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[Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] it will have drastic impacts on montanan's hunting and fishing access for the next 100 years and i think that is really regrettable welcome to the fourth season of mcv cast i'm erin murphy and that was dan vermillion a small business owner from livingston a former candidate and a former fish and wildlife commissioner for the state of montana we'll hear more from dan in a moment we've got a big show this week and a couple of quick notes before we get into the nitty-gritties as we record this episode our nation is still dealing with the aftermath of wednesday's violent pro-trump insurrection in washington dc given the widespread coverage of that occupation by armed terrorists inside the u.s capitol we won't spend too much time dissecting this remarkable story other than to note our congressional delegation's role in the ordeal and we'll get to that in a bit second though i am honored to continue helping to put this podcast together i am no longer the executive director of montana conservation voters as of january 1st that title belongs to my very deserving colleague whitney tony in bozeman whitney congratulations on the new role thanks so much i'm so excited as you know mcv is a critical organization and we have some of our most important days just ahead of us so i'm extremely honored to have the trust and support of our board and look forward to continuing to serve montanans in my new role well mcv is in great hands with you at the helm and with jake brown as mcv's political director who joins us from helena and that is where we'll kick things off this wild week i'd like everybody to join me in congratulating our new governor governor gianforte and lieutenant governor juris that was state senator greg hertz emceeing the inauguration of montana's new governor and lieutenant governor inside the state capitol on monday jake brown you're already hard at work with the new administration and a new land board and a new state legislature that gaveled in this week that's right murph we've been uh holed up in the capital this week as our state legislature descends into helena and begins our state's biannual legislative process every two years mcv lobbies the legislature to advocate for clean air and water and our public lands we push back against legislation that threatens those things and we support the bills that protect them it's that simple in the past we've been fortunate enough to have a friendly governor who served as a backstop for stopping bad policy but with a new governor and a new legislature this session will likely be a challenge we were also encouraged to hear that the new governor specifically mentioned public lands in his first speech we must protect our public lands conserving them and increasing access to them we must protect the rights enshrined in our constitution ultimately we do these things to protect our way of life for the next generations of montanans will he deliver on his promises we hope so no matter what governor gianforte does though you can bet that we'll be talking about it here on mcv cast on tuesday governor gianforte gave his first news conference and he made it clear his priority will be to deal with the covet 19 pandemic right out of the gate an early promise to change montana's current face mask order from former governor steve bullock and since you're going to ask about the mass mandate i fully intend to rescind the existing statewide mass mandate to combat the virus i believe providing incentives and promoting personal responsibility are more effective than imposing impractical mandates gianforte went on to say that the state will need to meet several criteria before getting rid of the mask mandate something he expects to happen in a matter of weeks and not months gianforte also signed his first executive order on tuesday he established what he calls the red tape relief advisory council to review every state agency and identify in his words excessive outdated and unnecessary regulations gianforte has spent the last few weeks filling out his cabinet and naming his top staff here are some of the names we can expect to hear more in the weeks ahead amanda caster who will be the director of the montana department of natural resources and conservation caster worked as an aide for former congressman ryan zinke and then for president trump's controversial bureau of land management chris dorrington who will be the director of the montana department of environmental quality dorington has worked for the deq since 2016 and michael freeman who will serve as gianforte's natural resources policy advisor it's important for us to note that mr freeman comes to the role as a known oil and gas industry insider who has a questionable history when it comes to protecting public lands prior to working for gianforte he served as acting deputy solicitor for water resources at the united states department of the interior whitney and jake mcv is wasting no time in reaching across the aisle to work on creating more public land in montana whitney you rallied a whole lot of support for summers beach state park in time for the most recent meeting of the montana land board that's right last month jake and i met with the senate president mark blaisdale the republican lawmaker told us he is strongly supporting the creation of summer's beach state park on the west shore of flathead lake so we went to work rounding up 194 signatures for montanans on a letter of support then we sent that letter to the land board and well on december 21st the land board unanimously approved the purchase of a 106 acre site from the slider family the cost is four hundred thousand dollars below the appraised value of the land summers beach state park will be a significant add because it will provide a rare public access point on flathead lake you can check out our letter and the folks who signed on to it in our show