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Okay, Good evening all um thank you for attending tonight's basic benefit webinar. Uh my name is Andrew Collier and I work for the National Public Pension Coalition. um before we get started with tonight's presentation uh Mike Scribner from keeping the Kansas Promise. Uh we'll say a few words, Mike. Yes, good evening all thanks for attending and welcome to the informational webinar. Sponsored by Keeping Kansas Promise. Thanks, Sarah Terry, Troy and John. For all the hard work you do in our great state established in 2011 K has been on the front lines of protecting public pension uh public employee pension benefits provided by the Kansas Public Employee Retirement System or Capers, KP consists of organizations including Teamsters Coast, AFK, EA and SEIU. Today's webinar is hosted by National Public Pension Coalition, Thanks Bridget Andrew and Company Special Thanks to Andrew for taking all my calls yesterday and today uh which is the K's national partner Tonight, Alan Conroy, executive director of Capers. We will be providing you all with the basic benefit webinar, so you can get the background on your pension benefit guarantee to you retirement. Alan will also cover the different tears of retirement within Capers and the benefit covered Alan Conroy. Retirement System's Chief Executive officer, reporting to a nine member board of trustees he's responsible for all aspects of Capers daily operations. Capers has over 315000 members and investments of over $21000000000. Allen joined the retirement system in February 2012. Mister Conroy has over 40 years of government experience in state government fiscal analysis in both the legislative and executive branches in the legislative branch. Allen served in leadership roles for the Kansas Legislative Research Department. The non-partisan. And fiscal agency for Kansas Legislature, One of his assigned areas was in retirement and public pension policy. Special Thanks to Mister Conroy for being here tonight uh before we get started today. If you have any questions during the webinar, please enter them into the chat box at the bottom of your screen. We'll do our best to answer all of your questions before the conclusion of the webinar without further delay. here is mister Alan Conroy. um thank you. Michael. I appreciate that kind uh introduction. Um and I'm certainly pleased to be here uh this evening uh with the group um certainly through the years keeping the Kansas Promise has done a lot uh on the legislative front um and it's uh the efforts of the organization certainly should be commended. So uh we appreciate all the efforts of everybody that's involved um certainly Michael and Troy and Terry and and and Andrew as well so uh again I'm I'm just gonna spend a little time here uh. Talking about uh providing an overview of Capers funding talking about some of the uh the different benefit groups that make up capers uh briefly touch on Capers 457, which is a deferred compensation plan, and then for those of you that might be uh getting near retirement. um uh to just share some important information for you uh either as you're approaching retirement or um have uh then once you actually. Actually uh retire uh I think this though uh the presentation this evening really uh of course we wanna make it uh most beneficial to you. So as uh, Michael Indicated don't hesitate to uh reach out in that chat box um and certainly try to be responsive either now or even after the presentation be glad to follow up uh with any emails or phone calls or whatever might be uh. So again, this is your time I wanna make it as helpful uh and uh to you. As we go to the next uh slide um in terms of the overview uh and then on to the next slide, please on slide four, then uh really just wanna uh talk about um really, you know Capers only exist for one purpose and of course that's to serve our members um and of course, um you know it's provide those benefits that you all as dedicated public servants uh are entitled to you've earned you've made the contribution. You've paid uh your part uh you've done the service um and so you're entitled to these benefits and so here at Capers. um that's what we're all about. um our staff uh sort of carries that on their sleeve that really we're only here to serve our members and we try to never lose sight of that focus. We use the term capers uh kind of as an umbrella term. uh some of you may know there's actually three different retirement systems uh within Capers. There's a regular caper system and we'll talk more about that. There's a police and fire retirement system uh which is made up for public safety uh officers and then a retirement system for judges. uh we'll talk about the membership in just a moment but um I always say from this sort of nondescript uh former uh Ibn building uh on Kansas Avenue in downtown Topeka. Uh we interact with over 1500 employers across the state over 300000 members and. Portfolio um that we're running and of course it varies certainly these days, but around 2122 $1000000000 with AB those 1500 employers that we interact with um and you uh probably are serving uh in one of these areas, but certainly of course all um state employees um excluding the regions all the local school districts all the counties almost all the cities. The