Sign North Dakota Affidavit of Title Secure

Document type sign affidavit of title north dakota secure

are you ready to make the most of your oil and gas mineral rights welcome to the mineral rights podcast get the knowledge and resources you need to manage your minerals and royalties here is your host mass dance hello i'm your host matt sands and welcome to another episode of the mineral rights podcast this episode justin and i will be interviewing a special guest but before we get started please go to mineralrightspodcast.com for the show notes and for any links mentioned in today's show please subscribe and leave a rating on itunes this is the best way you can show your appreciation and help us reach as many mineral owners that need this information as possible also i'll be announcing a contest soon for those who leave a rating review so please stay tuned and now on with the show our guest today is an experienced attorney land man and project manager with northstar energy company based in denver colorado please welcome clint gust to the mineral rights podcast hi clint hey matt thanks for having me happy to be here and have this opportunity to visit with all of your listeners yeah thanks again for coming on can you tell me a little bit about how you got started into practicing mineral law and into the world of land and tidal work sure matt you know when i was an undergraduate years ago more than i'd like to admit i went to school at a small school in southeast kansas and oddly enough there's quite a bit of shallow oil and gas production in that part of the world and driving around you know looking at at all the the oil pumps and and rigs i you know was always kind of thinking you know that's an interesting field to work in and you know as i grew older and matured i kind of saw technology continue to grow and the onset of smartphones and flat screen tvs and part of it was you know a desire to go to law school and then part of it was kind of thinking long term about you know economic security and a field that would continue to grow and always be in demand and it you know the culmination of those things led me to focus my curriculum in law school on energy law and natural resources law and i was fortunate enough out of law school in 2004 the market was kind of down but i was able to get on with the kansas corporation commission conservation division in wichita kansas doing oil and gas regulatory law and through that i spent a few years there and then i was hired by a wichita kansas law firm to kind of work in their energy practice group and i went from there to houston and really in houston is when i kind of started focusing on the oil and gas title property law transactional law uh sector and that was in 2012 and then six years later i'm here in denver and i've been here for almost five years now and you know i kind of work work on both sides some i'll do work we do work at northstar for mineral owners and we also do work for oil and gas operators so as long as we don't have a conflict of interest we're able to play both sides because the role we do we really just research the property records and tell you know our client who owns what and we don't technically give legal advice to the client as to how they should interpret a deed or anything we tell them what we see and then you know always recommend that they consult a licensed attorney in the jurisdiction where the the property is located to the extent uh you know there are any ambiguities or issues that they need to resolve okay can you talk a little bit about some of the states that you're licensed to practice in yeah absolutely matt um i'm licensed to practice in kansas and texas and i'm currently working on waving into colorado so i'm not right now i'm not a colorado licensed attorney i'm going through the process of getting that but it's somewhat time consuming and i started in kansas and i practiced there for eight years and then i went to texas and uh been licensed in texas for six years and it title laws vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and it's always good to have a land man or a consultant who's familiar with the you know particular uh title or real estate laws of the jurisdiction in which uh your listeners minerals are located that makes sense yeah and so i guess to that point what states and and or plays or basins does northstar provide services in our our main focus mat is uh the rocky mountain states our busiest right now are colorado and wyoming we've also done work we're also doing a small work out in the permian basin in west texas currently a small project out there and we've got guys who have worked throughout the rocky mountain region and the mid-continent region so really we've kind of got guys that have experience in colorado wyoming montana utah north dakota nebraska kansas oklahoma texas new mexico and we've even done some work over towards the utica and marcellus not in a while but we've done work in new york and ohio and pennsylvania and wyoming as well okay and i know you helped me out with doing a title search and providing some of that information what other types of land services does north star provide our general bread and butter so to speak map would be kind of the abstract work for the oil and gas operator that wants to obtain a drilling title opinion or division order title opinion so they know that they have secured the necessary rights to drill a well for a drilling opinion or that they are paying the proper owners of the minerals that would be the division order title opinion and lots of times you will see those two opinions are combined where you'll just do one drilling and division order title opinion and in an abstract in essence it's where you know we have guys we have the boots on the ground that can go up into the county courthouse where the minerals are located and pull all the pertinent property records ownership records judgment records lien records and then we build what is commonly referred to as an abstractive title basically that will advise the client as to all of the various legal instruments deeds assignments etc that have been recorded against that particular tract of land where the minerals are located so i would say the the abstract abstracting is kind of