How Do I Sign Ohio Banking Form

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somebody in the room with them uh good morning everybody um we are about uh ready to start the ohio board of building appeals um for uh monday um march 8th um we are noticing that there are four people as attendees which means that you could see what is happening online but you are not able to participate um if you are intending to participate in today's hearings um you may not have logged in correctly um if that is the case uh you can call in the number uh that was provided uh in the email sent to you by um the steer our executive secretary that way you could at least participate by phone and then maybe watch uh online okay i see mr studer and and uh mr studer is is is that mr rummel with you yes that is okay well then we got everybody i see jeff okay um i see guests are waiting to join in the lobby do we need to deal with that yet i am admitting them as we speak okay well let's we're gonna go let's go on the record then uh i'll let the record reflect uh susie you're susie's still there yes i am okay great let the record reflect it's monday march 8 2021 and the board of building appeals is convened to consider its uh agenda for today um we're not sure we have everybody uh populated for the uh first hearing on our uh agenda which is a boiler division matter so we'll move on to another division of industrial compliance matter it's case number 21 hyphen 0024 and it deals with the carroll county agricultural show complex located in carrollton again it's a division matter and the division's adjudication number is noted on the docket my understanding is that we have milton studer and ray rommel uh present on behalf of the appellant and we have jeffrey eaton who is present representing the division and the department um mr studer and mr rummel individually would you each state your full name spell your last name and then the capacity by which you're here representing um the uh the complex and we'll do the same thing with mr eaton and we'll have an oath administered and we'll begin milton studer s-t-u-d-e-r project architect thank you ray rummel r-u-u-m-m-e-l-l i'm a member of the carroll county agriculture society and chairman for the new barn complex thank you very much mr eaton good morning jeff eaton eaton chief building official for the division of industrial compliance okay if each of you would stand raise your right hand susie would you administer the oath please yes do each of you swear or affirm that the testimony you will give today will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth i do i do okay um very well um you have the floor uh this is a project that is essentially identical to one that we had before the board eight years ago it is a show complex that's essentially used a week or two a year for the carroll county fair uh what we're looking to do is to have a posted occupant load that accurate accurately reflects the maximum occupancy of the building during those two weeks of the fair opposed to the calculated load okay any questions do we need to see anything um i question mr this is paul begin um can you please explain that um just artificially changing the occupant load is not something that we like to do just so that you can get underneath the sprinkler limit or something like that so can you tell us how big the facility is um how many people you plan to have in it uh what you intend to do in it so that we have a better understanding uh ray will address that for you the proposed facility is 70 by 140 feet uh it will be a show complex we have four sets of aluminum bleachers each set has a capacity of seating approximately 65 people uh then there would be a shoulder arena in the center of that that would have the capacity of eight to ten youth and their livestock projects so we're looking at a total occupancy at any one time of 280 people and there's no uh you know when we shut the show ring up and the uh bleachers in there that's pretty well takes care of filling up the facility and that's the intended use for the uh the barn is a show facility as we use really adjacent building that is identical in size that was granted the appeal eight years ago that's how it has historically been used who's the uh responding uh fire jurisdiction the carrollton exempted village uh volunteer fire department they're located uh about a mile and a half from the facility the existing facility that was built eight years ago has an alarm smoke heat detector system in it that automatically dials them if there's an issue as well as it has a visual flashing lights as well as the audible sound if there's an issue and silco the fire protection people are also notified if there is an issue within the facility during the event is there any staff that's included and you're on any step right in here your occupancy right now is 280 without any kind of staff any staffing if so how many would that encompass that would be a judge and uh recording secretary so you're only looking at two people and there's no one that assists the miners with the show and it would they would be considered part of the one setting in the grandstand there would be no no one outside of the show arena and the uh bleacher area i would have a question for you uh you made a calculation i guess based on the seating capacity of the bleachers uh 18 inches wide to come up with a number and there are walkways around the arena and like between the bleachers and so forth i mean maybe that's the question for our building official you know uh do you have to take into account standing and waiting areas in addition to this if it's a big event the ones i've been to events it's normal to have people standing around as well carroll county is a very smallly small populated county so yeah the uh number is certainly a high number for actual occupancy and intended swarm we have never had the four aluminum sets of bleachers full full in the past and we've had that probably four sets of bleachers for the last five years and they've never filled in any of our shows or that we've ever conducted to date the purpose of the building is to replace an existing facility it's insane use just antiquated and this is to upgrade and improve it susie that was mr studer just in case you're having problems uh determining between mr rubble well uh jeff are you okay with the way they calculated their capacity i guess i'd i would recommend like we have on similar assembly requests to reduce an occupant load is to not reduce the load to an arbitrary number and then if there's any other type of future used for this facility they kind of back themselves into a corner on on the ability to use the building if it would have a higher load than 280 or whatever number they try to establish here so based on the number of egress stores they have i would recommend allowing it to be posted for what it should be posted for with the tabular values and appeal the the outcome of that occupant load which would be the sprinkler system so i'm not opposed to the request but i would recommend as mr rummel mentioned that they provide the alarm and detection throughout and not limit it to an arbitrary 280 number or whatever it is let it be what the egress will flow through the exit doors but to answer your question mr smith on the on the bleachers that 18 inch dimension is mainly for calculating how many people you can cross when you're studying in a pleasure to get to an aisle and then the width of the aisles off the grand stands but these are so small it's not an issue but as far as waiting years i wouldn't limit it to the number they want to