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well good afternoon everyone my name is sean egan i'm the director of covid workplace safety for the state of michigan in the department of labor and economic opportunity with this is part three of four in our series working with our friends at ashrae to talk about covet 19 and some of those indoor air issues that you might be facing or dealing with and additional mitigation strategies you might want to incorporate as we work really hard to contain kovit one of the one reminder briefly is that there's a lot of noise about covet a lot of news about covet and we're all working through that the best that we can but a few things have remained absolutely the same throughout this crisis and that's the need for social distancing wearing face coverings when we can't do that and practicing good hygiene when we talk speak or sing you name it we're emitting large droplets as well as aerosols that can go out around us six feet or more in some spaces much more than six feet in those face coverings when we can't maintain that social distancing or when we're in indoor spaces can help pull that virus if we have it right back close to us so we have less of a chance of transmission so we certainly want to keep encouraging those behaviors and then today we're going to continue talking about steps that you can take in those indoor environments to help mitigate the spread of covid just by those aerosols being around just a reminder next slide please a reminder that we have a lot of wonderful great resources for you at michigan.gov coveted workplace safety we're going to do a webinar next week on the emergency rules issued by miosha and some of those pieces if you go to this michigan.gov covid workplace safety site all of the guidelines that myosha had created have been updated to reflect those changes the emergency rules are there the mdhhs epidemic orders are there as well as their infographics to help you understand those pieces that are in place that you need to be paying attention to and trying to implement don't forget about this wonderful tool that miosha created many months ago i believe it was made they might have launched this it's a hotline directly into miosha for employers and employees to ask questions related to co-fit workplace safety that's at 855 safe c19 looking at the stats our wait time is average between 12 to 20 seconds to get to one of those miosha experts so make sure you're taking advantage of that they can help you with a lot of things that you really want to know we have other links there including that michigan economic development corps pure michigan business connect platform where you can find supplies materials barriers hand sanitizer you name it that you may need the my symptoms app created by dhhs and u of m can handle that daily health screening questionnaire for you it's free it works very well so i definitely encourage you to check that out and don't forget about all the resources at the michigan safe start site including what's open and what's not and and other things that you should be doing as well as the mask of michigan information that dhhs has available at the mask of michigan site with that i will go ahead and kick us right over to our friend sonia pouncey with ashrae to run through today's topic on hvac thank you sean good afternoon everybody are we on slide number two from my presentation yes sean okay perfect great okay so as sean mentioned this is the third in a series of presentations uh modifications you might make to your hvac system to help it better help you reduce the risk of transmitting infectious aerosols like the covid the virus that causes covid19 in your space as we progress through this presentation please keep in mind that this is a novel or new virus and the science around it is still developing things are still changing daily the suggestions in this presentation should be considered along with the characteristics and requirements of your specific building as well as all owner and occupant criteria and all executive orders from the michigan office of the governor next slide i am going to uh forego this slide just in the interest of time um if you want if you have questions about who ashrae is um and why you should listen to us uh we can uh i'll address those during the q a period next slide so because transmission of the the this novel coronavirus and other viruses um through the air is possible airborne exposures uh should be controlled and because you know we spend 90 percent of our time indoors and certainly much more these days um this is a a growing concern so with some tweaking the systems and equipment that develop and clean and distribute our indoor air can help us do that now before we make any changes to our hvac system it is important to start with an informed response team that understands our system understands how it's designed to work and how it's actually operated and how it's maintained this means that your facility management team should begin with your current operating protocols and then make a thoughtful plan for tweaking things after that documenting all changes is very important some changes will be permanent but others will likely be temporary and you'll want to know what your set points and procedures were so you can go back to them after this time has passed it'll also be extremely important to monitor track and trend the impacts your changes make including changes in operating and maintenance costs which will likely increase there are some things that you can do to mitigate those cost increases and my good friends at the utilities will talk to you about that shortly but as you're operating your building in this new way you want to be sure that you're able to tell if what you're doing is effective if things are working the way that you want them to and the only way to do that is to monitor track and trend at some point later in the future you're going to want to review these things and decide if you can safely return to your old way of operating or if you want to maintain these new operating protocols so if you don't already have a business process that includes a regular building performance review i encourage you to include that as part of your building operation strategy next slide a key