notes well amazing work guys and while montana conservation voters will happily work with anyone willing to work with us we are also not afraid of our important role holding all elected leaders accountable here's more from governor gianforte's inaugural address i take the oath of office today prepare to lead montana's comeback i am confident that montanans will make our comeback montana's comeback has been a theme for gianforte since he's been on the campaign trail as he takes office mcv is doubling down on our mission to ensure that all montanans can stay aware of what he and the people who work for him are doing as well as the 67th montana legislature we'll be keeping a special eye to protect our climate our environment and our public lands so this week we launched montana's pushback a new website that will serve as a clearinghouse for information about the gianforte administration and new legislature it's a new site that will change frequently but we invite you to check it out at montanabushback.org and with a donation of 25 or more you'll receive a crafty bumper sticker to sport on your water bottle or car thanks in advance for checking out our new project we're excited to continue to ensure transparency at all levels of government for all montanans now to washington dc where congress early thursday formally certified joe biden as the rightful winner of the november 3rd presidential election lawmakers got back to work only hours after pro-trump terrorists violently stormed the u.s capitol before all of that montana senator steve daines announced he would object to the certification process despite zero evidence of any voter fraud or vote stealing given senator danes lack of public comment about the ordeal i called up his office on tuesday to ask for an explanation hey this is aaron calling from billings i'm calling to ask about the senator's plans for tomorrow can you walk me through why the senator is trying to undo a fair election yes so the senator has said that he plans on objecting to the electoral trust in the integrity of the young person who answered the phone was clearly reading from a long-winded script but you get the gist clearly senator daines was trying to be both pro-trump and pro-democracy well that high wire act came crashing down after the pro-trump anti-democracy insurrection of the u.s capitol once police restored order senator dain sent a statement saying quote we must rise above the violence then to his credit he reversed course and voted to certify the election results after all montana's new at-large member of the u.s house however didn't follow suit only hours into his new job he told the right-wing radio show montana talks why he rejected american democracy during the vote certification process i absolutely will be objecting to the states electors that were able to produce those electors under questionable circumstances we have got too many i mean we've got numerous extensive credible allegations of fraud that have taken place in many states and for those states to certify those elections without addressing those allegations properly i do not feel comfortable in certifying the electors coming from those states of course congressman rosendale hasn't produced any evidence of questionable circumstances other than debunked conspiracy theories maybe the sharp criticism from montana's largest newspaper had something to do with it the billings gazette ran two scathing editorials this week on sunday they responded directly to dane's rejection of democracy quote this action senator is political garbage disguised as statementship it is beneath your office and should be beneath you and on wednesday night the paper wrote a front page editorial going after danes and rosendale they wrote what a shameful and completely self-inflicted political legacy they have earned make it right with montanans or live with wearing this low rent insurrection around your necks from this point forward no mincing words there are links to both editorials in our show notes and senator john tester meanwhile wasted no time in condemning the attacks on the capitol he tells me he was watching the proceedings from his office when the rioters broke into the house and senate chambers the election is over he said and the time for baseless objections that do nothing but undermine our constitution is over too when it comes to montana's political landscape we're already off to a pretty wild start in 2021 and this week's guest has been a part of that landscape for years dan vermillion is an angler a small business owner and a former state senate candidate dan along with his two brothers own sweetwater travel in livingston one of the most prominent fly fishing businesses in the country he also spent 12 years as a montana fish and wildlife commissioner for southwest montana and he's a long time friend of montana conservation voters so dan we're going to start this conversation with a thank you for all you do for us for montana and for our public lands and waters election day change the the map for montana and for the future of our public lands given your history of advocacy in this state what do you think the biggest challenge ahead is not just for fishing and hunting but also for small businesses like yours first of all thank you guys at mcb for all the work you do and it's uh it's been a very interesting election season and you know that public lands issue was not quite as prominent i guess i would say in 2020 as it was in 2018 um i think that's unfortunate because i think the impact on our public lands from this set of election results in november um could be pretty dramatic if you look at just going to the fish and game commission fish and wildlife commission that i was on habitat montana generated over 300 000 acres of access in the last 15 to 20 years um whether it be through conservation easements or actual fee title purchases and it is my expectation but and fear that you know this legislature in montana may