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hi folks it's Michael wiser chief writer for cannabis news and I'm thrilled to welcome you to the first episode of the key strop show us this is a weekly update on the politics of marijuana with the star of our show the man who launched the entire marijuana movement founder of normal mr. Keith drop hey Keith how's it goin well I think it's exciting time there's are there all kinds of things happening on the issue but i will tell you there's also some developments that give me pause for serious concern I mean I am not happy to see this latest group of leaked state compliant marijuana businesses find that they've lost their banking privileges etc they're throwing hundreds of new retailers and wholesalers at illegally license back on the black market and that is not a good sign for anyone and from what I've seen I I think it's probably a reflection of people's concern about jeff Sessions as our new Attorney General and I share that concern and i'll be happy to dig deeper into that if you'd like if the program gets on yes when we get further into the program i'd like to discuss that but before we start with the heavy news let me ask you keith drop what are you smoking this week actually i'm smoking a blend that a grower in northern california has come up with where he put together og cush and i forget forget i should have checked that out before i came on i forget the second strain that he put together he calls it OG humble and it's a wonderful wonderful strain now for about a two or three years before that I from the same grower I was smoking a train wreck and I like it a lot its course as strong sativa this is too i think you know i am incredibly proud that we grow the highest quality marijuana in the world today right here homegrown and i'm old enough to remember when you mentioned home home grown marijuana used to mean ditch weed nobody wanted it you couldn't give it away today it's the best in the world OT humboldt huh well I'm smoke bordello which is a blueberry type strands really yummy we'll check in on this again next week so in the meantime it's been a really busy week we've got new federal canvas bills from beto o'rourke and matt gates there's some ominous rumblings from prohibitionist in chief jeff Sessions last of the true reef Romania axis Kansas City joins houston and dallas in the decriminalization movement and the local normal chapter led the way and rhode island is considering giving it a seventh attempt at legalization there's Uruguay there's Ohio what do you want to talk about key well I think it's helpful for people to realize that when they hear about bills introduced in Congress those are always important so in some ways I would put that at the top of the heap we have something like 10 different bills currently pending in Congress that are all pro-marijuana we've never had anywhere near that number we have a larger number of co-sponsors we have new people willing to stand up but what I really want listeners understand is these bills that are being introduced are largely symbolic they do indicate progress we're making we have more federally elected officials willing to stand up and introduce a bill that does what everybody sort of knows we need to do seventy percent of the country says it should be up to the states and sixty percent say it should we fully legalize but nonetheless not a single one of these bills is likely to have a hearing this year in Congress are to have a vote in Congress so these are these are important but they're symbolic for people who want to know more about the bills that are filed in Congress marijuana business dailies new article marijuana on the hill filed on April fourth breaks down the bills that have been filed in a short clear list speaking of that list one of the big packages the bills filed this year came from members of the brand new congressional cannabis caucus it's called the pathway to marijuana reform what do you think about that key yeah and that really was a combination is a press conference they held to announce this but it was a combination of three other bills that have been introduced separately SB 776 HP 1841 and HB 1823 and basically what they would do it's a wonderful package of bills that would remove marijuana altogether from the Controlled Substances Act you know all of this debate about whether it should be in schedule 1 or scheduled to or schedule 3 the truth is it shouldn't be on the Controlled Substances Act at all alcohols not honored kaback owes not on it and marijuana should not be on it so this bill would remove marijuana from the Controlled Substances Act it would in fact take marijuana enforcement totally away from the DEA and it would I think it would give it to the bureau of alcohol control or one of those and then it would implement a federal excise tax on marijuana as well at which of course is an incentive to pick up some support among members of Congress that might not be pro-marijuana but might like the new revenue that would bring now again I want to make the point none of these bills are likely to get a hearing this year let alone a vote so this is largely symbolic but it's still important because it gets reported in the press if every member of Congress reads about this and realize this is becoming far more realistic now where we may make progress this year is when they do they're continuing resolutions on the budget bill that's where we made our progress in the past you know we passed two years ago what was then the lower back or far amendment to the appropriations bill and it it made it impossible for the DEA to spend any federal funds and to enforce laws against individuals or companies