component of your plan should be to review your maintenance records and take care of any deferred maintenance anything that's broken should be fixed or replaced uh you need to take a look at sensors and switches and all of the devices determine and assess how they work independently and as part of the larger system and as you're performing maintenance you want to remember that some maintenance activities require personal protective equipment since we're talking about filters and filtration let's take a look at filtration or ppe that's required with the maintenance of filters next slide please so because filters are devices that capture and contain all that the gunk the nasty stuff we don't want floating around in our air of all the people in the building staff changing out filters are at a higher risk of exposure than most so we want to make sure that they have an n95 respirator not just a simple homemade mask and we want to make sure that they've been properly fit tested by a healthcare professional to wear the respirator a lot of folks think that testing just refers to how the respirator fits on the face and while it does look at that it also looks at whether or not the person is physically fit to wear the respirator while doing their job we also want to be sure that they have gloves and eye protection and that they have appropriate waist disposal bags for used filters and even though they'll be wearing gloves hands should be washed with soap and water for at least 20 seconds when they've completed the filter change out next slide now there are many many various types of filters some are established well understood technologies with demonstrated track records like the plain jane mechanical filters others are advanced technologies like ultraviolet irradiation that go a step further than the tried and true mechanical filter these have been widely used in commercial and industrial applications and some are emerging which doesn't necessarily mean that their brand new ways of cleaning the air but instead that they've just not yet gone through vigorous review the study the poking the prodding of the scientific community but regardless of the technology we're asking our field filters to all do the same thing get rid of the bad stuff and just give us clean air to breathe now what is this bad stuff next slide well contaminants fall into three major categories particles chemicals and biological agents these can come from outdoors as with pollen and radon from things we use to clean our buildings like detergents and quote-unquote air fresheners uh sometimes pesticides as well they can come from furnishings in our buildings like carpet and copiers and of course they come from people who may have a virus but who also wear cologne and perfume who shed skin and hair right these are the things we want to filter out of the breathing air next slide the goal is to have indoor air in which there are no known contaminants at harmful concentrations and with which most not all because we can never get to all but most people are satisfied next slide we're actually trying to approximate clean outdoor air for which the us epa has set standards for six contaminants part of the design process for hcac systems entails confirming that the outdoor air which will be the basis for your indoor air is sufficiently clean and if it's not depending on the particular contaminant we have to either document a strategy for making it clean or in the case of ozone and particulate matter we have to add certain types of filters so for example if our immediate outdoor air environment is found to have higher than allowable concentrations of particulate matters then we may have to either add a filter that has an efficiency rating of merv 8 or merv 11. next slide the most commonly used filter type is the mechanical filter it comes as standard with a lot of packaged hvac equipment like rooftop units and fan claw units even window shakers have mechanical filters in them in our basic commercial equipment the rating of those filters that typically comes factory installed ranges somewhere between merv 6 and mirv 11. so now what is merv next slide merv stands for minimum efficiency reporting value this is a single number it's an assigned value it indicates the efficiency of the filter at capturing particles over a range of sizes and at a particular velocity next slide merv values range from 1 to 20. typically seeing values from 1 to 16 the 17 to 20 fall into categories called high efficiency particulate or hepa filters and ultra low particulate air filters or opa filters and we can see that for each merv value the filters are tested and rated for their efficiency at removing particles of a specific size so for example if a filter were tested and found to be only five percent efficient at removing particles between point three and one micrometer in size which is less than the lowest tabulated value of twenty percent here in this table then regardless of the efficiency at removing larger particles the best merv number that can be assigned to that filter is 10. right if that filter were 65 efficient for removing particles between one and three micrometers and 75 efficient at removing particles between 3 and 10 micrometers then its rating would drop down to merv 9. now the general advice we've been hearing is to just increase filter efficiencies to the highest number and because we're dealing with a virus some folks have interpreted that to mean just go straight to hepa filters next slide hepa filters by definition are able to remove 99.9 of particles in the 0.3 to 1 micrometer range but viruses including the coronavirus are smaller than this right but remember that the merv rating correlates to the minimum efficiency across a particle size range right so now looking at how filters actually perform the minimum values usually occur around 0.3 micrometers but above and more importantly below that 0.3 mechanical filters tend to perform significantly better hence people are considering the hepa filters however next slide hepa filters performance comes with a price pressure drop or resistance to flow and as the merv number goes up so does the pressure drop across the filter this means that the fan system is going to have to work harder to move air through the filter that