city of Wichita is large enough to have their own retirement system and then you get into those uh kinda special purpose districts might be like a library Board, a Community College Conservation District, the drainage district um you know uh on on down the list, Fire Service Protection District um all those then make up those the balance of those 1500 employers. so um clearly uh Capers touches almost all uh public employees across uh our great state. At whatever different level uh they may be providing their service next slide, please um as Michael mentioned uh we have a nine member board of trustees and just to remind you these nine members four appointed by the governor uh one appointed by the Speaker of the House once appointed by the president of the Kansas Senate, the state treasures on by virtue of the office uh and then two of the members are elected, then by the membership, one on the non school side and one on the school. And active and retired members. uh neither one of those groups uh have the opportunity to vote all the members uh serve uh 4 year terms of office uh and so um they get the opportunity to um provide guidance uh to the keeper staff um over fairly uh long period of time and they can be reappointed. should they re appointing authority want want to do that? On the next slide, then uh as we look to the system, statistics um and this is then this just looks at active members. so there's 156000 active members uh in Capers um and they range in age from seventeen to age 90.2 and we verify that and we have a ninety-two-year-old um active member uh contributing uh earning a salary and uh carrying out. Their assigned assigned duties uh Capers one which uh is the largest membership group um and is uh we'll talk more about uh that, but it's for those people that have a membership date. uh prior to um 2009 are in Capers one um and that's currently the largest group uh with about 61000 uh members, the next largest group uh would be capers. Uh and that's the newest group or that the Legislature created um and it's for uh membership dates of January 1st of 2015 or later so anybody that's joined Capers after January 1st of 2015 is a Capers three member just in terms of the uh average uh years of service for the for the active members of Capers. It's about 10.8 years of service and the average salary is about $45000 Cape. Pf police and fire uh member is about the same average years of service 10.9 years of service and the salary there again. the average is about $71000. uh you can see on the graphic on the left. I'm sorry uh back on that on slide six there uh just the breakdown where the school group uh is by far the largest uh not quite two-thirds or about 89000 of the 156000 our local school members. Uh the locals from local units of government about a quarter 13% of the state police and fire about 5% and then less than 1% for for the judges. Next slide please um and then as we look uh on the retirement side, uh there's 105000 uh retirees and those retirees range in age from 51 to 109 and the beneficiaries then um more than likely a surviving spouse range uh or uh it could be a dependent range in age from fifteen up to 108 the average cape. Retirement benefits is about $15500 per year about $1300 a month and about uh three fourths of the Capers retirees receive less than $2000 a month or about $24000 uh annually and is as you probably know um Capers is designed to work in conjunction with social security. and so as we talk about retirement readiness and we'll spend some more time about that. But. You know in terms of being prepared for retirement, It's a capers retirement. It's a social security benefit and then it's personal savings. Capers retirement uh K PF or police and fire retirement benefit is about $38500 per year or about 3200 per month, and we'll talk about the differences in the sort of the retirement benefit calculations that uh make up uh cause that difference between 24000 uh annually in the thirty. 8000 again as you'd expect um the retired member breakdown there on the right hand. Graphic over half are school members about 56000 again. locals are about uh fourth fifth. I guess 21% about 38000 the states of 20000, KS 5%, and then judges and those retired members. Those 105000 retired members about 85% of them uh live in Kansas and so when you. Think about the retirees and the active members um clearly the 300000 members uh really capers uh touches a lot of lives directly uh mainly within can and so about one in every ten can directly is tied to capers in some way and that doesn't count uh you know the uh a spouse or dependent children or anything like that. um so clearly uh the money that uh comes out from. And it's about a 1000000007 a year that goes out from Capers so um and that would include uh retirement benefits, disability benefits, death benefits and also uh withdrawal for those people that leave uh public service. so 1000000007 uh goes out uh almost a billion comes in directly in uh contributions from employees and employers uh and then the balance then would be that investment uh or. So on slide um uh just in terms of the size of the assets, I mentioned we're over $21000000000 now and certainly um the stock market uh lots of fluctuation and volatility these days and so we can be up and down um a fair amount from