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aloha everyone um welcome we have well uh everyone this is a joint hearing with the committee on labor and culture and the arts and the committee on human services at this time i'd like to introduce the members of the labor cultural arts committee they are senator les cena hara the vice chair who's behind me also online i believe we have senator chang not sure about kyo kalole and senator favela is also a member the human services committee senator hara also serves as vice chair of that committee members of that committee include senator ocasio senator miss lucha and senator favela and chair and the chair oh yeah sorry chair the main person the chair senator san bruno ventura we do have another the labor committee also has a couple of bills at three o'clock but we will be hearing those bills um following this joint hearing this meeting including the audio and video of remote participants is being streamed live on youtube you will find links to viewing options for all senate meetings on the live and on demand video page of the legislature's website in the un unlikely event that we have to abruptly end this hearing due to major technical difficulties the committee the committees will reconvene to discuss any outstanding business is it okay for february friday february 12th at 3 p.m in rome 225 yes okay okay um i don't believe we're going to do a time limit today is that okay that's fine okay also if you would like to submit the late written testimony we will accept it until midnight uh today so midnight this evening so with that um let's proceed to the bills on the for the joint hearing um sorry today is monday february 8th uh it's 305 roughly we are in conference room 225. first up we have senate bill 1270 this is relating to the workforce development council it replaces the director of human services with the administrator of the division of vocal vocational rehabilitation department of human services as an ex-official voting member on the workforce development council so for testifiers who have been approved uh we have um workforce development council allison tasaka executive director allison hi good afternoon tony gucci chair bueno ventura vice chair ihara members of the joint committees allison tasaka executive director of the workforce development council testifying and strong support of this measure this basically is a housekeeping measure to amend our chapter 202 to comply with a federal regulation that we became aware of that makes no disruption to our council membership it will remain comprised of 41 members so just ask that you can help us make this amendment so we could comply with our federal regulations thank you thank you mr saka next testifying for dhs we have kathy betts the director kathy is not in the zoom call okay and we have a additional testifier in support okay do we have questions from members uh let's see okay if not uh we will proceed to the next bill this is uh 7.0793 relating to the minimum wage it increases the minimum wage to 17 the oh no no it's wrong one sorry this is relating to the minimum wage uh it repeals the exemption of persons with disabilities from minimum wage requirements okay first up we have for the state council on developmental disabilities uh daingri bartolis hi i'll be standing up for daintree uh aloha chair taniguchi and chair san bruno ventura and committee members my name is chase over i am the legislative liaison at the hawaii state council on developmental disabilities i'll keep this brief i just wanted to highlight two points in our written testimony which is that we've followed up with the agencies that hold the 14c certificates and we can verify that there is no one really being paid some minimum wage within the state of hawaii um and so that if this measure were to go through you would not be taking away jobs from anybody we knew that that was a concern from last session the second part i'd like to highlight is that this is a civil rights issue this is a practice that was kind of incorporated into the state in the 1930s before the civil rights movement and it's a dated practice and it's about time to get rid of it thank you so much for the opportunity to provide testimony thank you very much next we have the department of labor industrial relations director anne estakio public chairs thank you chair i'm one of the jura and vice chair yohara joanne benitar deputy director for director estacio and we stand in our testimony available for comments thank you chair thank you we also have justifying for the national federation of the blind brandon young hello good afternoon my name is brandon young with the national federation of the blind and i just want to testify in support of this measure our organization is definitely interested in the payment of some minimum wages and we're just grateful that the db council and other organizations has been willing to join us in this effort okay thank you we also have testifying from the national federation of the blind melissa gerber i melissa gerber not on i guess not lisa okay okay um okay those are our testifiers do we have any questions from members okay if not we will recess the joint hearing and i guess we'll go into a meeting room welcome back um this is the joint hearing for the committee on labor culture