leaves us with two choices next slide if we leave the fan operating at the current speed our new pressure drop will perhaps not be so much greater than the old level but our airflow will fall off meaning that we're no longer sending the right amount of air to our space so although the filters pulling contaminants out of the air we just don't have enough air this is not the choice you want to make the other choice is to increase the fan speed so that the fan can deliver the right amount of air and when we do that we see that our horsepower also goes up which means our electricity costs go up now certainly the health safety and well-being of our building occupants and visitors is paramount i'm either all suggesting that you compromise health and safety i am however suggesting that you should understand that making adjustments to your hvac system to combat corona will likely increase energy costs next slide in addition to that the total cost of ownership will also increase higher merv rated filters cost more than lower rated filters depending on where you're starting from it could be as much as 10 or 20 times more a single 24 by 24 one inch merv 8 filter might cost 10 a 24 by 24 12 inch hepa filter might cost 400 and the higher merv filter will likely require more frequent inspections and replacements and may have different disposal criteria maintenance staff will require additional training filter racks in the existing equipment would likely have to be modified to accept the deeper hepa filters and right now when you need the filters and everybody else also needs the filters lead times are very long so installing hepa filters inside your hvac equipment may not be the most practical choice right now next slide the recommendation is instead that for typical packaged equipment merv ratings between 11 and 14 be strongly considered these typically have pressure drops comparable or just slightly higher than what was likely already inside that packaged equipment so performance doesn't drop off so much and you can still deliver the right amount of air to each space this coupled with an increase in ventilation rates right bringing in a greater percentage of outside air which was discussed in the previous presentation in this series those two things combined will do a better job of keeping folks in your building safe next slide of course you also want to be sure to check that your outdoor air is of sufficient quality which you can do by visiting the websites of either the us epa or eagle michigan's department of environment great lakes and energy formally or deq next slide and because as we saw earlier filter performance varies with the range of contaminant size and airflow velocity you may also want to request the ashrae 52.2 test report for your filters particularly if you know what specific type or size of contaminants you're encountering at your facility now in the case of a virus you're not going to have a lot of particulars there but for example if you happen to know that you're around a lot of trees your building is around a lot of trees and you have high pollen counts then you may want to look at specific information to to see the effectiveness of the filters that you're going to use in your facility against that particular contaminant okay next slide to go beyond the ability of the typical mechanical filter you may also want to include some advanced technologies either inside your major equipment like the air handlers or the ductwork or as standalone equipment inside specific rooms so if you're doing this you may be looking at including something like ultraviolet germicidal irradiation or uvc right this technology's been around for a while and has a long-standing well-documented track record of ffectiveness against viruses and other microorganisms in commercial applications like schools and large office buildings water treatment facilities have made use of this technology laboratories hospital clean rooms as well combining this with a mechanical filter is a very effective strategy for contaminant control if you're looking to add this to your existing equipment you just want to be aware that ppe is required for maintenance workers uv radiation causes sunburn and can damage eyes long-term exposures can lead to other health challenges you also want to be aware that some newer uv systems are using led lighting we've been doing a lot of uh upgrades to our facilities and we're using led lighting in our um in our commercial spaces and in our homes uh when it comes to i'm sorry using led lighting i think i said uv but when it comes to germicidal irradiation uh and looking to get that light energy in the ultraviolet spectrum the led lighting is not as efficient as some of the traditional technologies like the mercury vapor or other noble gas lighting so just be aware of that um it is much more efficient in terms of energy use but in terms of effectiveness at deactivating viruses um not as much sometimes a significant reduction can be seen there so just be aware of that as you're making choices and considering what type of technology uh to add to your system next slide akin to the uv is the photocatalytic oxidation system this uses uv light to react with a chemical catalyst these act on water molecules in the air electrons from the chemical reaction then go on to break up the the water molecules um into hydroxyls which then oxidize vocs and eliminate microorganisms now why this technology has been around for a while it is not as widely used as the uvgi one of the advantages of this technology is that the ions generated travel with the air to the space and more or less continue eliminating vocs in microorganisms however you want to be careful some units are using uv-a radiation and vacuum uv radiation which are not necessarily as effective as uvc radiation and the test data for overall effectiveness with this strategy has not been consistent meaning that some studies show it to be effective some studies indicate it's not effective so manufacturer data should be carefully reviewed and claims of effectivity should be scrutinized also note that sometimes the oxidation process is not fully completed and this equipment can produce harmful byproducts like formaldehyde acetylhyde formic and acetic acid and this equipment also