day to day, but the good thing is uh we're not day traders uh and we have that long term uh investment horizons. so we're looking at thirty or forty or 50 years and so. We're we're watching and monitoring what goes on in the stock market, but we're not um we're not dependent on that again. We're in for the long haul and we think over time uh even though those asset levels will will fluctuate um we'll we'll be okay and the average the assumed average rate of return is 7.75% so um certainly uh it can be kinda challenging in these days. but that's that's our marker that we're working for um and it's certainly. Um uh you know that uh the that $21000000000 uh is there and um again even though there'll be the ups and downs and you can see on the graphic there the downturn of the great recession uh where we're down to about a little below $10000000000 and now uh you know 12 years later, we're over $22000000000 so um. I think to maybe just uh just in terms of um uh trying to reassure people that um we have a well diversified portfolio to whether the ups and downs and about a quarter of the portfolio is in the stock. US stock market about a quarter is in the stock market and then the balance are in um on bonds um commercial debt corporate debt um timber real estate uh private equity all those other things that balance out the portfolio to sort of whether. The ups and downs on on the stock market side. As we look on slide nine, then um uh just talks about the improved uh steady funding progress in Kansas um with with keepers um just in this most recent valuation. uh we've reached 70% funding is called um the goal is really to be above 80% on your way to 100% funded um and And over the last several years um we've been in the 60% and so if you're if you're between sixty and 80%, you're kinda in that cautionary period and if you're below 60%, then um then clearly it's kind of the red flags up. the red lights are flashing and uh there needs to be some attention paid to try to right the ship. um on that slide nine, you can see uh the. The funded ratio that I was just talking about it is improved from 2012, where uh we were at 56% and now the most recent evaluation we made it up to 70% and the unfunded liability. That's just the difference between the obligation minus the assets uh get you to that unfunded liability and so again pension funding is a long term. you wanna see what direction things are going um and this slide show. Things are headed in the right direction our funded ratio, so the strength of the system is improving. It's going up on that way to eighty on our way to 100 the unfunded liability uh is going down and that's exactly what you want to happen in both of those uh areas in the that unfunded liability. It's kinda like the mortgage on the house. It's an obligation of the employers they have to pay it um we're charging them in. 7.75 um in 1993, there were some big uh retirement uh enhancements that were made and the decision was made that the employers would pay for those um and that mortgage so to speak would be paid off over the next 40 years so by 2033 that $9000000000 currently were on schedule um to have that extinguished to have that debt paid off. On slide um ten, then I guess just again uh this is important, but just always wanna reiterate that funds can never be removed from the Capers Trust Fund, except to pay the promised benefits so to pay him to our to our members and of course some systemic expenses and that's you know we're a trust fund so we have um the protection of federal law of state law of case law um uh. All of those things are lined up that no like the state could never reach into the trust Fund to take money out now. clearly they control the policy makers at the state level control the flow of money into the trust Fund, which uh they have restricted here uh over the last couple of decades are finally paying what they're supposed to um. but once the money touches the trust fund, then we've got IS protection. We've got federal law protection. We've got state law protection and they can't reach in and take it out the only way. Money can go out again of the trust fund is to pay those uh promise benefits that you all have learned. I have earned over your service. Uh Mitch. We have that well diversified portfolio um and we you know, get those employer contributions in and so with the reserve of over uh $21000000000 uh no capers retiree should ever worry about not uh that the funds would not be there to pay the promised benefits and I've. I feel very strongly about that, and I feel very confident that the resources will be there to pay the promised benefits. As we switch gears and talk a little bit about uh the different capers groups in a little more detail on slide twelve um uh the first one of course would be uh Capers one and Capers one is the traditional defined benefit plan. It's called and so that's uh a final average salary times years of service times a multiplier in this case uh 1.85% and again it's for members who affiliated with Capers before uh July 1st. Of 2009, and it's defined benefit plan because if we know those three things or if a person says well, this is what I think my final average salary will be this is how many years I think I will work um we know the multiplier we can calculate uh and give uh a fair