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we are now get into the next sessions for the second keynote of today and for it is my pleasure to introduce our next keynote and i just want to share with you some story that i have spent quite a lot of time to think about what should be the topic for the keynote for this conference i spend i don't know how many days just to think of the name of the topics but one i fill in all the name with these keyword active transdisciplinary engineering competence development and intelligent manufacturing era when i combine all these work together the name pop up almost immediately that the one that i would like to invite to give us the presentations is professor david rosen professor rosen is a professor in the school of mechanical engineering at the georgia tech institute of technologies he is director of the rapid prototyping and manufacturing institute at georgia tech additionally he is the research director of the digital manufacturing and design center at singapore university of technologies he has the experience about additive manufacturing and what you will hear from his presentations you will see that he has various kind of expertise and experience that he will share with you for today's presentation may i invite professor rosens to give a presentation well hello um let's see good evening good morning good afternoon depends on where you are thank you very much for this opportunity uh to uh to give a talk um i hope uh you can see my screen and hear me is everything all set it looks great okay sounds good um right so uh uh again thank you very much for that kind introduction um as uh professor pizot said um i'm david rosen i have a faculty appointment at georgia tech uh in the us and also i i helped run a research center at the singapore university of technology and design where i was fortunate enough to be able to spend two full years on leave of absence from georgia tech and i maintain a part-time position there let me introduce a little bit about the two universities that i'm part of so uh at georgia tech um let's see we are a uh a mid-size i'd say uh public uh university that's focused on technology we have six colleges including the college of engineering the college of engineering is the largest of about 65 percent of the total student population there and our mechanical engineering uh school is the the largest mechanical engineering school in in the us uh singapore university of technology and design is is uh similar but very different in in other ways so sutd was created uh in the late 2000s and i i call it the innovation you it's it's really it was it was created to do something different to not be a traditional university but rather to focus on um technology and and design and really to to try to educate the next generation of technological leaders for singapore so singapore is so sqtd is a fairly small specialized university uh here's a rendering of it but it pretty much looks looks like that right now um and uh so matriculated its first students in in 2011. and like i said it's pretty small so there's less than 1500 undergraduate students about 350 graduate students of various kinds uh and and rather than organize themselves into colleges departments or schools they organize themselves into four pillars engineering product development engineering systems and design architecture and sustainable design and information systems technology and design essentially most of engineering industrial engineering architecture and computer science okay um so as as pisa i'm sorry i'm sorry professor i'm not sure if you want to share uh some presentation but we are not seeing that presentation ah okay we are seeing your your video uh you are supposed to be seeing a video or sorry a presentation now can you see uh see my screen yes yes browser and there's the presentation yes that's it okay okay all right all right so uh isn't technology wonderful and distance learning great uh maybe we need reform uh yeah okay uh right so uh georgia tech um s-u-t-d uh the quote from the prime minister of singapore uh here's uh the sctd uh campus and uh like i said here's the four pillars okay all right moving on uh so so here you know is is the title of my talk and um when when pizot asked me to to give this talk i had to take a minute just to parse this title and and figure out what this is all about so uh the main elements here right intelligent manufacturing competence development transdisciplinary engineering education i had to then figure out what i knew about this and what i was interested to learn about it and uh anyway so i have an idea about intelligent manufacturing uh because it's related to what i do um and and really uh in this emerging notion of intelligent manufacturing human cyber physical systems are very very important um then we've got competence-based manufacturing education they've wanted a really an emphasis on on manufacturing here so we have to understand the work environment where competencies are uh important in that work environment and that led me to you know kind of learning factories and also maker spaces and then transdisciplinary engineering education right we want to break down the barriers between disciplines and then i immediately thought of a place that i was sitting at at that time which was singapore university of technology and design so i will talk more about uh that university and the curriculum and then the closure um again i think it's really important to to highlight these human cyber physical systems uh their emergence again i'll talk a lot more about this as we go along um and and really to me uh you know this title is leading us to to ask the question of how do we educate uh people how do we educate engineers to be able to design these human cyber physical systems realize operate them and and you know operate and and really thrive in the kind of environment where these hcps's are very prevalent i'll use this icon throughout my talk that uh illustrates an advanced human cyber physical system uh basically the idea is that cyber system is becoming more and more capable automating a lot of the things on the physical plant side of course but also helping the the uh the human uh to take over a lot of the more mundane tasks that the humans do uh and and let the humans focus more on the higher level analysis decision making and communication that's really important to ensure these human cyber physical systems operate smoothly right so again