants used to generate electricity for powering electric vehicles as well as the liquid the extraction transportation and processing of liquid fuels you can find this chart and more information on page 77 of the sonar the mpca's analysis estimates that the clean cars minnesota rule would reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 8.4 million tons in the first 10 years of implementation what starts as a modest emission reduction in model year 2025 grows into bigger and bigger benefits each year by model year 2034 we estimate that the clean cars minnesota rule would reduce 1.4 million tons of greenhouse gases in that year alone this graph only shows the first 10 years of implementation so it's important to note that the benefit will continue to grow for at least another decade beyond this time frame the mpca's analysis also indicates that the proposed rule would increase consumer choice for electric vehicles our analysis showed that evs make up less than 0.3 percent of new vehicles on the lot in for sale in greater minnesota and less than one percent of new vehicles for sale on lots in the twin cities metropolitan area that's not a lot of choices for consumers to consider when shopping for a new vehicle meanwhile our analysis shows that dealers in cold weather zev states like vermont new york and connecticut are carrying higher numbers of electric vehicles in comparably sized communities more like one to three percent of available vehicles for sale the numbers here are still not large but they do indicate that dealers and states are with similar climates to minnesota are carrying a higher percentage of evs on their lots including in smaller towns you can find more information about ev availability on page 49 of the sonar next the mpca's analysis demonstrates that the proposed rule would protect human health by reducing community exposure to harmful air pollution from vehicles specifically we estimate that clean cars minnesota would reduce more than 6 000 tons of non-methane organic gases and nitrogen oxides and over 3 000 tons of particle pollution in the first 10 years of implementation alone this rule would prevent hundreds of premature deaths from respiratory and cardiovascular health effects of air pollution during that same time period and the economic value of these avoided deaths and other negative health impacts may be as high as 3.2 billion dollars you can find more information about the potential health benefits of the rule on page 79 of the sonar the mpca's analysis also looked at the equity impacts of the proposed rule our equity analysis can be found starting on page 83 of the sonar currently lower income communities and communities of color in minnesota are exposed to higher levels of vehicle pollution due to a history of discriminatory and racist policies and practices in urban planning housing and highway design our analysis indicates that these overburdened communities would see the greatest air quality benefits from the proposed rule this slide includes a chart showing which geographic areas specifically would see the largest reductions in harmful air pollution from implementing the clean car's rule pm 2.5 is fine particle pollution which is a primary pollutant from vehicles that impacts human health the dashed line on the chart running horizontally indicates the estimated average pollution reductions we'd expect to see across the entire state on your far left you can see that the largest estimated pollution reductions would be seen in what's labeled as ej areas bypac bipac is an acronym that stands for black indigenous and people of color so what this means is that the largest estimated pollution reductions will be in those areas that the mpca identifies as areas of concern for environmental justice specifically those with higher concentrations of black and indigenous residents and people of color in the middle you'll see that low low income areas will also see a larger air quality benefit than the statewide average on the far right you'll see that tribal areas are lower this is because they are more mostly rural and therefore experience lower vehicle-related emissions to begin with while the proposed clean cars minnesota rule would not entirely eliminate existing air quality disparities in minnesota it is an important step towards reducing them the clear air quality the clear air quality benefits for some of our most overburdened communities finally i want to cover what the mpca's analysis found in terms of potential costs and benefits for consumers who purchase a new vehicle after the clean car standards have been implemented first let's cover the basics for consumers looking to buy a new lev certified vehicle as i introduced earlier love certified vehicles are already what's for sale in minnesota dealerships and it's what's been for sale here in minnesota for the last eight years however a potential cost difference could occur if in the future auto manufacturers begin producing models that two different models one cleaner more efficient model for love states and one higher emitting model for non-love states the mpca analyzed the potential impact of consumers for this possible price difference and found that there is a negligible difference in terms of cost or benefit for most consumers essentially the potential higher upfront cost of a leve certified vehicle would be made up for over time due to fuel savings when it comes to purchasing a new electric vehicle the benefits are even clearer there is a clear consumer benefit based on savings related to fuel and maintenance and studies indicate that battery costs are continuing to decline so the financial benefit of a battery electric vehicle is expected to grow over time lastly mpca's analysis also explored possible impacts to traditional vehicle availability in all but one of the states that have adopted clean car standards the most popular vehicle model is an suv or a pickup truck this indicates that the availability of traditional trucks and suvs has not been negatively affected by auto manufacturers delivering