that were compliant under state law so in any of the state Tory I for medical marijuana I should say it was limited to medical marijuana but it was terribly important because I mean it really does mean a lot and there are actually some lawyers out in California right now that a broader suit claiming that even somewhat appear to be unrelated federal prosecutions of people in California may in fact be a violation of this amendment that was passed last year and that was passed 242 to 189 now this year there is going to be a second attempt at a amendment to the budget bill it will be called the McClinton polis bill and when a similar bill was introduced last year in 2015 it only failed to 22 to 2060 a swing of nine votes Wow and we would have won that so I honestly expect that we have a realistic chance to win that what it means is it would take the same prohibition that the roar backer blumenthal bill does on medical marijuana but it also applies it to the states that have recreational marijuana it simply says the federal government has to stay out of those states and let the states go ahead and implement those laws that is stay out of state run program space that's correct that doesn't mean that cartel action in otherwise legal states now becomes free from federal federal prosecution right oh no I mean at least for the moment the belief is legally most of these are not been tested yet but the belief is that the feds could always go in for example and bust a dispensary in Colorado even though they may have a license and they're legally selling out the front door if the feds find that they're selling out the back door illegally and it's going out of state you bet they can bust them and then they have they did several just in the past two weeks so what these are saying is that as long as an individual or a business is honestly operating under the provisions provided by the state law whether its medical marijuana or full legalization the feds could not spend any money to go after those folks they must leave them alone it's not the direct repeal of federal prohibition that we eventually need but for the moment it's as close as we can get it what are the key bills in that pathway to marijuana reform package is called a small business Equity Act it aims at exempting state compliant cannabis operations from the a te section of tax law you were talking about that earlier with the current problem of marijuana businesses in mass even ancillary businesses involved in the marijuana industry they're having their bank accounts closed with no warning and you explain how the banks can get away with that yeah I think most people that are not involved in the industry probably presume and I think most rational people would also agree by the way I apologize if you hear a dog barking in the background that's what happens when you work from our home office what a kind of dog but there are in a rescue much and clearly not very well trained as you can tell so what really happens is there are all kinds of prohibitions that make it difficult for these businesses even these businesses are in good faith trying to operate properly under state regulations it makes it difficult because most banks will not do business with them most credit card processing companies will not do business with them so we end up in the situation where we are encouraging the majority of the players in this multi-billion dollar business to be operating on the cash basis and that's absolutely idiotic I don't think there's any product yeah there's no prosecutor there's no then no one who rationally looked at this would think that there's some advantage to having this as a cash-only operation well there have been a few companies that have surface that have been willing to provide banking services and credit card services for the legitimate industry companies in you know Colorado Oregon and the other states which been legalized Washington Alaska but just today there were a whole slew of them that suddenly lost those banking and credit card privileges and let me tell you why this hits home normal is actually a consumer focused organization we're primarily interested in representing the interests of the responsible marijuana smoker where a business lobby but those the threats that were felt so strongly by a large number of people in the industry today also impact us about a year ago all of a sudden after having the same credit card processing service for many years we were given less than 30 days notice I think we were given 15 days notice and all of a sudden we could not accept credit cards they were no one with processor and I thought initially I could just go to another processor but in fact we went for over a month before we were able to identify someone who would indeed take our legitimate processing and as you know with most nonprofits and normal is the same we are totally dependent on our website which means you must be able to accept credit cards so we had no we had no income for about five weeks last year until we solve this problem and I feel terrible for those businesses that were similarly impacted today I'm sure for the next few days or a few weeks they're going to be scurrying around trying to figure out how do i how do I run a successful business without a credit card processing service back in January we reported that 6500 cannabis-related bank accounts were closed by major banks in 2016 and then there was also thousands of accounts in those same biggest banks that were operating clandestinely now for those of you who want to know more about this topic the article that keeps talking about is called marijuana-related accounts dumped in mass by banks and payment processing