estimate of what their what the person's retirement benefit would be under keepers. one generally it's the final that final average salary is the three um highest. Years of service um uh that's if the membership date was after July 1st of 1993 is a little different if it was uh before that person is vested after 5 years, which just means uh once a person is vested, they're entitled to a permanent lifetime benefit when they're eligible to retire and as a keepers, one member, there's three different ways to reach that normal retirement. Uh it's 85 points. so whenever a person's age and years of service gets to 85 points, they can have normal retirement. Or at age sixty-two with 10 years or age sixty-five with 1 year um the final average salary uh before 1993, then uh is the highest 4 years. and then there's uh some add ons of second annual leave that could be factored in there that could uh then impact that final average salary calculation. Uh if it's uh after that those add-ons for second annual leave um aren't aren't. It is probably the biggest change um also uh for that multiplier. uh it's 1.75% for all service prior to 2014 uh and then after that, it's the 1.85%. So there's just a couple examples there on the right um was 20 years of service to Capers one member. They had a final average salary of 40 years. uh their average their annual benefit would be $14800 a year if. Work 30 years same final average salary with 30 years of service, then that benefit would be $22200 uh a year on the next slide is we look to capers uh two um which again is still the traditional defined benefit plan final average salary years of service and and a multiplier. uh the Capers two members. Our membership dates between July 1st, 2009 and January. Of 2015, so if you join your Capers membership in that time, then you'd be a capers two member and there um the you have the multipliers 1.85% for all years of service, but the final average salary now is the five highest years of salary still vested after 5 years, But the normal retirement for Capers two member is age. sixty with 30 years of service or age sixty-five with. Years of service, both Capers Capers, two and Capers three there's provisions for early retirement uh but there's an actual reduction there um and so um uh a person can go out earlier but the reduction in that benefit. um the you go the steeper that is uh to take it into uh an actual uh reserve basis. as we look to slide fourteen, I thought I just mention there's a sub group within Capers and that's uh capers. Correctional Group, a sometimes called C 55 and Group B, sometimes called Group C sixty still the uh traditional defined benefit plan. Same benefit structures, Capers one or Capers two, depending on when the person joined the correctional group. Uh the correctional Group, a is mostly correctional officers and their supervisors uh correctional Group B are the other positions which have regular uh. Contact like food service or maintenance or correctional industries um but uh correctional officers in a uh have uh and a group B both have uh an earlier uh normal retirement date so correctional Group A officer could go out at age 55 with 10 years of service uh in the group B, it's age sixty with 10 years of service and there is. A hook there, the members uh who have worked in uh have to work in uh correctional position for the 3 years immediately preceding uh retirement uh for that, so they have to you have to retire from one of one of those groups and you can see the calculation there on the left hand side 20 years uh again, it's the $40000 salary 20 years of course, 14800 a year. And then at 30 years, it'd be uh again with that final average salary it'd be $22200 as we look to slide uh fifteen then um we're looking at Capers three, which is a cash balance uh benefit plan. It's technically still a defined benefit plan like Capers, one and two um, but it has some attributes of a defined contribution. Plan like a 401 K kind of plan and so again it's for anybody who had membership dates of January 1st or 2015 or later, but the benefit here in the cash balance plan for Capers. Three members is based on the total account balance at retirement. So it's the members contributions plus interest, which is 6% as it is in Capers one and Capers two. And then there's called employer pay credits uh where they. The employer are making uh contributions um and those paid credits uh plus interest and go into this uh notation account for this for the member. The good thing I guess that it's uh different than like for 10401 K plan is that there's guaranteed interest of 4% per year. uh plus there's potential for some dividend interest um should uh should. Keepers investments uh do well in a particular year there's opportunity for some additional dividend interest there, but also then whatever a person puts in to the Capers three plan they can never lose it. so, of course, in a 401 K plan that defined contribution plan. It's subject to the ups and downs of the market and your investment choices. And so as you get ready to retire, the markets and a big tail spin, and then, of course, it might make for kind of a rocky retirement. Capers three has a normal retirement of age, sixty with 30 years of service and age 65 with 5 years of service and again. um you can see the benefit structure