very much jeopardize a lot of the public access and a lot of the public land that we have enjoyed access to over the last 16 years since brian schweitzer won election 2004 and i hope you know my sense is that there's a lot of montanans who voted for a particular candidate and they're going to find out that that candidate whether it's steve daines or greg gianforte or troy downing or boy the list goes on and on christy jacobson austin knutson when you see the land board and when people see how this unfolds over the next couple years i think public lands will once again be a really big issue in 2022 because i think that the changes that are going to occur legislatively regulatory um for our public lands whether they're state or federal will be dramatic and sadly i don't think they'll be good for hunters fishermen or wildlife enthusiasts we hear a lot of lip service from politicians about the importance of montana's small businesses what do they need to keep in mind for 2021 and beyond from your perspective as a business owner well i can tell you that you know in 2018 and even 2019 there was such a my sense was that the recreational economy the non-consent you know whether it's fishing outfitters hunting outfitters just tourism in general was really um transforming montana in really positive manner but i think in 2020 um and i'm not sure it was tourist related but i just think there were a lot more people out there and you see a lot more discussion about the recreational economy getting too big and our public lands getting crowded and i think that's more of a management issue and i think that's up to us to figure out how we go about expanding that i think as a small business that's in the tourism industry i think that uh if you look at school what's going on in the madison right now with that new set of rules they put together you know they're trying to address overcrowding on a river and the only place they know how to regulate the only group they can really regulate are outfitters and you know granted we're the only ones making a living on a public resource at least in the madison you know i think that that's going to be a challenge i think there's some pushback on unfettered growth in the recreational economy i think the other part of course is that we depend on clean water and clean air for and you know well-managed public lands for the fish and wildlife that makes a business like mine do well that makes ranchers have enough water to irrigate etc and clean water to irrigate so i think it's you know there's a lot of impacts that could be coming down the pike and i think people are going to have to be really really vigilant i wouldn't be at all surprised given greg gianforte's past history on stream access that stream access comes under the gun as well and i think that i'm hopeful that if you do see those sort of attempts that montanans will say hey that's not what we voted for and will not support that um so from a business perspective and a policy perspective i think you know the next couple years could be really tricky and that has nothing to do with you know covet and the other impacts on our business right now right and with the legislature underway dan we will be busy tracking every decision made by our state's elected and appointed leaders you mentioned some of them but what will you specifically be watching for as the legislature gets underway and as governor gianforte rolls out his first few months it what what in particular is is on your hotlist if i were and i am i mean if i'm a sportsman or i'm a person who really cares about our fish and wildlife i would be looking really carefully at the fact that um you know fwp is one of the only if not the only agency in state government that depends largely on licensed dollars not tax revenue so inevitably fwp always has a structural surplus in the front end of its license 10-year license cycle that's pretty significant and over the course so if you're at your three or four and you look at the bank accounts that fwp manages they look flush but you know that money and those license dollars they're selling they can't change those license prices again for i think the last time we did it was 2015 or 2017 so it's a few more years so they really have to manage that budget carefully because they don't get to increase their revenue at the even though their costs continue to increase so it looks like there's a fair bit of cash in there a fair bit of money in there but that's money the department will need to manage our fish and wildlife resources support our tourism economy and i think that you need to be very mindful that the legislature has historically the republican in the legislature have some of them have historically taken a look at that money and said well we could use that for other things and if you know greg gianforte is still focused on turning montana into kansas you know there's going to be revenue shortfalls and our license sales will continue to be strong because we have great fish and wildlife resources so that will be very tempting for those legislatures to neuter fwp by starting to work on their budget the other thing of course is just habitat montana and all the other opportunities that fwp has to leverage federal money whether it's pittman robertson it's johnson dingle there's all kinds of different money out there that montana uses habitat montana money to match to do access projects on behalf of the montana public and if we don't have that matching money those dollars cannot be used so that's a real problem or could be potentially a real problem the other problem of course is diversion you know if you have funds that have been allocated for fish and wildlife projects and suddenly and that's federal money that's been used for it and suddenly they divert that money into something else fwp has to pay that money back the state has to pay that money back and so if you turn a wildlife management area into something that's no longer a