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all right welcome to an episode of e-boost Consulting podcast my name is Ryan Sigler yep Miss Chris here's our here um I manage the operations analytics here so what are we talking about here today yeah paid social advertising here today we're going to be talking about how to ensure that your lead generation is producing high quality leads that are relevant to your business sounds good sounds good yeah I think we you know we we brought this topic up because we've been getting quite a bit of work around you know lead generation campaigns especially around pay social um including paid search but we do notice like differences in you know clients um let's see strategies and expectation um for Legion campaigns in general from all the way from like you know people a business who getting into it you know for the first time all the way to like you know um some of the growing companies that's already kind of doing it kind of advanced so I thought it was a good public to kind of cover to talk about especially you know um we're running like ads for the clients you know it's easy to get the leaves in many way but I noticed that the struggle of kind of getting the high quality quality leads if you will like you know just because we're getting like leads like doesn't mean it's good they might ghost they might not respond to the sales people who for falling out those leads so you know there's a lot of things we could do on the back end but also on the front end like on a paid social Page search side you know there's a lot of techniques there can actually use to kind of optimize right and you know I thought it would be good for us to kind of you know discuss that a little bit yeah yeah I totally agree um you know generating leads on paid social specifically meta Facebook Instagram in terms of lead volume can be pretty easy to do um you know it really comes down to just ad copy and targeting and whatnot incentive there's a lot of on platform types of you know lead generation so you can do lead generation on platform through instant forms or for lead ads or you can send traffic directly to a website but either way you always come back to the issue of lead quality and how how what's your real cost per lead you have one cost per lead which is essentially the cost to get that lead in the first place but then you have a real cost per lead on equality that's sometimes difficult given the standard parameters and advertising to do so we've got a couple tactics that we do here at e-boost Consulting and we'll talk about some of those but yeah Chris I mean what do you think's like the first in your opinion what's what's what are the first things you do talk to a client to determine yeah generation goals and quality for me yeah I think that the most important thing at first is like to really understand the client's business and also their kind of definition of quality because quality could be very subjective right for a certain business who are selling products directly to you know uh the consumers but actually want the leads because they want to build up the base before they start selling directly uh rather educational products and stuff like that or business software on a big b side you know uh where they got sales people involved in the sales process after like you know the marketing gets good quality so definition is quite different so um some companies will define leads as just hey any leads that come online uh but it's not a Gmail Hotmail address uh but soon to realize like oh yeah I'd be giving too much of that but at the same time people who are responding to us actually showing signs of like you know opportunities or some kind of a deal making um they realize like oh it's coming from certain industry or it's some kind of a job title or you know it's a it's coming from people actually uh not only uh contact us but also download advisors so there's a lot of um cues if you will or even a data within a profile and that tells us about it's a good lead or not and but that a lot of times has to come from the client or even working with us to to find out what is a good lead so it's sort of a process yeah what you're saying essentially is if I'm understanding correctly it's you're looking a lot to the client to help you define from the lead from the batch of leads that come in you're looking to them to help you define and qualify each of those leads now some of those clients will send these through crms the club spot and have their sales teams call them and activate on that but what you're really essentially establishing is some sort of feedback loop that's giving you data or information on the leads that have come in and how what the quality of those are what the quality of those are those those could be ranking scores right and then using that type of score you're able to go back and try to identify what commonalities the ones that are high quality have versus the ones that are maybe lower quality correct yeah yeah basically you know High qualities means they really kind of you know very close to making a purchase this season the closer they are to making that decision because they're intent so high that's probably every business want right they want people to buy coming into your door the reality is it's it's that so we need to we need we need different factors and parameters to really understand what that is right so you know that's where a lot of work goes into marketing as well as on the sales side a lot of what we do is you know we we look at web data and also you know adjust the campaigns change budget targeting content creatives all that all that above right so yeah I will say from strictly speaking from like a meta advertising uh repeat social I should say any type of Meta Meta platform linked in any type of like paid social advertising one of the difficult things is making optimizations on quality that happen down the funnel meaning your sales team has qualified then beta in particular they run off of a pixel they look off of like algorithmic data when a lead when a lead event fires or a lead is captured out of a site that triggers a positive response to meta to continue to find more people like that however that's not necessarily always a good lead or a great lead it treats All Leads pretty evenly so going back to what you were saying in terms of working with the