is different uh then in Capers one in Capers two um with the end of career salary of about $60000. uh it assumes made some assumptions here. but the account balance and the person got ready to retire is about $140000 and so it's it's a new or it's converted into a. Time benefit in this case of about $12000 a year, the other example there on the right hand side is a 30 year Capers three member uh again in their career salary of $60000, but because the person worked ten additional years has 1010 more years of contributions, ten more years of pay credits by the employer um and the interest earnings now that account balance is $261000. It's a new and they're the annual benefit would be uh $22800. On slide sixteen is just uh a little bit more in terms of uh the cash balance plan and some of the characteristics so again it's paid uh it's like the defined benefits you know, lifetime income guaranteed interest, crediting all the assets are pulled and managed so Capers Capers two Jeepers three. It's all managed uh in the same way um and it's treated that's the actual evaluation that they're required uh. Contributions um that the employer has to pay are all calculated the same, but on those defined contribution uh features where it's kinda like the 401 K again. the values expressed during the working careers that notation account value. so they're kinda they are hypothetical accounts cuz it's all still in the big Capers Trust fund um, but we're keeping track of it individually. So once a person gets ready to um uh retire, we're able to calculate. That and then tie it um and so uh the cash balance plan the employees um shares some of the risk inflation investment and really longevity uh as compared with Capers one and Capers two where it's all on uh the employer they have all the risk. So this is capers three shares that risk between uh employers and employees. so it's. Just uh looks at that and again it just it's just kind of a graphic, but again remember contributes 6%. uh they're earning retirement credits. There's interest uh again vested uh after 5 years just like Capers one and two. so that means you've got a guaranteed benefit when you're able to retire. uh we calculate the retirement and it and it gets converted into a lifetime benefit slide in just looks at uh the police. Fire Retirement system Still a traditional defined benefit plan like Capers, one and two final salary times years of service times a multiplier, but here the public policy decision is that in terms of having a young vigorous public safety workforce and so that multiplier is 2.5% versus the 1.85% final salary is three highest of the last 5 years, and they have to uh K PF member has to. Invested until 15 years of service, but the normal retirement uh without any reduction can be age fifty with 25 years age fifty-five with 20 years or age sixty with 15 years, there is a benefit cap at 90% of final average salary. so after 36 years of service um they cannot earn any additional uh benefit uh percentage and unlike uh the other coverage, group death and disability benefits are part of this pension plan that design so disability benefits are fifty. Percent of the final average salary death benefits or the surviving spouse receives 50% of that final average salary or 100% survivor Retirement. Whichever is greater like nineteen is just uh I just mentioned it quickly. The judges retirement Traditional defined benefit plan final average salary years of service, but the multipliers three point um 5 years. Uh this plan was set up on the assumption that people would the uh. Profession towards the end of their legal career and so they have immediate vesting. They have the 85 points and they can have normal retirement age sixty-two with 10 years or age sixty-five with 1 year. their benefit is capped um 70% and you can see they're on the right hand side. final average salary of 100000 uh 10 years of service would be about a $35000 salary uh but if they worked another 10 years that's that benefit would be 70000. Dollars on slide twenty, it's just the Capers death and disability uh program and so again this is uh a program that is 100% of employer funded. So it's normally 1% of the total payroll uh contributions there have been some moratorium uh imposed and in fact there's one currently on the state side with their state uh financial difficulties, but there's uh there's enough reserves. Uh in the death and Disability Trust Fund, that's a separate trust fund um uh to adequately pay any uh necessary uh disability benefits uh and this under keeper's disability. it just means that a person is unable to perform their regular occupation for the first 24 months. and then after they've been disabled more than 24 months, then, it means they're unable to perform any occupation so any gainful employment uh and if. Aren't able to do that and they're entitled to a disability benefit. There is 180 day waiting period the benefits to about 60% of compensation at the time of disability with a maximum monthly benefit of $5000 and there's some rehabilitative programs uh to try to help of course an individual return to work without uh losing any disability benefits. And then there is a $4000 death benefit uh for all Capers member. Um uh once you retire um and it's paid uh whoever of course, the member designates could