limit it just let it be what it can be and appeal the outcome is the uh is is is fire authority on board with this you've identified who they are but are they are they comfortable with this yes they they were very happy with the the facility we have at in the existing facility and uh they have been notified a couple times when there was uh problems with the fire alarm system itself and they've responded and are very very happy with that thank you any other questions is the building heated uh it has the ability to be heated uh at this point we don't plan on it but it has the ability to be okay i guess i realize it's only used you said it's only used two weeks out of the year but uh i mean there is water on the on the site so that's not a an issue at this point there there is water available but the line is not large enough or in good enough shape to uh hook a sprinkler system to it according to the carolina exempted department uh we would have if if we had to put sprinkler system in we would have to bore under state route 9 and put a new uh water main in to that area [Music] all right okay i mean there's a water line on your side of the road right there is a water line there presently but it is not according to the street department water department it's not adequate to provide that type system all right uh i think we've already really understood where mr eaton's coming from but uh jeff anything further no sir thank you um questions of mr eaton from members of the board and if not um what's the uh mindset of the members of the board um yeah mr chair i just want to make sure we hit all of the items item number 13 is regarding the building occupant load and i i think uh per mr uh eaton's suggestion that we might actually uphold that item uh item number 15 is regarding plumbing fixtures and we haven't talked about that really at all you're right and so item 25 is only been talking about which is really the sprinkler system issue so all right um i just want to make sure that we get uh some information uh regarding the plumbing fixtures for the facility and i assume because of the increased occupant load that uh the code would require more fixtures than this currently provided mr studer that is correct this is scooter speaking we would be required if with a 50 50 split of having adding another woman's toilet facility this is jeff i would agree looking at the number of doors it would flow about a thousand people so if you use that number as an occupant load as a max then there would be additional fixtures required there are additional fixtures on site and other buildings 40 feet away yeah we don't have an issue with the number of fixtures provided are those other buildings occupied at the same time this would be yes any other questions on plumbing issues okay let's uh what are the thoughts and comments of members of the board uh mr chair this is paul being i would be supportive of a variance uh with some conditions for a uh fire alarm system i i agree mr chair and maybe a letter and no objection for the fire official right i was thinking that chip yes most definitely the letter from the fire official and i would support the variance as to the sprinkler system but i i agree with mr eaton's point that we should go with the tap with the tabular calculation of occupancy and not artificially set it and brad yeah well i agree i would go for the variance and i guess for both of those items enough 15 and 25 and uphold the 13 which is the occupant load and it's used two weeks a year so i don't think it's a big deal about the plumbing so i would support a variance for those two items with the conditions likewise um paul do you need any time uh let me take a moment to post some conditions up on the screen um how to get them up there yep mr studer um can you and mr rommel see those oh nobody can see them yet okay i did are you doing song for a minute yeah yeah you saw them for a second too yeah you actually had it on screen the problem is is then i can't see them we want me to read them all right can everybody see them i can't yes okay for those of you just watching online it will be about a 10 or 15 second delay but i will start reading it and this is for item number uh 25 on adjudication order variance is conditioned upon the following number one an alternate fire alarm system shall be installed and maintained comprising of a remote enunciator at a location satisfactory to the building and fire officials system smoke detectors with integral heat detectors throughout the entire structure audible visual devices throughout the entire structure and pull stations and all identified means of egress number two the ultimate fire alarm system shall be required to be off-premise monitored in a manner approved pursuant to obc-901.6 number three the ultimate fire alarm system and off-premise monitoring shall be considered required systems and listed as such on the certificate of occupancy by the building official number four the alternate fire alarm system and off-premise monitoring shall be maintained as required systems utilizing the ohio fire code and adopted nfpa standards number five portable fire extinguisher shall be installed according to the provisions of obc 901 r 906 into the satisfaction of the fire official uh number six the occupant load shall be determined and posted to the satisfaction of the building official number seven this variance is granted based on the use construction occupant load building area and level of activity identified on the approved construction documents including the maintenance of all building systems and any conditions required here in and number eight a letter of no objection shall be submitted by the fire official through the board of bullying appeals and the chief voting official before a construction permit is issued okay someone might need to mute i hear background noise it's gonna be tough for our court reporter to take that down all right well i just i think this mr mr stewart just muted but you have any mr scooter any uh any questions or comments with regard to those proposed objectives no we don't are they satisfactory yes sir thank you very much and jeff the satisfactory to us as well thank you very well i'd entertain a motion then uh yes mr chair uh for ohio board of building appeals case number 21-0024 the appellant is carroll county agricultural society for the premises carroll county agricultural society show complex at 106 kensington road carrollton ohio 44 615. the appellate is jeffrey eaton building official bureau of building code compliance for the state of ohio and adjudication order number two zero two one zero two zero two two one uh i move that the variance for granted subject to the conditions previously written record uh and noting that uh item number uh 13 is uh upheld uh and also noting the no objection of the building official okay so that portion of the adjudication order uh item 13 has been upheld the rest is uh constitutes uh relief from the adjudication order all right that motions i think's been well stated is our second second mr chair all those in favor signify by saying aye aye any opposed okay gentlemen uh the variance is granted on those terms and conditions best of luck thank you very much thank you all right um so i got a i got a back channel note from susan that indicates um that we may have parties let's uh so we have what we have let's see here what so okay so we do have mr glover here okay good and we have and we have uh so are we are we ready for the first case i believe everyone is here i believe so okay good very good okay so we're going to move to the first case which