and the arts and the committee on human services we have just heard testimony on two bills and so we'll be in decision making for both bills senate bill 1270 relating to the workforce development council both chairs recommend that we pass this bill as is is there any discussion if not senator yahara okay we're voting for the labor committee only first on the chair's recommendation to pass senate bill 1270 unamended chair taniguchi aye voice chair voice aye senator chang aye senator kyo kololi aye senator favela reservations reservations the recommendations adopted chair okay so for human services same recommendation vice chair for the vote we're voting on the human services committee uh chair's recommendation to pass senate bill 1270 unamended chair uh chair buenos uh clear vote side adopted okay um thank you members um we'll proceed to senate bill 793 this is relating to the minimum wage it repeals the exemption of persons with disabilities from minimum wage requirements both chairs have discussed this and will recommend that we pass with amendments we'll adopt the ramsay changes recommended by the department and make technical non-substantive amendments any discussion it's not senator hara for the committee on labor culture and the arts okay for the liberty for members of the committee on labor we're voting on the chair's recommendation to pass senate bill 793 with amendments chair tony gucci aye vice chair vote senator chang aye senator keoughly senator favela recommendations adopted so for human services same recommendation vice chair for the vote care votes eye they we're voting on for human services committee to um on the chair's recommendation to pass senate bill 793 with amendments chair buena ventura i um vice chair both sides uh senator ocasio hi senator misa lucha i senator favela recommendations adopted thank you members i we'll recess the joint hearing and we'll proceed in a few minutes with our regular labor committee agenda welcome um this is the committee on labor culture and the arts uh we have a hearing today on uh three bills today is monday february 8th 2021 this is about it's about 3 20. uh this is for a 3 p.m hearing we're in conference room 225. so um i guess again i'll introduce my members for the public um who may be watching uh i'm chair brian taniguchi senator ihara is my vice chair senator chang is on the committee senator keough kaloli is on the committee and senator favela is also on the committee as i mentioned we have three bills today um we'll begin with senate bill 676 this is relating to the minimum wage it increases the minimum wage for certain employees to 12 dollars per hour beginning july 1st 2022 up we have um the department of labor industrial relations director um and estakio oh coming to you vice chair in universal we have our testimony that you stand on available for any questions okay thank you thank you um we have maui chamber of commerce pamela tompap she's not present senator okay um justifying for the hawaii restaurant association we have mr victor lim good afternoon senator gucci and senator hara and members of the committee on labor and culture and art hi my name is victor liam and i'm the legislative lead for the hawaii restaurant association representing about 3 400 restaurants here in the state of hawaii many of our membership is really in dire straits as you can see more than 43 of the membership really don't think that they could survive for another six months unless they have federal assistance and state assistance the we are probably one of the hardest hit economy and we need time to recover from this pandemic all the economic experts point out that the state economy will take at least three to four years to recover we really at this point in time cannot absorb any additional costs uh knowing the fact that we got we're gonna have a lot of other uh bills uh targeting the business small business community and really we really feel that the timing is just not right uh right now for us to be discussing any increase in a minimum wage by when you raise the floor to 12 you really also force everybody above twelve dollars to also go up because we will have to do uh some kind of a compression to make sure that uh job descriptions uh job uh status uh check with what is the starting wage at that particular point in time and really uh the timing is really bad and really uh we really ask you to please do not entertain any additional cost increase that's gonna hit the small businesses thank you very much for allowing us to share our point of view aloha thank you victor chamber of commerce of hawaii sherry menor mcnamara good afternoon chair tony gucci vice chair ihara and members of the committee sherry minor mcnamara here with the chamber of commerce hawaii thank you so much for the opportunity to testify our position today is that we do not support senate bill 676 which increases the minimum wage we are a statewide business organization that represents more than 2 000 businesses statewide and they 80 of our membership is small businesses we believe a proposal to increase the minimum wage during this pandemic sends a wrong message about efforts to support economic recovery during the greatest and most devastating economic recession in history our focus must be the survival of our existing local businesses whose