wildlife management area and the land was purchased with federal money and matching money the feds can claw that money back and we crossed we had this issue with the mile city tongue river railroad back in whatever year that was under brian schweitzer where the f you know the u.s fish and wildlife service said if you approve this railroad up to the tongue river coal assets you will end up having to pay us back i think it was 700 000 bucks that we've put into your hatchery for pallid sturgeon and warm water species in the lower yellowstone in mile city so you know it's complicated but there's a lot of damage to be done very quickly so let's talk about the work ahead to keep habitat montana funded at the level it deserves we recently had the former director of montana department of fish wildlife and parks on the podcast here's how martha williams described the program so habitat montana is really a remarkable program it sets aside a portion of licenses for acquisitions of interest in land so whether it's a conservation easement or a lease or buying the land outright for habitat conservation but with that what people i think those who maybe don't love it miss is it's it's set up to be a win-win it is it's voluntary so it allows many families um family ranches to stay on the land where they get some monetary help in return for conserving the habitat and also allowing access to their land so dan habitat montana is not safe even after voters approved initiatives in november to supplement its funding with tax revenue from recreational marijuana what can montanans do to make sure their representatives in the legislature fund habitat montana at the level it deserves well i think you know like for example i'll just use livingston where i ran for senate district 30 and back in 2018 that senate seat encompasses all of park county and all of sweetgrass county and folks that know montana know livingston is very different from big timber um but we're all represented by the same senator so it is up to us to make sure that john s or whomever else you know senator asp or whoever else is a republican representing districts that includes some places that have some great hunting and fishing certainly include a lot of hunters and fishermen we need to make sure our legislators know just how important afwp budget is and b how important it is to continue to fund habitat montana because montanans need more access we don't need less and as a member as a as a montana i'd much prefer to see a piece of property be managed by the state in conjunction with a private landowner that includes public access and see it sold to somebody who will never allow hunting access because that makes fwp's job a lot harder we manage elk through hunting and if we can't get people on the ground to hunt elk their populations increase and the depredation on crops and tensions between the land owners and the sportsmen and the department grow so habitat montana is so critical to give wildlife a place to be where they're not overly impacting traditional producers in whether it's jordan miles city paradise valley to the extent there's any left there the shields wherever you are in montana dan one of the toughest realities of election day was seeing the new makeup of the montana land board and some of the very questionable conservation records of the folks who now sit on that board here i'll note that montana conservation voters endorsed none of them by the way what should folks know about the land board and the decisions expected from them in 2021 for most of the time that i was on the commission the land board was tasked with approving both conservation easement donations or acquisitions and fee title acquisitions after the four republicans on the state land board blocked a conservation easement outside of glenda back in 2000 i think it was 17 i don't remember what year it was exactly but governor bullock basically looked at the statute and said hey this does fee title acquisition it does not include conservation easements so he allowed the department fwp to approve the conservation easement and essentially you know the greatest thing about that conservationism is it provides perpetual perpetual hunting access for the rest of time until the state of montana no longer has jurisdiction so that land board you know if they go back and they start saying no we're not going to approve this conservation easement we're not going to prove this fee title acquisition it will have drastic impacts on montanan's hunting and fishing access for the next 100 years and i think that is really regrettable fighting climate change is of course one of the biggest priorities for the biden administration and it's no secret that many of montana's elected leaders are skeptical of the crisis how has climate change or breakdown affected your business and what needs to happen about it at the state level in your mind well i think that for too long the climate change discussion is really focused on the impact of you know whether it be the fact that smallmouth bad mass are moving all the way up to livingston or elk no longer come out of the park until after the season because it's such a warm november when you have those sort of situations it really affects our ability to manage fish and wildlife at fwp you know i think for montanans i'm working on this elk working group right now where we're trying to recraft the montana elk plan and we started talking about climate change and it's a diverse group in a montana sense the word meaning there's landowners and they're sportsmen the issue of climate change has come up a lot and my sense is that after talking to a lot of these landowners over time is if you're a landowner you're running a farm or a ranch in montana you can see climate change and a lot of these guys are talking and the ranchers i'm on this board with are talking about changing climatic conditions they phrase it differently you know it's no longer global warming it's changing