uh question here is how should the next generat generation of engineers be educated for this new emerging era and the characteristics i think of of these human cyber fiscal systems and kind of the overall environment is of course we have advanced technologies um but it's it's really the system level interactions that are that are important that are critical uh and so people the humans responsible for these systems need to understand how the systems operate what these system level interactions are um of course they need to design them but they also need to maintain and improve uh these these systems diagnose things when things go wrong and that that requires a really good understanding of these system level interactions and then finally uh the other characteristic here is uh humans are part of this they're they design and operate and maintain et cetera the hcps's but they're also the customers of these human cyber physical systems uh they're the stakeholders that are engaged in them and so we have to be cognizant of not only of the interactions we want and desire for and that actually delivered uh with these uh hcps um we should also keep in mind that you know we're looking for the human experiences for positive experiences etc so again we want our engineering graduates in this case to become leaders uh in this new emerging era of these advanced human cyber physical systems um so much of the way i'm talking about hcps comes from a chinese initiative really that's being run by the chinese academy of engineering and hajon university science and technology and yes i know there's a lot of other people doing things in this era in this area in china and around the world um a lot of good stuff going on um but you know this icon and some of the figures and ideas just just come from this initiative right so a little bit more about what these guys are talking about in terms of intelligent manufacturing is shown here uh in the context of you know human cyber physical systems we've got the human operator and user on the left right over here um and like i said the the cyber system is uh taking over uh taking over right robots are rising up no they're uh you know automating a lot of the things that happen on the physical system side and then also taking over some of the lower level menial duties that people have historically done and again freeing up the human user and operator to focus more on analysis decision making you know control communication etc the other thing to note is simply is that these kind of systems tend to be built on cloud computing so that enables distributed uh interactions distributed uh systems etc which has a lot of advantages and and i should also note focused on intelligent manufacturing per se that we're talking about intelligent equipment um so you know individual cnc machines and things like that we're talking about work cells uh workstations agvs that move you know the material around in the factories the entire factory floor and then we're also talking about the supply chains that really can deliver finished product to customers across the whole spectrum all right so let me move on all right so again this this emerging notion of intelligent manufacturing is is of course highly related to industry 4.0 the work environment here is going to be characterized increasingly by small decentralized smart factories of course we'll have large centralized factories but the this kind of technology enables small decentralized factories as well but even you know these small factories can be integrated into a larger ecosystem larger supply chain value chain etc but the technology will allow them to act autonomously and agile they can respond quickly the workers in these kind of environments um again a lot of the menial stuff is being automated so uh those people will need to be creative innovative uh communicate with others etc and in fact that really uh highlights the competencies that need to be realized by people working in these in these kind of factories and in this kind of environment right so we can talk about personal competencies uh social and interpersonal personal competencies action related and domain so that kind of moves us into uh confidence-based manufacturing education so i think we're all familiar with the traditional ideas here about you know apprenticeships and apprenticeships being used to train manufacturing technicians and things like that still a very good way to to train people but when we think more broadly about undergraduate and education we have a different model and different needs and and really different objectives in the education part of it right so the intelligent manufacturing environment is more characterized by the picture on the on the right here with highly automated equipment agvs assembly lines etc and the people uh are involved in in this kind of factory floor through computer interfaces cloud computing etc right that's the environment so a couple of uh just kind of notions about competency from a big picture perspective of course you know we can always look at these hierarchies of well like it's it's related to bloom's taxonomy right information knowledge action and then confidence is on top of that so really in this model from from north we're looking at confidence being um really the ability to uh to act and then understand uh in a robust manner so whatever the situation calls for you have the confidence to act according accordingly this other model i find interesting as well it's a little bit different but it has the same sort of hierarchical build up from knowledge and skills to qualification um but rather than focusing on kind of robust uh robust response it says you know the people with competency need to fit into the culture of the place they need to understand the norms and values and rules to be really successful in that kind of environment that leads us to the four competency types right personal social and interpersonal action related domain related etc so for personal it really means you understand your role in the enterprise uh it means that you need to take responsibility for your own uh learning um and and kind of you know you're in control of your career what do you need to do what's the best thing that you should be able to do right now et cetera um social interpersonal and i think the former prime minister said this really well what separates us from the robots is our ability to communicate and socialize and things like that so um again that