be a spouse could be uh the children could be a funeral home and that way they have the funeral home has to pay the taxes on it um and it's usually uh so but anyway, it's a choice to the person and that choice can be changed as often as the member would like or the retiree would like so that's a little bit on just the different benefit structures. uh as we look at uh the next slide, keepers 457 and the next. After that, it's like twenty-two uh Capers 457 is a voluntary savings plan. It's administered by Capers. So it's a defined contribution plan generally, it's uh the individuals so it's all employee money. It's a separate trust fund has over a $1000000000 in it again. Uh there's no way anybody else can get to. that's the individual's money that have decided to participate. um so if you're a state of can employee uh you can do that um out of. Those 1500 employees uh we have about 374 uh other capers employers that are affiliated with Capers 457 and of course, uh a lot of those other employers may have their own deferred comp program, which is great and that's the important thing I think um it's just uh you know it's your money. It's just an easy way. uh to save to have that money deducted from your uh you know every other week uh paycheck and. If you start earlier in your career, uh even a small amount can accumulate um you know to a fairly healthy nest egg by the time twenty or 30 years rolls around on slide 23, then, of course, again, just that reminder that pension benefits are just one part of the retirement income. Um I think we make the point regardless of whether persons and Capers one two or three capers and social security are not likely to be enough and so personal savings are. To cover that gap um and so additional savings, whether it's the keepers 457 to your own financial planner um or your own uh deferred compensation plan. If you're uh employer has a different one. uh that's the important thing uh so you can have uh well deserved and enjoyable uh retirement uh time once you get there on the next slide, then we're just gonna switch gears and talk uh about uh just some important information for retirement or you're getting ready to. And on Slide 25, um just a reminder um and most of this is to keep a square with the IS um but there can be no arrangements to return to work uh for any keeper's employer, not just the one you retired from before retirement or during the waiting period and depending on your age when you retire if you're sixty-two or older, um you have to set out 60 days if you're less than age 62. when you retire, you have to set out 180 days and even if you work for the state and maybe. Go work uh for a school district or the city or county. you still have to set out those appropriate days either sixty or 180 days, but once you retire and you come back to work so you're if you do come back to work for a capers participating employer, there's no earnings limitation on the retiree. The employer does have to make uh Capers covered uh the contributions uh on the first $25000 the employer has to pay the statutory rate. Is currently around 14% and then if it's over $25000 it goes to 30% um but if you go to work for a non capers participating employer so you uh you know, go to go to work for Walmart or go Dylan's or wherever you wanna go. Um there's that doesn't have any impact. you can do that the day after you retire from the state, there's no earnings limitation. and of course there's no uh. Employer contributions on select 26 We just uh remind you about of course the taxes in general uh benefits are taxable um uh for federal income tax, but not Kansas State tax because taxes uh we're paid on contributions uh during your working career um and so there's some IS rules um, of course you can uh depending on whether it's less than. 2000 or over 2000, um but uh you can make those adjustments. It's just like withholding on your paycheck. You can adjust those up and down uh anytime you want and depending on how your tax system uh where you are in terms of your taxes and we're always glad to help you with that on slide 27 and just to remind you about that uh retiree death benefit uh so the member dies. there's that one 4001 time Four-thousand-dollar benefit payable to a selected. Beneficiary uh and it's uh payable with all the monthly all the retirement benefit options, so there's different ones. Um you know joint survivor life's certain and we can talk about those but um uh but it's it's not life insurance. So there's no there is federal income taxes. There's no state income taxes again. you can designate a person in a state, a trust or funeral established. As I mentioned, uh we have to withhold again by the IS uh 20%. so um you know if you designate a funeral home, we'll pay them. They'll have to pay the taxes on it um and uh and uh and we'll go go. You know they'll go from there uh after paying the taxes. Um as we look um for the life changes. Just I guess just to remind you as you get ready to retire and. Uh you know, consider your beneficiary um always make sure you update your contract. contact information um should there be a divorce you know consider whether or not that might impact your uh your. You know beneficiary um and then there's a divorce. Sometimes the court gets involved and there's a qualified domestic relations