was a a boiler division matter and it's uh 8 30 was set on our docket note the time is about 8 56 we went out of order uh it's case number 21 hyphen zero zero two two uh and it deals with the and i don't know if you pronounced as idios or just ineos pigments usa located in inc that is located in ashtabula and the relevant adjudication order is noted on the docket let's have an introduction of the parties beginning with the appellate representative state your full name do this individually if you would so we don't talk over each other if you're not together which can be sort of a crapshoot i know but let's have an introduction of each of the representatives for the appellant state your full name spell your last name and then the capacity by which you're here representing the appellant we'll do the same thing um uh with the apple ease and uh we'll have an oath administered and we'll begin all right i'll start this is randy searson s-e-a-r-s-o-n i uh i work for neos pigments as the reliability superintendent so i'm in charge of the inspection program um and on the call with me will be tom with tanzania j m sinowski okay um and i don't know if susie if you have the uh docket or the presenter list but it's uh s o w i n s k i uh james and latanzi is l-a-w-t-a-n-z-i-e first name thomas um a mystery mr eden is he gonna participate in this at all or just mr share here no i'm just uh observing john okay gotcha you're here in a different capacity i got you um mr yes this is john shire spell s-h-a-r-i-e-r chief boiler inspector division industrial compliance okay and is uh is aaron johnston uh going to uh participate in the hearing er are you going to participate or just listen no i'm just going to observe if something comes up i can certainly jump in okay very good then mr searson mr swansky uh mr latanzi and mr schar would you please stand raise your right hand um well let me let me say we did have initially it looked like maybe josh monroe from the attorney general's office was going to participate is that's not the case correct that's correct mr glover is here he may testify as well though you might want to read him as well mr glover would you state your full name spell your last name he's muted you're muted bill my name is william glover g-l-o-v like in victor e-r okay beat now if the then the five of you would stand raise your right hand susie would you administer the oath yes do each of you swear or affirm the testimony you will give today will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth i do i do we don't get many uh uh boiler appeals but um i assume we would stay with the same game plan here unless my colleagues think otherwise and that would be to defer to mr searson at this point in time agreed okay yeah okay mr searson you have the floor all right thank you um yeah we're here today to talk about a pressure vessel that i operate at our planet fb 719 which is an off quality tank for our process uh a year or so ago we were doing a routine inspection on the tank uh part of our time based inspection program and we identified that although the tank's been in service for 30 plus years built in 1988 um and raided on the drawings for uh being a pressure vessel we never uh we never fully got it uh um stamped and or registered with the national board so it was fabricated in accordance with 1986 edition in 1987 edition of the asthma blue and pressure vessel um but we never uh or the original company never followed through and got it actually a national board stamp so once we identified that we had an issue with the stamp we uh we self-reported the issue and i started looking at options on how to uh how to address the situation one of those options was to a contact equity engineering group who has their own rsam certification and does a lot of consulting work for us as well to see if they could perform a suitability for service assessment using the procedures ap 5 10 paragraph 7.7 evaluation of the equipment with documentation to try to get some technical basis for continuing operation um they completed that assessment and at the end of their assessment came back with a 148 psig rating with a full vacuum at 285 fahrenheit they did require us to go in and and do an internal inspection so we de-inventoried the vessel went inside did a full 510 inspection looked at all the welds that they had questions during their analysis on and needed verification we did verify that all of those welds met the original requirements for that suitability for service assessment we then proceeded and completed a hydro which is also required for that suitability for service assessment and we passed that high drill um what we're trying to do is is apply for a state special that allows us to put a placard on that vessel and continue to operate that tank um part of the information i pushed through to the group i got some information mr glover helped and mr shire helped as well but we ended up getting in touch with halverson um and jim muessel who uh was on the original tank drawing back in 1988 he was able to supply his mtr's for the shell mtr's for the head the original weld procedure used the pl that they listed as well in the original bid package all which uh clearly indicate to build it and test it in accordance with the code but for again a reason unbeknown to us is uh they also requested not to stamp it so um that is why we're here if you have any questions i guess ask any any questions to mr searson at this point i i guess i'm not sure why you're here if you meet the standards well they didn't get the symbol stamp right yeah correct i only know this because back in the late 80s early 90s i did some legal work for the national board of oil and pressure vessel inspectors it's a neat organization this is john shire chief boiler inspector um by code we're not allowed to allow them to put an asme code stamp on the boiler ohio special that code you have to present everything before the cust vessel is built so that an inspector can look at it so what we would have to do to allow them to use the vessel was to grant them and variants right in other words they're reinventing the wheel here really i mean they didn't go through the process timely at the time they didn't they didn't certify they met asme standards to the national board and so it's an after the fact uh measure um does that make sense brad yeah uh i yeah i see that way okay but you know within their report like you know looking at this report who this e squared g maybe that's the company that they hired to investigate the uh the tank and they they said certain welds don't meet the requirements am i reading that right i guess this is to mr uh searson yeah they they identified a handful welds from the drawing that were undersized for the suitability of service analysis and then they provided what the requirements for those welds needed to be to meet the inspection so we we did the internal um our unit inspector went inside and he verified that all the welds were in indeed oversized and met the requirements of that suitability for service analysis so they said they on paper did not meet it but when we did an actual field assessment we identified that they were correct and suitable any other question any any questions mr shire at this point yeah my only question to mr shire is if if uh he has any concerns or sees any reason that he would object to a variance for this john shire chief boiler inspector uh no we've uh we've been in contact uh both at the plant and through emails we've requested and received uh the right documentation that satisfies us that the vessel was built asme section 8 division 