clients working with their crms sales teams to establish a feedback loop what we're looking for what I'm looking for is a director in terms of like strategy is how do I take that information that I'm getting and how do I then go back and optimize my campaigns so typically what I'm looking at over ideally UTM parameters or some sort of some sort of parameter that's carried over and tracked through the entire process of the lead flow whether it's from you know mgl marketing generated lead all the way through like call schedule phone call all the way through to the purchase to you know ultimately assigned one or a purchase event and what I'm looking for are trackers that I can go back to and say aha even though this lead came in three months ago two months ago I can see that they actually came from this campaign and this ad this was the ad and this was the audience that was targeting and if I can grab those if I can get that information in Aggregate and a lot of that I can start to make really good decisions that aren't necessary necessarily on platform meaning meta might show a cost per lead and a good lead volume particular on one audience with one type of AD but that might just be generating low quality leads that might not actually be high quality leads that we're looking for so sometimes we have to do counterproductive or what seems counterproductive we're actually optimizing putting more budget behind audiences that actually appear to have a worse cost per lead and producing less lead volume on lower click-through rates lower cost per click but end up actually turning into higher percentage of closed one or sound one ultimately purchase you know clients that actually purchased so yeah I think you know Chris can you talk a little bit about some of the tactics that we've done in terms of working with our clients to better track using utms or other parameters yeah that's a good question it usually as an agency we have specific visibility and less control on certain things meaning you know a lot of time let's just you know talk about a software company because that's a good good example A lot of times software companies like no they they have a you know landing page and they have like a sign up page for free trial and from there on like you know they're their their leads will you know activate the free trial and then after a couple weeks later they'll you know talk to the sales team or you know they make the decision to kind of add the credit card information and software and then they make the purchase like a couple weeks down or maybe even a month later um but from an agency standpoint we don't have visibility in terms of a lot of times right not not always but a lot of times we don't have visibility into the customer profile information because once they go into the software a lot of times those companies don't track the Google those uh customer Behavior data with Google analytics for security reasons for compliance reasons uh you know the policy reasons and then from there on they store the customer information and of course they have to be very secure about how they maintain their customer information and credit card information so as an agency we only have certain visibility as far as tracking is concerned up until like people signed up or maybe we have some some sort of server-side integration where client will fire back and event call like oh not only they signed up but they actually tried and they start using the product so they will send that event back to GA or something like that so from an agency standpoint we have it's where they came from using UTM Source medium and which campaign and you know how long they came to their website what content to look at and what kind of conversion events like generative lead and then from now on you know a sophisticated company will give us a lot more color into like oh they actually tried or they actually churned or they actually added the credit card so the more information is we can actually say this campaign actually converted and the cost per lead was this but even further down the cost per the conversion down the funnel was even better or worse so we had more visibility and performance at that level now how we package that insight into like how we optimize the targeting that's where our team like analytics team will come back with the customer data about hey Ryan like this actually converting costly uh this campaign has even though consequently is good uh the other campaign that looks like a bad CPL it's actually much better from the pipeline perspective because actually people are actually closing more over this campaign so you might want to look into that so usually we provide back you with that Insight along with maybe things like oh hey turns out like people who are actually buying the software are actually coming from this industry more so than the other industry so does this say does this mean like you know meta ads could be more adjusted to kind of go after more of a you know purchaser that's an industry of manufacturing you know semiconductor that is like you know so I think there's a profile side and behavior side right um and maybe you could tell me more about you know you can actually use that data to you know optimize the campaign side yeah definitely I know that for SAS types of clients those are exactly the types of audiences that we're looking at and again just going back to what I was saying before you know a lot of times on meta if we just go off of what it's saying their algorithm is designed to constantly just get as many leads as possible and so essentially if you're just looking at metadata or LinkedIn data in a vacuum that we're just looking at cost per lead and just lead volume optimizing trying to find the best audience that produces the most leads at the cheapest cost essentially but having that type of feedback loop with the clients um is ideal now another factor that makes it really difficult is what are called like attribution Windows attribution windows are essentially you know meta is let's just say a seven day is it seven to typically it's a seven day click one day View generation will also we just do seven day click and what that means is essentially is when the lead event fires on the website or someone fills out an instant form that has to turn into a lead that from that clip point to where they become a lead has