the the bread and butter of a land service company but you know we also do lots of mineral ownership reports where we've got a party who's interested in acquiring a mineral interest in a particular area and we do the same thing but kind of limit the scope of our search to uh the seller that our client is going to be acquiring the minerals from and then we also do kind of what we refer to as you know a net revenue interest ownership report and that would be more for the oil and gas company that's looking to acquire a leasehold interest from another oil and gas company and in that situation we essentially verify the title that's represented by the seller and the net revenue interest the simplest breakdown of it would be we're basically telling our clients you know what percentage of uh the proceeds from a sale of each dollar their seller owns so they would say you know we'd say they have a 72 percent that revenue interest meaning you know every dollar sold of oil they get 72 cents okay i've been primarily involved with mineral acquisitions and doing mineral ownership reports and getting run sheets prepared and making sure that the person who's selling an interest actually owns that interest is is often the big concern same thing with the working interest um acquisition is that sort of what that's used for yeah absolutely matt it would be you know part of the due diligence that the buyer would run and you know the amount of time that the buyer has to to run that acquisition due diligence you know kind of depends on the size and scope of the acquisition and you know sometimes they can be as short as 15 to 30 days and sometimes they can be as long as 120 days and sometimes you'll even have the due diligence period continue after the closing to the extent there's not sufficient time to wrap that up prior to closing yeah it's essentially a similar to on the mineral side where the the working interest owner wants to verify uh that the seller owns title that's represented sure yeah now in terms of mineral owners when you look at doing a title search can you talk a little bit about the typical timing that it would take you know for example that a limited title search you're looking for a ownership report for one owner for one tract of land kind of what in your experience what's the range of time frames that that takes to get to to get that done there's going to be a few factors that could cause that time frame to very matte you know i would i would estimate that if if tidal is really clean and very simple and by that i mean if there aren't you know a lot of prior mineral severances where you know small undivided fractions of the mineral interest have been carved out and assigned out you know prior to the the mineral owner acquiring you know i would think a mineral ownership report of that nature that's very simple and clean you know that that could probably be turned around in a a week and a half to two weeks or or maybe even a week depending on you know the county the availability of the county records whether or not they're available online and can be searched you know almost immediately as soon as the landman has the description or if the landman or the land service company is actually going to have to dispatch an agent to go out into the field in the county courthouse and sort through the tracked indices books and then index all those documents and then go pull the books and look at each document individually in the courthouse and if if you've actually got to send somebody up into the field and pull the documents one by one scan them or review them and then analyze and issue your report that can take a little bit longer just due to the logistics of having to send somebody out into the field and pull each one of the books so i it kind of varies on a simple track you know it could be a week week and a half two weeks on a more complex track where there have been many many mineral severances dating back to the early 1900s that could take you know three four weeks or maybe even five weeks if it's really nasty but i would think for a ballpark estimate i would say you know two weeks to four weeks okay that helps i know a lot of people that get into this and they find out that they may have inherited some minerals or something like that they always um the first question is you know what do i do and along those lines so i know we we talked about performing a title search and memorized podcast episode 10 in terms of the basic steps that are involved we mentioned in that episode that many title searches will reveal gaps in the chain of title or other title defects that might need to be cured before someone has marketable title you know just in terms of those title defects what are your in your experience what are some of the most common issues that you've run across a great question matt you know i would say one of the most common ones that that we see is where uh the the mineral owner has used uh an affidavit of airship or an affidavit of death and airship to pass title and in in certain states such an affidavit is sufficient to pass marketable title uh to the the heirs of the decedent but in other states such as colorado or wyoming that affidavit of death and airship on its own will not actually pass marketable title to those minerals and it's a little it's an interesting play because lots of times the oil and gas company is is very eager would like to have a lease on those minerals but there hasn't been you know a probate or a determination of airship proceeding filed in that particular county for that decedent so when you look at the accounting records for that decedent or for that particular attractive property the records will show that the the person who's passed is still the owner of record of those minerals and so if it's a hot area and the oil and gas company um wants to get a lease then many times you'll see the oil and gas company will go ahead and lease the errors of that decedent based on you know an affidavit of airship or based on you know word of mouth and i know that's not a technical term but lots of times if it's a hot area the guys guys will just go in and lease it up you know based on verbal representations or the affidavit of airship and the oil gas company will assume that risk