1 that the correct welding procedures material everything except for the stamp itself seems to be in place they just they just didn't uh stamp the vessel with the code stamp and they did not register it with the national board that was you know the reason you know that we're here uh that they presented the right documentation that uh we're okay with the variance and so thank you yeah and self report yeah and then uh thanks for being so helpful uh carl uh but i do have have a question for you just to make sure that we are okay in our jurisdiction here because this is a request uh for an appeal from an uh item of the ohio administrative code um all right i don't know the answer to that but i thought about that now we are going to record uh aaron you still on the phone behind the wall there i am thoughts on mr beagan's question yeah well i think it's got a clear basis in the ohio revised code so the fact that the administrative code refers to the granting of a variance through this board i think you're in fine legal shape to make a variance even though it's based almost primarily on the administrative code see we can't even stop them um i i think i think aaron's right i think we have the authority in the jurisdiction to move forward uh that being said mr sharon give you an opportunity to weigh in on that john shire chief borland specter yeah i totally agree that we do have the ability to do that okay as an aside uh mr chairman there we've also got precedence we've done this uh at least three times that i can find in the last decade that a uh a stamping variant has been granted by pva so there is some precedent there as well okay um chip nail brad i'm fine with it colonel yeah i'm good with it okay ship's muted ship's still muted no i'm fine with it okay um so is it with there's no condition right is there a condition uh mr shire any anything to attach to this variance other than the sort of retroactive uh uh validity of the of the boiler no there's there's no additional requirements okay i would entertain a motion then okay um one second here i just want to make sure do you want me to read it paul no i just wanted to make sure that i uh get noted the state special certification is as part of it that's all wow um for uh board of building appeals case number uh 21-0022 the appellant is randy searson for the premises i-n-e-o-s pigments usa inc at 1704 state road ashtabula ohio four four zero zero four the peli is uh jeffrey eaton uh superintendent uh division of industrial compliance bureau of operations and maintenance boiler section uh for adjudication order number two one dash a o-zero zero zero four uh i move uh to grant the variance uh providing a uh state special certification uh for this pressure vessel uh and noting the no objection of the other division boiler inspector sorry okay that motion's been made there is some construction going on in north bank so uh in bobrovsky's unit two floors above so sorry about that i may put my earbuds in motion's been made is there a second second mr chair all those in favor signify by saying aye aye any any opposed uh all right the variance is granted uh gentlemen uh without condition thank you very much thank you yeah thank you thank you i got to tell you guys when i represented the board they took the national board they took their their board of trustee meetings and i was in hawaii new orleans halifax i can't remember where else they were pretty nice and as the company's council during those times those are pretty nice boondoggles to be honest with you um okay um do we need a break usually when i say that i i ask neil i am going to grab a cup of coffee though well i think i could call the case while you do that all right um uh okay uh this is a miami county uh building authority jurisdictional matter uh or a matter and it's case number 21. oh susie are you okay by the way yes i'm good thank you great thank you uh case number 21 hyphen zero zero two three and it deals with the premises um uh known as i you know i hope everybody's here on this one uh premise is located at 79 11 peters road in tip city and miami county building authority's jurisdiction is noted uh on the docket i may be muting here every once in a while um let's have an introduction to the parties uh is mr uh is cale jacobs here president yes i'm here okay will anybody be appearing with you no no and is mr england on i didn't see that yeah rob's here okay great rob's on okay uh very good um gentlemen would you each of you stand raise your right hand and would uh susie would you administer an oath please yeah do any of you swear or assume that the testimony you will give today will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth i do okay um yeah mr jacobs you you have the floor and i'm going to mute it alrighty interrupt we're still waiting on neil to return he must have had to brew it again i apologize i'm i'm in a high rise and two floors above they're uh jackhammering the floor to replace it and they did tell us our building manager said monday there could be some noise so and it started right you know the contractors aren't allowed in here to start working till 9. there's neil that's the irish coffee coming oh you could um all right mr jacobs you have the floor all right good morning uh this is a uh 9990 square foot building primarily s1 small portion of business it's located on peters road as we've stated company is called associated hydro excavating and they provide hydro excavating services for miller pipeline which is associated with veteran gas all over i should say all over the state but all over the area for the most part and this is going to be their new facility uh they're they have eight back trucks currently we have nine bays in this building and um they would like to uh have a small office up front they have one part-time hourly employee and then a mezzanine on top of that uh about 1100 square foot 1200 foot mezzanine and um we have a no continuous occupancy um 9 600 square foot 19 people max and three people in the business area and um let's see they they do not provide any repairs in this facility uh they do do a little truck maintenance uh one of the issues that they have in their trucks um on the boom and is between the boom and the nozzle they have a rubber gasket that wears out repeatedly so they'd like to be able to back these trucks in and turn the boom out away from the truck so that they can service these replace these rubber gaskets the firewall would then limit two more bays not have the ability to do that or greatly restrict that don't have any extra room our bays are only four foot off the exterior walls as they are so we don't have a lot of extra room and that's um that's about it uh you want to tell us what why what you need the variance for and and what the hardships are okay um well like i say another variance is is for a smoker excuse me a sprinkler system requirement um they would like to uh eliminate that um and like say part of it is because of the boom operation that they have that will limit their capacity to work there um we have been in contact with the tip city fire department and um have a letter uh from them um in their recommendations so for so on um and um like i say mr greer uh is fully on board with those recommendations made by the fire department and um um the the estimated cost uh for the projects four hundred thousand nine hundred fifty six dollars the firewall estimated cost is twenty two thousand and um uh contractors quote on the services uh recommended by the fire department is about fourteen thousand four hundred dollars we have um it's one building on