more electric vehicles for sale and consumers in clean car states continue to have access to all types of vehicles all right so we've reached the final section in my last few slides i'm going to walk through the next steps in the rule making process and how you can participate as a reminder if you're participating via smartphone computer or tablet you can submit questions you have for mpca staff at any time using the question and answer chat feature on the right side of your screen if that window is not open select the q a icon at the top right corner then type your question in the chat window you can submit your questions at any point and we'll begin answering the questions after the presentation so this slide provides an overview of where we are currently in the rulemaking process in december 2020 the mpca published the official notice of intent to adopt rule with a hearing in the state register and on our website i recommend everyone read the full notice of intent and review all the information it contains the notice and all supporting documents are published on our website including the proposed rule language and the sonar we discussed here today to find this page go online and search for clean cars minnesota rulemaking and this page would appear at the top of your search results when the notice was published a new comment period opened which gives minnesotans another opportunity to weigh in during this comment period all questions comments and feedback should be submitted directly to the administrative law judge assigned to this rule making in february the presiding administrative law judge judge jessica palmer denig will hold a public hearing on february 22nd and 23rd beginning at 3 pm both days attending this hearing is one opportunity for you to submit questions or comments before the judge in a bit we'll share additional ways for you to submit your comments please note that the comment period will close on march 15th when the comment period closes you will also have an opportunity to read and respond to the comments that others have submitted this is what's known as the rebuttal period more information about the rebuttal period is available on the office of administrative hearings website which we'll cover in the next slide after the comment period closes the alj will consider the materials submitted by the agency along with your comments and later issue a decision on whether mpca may adopt the proposed rule if you would like to propose changes to the rule ask a question or otherwise submit your views about the clean cars minnesota rule there are two possible methods for you to choose from regardless of which method you choose your feedback will be considered equally and you can choose one or both of the methods that we'll talk about here this slide shows the first method which is to put your comment into writing and submit it directly to judge palmer dennick you can submit your comment online using the office of administrative hearings rulemaking ecommerce website the direct link is posted here and on the mpca's website for step-by-step instructions search minnesota rulemaking comments website the oah website should appear at the top of your results the image at the right on the slide shows what that web page should look like from here you can access instructions for how to use the e-comments website as well as their faq you are strongly encouraged to submit written comments to the alj through this website but if that is not possible for you you can submit your written comments in person via us mail or by fax to judge palmer denig using the instructions in the public notice an important reminder all written comments must be submitted to the alj if you submit comments to the mpca instead it will not be part of the rulemaking record so this slide shows the second method which you can which is to attend a public hearing online in february and ask your questions share your suggested changes or voice your opinions there this is not what is referred to as giving testimony at the hearing the hearings will start at 3 pm and go till at least 6 pm each day the public hearings will be held online only using webex so there is no opportunity to participate in person links to join the public hearing are available in the public notice to participate in the public hearings you will need access to a smartphone computer or tablet with an internet connection and a microphone or headset if you would like to speak you can also choose to just watch the proceeding right now the webex links provided in the public notice are the only confirmed method for how you can participate in the hearing we are still working with the office of administrative hearings to determine whether an option for a call in by phone will work with the hearing process when we have more information on that we will post additional details on the rulemaking webpage so with that thank you for joining us today we're now going to begin the question and answer portion of our session today as a reminder if you're participating via smartphone computer or tablet you can submit questions you have for mpca staff using the question and answer chat feature at the right side of your screen if the chat box is not already open select the q a icon at the top right corner and then type your question and submit all right thank you a lot of people have already submitted questions so we're going to get to as many as we can and as amanda said we may combine some on similar topics so we can cover as much ground as possible there was one question i want to note for everyone the other information sessions scheduled this week and in the coming weeks will cover the same material you're welcome to attend as many as you wish but it will be the same presentation um so the first question we have is from sean hanna in the 18 years since california adopted its own clean car standards it still has the highest worst pollution in the country while minnesota is one of the cleanest air states since california has failed to actually create a clean air state why would minnesota