and or may assume that risk and pay that bonus you know without actually having the probate or the determination of dissent proceeding having been filed if necessary in that state but then when it comes to actual time to pay on production the oil and gas company at that time may require that the decedent sayers go ahead and file the probate of that will or file the determination of dissent proceeding if it's necessary for that intestate decedent that died without a will so i think the affidavit of airship is one thing that we see common where you know the mineral owner thinks well they've got clear and marketable title because they found that affidavit showing that you know their father their mother passed away without a will and that them and their brothers and sisters all inherited the minerals and in some states that is sufficient but in others it's not you've actually got to take another step and go to the court and get an order determining airship okay but the yeah the affidavit affidavit of airship is a big one and then uh another another curative issue that that we'll see a lot of is simply where you know the parties may have done something that they did not intend to do or says one thing and then you'll see a later clause in the same instrument that could be interpreted to do something completely different and the the curative measure there and how you fix that is a couple of things you can either do a corrective instrument where you have you know the exact same parties that were partied to the first e the grantor and the grand grantee enter into another instrument and that corrective instrument would expressly cite back to the original document that was filed of record and basically have corrective language that says this is what we meant to do uh by filing this instrument or there's another document that's called a stipulation of interest and cross-conveyance and rather than correcting the prior instrument that stipulation of interest and cross-conveyance is basically where all those parties that took interest under that original instrument get together and sign a document that says this is what we own and we cross convey to each other such that we now own in this fashion absolutely that makes complete sense and you know with with middle right owners we get a lot of questions with performing title searches and if that's something that individual right owners really should even do themselves um you know is that something an individual memorial owner can do as far as going to the county records um sometimes online sometimes in the courthouse itself and doing the research and what do they need to do to be sure and get that right yeah that's a really good question justin and you know i i would say it really depends on on the complexity of the title and the availability of the records how much time the mineral owner has and you know their sophistication and expertise and how how comfortable they are with getting you know getting things right the first time you know i've certainly had clients that have gone out and you know pulled all the tracked indices in the county and you know are spot on at identifying their their chain of title uh from their predecessor forward to them and you know have nailed it 100 correct as to what they own and uh you know what they should be getting paid a bonus on for instance but on the other hand um there there could be a certain level of you know spinning of the wheels so to speak where you know the client or the the mineral owner goes out and and spends a significant amount of time in the courthouse and you know may not get anywhere and may you know ultimately end up having waste of the day of their time but you know to the to the extent that the mineral owner has has free time on their hands most of the you know county clerks or county recorders or are fairly friendly nd will kind of guide individual owners you know and show them where they need to look to chain their title so you know i i don't want to discourage anybody from going out and trying to determine you know what they own and maybe get a baseline but you know the safest thing in my opinion would be you know once once they've got kind of that baseline or have a little bit of direction you know then consult with a a land man who who's qualified and experienced in their jurisdiction and get it get a mineral ownership report and you know they may the mineral owner may save themselves some money if they've done a little bit of that groundwork uh on the front end um but i i think i think it's always a good idea to consult with you know a land service provider on the back end especially if you've got you know when you're talking about entering into a lease or you know any sort of transaction where the the dollar amount is based on the the net mineral acres they own absolutely no that makes complete sense and to kind of piggyback on that if an individual winter right owner was to come to a company like north star rather than looking at the entire tract and all the owners you're really just looking at their specific middle interest how does an interaction like that look from a middle right owner yeah so so basically you know we we get cold calls from owners all the time or you know cold emails or cold linkedin messages um where owners will you know inquire with us about you know our experience in uh johnson county wyoming you know eg and um you know basically they just relay uh we or we ask them you know for a little bit of the the factual information about location uh whether they're you know believe they may be subject to a lease just to basic information that northstar needs to verify that we don't have a conflict of interest and so then once we once we verify that we don't have a conflict of interest and we're not working for any other clients you know in that particular legal location you know then we'll talk to that mineral owner kind of give them a general estimate estimate of the time that we anticipate you know running a search in that county we'll take our rate sheet which reflects you know the day rates reflected by the various levels of uh landman that we have working you know based on experience and then if they're comfortable with you know the estimate and the the price quote so to