a 15 acre site we have approximately uh 70 feet clearance all the way around the building at this point time there's no future plans for any additions or more buildings on the site this this building will house their needs that they have [Music] any any questions of mr jacobs before we uh hear from mr england i i have a quick question you mentioned the firewall are you proposing a firewall somewhere in the facility no that was what was was talked about through the building department to be able to have that ability that we could separate but we would have then have to eliminate the measurements okay okay so so let me ask a question is water available and and can you do a sprinkler system there um no as per the tip city fire department uh the water is not available they're they're um that there was not due to a lack of availability for available water for a suppression system that's coming directly from their letter from assistant chief david stock do we have a copy of their letter let me go back to it susan do we have that under the support document yeah but you know the i think the question is deeper than that so obviously when you're engineering this building here and you see that it requires a sprinkler system didn't the building owner or any of the engineering team looking to see if there was other than relying on you know if somebody told the when you get a letter from the fire official somebody tells the fire official hey there's no water here so he just echoes in his letter hey there's no water here so i would support it that doesn't necessarily to me provide evidence that there's no water there do you understand what i'm saying did anybody look in to see if there's water at the street yeah there isn't there there's no water there in the area yeah no there's no water even probably at least a quarter mile from water let's hear from mr england hi this is rob you you have the floor yeah so originally when this was brought to us we noticed that obviously it was used for commercial vehicles over 10 000 pounds um and we just made them aware that it would need a sprinkler system in the building i'm not sure there's water down ther or not i don't believe there is so they've chosen to pursue an alternative method i suppose and what's and what's what's the building department's uh comfort level with that well we would prefer obviously the building to be sprinkled but i'm not sure giving the area that this building's in that they have that capability um to sprinkle a building to be honest however we're still telling them that they need to follow with obc 902 903.2.9 which says commercial vehicles over 10 to 10 000 pounds need to sprinkle the building and i believe we also mentioned kale didn't we talk about firewalls in that building to separate it into areas under 5000 square feet um i believe my plane's examiner had talked about that yes that was that was one option that that we had candace and i talked about and that's where that came about there is a gigantic shipping facility just down the road from here is that building that sprinkler um i'm not sure that is in montgomery county um we stopped at lightner road right there so the building on the other side over there i i couldn't type it sprinkle or not to be honest that's not our jurisdiction hey paul there are fire hydrants at that corner yeah they don't go i didn't see them north of peters road so mr england is the south side of lightner road a different county where the miller yep that is montgomery county yeah we have everything north of lightner and montgomery county line road well there must be one how do they get water for the building they will well for this bill yes for the for the plumbing yes we will have a well i guess theoretically you could have a storage tank with a pump to provide water for the sprinklers i mean normally we is a hardship we'd say okay what's the cost to do that well i don't know right off hand but it's got to be hey probably a hundred thousand dollars i would imagine do not i don't know normally they'd have a contract or somebody provide that information you know do an estimate well here here's here's here's the thing this is paul begin um not that we wouldn't be supportive of a variance it at this point it doesn't seem like we necessarily have all the information that we are looking for right the building officials saying yeah i don't think there's water there um and and nobody actually saying hey here's a letter from the county water department saying that there is no water that's available there here is a letter from a sprinkler contractor showing how much it would cost for us to extend a water line down to the closest water source or install a pump with a tank in this facility those are the kind of things that we normally like to see so that we can establish some kind of hardship um it seems like hey i don't want to put a sprinkler system in here i don't want to put a firewall in here so give us a variance um in order for us to change the law which is what we were asking us to do we have to have a pretty darn good reason to do it right you have you know how what is it 11 000 square feet how many square feet is this yeah approximately 11 000. yeah so it's it's twice as big as any other building that we would allow to have without a sprinkler system right you have vehicles in here that are full of fuel um you know this is a dangerous thing that you're asking us to do you said there's 19 or 20 people that are in there you know the fire department it's it's not that close so you know it's it's one of those things this is a safety issue and we need to have some really good reasons for it it doesn't seem like at least from my point of view that we have enough information well the fire department has an interesting statement in their letter the last bullet point and it says the business acknowledges and takes on risks associated with not installing a suppression system and that the risks that they are taking could be catastrophic in an event of a fire yeah department may not have capabilities to extinguish the fire due to lack of nearby hydrants that's good well that's yeah that's that's hardly an endorsement that sounds pretty scary one of the what mr beagan is suggesting is that maybe we kick this out get a little more information our next hearing would be the 29th of march presumably we could accommodate you then uh if if that was something you wanted to entertain you know our i got this pounding sorry about that the jackhammers or whatever but um uh obviously we want to make an informed decision and it's like mr beagan said if we're going to grant relief from the building and or fire codes you know we want to have the information available that's not as speculative as maybe it's been presented today but i'll let you uh have some comments on that uh and neil chip brad what are your thoughts on a continuance if we get that far i agree with paul i don't think we have enough information to make a role in here i would concur i'd like to see the fire department at the next meeting i'll get them here okay yes we'd like to request a continuance okay we will provide more information for you yeah i think that makes sense all right i'll uh i'll mute for a second but i'll entertain a motion to continue uh mr chair this is chip welch let me pull up the case number uh i would move to continue case number two 21-0023 all right motion to continue has been uh made who seconded that neil thank you uh all those in favor signify by saying aye aye any opposed okay uh mr jacobs mr england the matter will be continued and and mr jacobs if you want it set down for