that set of competencies uh the ability to act um very successfully in a group of people in a culture in an ecosystem is critically important action-related competencies are related to you know the idea that a situation arises you need to understand it and then take action we need to feel empowered to take that action but if that action might not be yours alone so you might need to communicate and collaborate with a group of people to then have a socially constructed action plan with which you then proceed and then domain related simply means that you need to understand the technology right you need to be good at manufacturing understand the materials but also understand uh the automation that is operating the factory operating the facility etc i need to understand where the inputs come from where the outputs go so you kind of have to be a jack of all trades from a technical perspective that's a tall order uh so chris is going to be boundaries but you can always learn uh as as time goes on so one of the ideas that uh was initially developed in europe and in germany in particular to transition uh from training uh technicians to educating engineers was the learning factor this began in the late 1980s with the idea of establishing again kind of a factory floor but in a manner that facilitates uh engineering education and so over there over time uh these learning factories have proliferated uh there's a real uh kind of the second wave in about 2004 2005 where this idea got more widespread uh interestingly enough around 2010 a conference series was started on learning factories and we've seen a a real explosion in the interest of these things um the learning modes are very much um a combination of what i'll call minds on or you know it's kind of the traditional uh education approach of lecturing and classroom work and things like that but then also hands-on experiential learning and the curricula for these learning factors have been designed very intentionally with specific learning objectives in mind and then you design the learning factory the physical facility and designed the curriculum and education activities accordingly so a few different examples of the learning factory at the technical university of darmstadt in germany educating bachelors masters and phd students their particular implementation they had nine machine tools and two assembly lines and so the students in this program would actually you know fabricate the parts for a pneumatic cylinder assemble finished pneumatic cylinders on the assembly lines oversee the production and and do everything else related to the manufacturer and assembly of this particular kind of product okay um they developed a curriculum with 17 courses um and and one of the unique things that they did was they said well as this idea of intelligent manufacturing emerges what are the main challenges that we see what are the main challenges that we want to have our our graduates address and those are listed uh uh four challenges on the on the left right over here uh the 17 courses are laid out here and the relationship between the challenges of courses are illustrated so again a very intentional design program another example of the technical university of gene uh in austria uh they had a similar kind of overall perspective but they decided to focus on what they called sce ario-based learning so the student groups would be given a scenario for example there's a need to substantially decrease delivery time and and with a focus on the assembly operations and the assembly line that they have at the t moving um so the students with the instructors identify a set of tasks that they should do flesh those out and then execute them and in the while they do that the students are expected to learn about a set of competencies and achieve competence in these various areas right their particular implementation looks like this they their product was more complex than that pneumatic cylinder it was a 3d printer with over 200 parts and they had again a set of scenarios that they've developed that you know kind of called small and medium and large um that facilitates different kinds of education activities right so i think in the in these two cases these are definitely both um these advanced human cyber physical systems uh the learning factors themselves and then the the graduates become um well at least they're on their way to becoming experts to operate in these kind of hcps an example from the u.s clemson university uh is actually very similar to georgia tech and it's in a neighboring states south carolina in the southeastern part of the united states so our clemson university created their international center for automotive research a little over 10 years ago it's it's really unique in the u.s i should also note that bmw has a major major facility about 40 minutes away from clemson uh and they were heavily involved in the creation of this so there is a really strong automotive ecosystem in this area so this is a graduate program with ms and phd programs and along the lines students will participate in an internship either in industry or at clemson university itself in an intense six-month program where a group of students design and build a a new kind of car so this is a an example which is different from those those european learning factories uh but it's uh but it's in a sense very appropriate for the for the us it's a different sort of model for for graduate education um and so you know the students are not working with automation per se uh like an automated assembly line or factory floor but they're learning about design and engineering and then looking at this in terms of well they have to design something very new build a prototype um so they're getting a different kind of experience but in a sense equally valued in so in a different sense this is a human cyber physical system where it's really more the product is the this hcps as opposed to a learning factory in the in that european sense then the other example i'll use is uh well from where you're at the asian institute of technology professor pisa cumcept is leading this this effort and uh over the last couple of years he and his students have developed what they call the love model of learning what stands for learning observing visiting and experimenting they're using this model of learning in this large program they have with a number of european and thai universities to develop this industrial engineering curriculum you can