speak um then we'll enter into a uh we use the standard aapl form master services agreement that basically will outline the uh the contractual relationship that's entered into between the the land services company and the mineral owner and the work order being you know run title as to this mineral owner in this legal location and you know i know lots of lots of companies you know may not even formalize that relationship with a you know a land services contract or anything like that some brokers or service companies may just kind of go on word of mouth and and that's you know there's nothing wrong with that way either but typically we would enter into a master services agreement with the mineral owner just to document things for the protection of both sides absolutely that makes complete sense and is there and i know this is a bit of an ambiguous question but is there something that you guys look for with the middle right owners for it to be enough as far as like acreage or what is the the thing that you guys look for where you know it's time for you guys to get involved or is there something that really just isn't enough for you guys to get involved good question justin and you know our thing it's really almost more of a kind of a a decision as to whether or not we have the horse the workhorses you know the people with that experience in that in that particular area that have the ability and the time to serve that client in a timely fashion you know we've taken we've worked on really small deals you know where it involves you know essentially a week five days of you know one of our guys time or five days total um so we don't really have any you know threshold amount that that we will or won't accept and work for uh for a client it's kind of a case-by-case determination where we just want to make sure that uh our our our clients or the clients needs are going to be met in a timely fashion we kind of call smaller projects like that we call those one-off projects where you know it may not result in a in a ton of work from an oil and gas company going forward but at the same time you know those those clients on property and and we we do property rights searches and property ownership reports and so if it's a good fit you know for our you know our current workload and we think we can take care of that client we'll we'll take clients on without you know on a small deal so we don't really have a you know an express threshold that will we will or will not work for absolutely and i know this is kind of another ambiguous question glenn but it is there kind of a standard cost that you see or a range of costs that you see when working for middle right owners and individuals or and i know that can vary greatly depending on the workload what the issue is what the property is so aren't supported yeah and it it really does vary justin um you know i i would say that typically the the mineral ownership title while it can be you know somewhat complex and time consuming it's not typically as time-consuming and complex as you know net revenue interest ownership for oil and gas companies where you've got you know overriding royalties and net profits and all sorts of various interests that be can be carved out of that working interest leasehold estate you know of course with with minerals they can be burdened by you know non-participating royalty interests or other encumbrances or other other carve outs from that mineral interest but uh it really depends on what the mineral owner you know we'll talk to the mineral owner about okay you know we've got you know we've got these levels of experience landman you know and they're build out accordingly to the number of years of experience that they have so usually how we try to work it on something something like that for a mineral owner we would usually put you know a mid-level experience guy um you know probably three to five years on it and then we would also have a project manager uh working with that land man just to review the work and and make sure the client's being served correctly and you know i wish i could give a ballpark on you know what it what it typically costs you know to run title on a quarter section but it it varies so much just in on you know how hard carved up the mineral estate is and you know a number of other factors that i i just hate to give any sort of an estimate that you know may be completely off off base for a particular mineral owner's land absolutely i don't think there's any shame or any thought of that glenn what are the um with landmanna i know that there is um middle right owners doing reviews it's not the only thing on your plate what does a typical day look like for a lamin like yourself what do you spend the majority of your day handling you know i do a lot of uh project management and review justin so a lot of my day is spent corresponding with the other landmen that are working under my project you know kind of inquiring hey how's how's this section coming along any questions issues interpretations i can help you with where i'm reaching out to to those uh people on our team just to see if i can assist them and make sure we're staying on task for you know ultimate project deliverables to the client and then i also just get a lot of questions you know from from guys that are working on our team as to you know my thoughts on this particular instrument and the meaning of this language and how i would interpret it so it's a i would say kind of a twofold thing you know where i'm actually spend roughly 50 percent of my time actually you know reviewing and analyzing and doing substantive title work determining ownership and then the other 50 percent i would say is management where you know i'm following up with with folks to make sure we're staying on task and delivering project uh on within the project timeline and uh keeping the client happy and i get the small amount of what i do is you know kind of go out and you know what you'd call business development you know go to the industry wide the koga meetings the dapl the aapl functions and varies from project management actual substantive title work to a little bit of business development as well okay excellent we talked a little bit about some of the common title defects and sort