providers it's on inc.com this whole 280e stuff didn't the senator Elizabeth Warren start the session that way talking about this problem oh there's no doubt there's a couple of bills pending in Congress right now that our aim precisely at allowing businesses that are marijuana related businesses to take those deductions that they're not now permitted to take under 280e that's a little currently from the bank processing and the banking issue but it's all related it's if you're going to say that it's now legal if you have the proper license to commercially cultivate them sell marijuana then of course you need the regular of banking privileges and you need to be able to deduct your business expenses most of which marijuana businesses cannot do under the current tax I they can't even deduct their employees salaries right I think that's correct there there there's a certain category it's kind of limited that they're still allowed to deduct but it's very limited and it ends up being one mostly what I read is their effective tax rate somewhere like seventy five to seventy eight percent my I mean very few businesses in America could survive with that kind of a tax rate so I mean there has to be some relief and to be honest I it's partly what I think of our current Congress but I said I long long before we get any relief to the individual who's still being arrested under federal law and prosecuted for marijuana offenses we will get some relief for the marijuana businesses because if there's one thing this Republican Congress is it's a business-friendly Congress so they say the business of America is business I believe that we're seeing a steadily rising ground swell of support from the American people even if it isn't being supported by our quote leaders but there are efforts going on all around the country at state and even local levels normal chapters and other citizens are pushing for a forum at their level by last week there was a huge victory for a chapter in Missouri right that's right it's a Kansas City Missouri normal chapter and it was totally a project of the local normal group there to be applauded indeed and I know that our outreach coordinator Kevin mom ah geez in the process of making sure that other local normal groups around the country realize that even if their state legislature is bulky as they are in Missouri and even if they've tried a couple of times to qualify initiative in Missouri they got very close last year but failed because of the shortness of signatures in one particular County but they're going to come back but even before they come back statewide there are there's progress that can be made on the municipal level so I think that's what those fine folks in Kansas City demonstrated can be replicated in cities all across the country shout out to this week sponsor ultra Trustnet for their support Rocco Beatrice senior the founder of ultra Trust is one of the nation's foremost experts on asset protection his articles can be seen in USA Today ABC News CBS News Fox News and many more Rocco can help you protect your assets from seizure creditors legal actions of all kinds and hide them from prying eyes visit Rocco online at ultra Trustnet where you can download is free report managing the risk of loss and learn numerous ways to protect your assets that's ultra Trustnet you LTR a TR you st dot net here's a little bit of additional background on Tuesday April fourth the citizens of Kansas City Missouri has special election and overwhelmingly voted for decriminalizing minor cannabis possession people in Kansas City can now possess up to 30 grams at a time with the fine that's no more than $25 more than seventy four percent of the voters said yes now that's a definitive statement of approval then there's all the state level reform going on even though we don't have a great record of marijuana law changing in our favor at the federal level they are changing everywhere all the time at the state level it looks like Rhode Island is going to try to pass legalization again what's this going to be the seventh time and I think New Hampshire is still trying around the edges of you know we thought when the season was starting that there would be a serious effort made in Vermont New Hampshire and Rhode Island and there has been but it looks right now like Rhode Island maybe the one most likely to actually occur this year one reason that is important people may not understand while we have been incredibly successful with voter initiatives and for full legalization all eight of the states that have legalized marijuana have done it by voter initiative the reason rhode island would be important would be because it would be the first time we have done it through the state legislature and remember that of the 50 states only 24 I believe currently have a voter initiative as an option and for those who don't know there is no federal version of a voter admission an we get people calling the office suggesting that we have a federal initiative well there is no such thing I'm sorry to say but 24 the states have them and where they have them of course we'll continue to try to use them to our advantage and go around the state legislature but it's terribly important in the balance of the states that we begin to develop the ability to pass full legalization proposals through those state elected officials because otherwise we've got half the country that's still out on a limb one thing we don't have protection from anywhere in the country is what happens if jeff Sessions decides to do the pending federal crackdown if jeff Sessions has his way things could look pretty ugly last week there were some ominous rumblings coming out of the DOJ sessions put out a memo Wednesday to his attorneys around the country that was supposedly addressing violent crime but also included quite a bit of language about marijuana in it tell me Keith how is violent crime connected to marijuana especially the marijuana industry well I think only in the mind of people like jeff Sessions you know there Jeff truly is one of the old reefer maniacs so as you well know Michael he said he said a few years ago of the Ku Klux Klan that he always liked him until he found out that they enjoyed smoking pot how's that for lasting statement he later he later claimed that was a but I'm not sure it was but more recently as you know and it wasn't a joke at all he actually said it a committee hearing in the Senate that good people did not smoke marijuana so we're dealing with a man who is 50 years out of date I don't think there's a chance in hell that he's going to change his impression I mean he's comfortable as an anti-drug zealot and he's going to remain that dress and they the question is whether the president is going to give him the leeway to totally screw up the current mayor illegal state compliant legal marijuana industry frankly I someone called me not to long ago as I'm sure they do all of us who were active in the movement to ask for some advice on investing in this new Green Rush created by the legalization of marijuana and I said man if I were you and you've got the resources to do that then I would sit on them until I find out what the trump administration is going to do it would be idiotic to race out right now and make an investment because that industry could be shut down if jeff Sessions is given the leeway to do that he would likely go into federal court and ask for an injunction against the state legal businesses and I think he would probably win it now what he would be what he would be left with is not what the conservatives would like and that's why I have some optimism that once they look at that option they're going to decide no that's really not where we want to go because what would happen is this no state is under an obligation to mimic the federal law so therefore the fact that they would perhaps and we think get a federal injunction against a commercial cultivation and sale of marijuana under state law they would be left with eight states including twenty one or two percent of the population in which marijuana is perfectly legal to possess them to smoke but the only place to get is on the black market just before sessions released is memo five governors from five different marijuana States sent a letter to him asking that he simply respect the Cole memo you know the thing that protects state compliant medical programs how can he ignore them and say that he's upholding the will of the people oh there's no doubt one positive thing of this fight and you know it's a fight we're going to be involved in I think for a few months I don't think it's going to be resolved in the short run the positive thing is we have very strong support from the governors of Washington Oregon Colorado and I think Alaska was the fourth when I forget I think there were four governors involved but especially Washington and Colorado and are in Oregon they were just saying look we're going to do whatever it takes we're going to fight you tooth and nail and it would be ironic indeed if a Republican Attorney General under a Republican administration is seeing using the federal power federal government's power to shut down an industry that's created hundreds of thousands of new jobs in these states despite the fact that those programs were overwhelmingly popular in those states but that's what we're faced with right now you know this brings up a question that I've wanted to ask you for years actually when we talk about this journey that you've been on for what is it 47 years or something how long was it yeah I we started in 70 so you have to think it's worth coming on 247 it was late in nineteen seventy so tell me what kind of metaphor would you use for this project that you've been working on for so very long is it a long road is it a tall mountain how does it see you well no no it's not been a straight line I mean if if anybody thinks social change occurs in a totally linear fashion they are mistaken and I know from my own experience during the 70's we made great progress and we decriminalize marijuana in 12 states and we thought within just a short time we would have marijuana at least be criminalized nationwide well in fact what happened was the mood of the country turned far more conservative you had Ronald reagan and nancy reagan and just say no and the concern of the parents groups and instead of focusing on the damage done to individuals by being arrested the question the focus was on oh but what about the children and so we lost ground we went 18 years from 1978 when Nebraska was the last of 11 states to decriminalize marijuana we went 18 years before we won another statewide victory and that was 96 in California and it would when the issue surfaced at that point it had been redefined as the medical use of marijuana speaking of marijuana and medical marijuana in particular hats off to West Virginia and did a whole lot of badminton this week with a bill bouncing it back and forth between the two houses but in the end the legislature did send a medical marijuana program to the governor's desk there's going to be medical marijuana in West Virginia go team wailing when you realize it is West Virginia after all we have to all feel good that it to happen now the problem is just before the end some jerk included an amendment that precludes the use of whole smoked marijuana and if you notice like the last 10 