has the potential of generating ozone which is harmful to human health so you definitely want to make sure that this equipment bears the ul 2998 certification next slide you may have also heard quite a bit about ionizing air cleaners like bipolar ionization and metapoint ionization ions are naturally occurring outdoors they're created from energy with uh from running water rushing water crashing waves even sunlight ionizing air cleaners are akin to but not the same as older electrostatic air cleaners you may be familiar with it's got a high dc voltage it's applied to some small wires that create an ionizing field instead of charging the particles so that they agglomerate into bigger particles that have been precipitated out on collection plates these units send those ions out into the space where they interact with contaminants out in the space this has been a technology's been around for a while um and although it is a derivative of older technologies it is still considered emerging because there are very very few peer-reviewed scientific studies on this technology however it has been in use for a while and there are many anecdotal studies for manufacturers and end users indicating its effectiveness like other electronic air cleaners it should be paired with a mechanical filter and like the photocatalytic oxidator it has the potential of producing ozone so due diligence should be exercised when considering this technology for your facility next slide to help verify claims of effectiveness particularly for freestanding electronic filters you add to a space you'll want to check to see if the product is listed by the association of home appliance manufacturers which has jurisdiction over this type of equipment aham tests and certifies this smaller freestanding equipment that you might see in a residential or light commercial type of application they're looking for its ability to remove dust environmental tobacco smoke and pollen and they also certify that the old zone production is less than the allowable limits next slide in order to claim zero ozone production these air cleaners have to generate ozone at a rate that would amount to no more than 0.005 parts per million based on the air flow rate and the room size for which that piece of equipment is rated so this is your third-party independent safety testing for ozone for this equipment next slide um so as you can see changing your filtration strategy is a bit more involved than you know just arbitrarily picking a higher mirv rating there are many things for a business owner to think about uh including the health and safety of your building occupants and how you will sustainably fund an upgrade right like all other business decisions it requires careful consideration and due diligence some of the things that you want to think about are your life cycle costs and your maintenance requirements and the ability of your maintenance staff to properly take care of and maintain whatever new equipment you might bring into the facility remember this is the equipment that is creating and sustaining your indoor air that you're breathing and so if you aren't able to take care of it it's not going to be able to take care of you next slide i encourage you to seek the advice and counsel of professionals that can help you navigate the many options available for improving your filtration system these include filter manufacturers iaq specialists and air system testing adjusting and balancing or tab contractors and they are um you know we're prevalent uh across the state of michigan you probably are working with some of us already um or know of some of us already so just reach out to those folks that can help answer your questions and give you good guidance next slide for additional information you might consider visiting the website for the detroit chapter of ashrae here you'll find a simplified list of recommendations for hpac and water systems this is a site from uh just the detroit i'm sorry i'm a little i hear a little bit of feedback so that just threw me off for a minute but um yeah this is a site from the detroit chapter of ashrae next slide and you might also consider going to the international society's website here uh we've developed a resource page for covet 19 in particular you can find detailed information on some of the technologies that i talked about today and there's also an email address covet 19 ashrae.org where you can send questions specific questions and our team of uh global experts and subject subject matter experts and and and practitioners uh will respond to your question uh on this website we have information specific to various building types as well as to the very the various major components of hvac systems so if you have additional questions for example on filtration or ventilation or humidity control which we'll be talking about in the next session in this series all of this type of information can be found on this website next slide one last thing before i turn you back over to sean and i know that that was a lot of information and it went really fast but i know that we've also got a lot of speakers on the call today so i wanted to make sure that i left a sufficient time for for all of them uh but one last thing before i turn you back over i want to just make you aware that i've got two subject matter experts um on the line with me today both from the detroit chapter of ashrae simon wren and jim newman and they are available to assist uh during the q a portion if you do have questions please feel free to submit them in accordance with the instructions provided by sean and with that sean i'll turn it back over to you thanks so much tony a wonderful presentation a lot of information for sure but that's what we're trying to do with this webinar series is to provide a lot of information of things that you can consider to help mitigate the potential spread of covid indoors within your workplaces or places of business so i really do appreciate that i appreciate you uh flowing through that quite quickly and we will continue to have this information available and keep pushing forward uh we to coincide with some of the things that sonya talked with you about today on on things we might want to consider or try or directions you might want to go indoors our friend todd parker who's the director of programs at michigan saves is going to share some information on programs that they do that that might be able to assist you while you're thinking through these concepts so todd over to you great thank you sean and thank you sonia for the delightfully insightful uh presentation it's always fun to to follow you i learn a lot every time i uh i get on these calls uh so today we're gonna uh i'm gonna introduce you to michigan saves uh we are a non-profit organization dedicated to making energy improvements easy and affordable and we do this by providing low interest on secured financing for qualifying energy efficiency renewable energy and health and safety improvements since our formation in 2009 we've been michigan's green bank playing this uh role this intersecting role between customers contractors lenders and and utilities and the government next slide so michigan saves has a variety of financing programs residential commercial and public sector are three most prominent for this call we'll just focus on the commercial and public sector financing programs those are again energy efficiency renewable energy and health and safety improvements are what we finance uh minimum loan sizes are five thousand dollars all the way up to two million or even more in some cases typically there are equipment financing agreements or efas which is a form of a form of a equipment lease where you own the equipment on day one rather than on the final day of your term the loans are available for all types of businesses nonprofits houses of worship public sector entities and so forth we have a very fast easy process for getting customers approved for financing currently our standard rates start at about six percent uh per year however for certain types of measures if you're a consumer's energy customer or dte customer uh zero percent or one point nine nine percent rates may be available for certain types of measures so that's something that we can certainly help you determine if you get the uh the uh interest rate buy downs we call them and again consumers dte and even semco in some cases offer those buy downs for our customers next so sonya's going through a lot of these already today and then in past weeks as well if you've been on the series you've heard that a lot of the improvements that you can make to improve the indoor air quality in your business are are operational and they usually come with very little to no cost and then there are other improvements that do require some some cost expenditure and that's where michigan saves fits in we provide that low interest financing to help you make some of the upgrades to your hva systems that maybe you just can't afford right now with cash you can see some of the ones on this screen here that may require some some financing in order to be implemented if you move to the next slide i also want to note that sony has mentioned that uvc lights are something that we also financed either permanent lights or something that is portable that you bring in and out of different rooms uh in order to disinfect the space that's also something that we can now finance and uh some other considerations as sonya mentioned that most of the measures that you would finance are going to increase your electric or gas bill so these are not necessarily being done for energy efficiency they're being done for health and safety and to improve the interior quality for your employees for your customers for your staff and then you know the keep in mind too that some of the interactions between the technologies as well if you put uv g systems into your hvac unit while you're also then opening up your units to outside air all you're doing is cleaning the outside air so please be mindful some of those interactions as well before you make decisions and of course always contact and work with a licensed mechanical contractor or other engineering specialist to help you out if you have more information or like more information about our financing my contact information is on the next screen and we can help you uh find out if financing is something that would be a good fit for you for some of these improvements so thanks for having me sean yeah thanks so much for joining us again great information there one of the keys that we're trying to do is make sure that not only are you starting to see things that you might want to consider but ways that you might be able to accomplish that right so we've also asked and are very pleased to have chad miller with us today the senior energy efficiency program manager for consumers energy so uh without further ado i always forget to mention at the outset and the comms folks always you know are frustrated with me there's a q a box at the bottom of your screen so feel free to send in questions and when we wrap up we intend to fill whatever time we have left with questions so thanks for that and chad i'll turn it over to you helps if i unmute uh thanks sean we can move to the next slide and the next slide so i'm gonna take you know this quick five minutes to kind of give an overview of all of the uh programs that we have for small and medium businesses so for starters i just want to talk a little bit about our virtual energy coaching we created this here uh about six to seven months ago uh when kovitt hit and the first shutdown started to happen we didn't have this service at that point in time but we found found that it was necessary and that we wanted to continue to serve our customers so we have this option available that is non-touch it's a phone assessment that you can learn more about your energy efficiency uh if you're interested you can call us schedule us by going and sending an email to that email address right there on the screen next slide we also have an opportunity for customers if you're just looking to purchase some reduced cost products to help you save energy our online marketplace we've got anything there from currently a free thermostat there is some limitations on that due to evaluation uh 13 counties that are offering the free thermostat but if you don't fall within those 13 counties there's plenty of other opportunities for you at reduced costs and there's also a code that you can use today at sb 25 that'll get you 25 off your