the end of the month on the 29th would you get a hold of mrs steer susan yes i will yes i will thank you very much thank you okay thank you guys okay it's 9 29. um i know mr schultz is here um and uh mr eaton was here but i understood from susan that the other two presenters or potential presenters for the appellant may not be here leah magyari and michael carothers mr schultz what is the status of them they both should be logging on at any time um michael is the was the uh prior the architect for the project for rvc architects i just had michael be involved just in case you won't need any history of the project although i'm i'm very well aware of the history of the project leah madrid's how to pronounce her last name she is the executive director of the dairy bar and she was just one to be there in case she had a question about operations for her but she was just wanting to be uh she just wanted to be there to experience it and see how the whole process worked if they're not on in a minute i can handle the whole thing okay we'll take that i believe i can we'll take a short recess it's only 9 30 so just we'll come back thanks okay that sounds good thank you okay uh good morning um whoever just entered the meeting by phone could you please identify yourself this is the t michael carruthers oh thank you michael the board will be back in a moment and they'll start all right for whatever reason the my sound on my phone isn't working so i i can hear you just fine okay that's great thanks all right thank you uh carl mr carruthers is on by phone okay and madrid we don't know yet right correct i i did a request to join but haven't could be uh there are three attendees so possibly um she are here watching well chip and and uh neil are absent right now anyways and uh paul went behind screen too so we'll wait a couple seconds okay mr i am this is paul i am here whenever you want to start i just i keep my screen on so that i can keep the notice up for everybody else gotcha yeah well we're still waiting on neil and chip sorry i'm here [Music] so [Music] so we have miss madrid too right okay looking at neil's office it's like everybody looking to wait for like somebody to get back on stage there you go okay susie are you with us i'm here yes i'm here okay and again i apologize i've got hammering going on two floors above me so we'll try to get through this and then i'll mute uh let the record reflect this is a 930 case it's 936 it's a division of industrial compliance matter it's case number 16 hyphen zero zero six one and it deals with the premises known as the dairy barn located in athens uh strike that that's like that this is a yes no i apologize this is a 10 a.m case is it at 10 a.m we're doing the 10 a.m case is that right it's a 9 30 case the 10 a.m was continued gotcha so we're doing so we're doing the division of industrial compliance case and um this is an extension request uh so it's an unusual appeal in that sense but uh any event it does deal with the dairy barn located in athens and the divisions uh uh would that be the adjudication number jeff or would that be the variance or the extension order which number was that mr chair what number it's a 2016 number well that doesn't matter if it's not a 10 digit number it would be the uh bba case number any event let's have an introduction to the parties mr schultz and then we'll do miss madrid then we'll do mr carruthers as that's the way they appear on my presenter sheet we'll do mr eaton suzie will administer an oath and we'll get started so good morning this is richard schultz s-h-u-l-t-z i am um an architect and i am a board member at the dairy barn and my dog is barking let's see if i can quiet him down no problem miss madrid here yes and i am leah madri m-a-g-y-a-r-y and i'm the executive director of the dairy barn art center okay and mr carruthers this is uh t michael carruthers i'm with rvc architects and i was the original architect that stamped the drawings to get the the original variants back in 2016. thank you and mr eden jeff eaton e.a.t.o.n chief building official for the division of industrial compliance okay it's the four of you that have entered your appearances would you please stand raise your right hand and susie would you administer it do each of you swear or affirm that the testimony you will give today will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth i do i do okay i think mr schultz you will let you have the floor i mean you're presenting this for an extension request and again because of some construction noise where i'm at i'm going to mute okay um so i was i've been a board member for over 12 years i was the chair of the building committee when rbc architects designed and we constructed this addition obviously at that time we didn't have sufficient water capacity provided by the city michael um went to the board of building appeals and was successful getting an extension from the requirement of a sprinkler system for five years uh the time is is up this month i've been in contact with jessica edine i believe it's her last name she's the city engineer about the possibility of getting a water line on dairy lane she said the city is in the process of developing a sewer or upgrade project and they're also entertaining an alternate to add a 12-inch water line city council won't give approval for the water line until it's it's designed and estimated which will be sometime in august um if the city's success successful in funding this they plan on bidding it out sometime in the fall of two thousand i anticipate you know if they're successful and they can award that alternate it would take a number of months to get under contract and i really haven't asked the city how long the construction time would be but i imagine you know it could be upwards of a year um so but if if we do get a 12 inch water line and we proceed with a sprinkler system you know the time to design it on the dairy barn side and install it uh i think a five-year extension would be beneficial for us all right that's a 60-month request questions of mr schulzer for that matter any of the parties including jeff i just had a quick question i was trying to look up the old case information was there any conditions that went along with that like if they were assuming the water was going to be provided they probably didn't opt for the alternate system as far as firearm detection so my only question would be if the city if the bids came in too high and they weren't going to provide water if that fire alarm detection was not a condition in 2016 maybe that's a caveat that if the city decides not to move forward with the water project that they had the detection and alarm systems i'm just kind of throwing that out there mr schultz you want to comment it is yes there was a condition and we do have a a full uh approved fire alarm system system that is monitored uh so that's already in place jim thank you yeah i have no issues with the extension then thank you comments members of the board or your sentiments i think i'm okay with the extension i don't know that i'm willing to go out five years um that exceeds your tenure on the board as long as that original condition number two is extended into the into the extension because that would shorten the five year period i believe [Music] yeah mr chair i mean i we did have uh as a condition of the previous variants is adding a smoke and heat detection to the existing uh fire alarm system so i assume that work has been completed already we also did limit the occupancy uh to the uh main gallery of 250 persons as a condition of our previous uh thing and and