to happen within seven days for it to count some people are going to click and they're not gonna fill out their form they're going to wait 8 10 12 days before they become a lead a lot of those leads just do not get accredited to that ad at all they happen we know they happen because we talk to the clients we can see the data but we can't actually attribute them back to a specific campaign so that's one factor but the part that makes it exponentially more difficult is ideally for like a SAS client or something like that you would need them to become not just a lead but you want them to go through the entire lead funnel the entire lead flow and actually become a closed quad for us purchaser all within seven days to be able to feed that data automatically back into meta so that you're optimizing not just for lead but maybe your purchase also for whatever event you ultimately want as we know I mean how many clients are able to convert especially like high priced SAS types of businesses how many of them are able to convert within seven days like that's a big ask a lot of clients don't necessarily aren't able to do that typically not to name names or any clients but I can think of one in particular you know their typical sales process from the to converted site one is like three to four months on average you know and so they're clearly a B2B type of SAS product but in that case how do we tie in that data that comes in four months later along with all the ones in between that come in some people will convert in two weeks some people will convert in seven days unlikely but some people will some people take a month so people take two months but on average it takes about four months for someone to get from lead to converted purchaser and how do we then make decisions on games on campaigns that we had running four months ago we have to take all that data and look at it and go backtrack them as best we can back to the audience back to the ads the campaign that these purchasers here we are four months later originated from from campaigns that were running four months ago and that typically is a you know it's an uphill bound it's a difficult thing to do but it's something that we have a lot of experience doing uh here at e-boost and you know I don't I gained a lot of experience doing that over the last two years here in particular uh more so and I think that's what really makes us unique I don't think there's a lot of agencies that are poised today set up with the advertising and data analytics side that are able to yeah the you brought up a good point about the time and volume because you know the attribution window is one constraint that we have right um so from that perspective you definitely want to feed you know fresh data to Facebook as much as possible with volume because if this knows this significant volume for Facebook to make decision on then that's another data point that's quite useless because you know let's say you have one conversion or purchaser within a seven day period um that one conversion may not mean so much compared to a business that could generate like conversions a day so Facebook could learn fast within the time time frame but again that's the kind of data we look for is like how much volume do we get out of these kind of like people who convert who are looking at specific content maybe we need to mark it up with a custom event or something like that so that Facebook could make decisions around this you know timely data volume data um but going to your point about okay if you do get that that's great then you have more leverage for Facebook to learn make better decision but let's say a lot of those volumes are coming outside though or a lot of that it really data that Facebook just can't have like you know um you know like people who are in a certain industry or a certain age group or demographic or some something about the unique business right that we learn um you know you know Auto industry that's doing our Windows tending or people in a general contracting doing Roofing it's like you know once we learn like oh these are the people who are actually buying then for you you can't really teach the Facebook from what I heard from you is that you can't really teach the the pixels if you will or the you know Facebook in certain way but at least you can actually make maybe something by creating a campaign setting up a interest category that's resonating with that kind of industry right yeah so and you can uh you can also take all of those people so let's say in this example they were talking about for like a roofing industry you can take all the people who have converted have submitted their data to you in the roofing industry and take that and create what's called a custom audience which is where you're taking all of your CRF data about these people and uploading that back into meta and it hashes all the data it's not actually taking keeping it in a safe manner but it does hash all the data but it looks for comp it tries to identify each of these people are automatic who their profiles are on Instagram Facebook what websites what commonalities they essentially have and then you can build look-alike audience look-alike audiences off of that so you can tell them that I'm like hey here are all the people who have become leads in roofing contractors that category for my business and find me one percent of the US population who look somewhat like these kinds of people and you can also layer additional interests in there so to give it more directional accuracy you can also say must look like this type of audience the seed audience of password reverse but also must have interest in Roofing industry or some job titles or whatnot and sometimes you'll put like age demographic ranges in there to try to get more decision makers as opposed to like entry level employees in a certain field so those are some ways that we can take data for like closed one purchasers later and try to push and nudge the algorithm in the right direction and also what I'm saying I say meta I speak a lot of that Facebook Instagram platforms that we run on but we do obviously do this on LinkedIn and other platforms as well and they all generally work at the same with the same Concepts behind them yeah it's yeah all this stuff is very informative because like a lot of you know at the end of the day you know the client also have