first order next slide another opportunity just to learn more about your energy usage and and learn about energy efficiency my business rewards is a portal uh you can sign into that portal you can learn about your own usage there's uh graphs and details about your usage there's ability to go through an online assessment that online assessment will provide you recommendations things you can do low cost no cost and then also it will connect you if you want to do bigger projects uh if you're thinking about a lighting retrofit other opportunities like that it will link you to those uh next steps again on the screen is the uh url to get you directly to my business rewards next slide we also offer direct installation so that we have a team of people that are out in the field again different than the virtual option we will actually come out and install those items for you at free of charge that does include smart thermostats um we'd still have some limitations but it's not just those 13 counties so you could potentially get a smart thermostat you can get uh faucet irritators you can get pre-rinse sprayers shower heads a pipe wrap all in talled at no charge to you and again if you're interested there's an email here that you can send we would reach out to you and schedule that direct installation next slide if you're interested in doing a larger project our small business trade ally program is really based around refrigeration and lighting what people are typically surprised by is this program is meant to reduce the cost as much as possible very easy to participate no effort from the customer you simply reach out you can find a contractor that's probably the hardest part of this program is picking contractor through our website listed on the screen once you pick that contractor they'll come out and give you a proposal once you receive the proposal it'll break it down onto what the rebates are available through consumers energy and then what costs are left for you as the customer sometimes that can be up to 100 percent the rebates are based on savings generated so by the the products that we put in uh um minus what we take out and then there's savings there those rebates are based on that so if you've got long hour usage on your lighting uh sometimes that can be 100 percent free for you simply the only way to know that is uh contact us get a trade ally uh have the trade ally come out and then provide that uh proposal to you next slide simple energy efficiency tips to think about uh you know making sure you know the weather is getting warm or cold excuse me uh so you're gonna be turning up the temperature in your house or your business uh just making sure that you're keeping up on the most latest uh recommendations as far as uh keeping your energy uh energy use as low as possible unplugging devices i think that was important recently with all the kovid uh making sure that you're unplugging things within the office maybe you're not using the office right now um just simple things like that can save you energy next slide and then the kind of wrap this all up uh the important piece that i know that we're talking about today is kind of the covid uh hvac upgrades we also have rebates available uh for uh items and products that would be needed to update your your hvac systems uh simple things like the filters um we have rebates for those airflow management uh there's different opportunities in that space uh maybe maybe these uh installations of these hepa filters are requiring you to upgrade your systems what we've got obviously we've got opportunities for furnace replacements rooftop heating units boilers and then of course tune-ups next slide and that's it uh i think there was one more slide that had uh maybe some calls to action uh how to reach out to us but again available if there's any further questions thanks chad i appreciate that and uh um chad and everybody will be hanging on for the q a so as questions come in uh make sure you submit those and then uh finally today we have allison with dte energy to share some of the programs and opportunities that they may have hi good afternoon my name is alison jaworski and i'm the program manager of the dte energy efficiency program for business next slide please um similar to consumers i have an overview here prepared um dte has a very comprehensive um portfolio of programs that we offer for our gas and electric business customers small business programs similar to the consumers where we'll come on site do a direct install or we will partner you with trade allies to get your job efficiently done we have an extensive instant discount program so we work with participating electrical distributors lighting food service and hvac and those programs simply operate where you provide a customer account number at the point of purchase and those rebates are taken right off at the point of sale the downstream platform is what i manage and that's our traditional paper-based application program and that program incentivizes custom or prescriptive or construction projects in a very very extensive catalog basically anything that is in the michigan energy measures database is eligible for incentives it's typically about five cents per kwh reduced and three dollars and fifty cents per ncf reduced uh many of the projects that we incentivize pay back within a year to two we have the low cost no cost portfolio the operational platform which focuses on things that the customers can do to optimize their usage by simply doing building tune-ups or adjusting their building management systems and then we also have the energy assessment platform where a team folks will come out on site and do a building walk through and provide a report and give recommendations for efficiency next slide please um dt is constantly striving to improve our programs and to just continue to reach our customers and assist our customers so here's a listing of some of the pilots that we have in the field right now um steam trap find and fix where we'll go out and um could conduct an assessment free of charge and then a recommendation of what needs to be repaired we we're working with grocery stores closely um 2020 e challenge with universities we partner with the financing arms as well to buy down the rates um we had michigan