or 12 states that have legalized medical marijuana none of them allow the patients to smoke it even though everybody knows that that's how most patients prefer to use it and it's quick acting when you smoke it if you take it as a ingestible you know it's an hour and a half before it kicks in and it's almost impossible to titrate the dosage so I think it's a stupid ploy by the state legislators there they want to be seen as high as helping the seriously ill patients but they don't want them to get high because you can't let sick people feel good hey thanks for mentioning this phenomenon because there's something about it you see it in every state House crafted medical program as opposed to a program that was passed by ballot measure at cannabis news we reported that the medical program and Minnesota for example is having a hard time they're struggling trying to make their program work due to lack of participation it's just not enough patience and I'm wondering if that's because these programs take out the smokables and the edibles and then nobody's interested you don't have enough people to make the economy of scale work you know I I'll tell you another term in asotin may have been the first state to allow medical marijuana but not to allow the patient's the option of growing their own well once they did that New Jersey came right along after that and of course they didn't allow grow your own and indeed none of the states that have passed since I think it's correct have allowed the patients a grow their own marijuana so and again partly it's because you know they want to control the industry and they hand it off to the pharmaceutical companies to get rich but partly it is because they don't want those patients to smoke that marijuana leaf yeah we've noticed that it's something that they've been fighting off at the florida state legislature and in arkansas too why won't these legislators respect the will of the voters yeah yeah exactly right even though the initiative clearly allows whole smoked marijuana the funnel harder legislature is trying to amend it to say they won't be allowed to smoke now by the way that will be challenged immediately and I think it won't hold up because there is no ability of the legislature in Florida even if they had a supermajority they cannot substantially change the voter admission okay let me ask you a final question because getting near the end of this episode so way back 46 years ago when you were reaching for this goal of changing the way America treats marijuana achieving that goal one hundred percent would have been something like repealing the federal prohibition is that what you said was your goal the ultimate goal yes that's correct that would be have to go would be repealing federal prohibition and enacting state-level regulation and control you know we we want a place where consumers can buy their marijuana that's safe and secure we don't want to have to go to the black market that was never something marijuana smokers enjoyed and it involves a certain amount of risk and being ripped off and you don't know the quality of what you're buying we want marijuana that's a safe convenient and affordable and by safe I mean it should be tested in a laboratory so we know there are no moles or pesticides and I want it honestly labeled as to the strength of the THC and the CBD and I think as we learn more about it I think we should also have the major terpenoids included but again that's an emerging field that we have to figure out a little bit more about how important is we know that but we do know we shouldn't be smoking marijuana as molds or pesticides and we know and we know it ought to be honestly labeled and you can't require that from a black market if there was a countdown clock say you know a countdowns legalization for normal to reach your goals how close are we as of Monday April 10 2017 I'd shoot for 10 years for twenty ten years from now now there will be states just as there was at the end of alcohol prohibition that will choose to retain to be a dry state for marijuana for a few more years and there will be states where they'll legalize it but certain counties will want to stay dry for marijuana for a few years that's exactly what happened with alcohol prohibition when it ended we don't want the federal government telling States they have to legalize marijuana we simply want the federal government to get out of the way and allow the states to adopt whatever marijuana policy they're happy with inevitably they will all end up with legalization now for all you listeners who think that the skull is a noble one and worth working for let me encourage you to learn more about normal and your local normal chapter you can find out more by going to normals website that's n 0 RM l dot o RG this has been Michael wiser staff reporter for cannabis news we've been talking with keith strap from washington DC join us next week for more report to the latest from Keith in Washington before we go any last words for the public Keith stay high well that's about all the time we have this week let me encourage everyone to join us next week where you'll catch the latest in cannabis news from DC and around the country this week's episode of the key strop show was brought to you by ultra trust dotnet protect your assets from seizure creditors and legal action with ultra trusts irrevocable trust fund visit ultra trust dotnet to learn more and while you're there download their free report managing the risk of loss and learn about ways to legally protect your assets that's ultra trust dotnet UL tra TR you st dot net once again this has been the key strap show I'm Michael wiser and you're listening to cannabis news