to have a good you know um data hygiene if you will yeah first of all the campaigns it needs to be marked over UTM so that you know when we look at the user Behavior data which typically comes out of web analytics was like Google analytics uh for for a lot of companies that use analytics that's inclusive of the you know the front end as well as the back end like after they log into the tool like they'll use tools like you know mix panel like Heap but the point is that usually you know the the top-notch companies are usually got this data hygiene right and then not only that but you know they they have a good kind of data practice that allows you know the agency as well as their marketers to kind of access to customer profile data which sits in a CRM like Salesforce so that they have insights around hey this is what the sales is actually uh getting good response from and here's all the data points that's really kind of meaningful for marketing so that's seamless kind of like you know integration with the data and the conversation uh the less barrier we have working with that type of data tools uh it also helps us marketers to kind of do better job on the campaign management side right so and of course you know a lot of companies who have all this stuff capabilities lined up that's great the companies that don't have this capabilities line up the first things first is yeah at least that's you know create assumptions or at least create a data dictionary that we can network with like hey we don't want leads that's Hotmail or Yahoo we want specific job titles or we want somebody who actually um expressed interests but not only interest but also they they came back and did something or took action after the fact that I became a lead so all this kind of like criteria is actually going to be important for us to kind of work work with yep yep all very good points yeah I mean there's a lot of things you know even from a marketing perspective or an advertising perspective just doing the simple things like making ensure the campaign is named properly an audience is named properly the ads are named properly because nothing's worse than having kind of get smashed up not emotionally and then try to desperately backtrack from that data that comes in three four months later backtrack to some campaign or something that was running with some messed up naming scheme or something like that so that's a you know that's a pain another thing we didn't really talk about much was uh like offline uploads so offline uploads are essentially where you take your see take your data from CRM re-upload it back into metal that helps this prolong that attribution window where it's typically the seven day click this theoretically is a 28-day attribution window for the Top Line uploads but honestly They Don't Really match well there's not a lot of data the match rates are extreme essentially why I think a lot of this change in the U there already weren't great pre-ios 14.5 that was the debacle that hit advertising World April 2021 I still remember the exact date of Reckoning but um that's you know those offline uploads didn't do that well beforehand but they definitely don't do well right now everyone has got this you know yeah we have we have another episode coming up that talks about the data in integration so yeah yeah let's talk more about that then but um but yeah man uh yeah just gonna wrap up this episode um yeah the some of the key points I heard from you and also like listening to myself talking about it um definitely you know have a clear definition of your target audience so this is like a divisor you know anybody who's jumping into the legion campaign um you know understand the target audience pain point because the content we talked we didn't talk much about creating the content side but definitely those lead magnets that the action we want the prospects to take you know those are kind of like a good levers to kind of assess you know what work what not um you know so that that's going to dictate the the conversion rates and Lead quality and we talked quite a bit a lot about web analytics and CRM data where web analytics has a lot of good data around Behavior tracking you know where they came from but it obviously doesn't have information about the user profile so a lot of times CRM or Salesforce will have a lot of that information about the lead their the name address you know email address LinkedIn sales people marketing up is a good leader bad lead you know like there's a lot of data that in there that a lot of times customers have and also another thing that I heard was a you know definitely a feedback from the sales and marketing team from the client side so any insights we get from the data from the field you know um definitely those things are going to help us understand what how to adjust the targeting criteria uh not to mention about the the integration that we talked about that within the attribution window how do we get more insights into like a volume of conversion data or informative data that could educate the machine learning of the meta world if you will yeah and better using the insights to build better ads and optimize a campaign so maybe uh if I miss something here feel free to add but uh that's kind of like the key things I heard from this yeah yeah you're absolutely right we didn't even really touch on Creative messaging Concepts um if you touch on that on another episode but again it goes back to tagging and tying all that data back in what type of what type of incentive LED not just to the best lead volume or cost per lead But ultimately what type of incentive led to the highest quality of leads and that's really what you want to work on so share for sure yeah hey man this is the first first drive in a video conversation series uh this is fun uh we'll definitely uh do more of this and you know for for those uh you know who like this listen um you know have questions definitely feel free to visit our website ubisconsulting.com and uh yeah don't hesitate to contact us and reach out ask questions and we're here here to help yeah and uh like And subscribe if you found this interesting at all and yeah feel free to also leave any questions in the comments below we'll be checking those and also email us with any types of questions you have so great day that's good yeah all right thank you Ryan thank you all see