saves on we would do work with michigan saves and i'll have a slide on that on what the dt rates are we have self direct programs if our customers want to choose to opt out of the program they self-direct their energy savings uh next slide please so for 2020 dte's michigan saves rate um we had subsidized the rate so we can offer our customers financing as low as 0 with terms up to 36 months for projects in energy efficiency that are up to 150 000 if someone wants a bit longer term we offer a rate of 1.99 for projects up to 60 months and 150 thousand dollars in value so we have trained trade allies that are familiar with the michigan saves program and can help the customers through the process and easily apply for a loan and what we hear here is many of the customers are very surprised how easy the process is and that we offer incentives or rebates on their projects as well as financing to help them save energy i think that's my last slide there next slide thanks that was the last slide yeah so um we're gonna move into the question phase allison before you mute yourself and then i'll go to chad for the answer to this question too but just to clarify for folks watching that as we're talking about making a lot of these improvements there may be parts of the system not you you may not need to do the whole system there may be parts of the system that could qualify for certain types of rebates right like if you move from uh to a variable speed fan it seems like a lot of times those might qualify does that sound right yes yep a variable speed fan does qualify so it could be pieces of a system it could be even something as simple as optimizing a building control if it results in a reduction we will pay an incentive on that but we have um i would recommend customers to go to the dt energy business save energy section of the website um to get more information but we have a call center that's staffed five days a week and we have a team of engineers and outreach people that would be you know happy to assist and work through the process awesome chad yeah same question yeah yeah so we we similar to dte we we have a lot of opportunities for airflow management vfd controls uh duct and uh plenum uh evaluation uh high performance filters boilers furnace tune-ups um fixed plate air-to-air energy recovery uh so there's lots of options available as well that you can get uh discounts you know through the rebates through consumers energy okay awesome so that for everybody watching you know keep in mind that this becomes a little bit overwhelming in that it it doesn't necessarily have to be the whole shebang you might be able to piece piece parts that are going to make sense for what you're capable of doing so uh with that now i think i will turn over to erica who will be our mc i believe for the questions that's right and if you have any questions we've got a little bit of time to get through and feel free to add them in and we'll get to as many as we can the first one is from benedict a bella building engineer is it necessary to disinfect the hvac unit and duct work in a classroom unit i'm assuming that that went for me my apology i'm sorry i was muted um can you please repeat the question because i didn't hear that i heard the disinfectant piece but i didn't hear the application the space type in a classroom is it necessary to disinfect the hvac unit and duct work in a classroom okay so in terms of disinfection um you know you have to be real careful with that term um there are uh you know the epa has a list of uh solutions that can be used uh in the cleaning of duct work and hvac equipment there are no approved disinfectants for use in duct work right so there you would follow the um i think it's the um national association of duct cleaners um recommendations and typically they use vacuum procedures and maybe some blowing compressed air procedures to clean ductwork you know you can certainly use chemicals to clean and disinfect um air handlers where you have the ability to wash down things but in duct work that ability is not there and so you cannot clean and i'm assuming that the question was referring to the interior surface of ductwork um and if that's the case then yeah you cannot use disinfectants um inside ductwork but you can clean it thanks for that sanyo the same guest has some follow-ups if we flush the building two hours before and two hours after building use during the day using co2 during the day for controlling interior spaces would this help to control the virus with a minimum fresh air at all times absolutely increasing ventilation is one of the things that you can do to help reduce the risk of the virus in your space and getting rid of all the old stale used air bringing in fresh new air is certainly one way um is one of the best ways to do that the recommendation for um reopening a building that had been shut down is to do an air flush before the building is reoccupied and certainly the continuing recommendation is to during this particular period a flush before and after typically we'd like to see um at least three air changes um and if you can't uh get that or if you have concerns about calculating whether or not you're getting the right number of air changes in the space or for the entire facility then yes just doing two hours before and two hours after occupancy is an acceptable way of of meeting that target all right and what is the cost to install a uvc germicidal unit within a duct and how many units do you need for a given school or industrial building um i cannot speak to the cost information i apologize i don't represent a manufacturer and i don't have cost information um off the top of my head um but in terms of sizing there are a number of things that you need to look at when you look at how you're going to size that that system uh certainly um air flow speed um the duct size itself um the the um the um when you look at the uh airflow rate across the uv light dwell time matters right so the longer that that air can be in contact with that uv light the better or the more effective that light is at eradicating viruses and other things inside that light so those are and then of course um you know where the application is located and how polluted you know your air to be right so those are some of the things