order and so. When there's a death of course and we'll review the beneficiary with the benefits with the survivor um and help them apply for a $4000. Let's see. Still here and still doing okay. Yeah, we're still here. Okay had a little technical difficulty. I guess, but um I think that's kind of the end of my uh presentation. Hopefully you heard me through at least uh all that on the end um again keepers is here uh to serve our members. Uh there's some contact information on slide thirty um that just showed. How you can contact us through uh capers.org. Uh we have an info line you can call in. There's a toll free number or you can just email the capers@capers.org. uh my contact information uh is on the on the front uh in front of this presentation, but uh again the Capers staff is here to serve our members and we're certainly glad to do that uh and we never lose focus of that uh Mission Inn. Of uh serving our members so um I'm certainly uh glad to take any questions and hopefully uh this information has been helpful. Uh I think there'll be a way that if anybody needs copies of the presentations or certain pages, it'll be available. Great Well, thank you so much for your presentation, Allen um so as I mentioned now we'll enter into our question and answer portion of the webinar. Um thank you uh for all of the questions you submitted during the session um so the first question that I have specifically deals with the Capers one. so how do you know if you are in the eighty and out group or the eighty-five and out group right, it would it would come uh to the uh to that membership date. so uh. If uh depending on you know when the person uh joined Capers, that's that's the key. So for Capers one it goes back to July 1st of 2009. So if you join Capers before July 1st 2009, uh then uh then you'd be a capers one member. That's after that, then you'd be two or three. Make sense Um the next question is uh how is the final salary determined if before 1993 right before 1993? uh then there's it can be the highest of 4 years of service. so it's 4 years rather than three, But those individuals have the opportunity to factor in uh payouts for second annual leave and so um and and it's whichever is higher for that group but uh capers one. Who joined before July 1st 1993 uh then uh if they have sizable um payouts for second annual leave um within certain parameters um that can be factored into the final average salary. Great um if you retire to another state um say Missouri um are you taxed state taxes in Missouri? um since you've already been taxed in Kansas? uh it depends on the state that you go to and some states uh maybe stretching my memory here. but you know in terms of Texas or some of those states either that may not have uh individual income taxes or may not tax uh retirements. Uh it just depends on how that state that the person moves to. How they handle um uh retirement uh benefits and whether it's tax or not and so it just it be one of those things. I guess if a person's thinking about uh relocating to uh that might be factored into the equation of the check it to check out with that state do they tax retirement benefits from another state as income? Okay, great um and then can you kind of elaborate a little bit on uh how an individual can buy back their first year uh which would allow them to retire sooner. uh that's right um uh for those that have had quite a bit of uh service. uh there used to be a year of waiting a year waiting period, so they had to work for the state or the school district or the city or county for a year before they actually become an active member of Capers and so um uh. So a person that has the right to buy that year of service and so um in that case uh a person uh and it's on an actual basis. So it's a longer person waits the more expensive it is, but a person could either write us a check for it and it be paid for um or it can be uh the your capers contributions uh can be doubled or tripled so your normal capers contribution, let's say. Having you know $200 a month taken out for your capers, uh your 6% the capers contribution then you enter into an agreement and the calculations made and you would pay uh you know double that until that the cost of buying that year uh is extinguished or three or triple deduction or you can do it faster. But of course, then you're paying more um during that time and that's something we can. With here um again, we have to do some calculation and there's some forms of course we have to go through but uh it's certainly uh is doable and uh but it is one of those things the sooner you can do it the better the longer you awake, then because it increases that actual cost. Okay. Um you had outlined tier three and really focused on personal savings as a necessity to make it in retirement. How much would you say someone has to save enough um to retire securely right um and there's quite a bit of sort of discussion or literature a lot of material, but um I think one of the maybe the more common ones is a person has to have between 75 and 80% of their uh. In retirement, benefits and savings of their of their prior salary um to have an adequate uh retirement um and of course you have to factor in you know, health care cost. and of course you won't be uh contributing anymore towards uh capers so there'll be