doors are still open simply put if businesses close jobs will be lost families will be impacted the state will lose substantial tax revenue our local quality of life will be diminished and a small business landscape will be forever altered moreover a raising the minimum wage will negatively impact businesses especially industries that have been hardest hit due to shutdowns and restrictions and that includes the restaurant retail and attractions industries and these are not just anecdotal we did a pulsar business survey that was conducted by our hawaii chamber of commerce foundation as well as omnitrac and it showed that revenues fell more than almost an average of 50 percent from 2019 to 2020. and a significant difference between oahu and not a significant difference excuse me between oahu and neighbor islands and almost half reduced their workforce and it would have been higher if they do not receive ppp loans businesses had to cut jobs and more so on the neighbor islands just because of a close connection to the tourism industries even then small businesses have done everything they can to keep employees on payroll and pay health insurance owners removing themselves from payroll and still continue to find ways to support community efforts whether it's food drives or other charitable organizations and efforts furthermore unlike other states hawaii is the only one in the country that requires employers to pay health care coverage for all employees who work 20 hours or more per week this costs an average three thousand six thousand dollars per employee annually adding a minimum of at least three dollars per hour to each employee's hourly's wage additionally an increase in wages is tied to increased costs for other mandates such as workers com temporary disability unemployment insurance payroll taxes and other voluntary benefit programs add this up we are talking more than 12 dollars an hour and as victor said from hawaii russian association we deal with wage compression which will seriously force many businesses to look at job cuts the chamber did support an increase in minimum wage last session and covet hit even if this bill only increases the minimum wage to 12 next year businesses need to forecast and do their budgeting having this on the radar of additional costs would definitely force many of them to rethink and act upon the business model and benefits given the current crisis we cannot support any increase until our economy returns to pre-pandemic levels which according to a hero could take years we respectfully urge committee to defer this bill for the time being and collectively focus on economic recovery thank you and thank you for your time and the opportunity to testify thank you mr menor um highway in russell ryan yeah good afternoon um senators kennedy and hara members of the committee i'm russell ryan with highway inn um been around here since 1947 and i joined the business seven years ago and as i'm married into the business if you're wondering that i don't look like the original family owner restaurants are competitive businesses for both customers and labor the current labor market for full-service restaurants in hawaii is already over 15 an hour remember restaurant wages comprise the base wage which can be a minimum which can be the minimum wage you have to add tips we have service charges with sharing mention we have health care we have pto and we have 401k contributions our internal average is close to 20 already that's because the market is demanding that for the service we provide in 2017 our highest paid worker was a full-time server whose w-2 was over 72 000 and she made a minimum wage around 18 000 and she also made about 55 000 in tips now the key point here is when we're forced to raise the minimum wage for the most part that minimum wage is going to flow to this highly compensated group of employees and it will miss the mark because it's not going to get the lower income people who are currently paying around about 14 to 16 per hour moreover restaurants will simply raise their prices in response to any input costs labor in the restaurant business is a large portion of our costs thus a 10 rise in labor costs is going to force us to increase menu prices by three to five percent we also will get a higher cost from our vendors when many prices rise demand for meals is going to fall because customers have alternative choices total revenues will diminish fewer customers will come in fewer customers equals less people on our payroll we'll also look to pivot even further to put in labor-saving initiatives and and the thing i really want to stress here is we already lose employees to businesses that pay under the table and do not comply with all the rules and regulations that are in place and more and more companies will opt to be non-compliant and run the risk of getting caught in order to pay their bills lower income also means lower gdt income for the state our lower profits will show up in lower taxes for the state customer choices will diminish as restaurants fail the marginal restaurants go out of business and tourists are going to have less places on which to spend their money so recent experience has shown that the government knows exactly how to put money into people's pockets through direct stimulus checks if you use businesses