climatic conditions and i think maybe the most effective way to really focus on is just explain and continue to highlight just how dramatically it's affecting agriculture they still seem to have an incredible level of impact on our politicians and our legislative leaders perspectives um you know i guess if you think coronavirus is a hoax it's pretty hard it's gonna be hard to convince you that climate change is real we're not too different sadly they're both war and they're both affecting our state in dramatic ways and we just need to figure out ways i mean i think coronavirus people start taking it seriously when their neighbor dies and i guarantee my sense is that climate change is kind of the same thing and we just need to keep beating that drum and eventually the climate is going to teach folks that it's changed the way we used to operate is impossible i mean think about it in 1996 or seven montana had a huge snowpack that year we didn't get on the yellowstone until august 27th 2011 we had a similar snowpack we didn't get on the river until august 8th two years ago 2017 or 2018 i don't know exactly which year it was we had another huge spring runoff we were on the river on july 7th so the water is coming out faster and where that really shows up is places like on the yellowstone where in august you know you have whitefish dying because of proliferative kidney disease and while climate change did not cause pkd it certainly exacerbated its impacts on the fishery and you know elk disease cwd a lot of other factors will be affected by climate change and you know we're just gonna have to keep explaining that and focusing on that until people realize that you know it's real maybe what we need to focus on is more mitigation more adaptation because probably montana doesn't have the ability to directly impact climate change on a global scale but we still need to do our part we need to be prepared for what's coming yeah and just a note on the proliferative kidney disease uh that was an incident in 2016 that prompted governor bullock to shut down what was more than a hundred miles of the yellowstone river right i mean that that's a huge impact on businesses it was guarded the war when it was the strangest thing in the world because you could walk down the street of livingston in august and empty so you mentioned this a little bit you dedicated a dozen years of public service as a fish and wildlife commissioner any words of wisdom from your your take away on your time on that commission to the current commissioners you know i think that uh for me when you're standing outside government you're looking in you can think you know all the ways they're making mistakes and you got you say well if i was going to be if i was in there and i was managing this i'd do it differently but what i learned from fwp pretty quickly and i'm sure all of state government pretty much like this and that is that it is staffed with some of the most incredibly dedicated professionals that are in the fish and wildlife department specifically because that's their passion they've gone to school they've received the best educations on how to manage that wildlife and ultimately if you look around the world there's no other state in the country that has or any country in the world that has the wildlife resources or the fishery resources alongside a growing economy that montana does and that should be celebrated we've succeeded over time through the hard work of people like mcv in maintaining a really robust natural world while also allowing our economy to succeed and i think that as commissioners it's really important to recognize that hard work understand that we don't have good fish and wildlife resources just by doing nothing they've been intensely managed by professionals that really understand what they're doing and both the legislature and the commission should be there to provide oversight but let the professionals do their work because they are trained to do this and you know if you look around the state i'm looking out my window right now at you know 50 deer that's success for me dan vermillion is former montana fish and wildlife commissioner and one of the owners of sweetwater travel in livingston dan best of luck to you in the new year and thanks for being an mcv guest thank you very much erin whitney and uh good luck with everything the views of our guests do not necessarily reflect the views of mcv its staff or its board of directors murph we touched on the state of montana's plans to create a new state park earlier in the show senator tester on tuesday announced that the u.s forest service will acquire even more public land in montana testers successfully pushed the forest service to acquire about a hundred acres of new land near delmaux lake in the beaverhead deer lodge national forest near butte the property consists of six former mining claims and it's a important big game migration corridor and a popular spot for recreation and while the world focused on the insurrection at the u.s capitol on wednesday the bureau of land management began auctioning off drilling rights in the arctic national wildlife refuge a development corporation owned by the state of alaska submitted most of the winning bids this week which added up to only 14.4 million dollars that's a small fraction of what supporters expected the future of the sleaze sale is messy but we hope president-elect biden and his incoming interior secretary deb holland will prioritize protecting anwar as she begins the tough work of cleaning up the failed conservation legacy of donald trump god bless america we'll leave you today with music from montana musician wiley gustafson the brother of lieutenant governor kristen juris gustafson performed during governor gianforte's inauguration ceremony on monday and we think it's a good week for all americans to hear this song we'll be back next week god bless america my home sweet home god bless america my home sweet home thank you