see that the layout of the entire curriculum here was courses uh in these five areas industry 4.0 technology design decision science engineering management and soft skills and then each of the university partners and i assume that many of you are partners in this program as well are developing individual courses here that will all stitch together into this large program underlying the program will be a set of physical uh facilities uh at different universities and so the fiscal facility the learning lab at ait uh looked like this a few months ago again you know there's a strong push here for machine tools of various kinds uh instrumented machine tools and sensors on them automation like agvs and material handling systems and things like that so you know i think that the the design of this curriculum and the individual facilities again are very much these human cyber physical systems that should help prepare graduates to be successful in these emerging sorts of environments i also wanted to say a little bit about maker spaces so maker spaces are really informal learning environments uh you know without a formal curriculum but they still have learning objectives and they achieve those objectives in various ways so at georgia tech we have actually one of the largest maker spaces uh in in the u.s housed within mechanical engineering but accessible to any student from on campus um so we've got uh about 70 undergraduate students that act as prototyping instructors that is they're experts on the equipment they help train other students on the equipment maintain the equipment et cetera there's a two to three thousand students will use this facility every semester there's three main rooms about three thousand square feet total and you can see a list of equipment here it's also adjacent uh to our machine shop a professional machine shop that we call the montgomery machining mall and then adjacent to the lab space for a sophomore level design course called md2110 so here's a photograph of the invention studio looking at the main doors of the invention studio from outside so just for some reference here here are those main doors and that photo was taken from about right over here so the invention studio is this main room metal shop wood shop montgomery machining mall is over here and the design lab is over here so what i thought i would do now is show a couple of videos let's see here not sure if you can get the the sound but i'll try to talk over it so just a few snapshots of georgia tech and then the main mechanical engineering building we go into the second floor uh take a left uh a right and then here's the invention studio again we have a lot of equipment a lot of 3d printers a big work area uh etc all right we'll just let this go for another couple seconds here again here's a shot of the interior of the invention studio and we'll stop that and then go on um to the next video here uh so um and we we have a capstone design program as i think everyone else does um being in the largest college of engineering in the u.s we have about a thousand students or 1200 students every every semester that take the course um and across the the entire college and then at the end of the semester we get together to have a capstone expo so that brings together uh 2 500 to 3 000 people um you know the students obviously other students parents industry etc so a lot of these projects are sponsored by industry and we have a big party a big big exposition of showcasing all the projects and the prototypes uh posters and things like that and then at the end of the capstone expo after a couple of hours of people being able to walk around there's a big award ceremony so we fill our basketball stadium uh with again you know several thousand people and again have a big celebration of the accomplishments of the students [Music] okay so let me come back to the presentation let me come back to the quizzes right here we go all right right so again a screenshot of the uh of the invention studio big work area you can see the uh 3d printers off here to the to the right the bank of these another bank of 3d printers behind there some other ones up here uh an electronics area uh because a lot of the the products a lot of the projects that the students do will be mechatronics so they'll be a combination of mechanical electrical and computer science of course we have a metal shop with hand tools and sheet metal and two water jet cutters things like that a wood shop the montgomery machining model as i mentioned is is really the professional machine shop five technicians here a lot of a lot of equipment things like that so this is more of a maker space more of an informal learning environment it's not meant to be uh really you know a learning factory per se with a structured curriculum it's more meant to be a sandbox or a playground where it supports informal learning having said that it is highly integrated into several courses in our curriculum so that does play an important role but it's not the automation there's no so now let me move on and talk about the singapore university of technology and design and really focus on what i think is a good example of transdisciplinary engineering education right so again we kind of have this hierarchy of discipline words and terms uh and transdisciplinary is kind of the highest level here meaning that we've gotten rid of the barriers between disciplines and achieved high integration among them okay so singapore university technology and design right a better rule by design again the tagline here is to try to educate technically grounded leaders and innovators for the 21st century so from a university perspective they've developed what they call an outside in curriculum i'll explain so they really started with a question what do people need well people need products people need services and people need systems and so they started with this idea hey here's what people need and they develop the curriculum accordingly so i'll explain further right so uh that really means that they came up with these four pillars that are illustrated here um products so that's engineering systems and design services that's uh to some products engineering product development what am i talking about services um computer science information systems and technology engineering systems and design to some extent um if we think about the built environment products are also architecture and then when we think more generally about services again