i think i would probably be in agreement uh with chip that uh you know i would say 36 i would even go down to 24 but i'd go up to 36 months and if it's not going to be if it's not going to be happening right i don't want to keep coming every five years and go this thing out as mr eaton said i'd rather have a permanent variance set in place that has additional life safety provisions in it then kicking this thing can't down the road continuously so uh that's why i i would be more supportive of extension for a shorter period of time let me ask you yeah let me just ask mr eaton that question uh what would the division's thoughts be on how far out to kick this what's your comfort level i'm comfortable with three years but those with those same stipulations being applied as far as the occupant load and the required systems yeah oh sorry go ahead brad yeah i mean three years is fine i mean we paul we you're thinking about adding more conditions that if they can't get to waterline in five three years then something else kicks in well i mean they would have to come back before us at that point in time so that's kind of it seems like there's water coming down the road uh and it is uh they'll know you know within 12 months 24 months or so you know 12 months they'll have some idea whether or not the line's going within 24 months they'll be able to get their engineering and their estimates and council to approve or not approve on it so that's what i'm saying they'll know if they're going to have water if they're not going to have water then we need to come back and take a look at it and put together a a larger uh more robust system um you know i think we have a fire alarm in place you know are there other things that we need to do and take a look at i don't know without getting more deeply into the case file mr schultz uh you know the ask is five years it looks like that may be a heavy ask with some of the members of the board on behalf of the appellant can you live with three um i can live with three i would ask leah how she feels about it yeah absolutely i think we can live with three i would say that it's going to take the dairy barn sometimes to be able to design and install a sprinkler system so um depending on what we find out when we do find out something from from the city we'll have to see what kind of a time time crunch that would be on our end but i think we can certainly shoot for for three years it's better than nothing well i i think just to echo mr beagan's point i think the idea is within three years it we're going to know whether or not we can fish or cut bait with respect to the sprinkler system i mean i i don't want to speak for the board but i think if water is in is definitively in process in terms of the city has approved it assigned the money or the funds to it and it's a matter of you know you guys tapping into it and designing a sprinkler system then we know okay we need a another two year extension because of the the practicalities of installing the water lines and sprinkler system but if in three years the city's made no progress on getting water down your road then i think we're kind of in the position of we need to abandon the spr nkler idea and determine if any other measures need to be taken as an alternative and basically for you guys of of the burden of having to come back here at that point i mean it really is a fisher cup bait situation and not because of you guys but because of the city i mean it's not none of this is under anybody's control here so that's just my sense okay and i think so uh uh brad is comfort level at 36 months then yeah okay and and i guess i didn't hear paul's response to your question as to whether there was going to be an additive condition or two no i don't think there's an added condition i i would say we need to res you know previously we had required uh smoke and heat detection devices added to the fire alarm system so i assume that those are already installed um so i uh and we had limited occupancy in which mr ian says he would like to keep that maintained so i think we restate those conditions as part of the extension so i'm a little reluctant to try to navigate to see the order but is our because i don't want to knock myself off here but would are we extending this to a date certain uh 36 months from the date of our order or 36 months from the date of the expiration of the prior work i think those are different or said this way when when does this when what's the expiration date mr schultz if you know before mr egypt i i believe it's in march it might be mark susan has i don't have the file i should have it in front of me but susan has that so our our previous one was certified on april 4 2016. april 4th okay so so the extension will be 36 months from that date right right okay and uh so mr chair i do need to run for a second if you if you wouldn't mind uh holding on um right i'll be back in a moment we'll take a short break thanks hey susan i sent you an email but did you say 10 o'clock was continued correct i replied uh it is continued until uh march 29th okay so this is our last here okay thank you susie off record okay foreign uh i've got an appointment for um all right sorry mr chair okay what'd you do make a quick appearance at the zoning here yes right this virtual uh thing makes it a little bit easier to to show up at two different places at the same time okay chip's on the phone so okay wait a second oh he says go okay um very good then um susie are we are you there yes i am i'm back on okay let's go back on the record who wants to move to extend for 36 months uh i'm going to throw up some conditions here mr chair okay um or let me let me read them and then we'll i'll ask uh if we need to have um have it put up on the screen how does that sound um this let me throw myself up here this variance is conditioned on the following uh number one the provisions of the variants shall be extended for an additional 36 months from the date of the expiration of the previous order number two the installed fire alarm detection and notification system shall be maintained as a required system uh number three the occupant load shall be limited to a maximum of 250 persons in the first floor main gallery space mr schultz will you hear those yeah i heard those thank you okay and mr eden yes sir those are fine thank you okay i would entertain a motion now and uh here's what i'd like to do mr chair uh maybe ask my other board members if we think we need to get uh another letter uh from the fire official or was maybe i missed was their testimony that they talked to the fire official the fire officials okay with extending the variants no i i did not talk with the fire chief in athens about this um i'm happy to you know talk to chief reimer and get a letter from him if you'd like that probably couldn't hurt to update the file but uh thoughts no i i think that would be a good idea because i think this is a new fire chief since 2016 if memory serves me correct so it wouldn't hurt to bring him into the loop and make sure he's all right with it i obviously our experience with him in previous hearings he's pretty reasonable person so so do you want to add that as a condition i can here's the only thing so normally we have a condition uh we need that letter before either a construction permit is issued or a certificate of eye experience issue is issued so we have both of those so um how do we do we establish just to put in as a date certain that we get that letter do we make it a a letter of no objection or a letter of acknowledgement of receipt of this i think the last communication i think the