want to model after california we have several other questions in the queue about the the relationship between this rule and the california standards all right great thank you that's a great question so um here in minnesota we have our own air quality and climate goals and that we are trying to achieve and so we analyzed what this role might do here in minnesota to help us achieve those goals and those were the things that i outlined in our in the presentation um so you know california has its own special unique um circumstances in terms of um air pollution and kind of the circulation of weather and things like that but what we've done is analyze whether or not these rules would benefit minnesota and our analysis found that they would and so that's why we're proposing to adopt the standards here all right we also got a question about future california standards uh california is pursuing additional rulemaking or initiating additional rulemaking um how would that affect this rule or did we consider that in in developing this rule yeah another great question so what we are doing today is proposing to adopt the standards as they exist today so those are standards through model year 2025. if california chooses to adopt new standards beyond model year 2025 we would need to analyze those standards and determine whether or not they make sense for minnesota and then choose to either continue to follow the california standards or return to using federal standards if we either way it would require a rule making process and there would be an additional analysis like the one we've outlined here and we would have a new public comment period so i just want to emphasize that what we're doing here is proposing to adopt the standards as they exist today not any future standards that would require a separate and potentially future process all right we also have multiple questions on the process for this rule and why it did not go through the legislature all right great questions lots of great questions so um in in minnesota and other states the state legislature gives agencies authorities to adopt rules under under kind of their area of expertise so in minnesota the state legislature gave the mpca the authority to adopt rules related to air pollution specifically including motor vehicle pollution so we are adopting these rules under those authorities given to us by the state legislature rulemaking is a standard process that state agencies go through on the regular on a regular basis i also think that it's important to note that these are regulations under the clean air act and the mpca is the authority in minnesota for adopting rules related to the clean air act and all the other states that have adopted these rules have done so through rule making so we're following a standard process that has been laid out for us by the state legislature and by the clean air act and we are doing so under those authorities that have been given to us by by the minnesota state legislature and by the clean air act all right we have a other states information question since 11 of the 15 states using california's clean car rules have been in effect for at least 10 years has minnesota accumulated data on the success or failure of the strategy in their analysis if so where is this data that's from sean hanna again great thanks for that question um so we know that the vehicle manufacturers have been complying with these standards in these states um since they've been adopted so um we have no reason to believe that they wouldn't be uh that they would not be able to comply with them here in minnesota and we have analyzed the the air pollution and greenhouse gas emissions benefits that we anticipate here in minnesota and that's outlined in our in our documentation okay we have a question about from wally on with the substantial reduction in miles driven in 2020 based on governor waltz's lockdowns what reduction have we seen in 2020 emission levels um we don't have uh mission calculations here for 2020 yet we did recently release a greenhouse gas inventory report that goes through 2018 that's the most current data that we have but in in the future we would have that data for for 2020 but we don't have it available today um we have some questions about the equity analysis um in the equity part um are the numbers for each category in percentiles i think we might want to go back to that slide if we can sure um you know i might ask my colleague david bale who is one of our analysts on this rule making to try to answer that question if you could david uh yes thank you amanda good morning everyone i'm david bale i'm an economic policy analyst at the mpca and i'm one of the people that did the regulatory analysis for this rule proposal um so good question um i think i uh these are not percentile reductions rather these are our estimates of the reduction in of uh ambient pm 2.5 concentrations in the air that would result from this rule so you can see for example uh that for the environmental justice areas identified because of their black indigenous and people of color we predict that this rule will result in a reduction of 0.26 micrograms per cubic meter in their annual average pm 2.5 in those areas so these are not percentiles these are absolute reductions as a result of this rule i hope that helps explai thank you thanks david all right we just a quick reminder we have a lot of questions in the queue we're going to get to as many as we can we're going to try and focus on questions about the analysis um and if you have additional information that you can provide or you have a comment to make there please submit that to the ecommerce site or at the hearing as amanda explained so the next question is about does the cost analysis account for lost gas tax revenue by electrification another great question so um we did look at state revenue impacts in our analysis and i think i'll refer this question to david again david yes thank you again amanda i agree good question um so yes as amanda just stated we did look at the impacts on state revenues