we come back to engineering systems design architecture and sustainable design to a certain extent etc so at sutd all the students all the undergraduate students take the same courses for their first three semesters so they get a good foundation um that that's really shared across the entire university at the end of those three semesters they choose a pillar to go into so in the second and third years they take pillar specific courses they continue their education and of course at senior level they also take a two semester capstone design course and so each group in capstone design needs to be what needs to have students from at least two different pillars a couple other things about the curriculum so the teaching mode here is very much problem-based and project-based learning so students perform over 30 projects through their entire curriculum for your curriculum generally speaking somewhere around 10 of those projects will be design projects another interesting aspect that they've introduced here is the idea of 2d 3d and 4d projects and the d here really means horses all right so at the at the freshman level second semester they take their first design course um for about three weeks during that semester they do a mini project with one of their other courses so for example uh if they're developing a product or whatever their project is in the design course if they want to do some math modeling of that device project product whatever it might be they then talk to their math professor uh develop a math model of it and so they kind of have this two course integrated experience as they go through the rest of their courses they will get some projects that involve three courses and then at the senior level capstone really integrates across all four pillars and for the courses that they take like i said project-based problem-based learning so a lot of active learning a pretty low student faculty ratio and then again in the first three semesters the students are in 50 student cohorts they essentially go to one classroom in the morning take all their classes in that classroom professors come into that classroom and go um and so you see a photo of one of these cohort classrooms what you don't see is on the other side of one of these walls is a small workshop so there's a lot of hand tools over there and two uh 3d printers so students can um you know do the engineering do the communication do the computing part in the classroom and then go into the workshop build small prototypes and really have the whole experience here now if they have larger fabrication needs then they can go to the fab lab fabrication lab which is a separate three-story building that has 11 full-time technicians in it and just three three floors of uh equipment and build areas it's really a fabulous facility uh and then they're also really big on course exhibitions so every semester five to ten courses will we'll have one of these kind of exhibitions in this large meeting space in the center of campus right so i talked about an outside in curriculum uh talked about the four pillar structure of the of the academic units let me focus specifically on engineering product development as an example of a transdisciplinary engineering education so ed epd has faculty from mechanical electrical electronic and biomedical engineering from material science and physics so the unit itself is is highly interdisciplinary and the curriculum is highly integrated so i think this is an example of a transdisciplinary education uh engineering education program of course you have your core uh courses and core you know engineering courses things like that students then over their uh second third and fourth years will specialize in one of seven or eight concentration areas including robotics a new one called beyond industry 4.0 uh computer engineering healthcare engineering etc so again let me go to a video so here's the the president of sutd talking about the genesis of of sutd uh again showing one of these cohort classrooms and things like that he's talking about the partners for sutd so it was really created in collaboration with mit in the u.s um and then jejong university in china is another partner use he uses the term cross disciplinary here's our old uh head of pillar in epd so again uh talking about the outside in development of the curriculum ask what the world needs and then design the curriculum [Music] [Music] um so hopefully that gives you a bit of a taste of sutd what it looks like what it kind of feels like so i'll come back to to this slide about product services and systems what people really need and then we can focus on a couple of these so you know smartphones are again pervasive uh they're physical products that you that you buy that you have that you hold but the real value is the services that are delivered through the product and that um you know that so it really means it's a product uh service system communication education etc and but the systems behind the scene uh are are very large and complex and very critical in being able to deliver those services and the point here is i mean everyone knows about smartphones and things like that but more and more uh products are becoming smart services are being delivered through products and so this notion of product service systems is going to become more pervasive more important et cetera if you have a tesla right it's transportation service but it's also kind of an entertainment service on wheels and then when you think about automated driving automated vehicles you know the cars need to talk to one another cars need to talk to the infrastructure to the roads to the facilities and again there's hugely complex systems behind the scenes managing all this and and you know from from an educated perspective you know this is our future so we've got to prepare uh engineers and and more broadly you know our citizenry for the kind of environment where these are prevalent and and and they're they're ubiquitous right so we need people who can design these kind of systems and and really uh innovate we need people who can maintain them and operate them we need people to develop the systems behind the scenes and um you know so the the uh well the opportunity but also the responsibility here is is huge because um these kind of product service systems don't fit into any disciplinary you know categories that have been defined um so you know we can't just uh educate really really good uh mechanical engineers who