of ways people can go about fixing them if i were a mineral owner that just inherited mineral rights and you know some of that might apply to me and you know if we're in an area for example that north star might operate in um can you talk a little bit about just sort of general recommendations about first things that people should be doing you know whether it's in a producing area or non-producing and kind of how to figure that out and and sort of what what are the first steps that somebody should do before even maybe contacting north star to to run title yeah absolutely matt so you know one one of the the first things that i think is vitally important for the mineral owner to do is um you know consult with the i guess the the vesting instrument um under which you know they would have acquired the minerals whether that would have been you know a deed uh transfer on death deed or a will and then familiarize themselves with you know essentially what needs to happen or to the extent they can you know what what needs to happen if the minerals are producing to start receiving payments on that interest and so you know to the extent that the minerals are already being produced you know the first thing that i always encourage mineral owners to do is reach out to the division order analysts with the the operator that's you know making payments on that production and usually those division order analysts you know they're really good sources of information and you know essentially the the mineral owners are kind of their clients so to speak um so they want to make sure they're happy and they can often give them you know some guidance as to um you know what sort of transfer paperwork needs to be filed with the oil and gas company to get those proceeds changed changed over to that mineral owner's name and if you know if they've already got a vesting instrument you know a deed or an assignment or if there's a will that's you know going to be probated or being probated then those division order analysts or the division order department are a really good kind of first point of contact if the minerals are producing to to find out what they need to get on file with the oil and gas companies to get a transfer of those payments now if they're if they're non-producing minerals it's a little bit different because you don't have an oil gas company that's looking to make sure somebody's getting paid so if they're not producing you know the the first thing uh if we're talking about a situation where they are acquiring them you know as a result of a deed or under an estate where somebody has passed away you know with a deed or an instrument that vests them with title obviously they will want to make sure that gets filed of record in the county courthouse because that's how third parties like an oil gas company or a land man are going to know that they have acquired the minerals and now own them and you know if it's a will then they should really consult with a an attorney that has expertise in the probate field in that state to assist them with probating it and that you don't always need an attorney to probate a will but it's probably always a good idea for your listeners to at least consult with one you know there's most states have kind of a streamlined simplified uh probate act that may allow you know the one of the errors or the you know the personal representative or the executor whatever the term is in that particular state you know they may allow that personal representative just to probate that will without using an attorney but i always think it's a good idea for a mineral owner to consult an attorney to get their take on it and then you know follow the probate requirements in that state and get that will probated um such that you can then get your you know your personal representatives deed or your executors d investing the owners with title uh under that will kind of one thing i failed to mention matt that it's important to know and for your listeners to remember to the extent the minerals are producing you know most states have you know unclaimed property laws where and it varies by state but we'll just say for example if minerals have been are being produced and the oil and gas company you know can't find the owner and you know has made good faith effort to locate the owner but due to somebody passing away and maybe the heirs not even though they own the minerals the oil gas company essentially you know has suspended making payment on those funds and holds them if a number of years have passed and that number varies by state but if say five years have passed and that state's unclaimed property laws may provide that after five years any unclaimed payments uh go to the state so there could be a situation where you know owners are losing revenue to the state simply because it hasn't been claimed and they don't know that they own it so if you're in that boat where you do inherit minerals you're not getting paid but you think you should be so you mentioned contacting the operator if you have done some due diligence and maybe you found a producing well on that tract of land so contacting the operator to find out what instrument might need to be recorded in order for them to to get paid or to what documentation needs to be provided and then the unclaimed property side of things is there anything else that anybody should do i guess if you're in that boat where you have inherited those minerals you're not getting paid you think you should be but you have these couple different avenues to go through is there any other options or is that kind of the primary um things that people should focus on at the beginning um yeah one thing they can do matt to see if um if there is production and this may be off base on the question but you know that most of the state regulatory agencies have really good websites that they can check to see if there has been production you know based on the legal description of the minerals that they own and so you can go to for example you know the texas railroad commission website and or the colorado oil and gas conservation commission website or the oklahoma corporation commission website and you can get information on what production has been occurring as to a particular legal