that we expect as a result of this rule one of the key impacts as the questioner alluded to is our state fuel taxes with people buying and consuming less less gasoline as a result of this rule there will be less gas um fuel tax revenue for the state that is true um however we we found that those uh loss reduce fuel tax revenues are almost exactly offset by gains in revenues for the state including gains in sales tax revenue gains in registration annual registration tax revenues gains in uh because currently battery electric vehicles in minnesota uh our owners have to pay a 75 annual premium on their registration so uh there will be reduced fuel tax revenues for the state but these are almost exactly offset by gains and other sources of state revenue thanks thanks david um we have a lot of questions about impacts to dealers and reduced car sales i'm trying to find one to publish but you know concerns about overall reduced sales and impacts on auto dealers so one from scott lambert don't you believe there will be no air quality benefit if people can't afford the new price you are setting for the vehicle um well we are not setting any new prices for vehicles those are set by vehicle manufacturers not by the state that said we have not seen any clear evidence of what one might call a rebound effect where vehicles are sold at a lower rate than then because of upfront costs but i think i'll maybe refer to david if he wants to talk a little bit about that part of our analysis david do you have anything you want to add yeah thanks amanda yeah i would just reiterate that uh um yes of course that the manufacturers set the prices it is true that if it costs more for manufacturers to produce cars to meet stricter regulations then those uh those additional costs to manufacturers will be passed on to purchasers the consumers that purchase those vehicles in our consumer analysis we have estimated that for um lev certified cars will will likely have on average a higher purchase cost than uh than vehicles that just satisfy the current federal standards however we've also found that those increased purchase costs are generally offset for for leb certified vehicles by savings over time and reduced fuel costs so we we actually don't see that there is a severe kind of uh consumer impact of lev uh in terms of you know direct impacts on minnesotans pocketbooks and and moreover for the zev standard we actually see a consumer benefit even with the current the current uh generally higher cost of electric vehicles um but that is made up uh more than made up over time in fuel and maintenance savings so we don't expect this rule to have a you know detrimental effect generally on minnesota consumers um and in fact we and it's the considerable consumer benefits of electric vehicle ownership i hope that answered the question feel free to follow up if if you want more and i think i'll just add um you know there our consumer cost benefit analysis is quite lengthy and and detailed and i'd encourage folks who are interested in it to take a look at our statement of need and reasonableness the sonar um starting on page 71 and then we have a technical support document that outlines the details of our methodology that i'd encourage folks to explore as well all right we have a question from marlin in the presentation you said evs have not affected the number of other popular vehicles offered for sale if that is the case why do we think that sale of electric vehicles would increase here so offering more electric vehicles for sale especially i think well let me go back to our slide here so our analysis indicates that um here we go that states that have adopted these standards do have more electric vehicles on offer for people who want to buy an electric vehicle so as i mentioned right now there are certain makes and models that folks in minnesota are not able to easily access here there's also very few models on the lot for folks who might want to consider an ev among other options so the intent here is to provide more options for folks who might want to purchase an electric vehicle these numbers are still not huge and so that means that folks who want to purchase a vehicle that is not an electric vehicle still have plenty of access to those types of vehicles as well all right we have a couple questions about what is the current pm25 pollution level statewide in the twin cities um are we meeting the federal standards and if we're meeting the federal federal standards how do we show any health impacts of reductions um i'll publish one but there are several in the queue great question so um we are currently meeting um our standards for fine particle pollution here in minnesota but i think i'll again defer to david to provide a little bit more detailed answer to that question david do you have some thoughts uh sure i can uh provide a few comments thank you um so i think the questioner asks what what is the current pm 2.5 or fine particles air quality standard and that is 12 micrograms per cubic meter annual average pm 2.5 as amanda said currently all parts of minnesota are in attainment of that standard but i would say and research tends to back this up that just because we are in attainment of air quality standards does not mean that there are no effects of or no health impacts of air pollution at levels below those standards so uh based on epidemiol epidemiological research including that done by the epa and its regulatory impact analyses shows that there is significant evidence that there are still health impacts of these pollutants even at levels below the standards thus we estimate that from reducing the levels of these pollutants in minnesota's air there will be health benefits even though again we are in attainment of standards thanks all right um are commercial vehicles included in the rule if not why so the rule is about um low emission vehicles and excuse me light duty vehicles and medium duty vehicles and so that doesn't um have to do with the use of the vehicle it has to do with the size of the vehicle um so a light duty vehicle