some savings there. You may not be paying into social security, so there'll be some savings there um, but that retirement replacement ratio that they talk about is probably about in that seventy-five to 80% uh area. Okay is the state currently paying its fair share indicators? Um I can say uh at this point, yes they are and it's been uh really in this current fiscal year uh. They've the state, which pays the employer contribution for all state employees, but all local school employees as part of state aid to education. Um they're they're finally paying that required rate and it's been roughly 25 years since they've done that. So for 25 years, the state has paid less than what our has said the difference, though that shortfall doesn't go away and it runs to the rules to that unfunded liability and we're charging that 7.75% interest so. Um so, and, in fact that $9000000000 that big number unfunded liability $9000000000 um the largest single factor of that is because the state mainly the state uh has not paid that actual required rate for over two decades. But after I guess kind of some heavy lifting and policy makers um deciding it's a priority um and this year in this current fiscal year, they're finally paying the. Actually required amount, so the answer is yes right now uh before that they were not and that gets back to where they control the flow of money into the trust fund um and so that's that's what they've done is. They've faced other budget challenges through the years Okay, and then does Capers keep up with inflation, Capers payouts to beneficiaries um well, I think in terms of those people that are still working because you assume um you know that there's salary increases overtime that there's. So somebody might go from a correctional officer, one the correctional officer to maybe a correctional supervisors are over their career that final average salary is gonna go up. Uh so the go up to the final salary will go up and that will help in that final benefit in terms of a capers retiree. though there in the current plan design, there's no automatic cost of living adjustment for retirees. so um so it's not the plan design. so it's. Funded not being paid for so whenever the the Legislature has to grant it um and unfortunately the last time they granted it was around the 2007 2008 and the person had to be retired 10 years before that. So anybody um who retired after uh 2000 or 1997, 1998, has not gotten a cost of living adjustment in their retirement so whatever they retired uh whatever their benefit. It wasn't they're retired. They're still receiving that level that amount today and so that's why it's important. um uh to have that. I think those personal savings um social security is indexed in a way with inflation and so there's some increases there over time, but Capers uh is not. When you when an employee pays into the 457 plan, do they pay taxes, then or when they retire? Um uh they're uh let's see they're uh they're paying uh taxes in uh I'm trying to make sure I got this straight. uh they're paying in uh on a deferred tax basis and so it helps uh helps at retirement. Okay is the death benefit only available for people who are retired um? $4000 death benefit is correct um it's uh that is only for retirees. There is a death benefit for active Capers members and depend on whether it's a service connected or not. but um uh there is a separate death benefit for an active Capers member uh who dies uh depending on their age and with their eligible for retirement uh but uh could. Up to 150% of the members um annual salary is paid in a in a death benefit, and there might be other ones as well. Sounds good. I've one more last question for Allen and I actually have one for Mike as well. Um so you had mentioned that Capers recovered from uh past economic turmoil um can capers survive another drop in the market uh. I would say yes again we have that Long-term investment horizon so we're um you know we're gonna be here for a long time and so we have that 50 year investment horizon. so even if there's a big downturn, then just like the one in 2008, the Great Recession, you know we've we've recovered uh from that and again having a well diversified portfolio where we're not all in the stock market uh helps buffer um whatever may have to happen there so um yes, uh. I think we can and I think uh again over the last 25 years with several ups and downs over the year uh years where our averages right around 8% return on the trust Fund Okay, and then one last question for Mike um what can public employees do to protect their pension? Well, uh talk to your representatives and you know be active with any labor organizations you have and uh you know, educate yourself. you know what what you learn tonight. share with your friends and uh you know Capers is there as Allen said. um to answer these. Questions and you know being informed and you know, setting aside personal savings in whatever shape or form that is and that's what we have to do. Great Well, Thank you, Allen and Mike um that'll do it for tonight's uh webinar um so thank you all for joining. um this webinar has been recorded and we'll circulate it to all of you in the coming days and uh I hope you all have a wonderful evening. Thank you glad to be a part of the show. Thank you. Thank you everyone. Bye.