description and so you know if the mineral owner knows they own minerals there and they want to know if they're producing it should be getting paid then they can check you know the the particular regulatory agency's website to see what they show with regard to wells being drilled or existing on that particular tract and any production on that tract then i i think usually after that the the next best step is to try to identify the operator of that well and usually that's also through the oil and gas regulatory agencies website will show that operator of that well and and i think the best first thing to do here is contact that operator and find out what what they would require and you know sometimes they may be willing just to do it if somebody died many years ago then they may be willing to just transfer issue transfer order on request you know with a copy of that will or with an affidavit of death and airship and then if you know if you've contacted the operator then at that point i would i would suggest then they go to depending on what the operator is telling them you know they at that point they probably either need to go to an attorney or maybe a land man just to get you know a clear picture of the ownership in that particular track if ownership is clear and you know it's just simply a matter of you know i guess a a recalcitrant oil gas operator that's refusing to pay for whatever reason then um then they may want to just skip the lane and go right to an attorney to start legal proceedings sometimes just getting a letter from an attorney with a potential threat of litigation can be enough to move that operator over the edge and start getting uh the mineral underpaid that makes sense yeah that is some good information and we'll link up the various state agencies in the show notes at least the kind of the major oil and gas commission websites where you can go and search for uh production data for your state like clint mentioned so just to wrap up clint you talk about you know what sort of support and resources are available for mineral owners out there what you know in addition to those state oil and gas agency websites are there any other tools or tips you would give to owners out there that can help them find out more about their minerals or research information about them yeah absolutely matt you know it it kind of depends on the county that their minerals are in but you know for instance your you guys are probably familiar with weld county colorado and the dj basin and you know weld county has a really good website it basically has an online recorder's office and it's unfortunately it's not a free service but your listeners could get really good bank for their buck if they want to go on there and you can search by you know party name or you can limit it to the legal location if they need to try to find documents under which they own there are also some other third party providers for instance in oklahoma i believe it's called oklahoma county records or ok countyrecords.com that for a for a fee you can essentially get the owners in a particular track of land or who okay countyrecords.com believes owns the minerals at a particular tract of land and i've actually had a family friend who's used that website and then there are other other third-party service providers that you know i'm not entirely really familiar with but you know one of the one of the most helpful things i think maybe just a google search if they know the county in the state where the minerals are then they can kind of just search county state and uh property records and i know that seems a little bit neolithic or or odd but if they don't know much else about you know running property records just if they've got some time online and some sophistication with the computer they can probably learn a lot about resources in that particular county just by poking around on the web yeah this is amazing how much you can find if you do a google search and especially if you're not in the in the county where the property is located so that's oftentimes the case i know where people inherit minerals in another state and so they need to try to get down to the bottom of it but yeah thankfully a lot of that information is online now so yeah we'll we'll link to weld county clerk and recorders website that's i've used that one several times and that's excellent and um ok countyrecords.com and thanks again for your time clinton if uh our listeners want to get a hold of you or to uh find you how can they do that yeah absolutely matt um they're all welcome to give me a call and my my number is area code 303 296 2119 and i'm at extension 102. they're also welcome to send me send me an email my email address is clint that's c-l-i-n-t at northstar energyco.com and that's northstar energyco.com and they can also find find our website online at northstar energycode.com also on linkedin and and facebook and you know i'm not a great social media guy but uh i'm on twitter too but if you've got some social media savvy listeners they're certainly welcome to uh linkedin me or facebook message me or tweet me sounds great thanks again for your time and uh we'll talk to you later again thank you man i appreciate it have a good day and that's the show thanks again for listening and thanks to clint gus lots of valuable information in this episode i hope that you found it as informative as i did if you have any questions or comments please email me at feedback mineralwritespodcast.com or you can leave a voice message at 720-580-2088 where you can be featured on the show or leave a comment at the bottom of the show notes at mineralrightspodcast.com and like we always say if this episode was useful the way you can say thanks is by leaving us a rating and review on itunes it only takes around a minute and will help us reach other mineral owners who need this information and until next time take care thanks so much for listening to the mineral rights podcast with your host matt sands don't forget to subscribe and share at mineral middleweightspodcast.com the mineral rights podcast should not be construed as investment legal or tax advice all information is believed to be from reliable sources however we make no representation as to its completeness or accuracy you