know everything about linkages and gear trains and heat exchangers we need people who have a good depth of knowledge but then also understand how thes products interact with services how people use them what the user experience is and of course the systems that underlie everything everything from computing and networking to telecommunications and the system science that makes it all work right so how should the next generation of engineers be educated well again we have to realize that many things are becoming smart uh many of the products that we buy these are human cyber physical systems we have to understand that understand their characteristics and and you know really think differently uh reorient our our whole disciplinary mindset here to focus on what these systems need uh uh to you know in their conception and their operation um uh how do we extend their life uh how do we build robustness and reliability into these systems etc uh so you know the big answer here is well transdisciplinary engineering education but you know that that's that's an answer without much meaning so we really have to flush that out and again i think that sutd's uh engineering product development pillar their curriculum is a really good example i think it's it's fairly unique uh certainly in singapore and asia but also really unique in the world right so obviously we have to go beyond understanding uh we've got to build competency uh in a wide range of different different aspects and that's going to require new approaches to minds on hands-on experiences for the students so just a reminder that this is the outline of my whole talk here i talked about intelligent manufacturing a bit about confidence and competency transdisciplinary engineering education and hopefully motivated the idea that this new emerging world of advanced product service systems and human cyber physical systems is going to require some different approaches and different ideas in terms of education so thank you very much for your attention if i've left any time i'd be happy to take questions i'd like to acknowledge of course of the universities that i'm affiliated with especially the digital manufacturing design center at sutv and of course the conference leadership for giving me this opportunity so again thank you very much i'd be happy to take any questions i think thank you very much for very interesting talk and i think uh our participant can see that many places have tried to move the way from the traditional or the classical way of learning and try to have many hand-on experience for other students okay now we will have question and answer sessions do we have any question from the floor okay any question from the floor here we have from professor khan yes professor i believe that different countries from developed that country and developing country may have different in terms of student perspective could you please suggest how developing countries like thai people or thai students can adapt themselves for digital era that is coming right now thank you yeah that's a that's an interesting question i guess that the first thing that came to mind is um that to to some extent that's going to happen naturally because uh children start using smartphones from an early age and they're just they're naturally these digital uh citizens they they you know communicate they participate in social media they get entertained through smartphones and tablets and things like that um but what what do they do beyond that that smartphone experience well you know again i think um so to some extent this is going to be a question for the educators uh both k through 12 or what we would call k through 12 as well as a university to be able to adapt to um you know these sort of natural digital uh savants the people that are extremely good with using some technology and allow them to use and build on those kind of skills in in their in in their education um so apart from that uh it's it's hard to really um i think propose anything specific for what individuals can do uh if they're if their society isn't sort of going to allow them opportunities so i'm not really sure how else to answer this question but just to encourage the educators to build on what the students are going to already know and feel comfortable uh interacting in and again i'm referring to the social media uh through smartphones and tablets and computers so i apologize for the incomplete answer you do you have any other question from the floor okay uh how about form online do we have any questions i have a question please help say georgie and thank you a lot for your presentation it was awesome and very interesting um i would like to know it's just for curiosity um to know if you have used um some gamification or gaming methods or an agile methodologies to engage your students and keep you then motivated thank you for the opportunity well thank you um yeah the so the the gamification of education is an interesting concept and in in part um that kind of answers to some extent the previous question um as i say again you know taking advantage of of what students are naturally interacting with and things like that so more specifically no i have not experimented with gamification and my excuses i'm old and not that tech savvy well i sort of that but but uh um that that's beyond my personal experience but i think if done well uh it can be uh very compelling and very valuable i think we're seeing a number of different examples of this this game idea being implemented into uh online tools in in very clever ways uh and also being very effective so it you know the term gamification uh i think is a little bit unfortunate because it kind of says well you know yeah video games right we're wasting our time but it's more of a more of a mindset to challenge people an interesting compelling uh and somewhat authentic environment um and and to help them learn learn things through experience and so yeah it's kind of the online version of the hands-on experience that you know we've been trying to deliver through the physical systems and you know the learning factories and makerspaces and things like that yeah it's more of a cyber implementation of that same hands-on idea okay thank you thank you a lot any other questions okay we have a question can you read it let me i don't wanna so i'm sorry i'm struggling with my uh yeah so you see let's say in the chat yeah i'm trying to get to the chat i don't know how to do that the question is