or a medium duty vehicle used for personal use or for business use are both regulated under the standard um this is anonymous but did the mpca basically just copy what colorado did with their rule making and what differences were identified between minnesota and colorado great question so the clean air act allows states to either use the federal standard or adopt these alternative standards and if we adopt the alternative standards we need to adapt them identically to what the other states who have these alternative standards have done so the rule is very similar to what you would see it call in colorado the primary difference though is that we looked at so let me back up a little bit the zev standard is implemented through a credit banking system so vehicle manufacturers earn credits for different electric vehicles depending on the type of the vehicle and how far it can drive on a battery charge and that is intended to give manufacturers flexibility for how they implement the rule and what makes sense for their fleet and vehicle options so states that adopt these standards are allowed to develop mechanisms to establish an initial bank of credits for manufacturers to make sure that those manufacturers have flexibility in the initial years of implementation colorado had one method for doing this and the mpca after analyzing that potential method and a variety of others we determined a different method would work best for us so that is the main area of of difference between our rule and what colorado did all right we have a few questions in the chat about electric vehicles in cold weather and whether we took this drop the drop in efficiency into account when calculating emissions and consumer benefits um i think i'll defer to david on this question david do you have some thoughts to share yeah i'm sorry could you repeat that question again maggie uh it was about uh we have a couple about just what you know evs don't have the same range or efficiency in cold weather how did we take that into account on the the costs and benefits yeah it's a very good question and it might be a little bit outside the scope of what we we did in our regulatory analysis particularly for consumer impacts um yes undoubtedly that that is a significant significant concern to consumers uh range issues as amanda um mentioned in their presentation that we are you know concurrently working on uh expanding ev infrastructure to address some of these concerns um but we did not factor this into our consumer analysis um as amanda also noted note this uh this the zev standard will not require anybody to purchase an ev if they if people feel that given kind of the uh charging infrastructure that they have access to is is unsatisfactory you know they will not have to purchase an ev um so but the short answer is we did not take into account range issues and looking at consumer impacts we just looked at the direct uh financial impacts thanks thanks david all right we have a couple questions on the process for the hearing so example should parties sign up in advance to provide hearing testimony is there a time limit will the office of administrative hearings provide information on their process or have a public info session of its own so so amanda if you were kd you want to want to share some details on how the hearing will work sure i think i can take a first crack and then i may call in um our rulemaking coordinator here to to help me out so um there are a lot of pieces to that so the first is that no the office of administrative hearings will not be providing its own information session that is what we're trying to provide here we want to make sure that minnesotans who are interested in this role making understand how they can participate in it and provide comments and so that's one of the core reasons why we're doing these information sessions so that folks know how to participate in terms of a time limit that would be set by the administrative law judge and that has not been determined yet and let's see what else was on that that list of questions um could someone prompt me was there another or maybe it's in the chat here um oh do you have to sign up in advance um i do not believe so katie could you help us with do you need to sign up in advance for to testify at the hearing hi um we do not sign up in advance the way the rule hearings work is that the judge assigns i believe assigns the order or takes people in the order they sign up as the hearing begins um they don't want there to be some sort of advantage for people who hear about it early or something so uh yeah no advanced sign up and the the time limit will be determined by the judge at the hearing thank you katie [Music] all right we have i'm going to publish one from julia reggie but there are several about this idea the commissioner mentioned the need for a multi-pronged approach including expanding infrastructure in biofuels has analysis been done to identify the amount of charging that needs to be available to support the level of ebs required by the rules um we have not done that analysis although there are lots of analyses that exist out there that look at the need for charging and um in states and across the country so we are working to grow the ev charging infrastructure here in minnesota mpca has invested millions of dollars from the national volkswagen settlement fund to expand infrastructure across greater minnesota along highway corridors and in community uses as well there's it's also not just the mpca that's acting on this so several utilities and communities are installing charging across the state as well and so we know that we need to continue to grow our ev infrastructure in the state and we are committed to doing that all right we have a couple questions about how the benefits happen or what benefits do rural areas see from this rule making would reduced emissions only affect the twin cities um why are we applying this statewide so i think in general what's the geographic distribution of the benefits and costs great great question so we cannot apply