latter isn't the objective here to make sure the fire department's on board or at least is uh on notice well here's here's what i here's what i would like to say i mean our previous time that we um had granted the variance we actually had a no objection from the fire official right um what if the fire official says no i i don't think this water's ever going to get here i don't want to wait another three years here's what i want to do i think we owe it to him to allow him to do that other than just tell him hey we granted a variance you have to live with it personally i mean i'd i'd you know if if the rest of the board feels otherwise let me know i think that's a good idea no no objection well then that's all right so that's the condition then that the uh the extension uh up to 36 months is conditioned upon and a supplemental letter of no objection from the fire official would that be the way you'd work um yeah i'm just trying to figure out it's the when right um do we say hey we need that within uh you know a couple weeks or or let's let's ask jeff jeff what would i mean is there a trigger here is there something the division would be concerned about the only concern i have thank you is um not that he would but what if he's not comfortable with the conditions and once x y and z above and beyond what previous stipulations were already there what does that put the owner in oh and us then i think they'll have to come back here which is kind of what we want right i mean and and that's why why we're limited the extension right saying okay we'll give you a little bit more time to work through um at at some point maybe there is no water or we're never going to get and we need to make it safer i think the same thing with the fire official has to be able i'm on board with that as well too well that's why i asked jeff about the trigger though what brings it back in front of us is it automatic can we do i'm sorry mr chair can we do the uh the 15 days of reconsidering the case maybe put a clock on that yeah let me ask sue let me ask susan then uh at what what point did they would the appellant have the ability to come back before if that's what you're asking yeah okay then you vote on the reconsideration within that within that time period so our hearings aren't until the 20 years so i see if you can reply back within that period of time then the variance is good if he has any objections within that 15 days then we know we have to come back right right angry okay makes sense so with that mr chair i would add a condition number four that states a letter of no objection regarding the variance extension shall be submitted by the fire official to the board of building appeals and the chief building official within 15 days of the date of this order mr schultz mr schultz are you comfortable with that i'm comfortable with that i just um yeah i haven't had a dialogue with the chief about this but i'm comfortable 15 days to get a letter and get it back to you know i think will work and the reason for that mr schultz is that we're just trying to preserve your right to reconsideration it's not that we want to make it that quick we'd be open to doing it but after that 15 days then you have to would have to appeal again before us so we're trying to just keep the case open for reconsideration right that's what needs to happen that's all we're trying to do okay i understand that that's good and you're fine with it jeff correct yes sir thank you your proposal actually okay um i would entertain a motion uh okay hold on a moment of course i'm looking at the old case file so i don't have all the appellate appellant information like i had previously so mr carruthers if you're still there i always feel bad when we swear someone in and they don't get to say anything is there anything you want to tell us no i i completely agree with everything you've said and i'm good with it you're now on the record thank you all right all right so let let me give this uh a shot here um board building appeals case number uh 16-0061 uh for an extension request the appellant is jerry byrne art center for the premises dairy barn at 8 000 dairy lane athens ohio 45701 the peli is jeffrey eaton building official bureau of building code compliance for the state of ohio and the adjudication order number two zero one six zero six zero zero one zero uh i moved to grant the extension request uh subject to the conditions previously read into the record and noting the no objection of the building official okay that motion to extend uh all those conditions has been made is there a second second mr chair all those in favor say aye aye any opposed okay thank you very much uh mr schultz miss madrid and mr carruthers and mr eaton uh the extension request is granted on those conditions thank you thank you okay thank you too thanks for the help um okay that would conclude our active docket let me indicate that uh case number uh 20 hyphen zero one three three um which is the uh spring valley fire department matter has been continued to march 29th so we don't have anything active on our case agenda um i i do see that as a matter of new business susan would like us to go through the exercise of establishing some april dates do people still want to do that and chip are you able you still have enough time yeah i'm still good thank you okay well if you want to pull your calendars out hey but i want to take the shot are we are we talking three in april yes please i i do let need to let you know that i am not going to be available the week after easter so that's the week starting april 5th through the 10th i will be uh out of state wednesday the 14th through sunday the 18th all right you want to try to then uh the 12th or the 13th uh is for what would what would be our ashland day i'm completely open the 12th or the afternoon or the 13th i'm open as well 12th works for me uh 12th or afternoon work here all right let's do the 12th then and then uh 26th and 27th i i would guess for the 27th 28th i cannot do the 28th all right how's everybody with 26 and 27. could we do the afternoon of the 26 only because i'm getting back from california like really in case there's a delayed flight or something for the that's fine with me and i have a hearing zoom hearing at 9 a.m on the 27th but i can just jump off for that it's by zoom so two hours we again we don't need to we don't need to do afternoons and then consecutive mornings right because you could do both afternoons that those days you want to do 26th and 27th both afternoons that's fine with me that works for me works here 12 30 start yeah yeah 8 30 on the 12th yes uh yes okay thank you okay and then um do we have a motion to approve minutes from our february 24th hearing so moved is there a second second all those in favor say aye aye all right any opposed okay minutes will be approved from our february 24 2021 hearings we've established dates for april susan you'll send an invite correct correct um and then do we have a motion to uh approve uh compensation uh for our preparation and our appearance today which is march 8th our agenda says march 2nd but it means march 8th so moved is there a second american all those in favor say aye aye aye opposed okay we stand to be compensated uh any if there's nothing in no new business and subject to the announcement that our next hearing um will be monday march 29 2021 it will also be virtual and begins at 8 30 a.m uh i would entertain a motion to adjourn so moved is there a second okay all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed okay thanks guys see you guys absolutely all right catch you later guys you