transdisciplinary that we mentioned is heavily focused on design and product development how would you compromise the wide range of knowledge with various students on this education sorry could you reread the first part of that again okay i will recently transparently that we mentioned is heavily focused on design and product development how would you compromise the wide range of knowledge with various students on different backgrounds well yeah so i think this is the uh kind of the central challenge of transdisciplinary education uh in the sense that uh yeah you want to build up a deep knowledge within an engineering discipline or set of disciplines uh and and then you have all these other competencies and soft skills that you want to build up as well and you have limited time in the whole curriculum so so how do you how do you do all that i don't think that there is a a magical answer i don't think there's anything that's going to satisfy everything and everyone we have to recognize a couple things first that different students are going to have different experiences and they're going to learn different things provided that the entire environment and the curriculum has been set up well you know that should be okay if we think of you know education as occurring in the four years from freshman to to senior and that's it um that that's really a limited view of education we need to think about lifelong learning and you know that over over 10 years you're going to learn a whole bunch of things some in the classroom some outside some in labs etc so again i think it's more important to focus on the entire curriculum the entire degree program and and design a set of experiences that help people get some kind of technical depth but also agency in in competency in working in groups and communication and you know all those kind of soft skills learn how to be effective in teams working on projects learn how to formulate problems learn how to come up with plans of action and things like that and the specifics of the technical domain don't so much matter okay so so again it's more you know not not focused on developing the best fluid mechanics course for mechanical engineering but to develop the best set of experiences that help students get educated for these this new environment and and just recognize that hey different students are going to learn different things and they're going to be you know they're going to gain depth in different different areas but over the course of a period of time it'll all kind of even out and it'll be okay okay thank you that's my best answer okay do you have any questions other questions from from the online part oh we have our [Music] hi yes i am apart from print option university thailand may ask your opinions about uh what is the challenging things the most challenging things are to develop uh human cyber physical system for now what's the most challenging thing to develop in human cyber physical systems right oh i think i think the most challenging thing um is is what is the humans interface to the cyber physical system how are they supposed to interact with it what kind of experiences should they have um what are they allowed to do uh you know this is this is uh akin to um having the best engineering tools available online you know the best cad system the best finite element analysis system but the designer still sketches on paper with a pen to to get their ideas out there right um same thing with these human cyber physical systems you really need a an outstanding interface that's been designed well uh and is anticipatory for what people are going to want to do with this cyber physical system now and and into the future right so i don't think it's so much on cloud computing it's not so much on sensors and integration uh it's about how the person interacts with all this technology so thank you for that question okay thank you very much maybe uh how about the last questions what do you think if uh we have a degree for students who come to play not to come to learn wow okay put me on the spot uh what do you what do we do with that yeah come to play i'll come to learn to get the well let's go back to the question about gamification of uh you know some of the tools and things like that right again if done well you design the games so that when you play you learn right what do we think about students who go into our invention studio and oh yeah yeah i've got class but what i'm doing here in the invention studio is so much more interesting um well you know as long as they are are fairly confident in their in their coursework we'll still uh educate them and graduate them um so i don't think that's terribly far from what we're doing at least to to some extent they they they have to they have to do well academically they have to pass the courses but we also provide opportunities for them to to play or you know to uh to go in the invention studio uh have these informal education experiences etc so i think there's a role for that you know a lot of programs have uh independent study components to them a lot of them you know have lots of electives so the students can choose what kind of courses they take i don't think we're that far from that i wouldn't necessarily advertise my program is hey come and play and you know if you do okay well you'll get a degree and then everything will be good because i don't think you know i think that's a bit dangerous but again that the curriculum and the whole set of experiences need to be designed well for uh you know with an idea of what we need in the future but also to engage with the current and near near-term set of students that are going to be coming in and recognizing kind of the reality of who these students are and how they're going to learn and how they're going to thrive the best okay so thank you and thank you for that question okay thank you very much and i think we come to the end of these sessions and on behalf of the organizing committees as well as the participants okay we very grateful that you have spent time with us okay and sharing your visions as well as the uh a lot of stuff that open our our mind thank you and we have the click of appreciation that i will mail to you okay i already have your address so it will arrive someday thank you very much um and as soon as i can i will try to visit you guys uh see you in person and uh we'll uh we'll have uh we'll have some good meetings so i wish i was there thank you very much thank you very much