that you take a look at um when determining the size of the equipment for something like that i would encourage the uh the questioner to reach out to either the manufacturer's representative for the equipment that they're looking at or to a design engineer who can help you review and evaluate a number of different uh manufacturer's equipment thank you our next question comes from neil who asks what are you going to do about buildings with natural ventilation all natural ventilation should be prohibited because you can treat natural ventilation as you can with mechanical ventilation and with the emergence of kevin 19 natural ventilation should be prohibited um you know if you have a system for example if you were to have a building you know lots of older buildings here in michigan in particular and a lot of older homes here in michigan have have boiler systems and they don't have ventilation right so they're just relying of course on natural ventilation through the the opening of of windows or doors or the opening of dampers and such possibly for for commercial facilities um or windows there as well uh in in those particular cases where you have a concern i would look for it i would look to in-space equipment there are a number of pieces of equipment that you can bring into the space you know portable units units that can be mounted on walls that can that can provide some filtration all right and our question comes in from dave b with charter schools facility coordinator where can we get more info on recommended portable uvc units for schools sonia do you have a recommendation on that it looks like we may have lost sonia yeah we've not seen her and let's see well um i don't know uh certainly that was definitely a question for sonia i think but if chad allison or todd have any ideas uh be happy to hear them this is todd um i you know i know of at least one michigan state's authorized contractor who reps those types of equipment i'm sure they're more so i can certainly pass at least one name to you the other place i would start is simply do some research online because there are different styles and types and and so forth so i think it'd be helpful to kind of figure out what you're looking for first hello i have been there i apologize i'm so sorry my ear hit the hit the button and hung up my apologies don't worry sonia the answer is the question is being answered by one of the other speakers thank you so much yeah so i would start online and see what you can find on the various types of equipment and and then you go from there and uh again as i said we have at least one michigan state's contractor who reps that equipment and we probably have more so certainly happy to pass along names and you can contact those folks directly and is a loose fitting papr acceptable for changing filters if n95s aren't available i'm sorry can you please repeat that question certainly is a loose papr acceptable for changing filters if n95s aren't available absolutely a powered air purifier yes most absolutely that can be used all right and we have one last question before we close out today uh what percentage outside air is standard to draw in during occupied hours repeat the question please i just want to make sure i heard it properly what percentage of outside air is standard to draw in during occupied hours okay so that is going to depend on the actual application michigan's mechanical code has a criteria um and largely in accordance with ashrae 62.1 uh ventilation standard uh and the amount of air that you bring in depends on how that space is used if the space is a classroom if it's an office building if it's a bathroom um if it is a if it is living quarters um if it is a factory setting um all of these individual spaces have different criteria um i know in general you know previously and a rule of thumb was you know you always want to try to bring in uh you know 20 cfm of air per person but that's not what people really kind of um do today because we're off we're bringing in air for people and we're also bringing in air for uh contaminants are in the space like you know from the carpet and copiers and things like that so those kind of old rules of thumb may or may not be applicable i would encourage you to reach out to a um to a design engineer or if you want to if you feel comfortable referring to michigan's mechanical code yourself to determine for your particular space what the criteria might be all right thanks for all the questions everyone and i'll turn it over to sean to close us out yeah thanks sonia allison chad and todd for joining me today i think uh obviously i have a small segment in this uh but this is wonderful information just a continuation of our endeavors to try to find ways to continue to mitigate the spread of covid indoors especially as we move indoors as it ge s colder it's already quite cold in michigan but we'll continue moving indoors as the snow starts flying and that creates a lot of challenges for us to contain kovets so as i said at the outset keep wearing those face coverings when we cannot maintain social distancing or in those indoor environments where there are a lot of people because that's really going to help us cut down on transmission between people we're seeing in michigan our numbers go up quite a bit we're still still seeing uh significant outbreaks in workplaces including office spaces and those other types of environments where the public might not be coming in so make sure that you're following the recommendations and guidelines doing those health screenings requiring those face coverings doing our best to keep it out and then try to add in this piece to the best of your ability if it makes sense in your type of facility so join us next week for the conclusion when we talk about humidification when we head into winter humidity goes down sonia is going to explain why how that creates a lot of challenges for us that we'll need to pay attention to and then next week look for us from the department of labor to put together some other webinar series where we can talk more about the new emergency rules that miosha's issued and other things that we're working through so appreciate you taking the time a lot of great information today keep those questions coming and we'll see you next week