different vehicle emission standards to different parts of the state the clean air act allows states to either use the federal standards that the epa writes or we can use these alternative standards but we have to use them statewide we can't apply them differently in different places so we're proposing to adopt these standards as a state in terms of benefits of the rule you know greenhouse gas emission reductions anywhere benefit the climate everywhere and so i think that's an important piece to understand and then in terms of air pollution that kind of more directly impacts human health like fine particles and nitrogen oxides those you know we have busy highways all across the state and and those pollutants are most impactful to folks who live close to those busy highway corridors and there are air pollution health impacts across our state and maybe david might want to highlight a couple of their thoughts on this topic as well david do you have anything you want to add yes thanks amanda there's not much i would add to that i certainly agree with questioner that there will be larger you know air quality benefits to as a real result of this rule in more heavily populated areas um of course that does not apply to the greenhouse gas emissions as amanda just explained those benefits are are you know the same wherever those emissions occur um and also as amanda said you know we don't have the option to apply a different rule to one part of minnesota and another to another part of minnesota so uh not sure i added a whole lot but those are some of my thoughts thanks great thanks david i would also encourage folks a little bit outside of this but i would encourage folks who are interested in air pollution impacts in greater minnesota and across our state we have a report called the life and breath report that was published i believe last year that looked at the health impacts of air pollution across minnesota and it is the fact that air pollution does not just affect the health of minnesotans in the twin cities or other metropolitan areas but across our state and i encourage folks to take a look at that as well excuse me what are you going to say maggie new questions so that's good does the cost analysis account for loss of minnesota oil and gas industry including impacts of lost employment and tax revenue from shutting down oil refineries terminals pipelines gas stations etc i think the short answer is that we did not factor in that level of detail on the oil and gas industry but david do you want to provide some thoughts yes thanks amanda it's a great question um as amanda mentioned we that was not the focus of our uh costs and benefits uh impacts we looked at the uh costs and benefits to minnesota consumers however we did give some attention i can't remember which page of the sonar but we did we did address uh that there will would be potentially larger more macroeconomic impacts of this rule that is uh impacts that are more widespread throughout minnesota's economy and as the questioner mentioned i mean one of uh one of the kind of sub-sectors of the minnesota economy that could see impacts is the oil and gas sector and there is the possibility that there will be negative effects on on that sector of minnesota's economy however there will also be positive sec uh impacts on other sectors in the minnesota economy including the electricity sector in luding um you know the the sectors involved with you know the building ev infrastructure so there are many different uh kind of economic impacts that uh there will be some parts of the economy that gain and and some that lose but in our in our analysis we focused on consumer impacts and i'll just add um to that so our in the sonar if you want to look at all the different cost benefit analyses that we put together that all starts on page 68 of the sonar if you want to look at the content that david just mentioned let me find that for you that can be found starting on page 75 of the sonar all right we have another alj question will the administrative law judge adopt the rule as proposed or might they change components like the credit banking so the administrative lodge i guess just one point of clarification um the actor who adopts or does not adopt the standards would be the the mpca the minnesota pollution control agency the administrative law judge can will tell us whether or not we are allowed to adopt the standard they can also tell us if we need to change parts of the rule before adopting or if they have recommendations for us for changing the rule before adopting if katie has anything she wants to add to that i'd pause for a moment okay sounds like not all right i think this we have time for one more question and then um we'll wrap up with instructions on how to submit a comment um so we have a couple questions in the queue about how does the new federal administration affect this rulemaking um and have we considered waiting or or you know to see what happens with federal emission standards great question so there's a lot of uncertainty about what the federal the new federal administration may or may not do and what we want to do here is to adopt standards that we know exist and that we have analyzed for the costs and benefits here in minnesota and to provide some certainty going forward related to that so we'll have to see what happens at the federal level um but adopting these standards allows us to know that that at least in the near term these are the standards that will apply here in minnesota all right um we're at our time thank you everyone for participating in our meeting today again for more information go online and search for clean cars minnesota rulemaking that will take you to our main rulemaking webpage that's where you can find a copy of the presentation we heard today as well as a recording of this entire presentation give us 24 hours on that and commissioner bishop's opening remarks um it's also where you will find a schedule of upcoming meetings including the administrative law judge hearings in february thank you again have a good day