as the arm of government to infect this the amount of you say you put 100 in you're only going to get about three or four that is going to its intended target it is much more efficient and effective to do direct stimulus checked or use the existing tax policies to address this particular form of legislation lastly i just want to talk that talk about he federal government already has the tip wage and it also has flip-flopped recently on tip pooling now tip pooling allows for tips that are given to the server to be shared among all workers as opposed to just the person receiving the tip just the person taking the order um i would call for a very um aggressive tip wage such that we can reinvigorate the restaurant sector now remember just like washington has a congressional budget office which calculated recently that a raise to 15 dollars per hour will reduce jobs by 1.3 million dollars nationwide hawaii needs to do a similar analysis as it because as it contemplates raising the minimum wage because you will likely find raising the minimum wage will have unintended consequences and it will disadvantage exactly the people that you're trying to address with this particular legislation thank you for allowing me to provide this opportunity to talk and i hope you all will be customers highway in the future thank you mr ryan um hawaii food industry association lauren zerval thank you chair tonight vice chair yahara i'm lauren zorbel on behalf of hawaii food industry association which is comprised of 200 member companies representing grocery stores retailers suppliers producers distributors of food and beverage related products in the state of hawaii hfia is an opposition to this measure the fact is that raising minimum wage will force more hawaii businesses to cut staff and or close our state has been the hardest hit by the economic crisis caused by coba 19 and we have already seen dozens of businesses close many local businesses have to have been job providers and staples in our communities for years and they have already closed large chains have weathered the storm because they can take advantage of the economies at scale and rely on profits from the mainland where they have not suffered the economic losses that we have here local businesses do not have this option an increase in the minimum wage now will disproportionately impact these local hawaii businesses and for some this challenge will be too much to overcome raising the minimum wage at a time when it could cause businesses to close and eliminate jobs is self-defeating in order to continue to provide jobs serving their communities paying taxes and driving the local economy our local businesses need time to recover from this pandemic this bill is not the right choice and for that reason we ask that it be helped thank you for the opportunity to testify thank you lauren um we have the kona kohala chamber of commerce wendy larose and the senate committee on labor culture and the arts my name is wendy laros i'm the president and ceo of the conocoholic chamber of commerce our chamber opposes this bill we have nearly 500 members our chamber represents businesses in the kona and kohala districts which is on the west side of the island of hawaii and the tourism industry is what drives our economy our businesses have been especially hard hit in 2020 due to covet impacts and it's resulted in substantial loss of business and although the safe travels hawaii program allows for travelers to bypass the now 10-day quarantine with their negative test in hand the visitor account the customer base continues to be extremely extremely low i think that's one thing that we really need to talk about because we really don't have customers so our businesses don't have customers and it's not just the hotels and the resorts we have 60 of our members with 10 or fewer employees so small businesses those that cater to the visitor experience whether it's retail restaurants activities tours also there's farming and and fishermen too and so we've got a lot of businesses here that just can't take an increase in the cost of doing business and a few things as far as numbers based on a recent university of hawaii economic research organization uh's annual hawaii forecast hawaii island visitor arrivals by air in 2019 were at 1 million 763 000. in 2020 we had 462 000 and there's only going to be another as far as a forecast 766 000 visitors that's a million less than we had in 2019 and again what i'm saying that is a million less customers so for the businesses here there's going to be significant struggle all through the next year and and and in 2020 22 2022 so it's just this is not the time to increase the cost of doing business this is the time to create policies for hawaii's economic recovery so that businesses can survive into the future and provide jobs the conocoholi chamber of commerce exists to provide leadership and advocacy for a successful business environment and we hope that that that this bill will not pass at this time thank you thank you ms laros [Music] living wage hawaii nate hicks thank you for having me and for hearing this bill build working the minimum wage here in hawaii helps our economy uh helps workers and it helps small businesses the minimum wage increased from 725 in 2014 to 10 and 10 cents in 2018. workers at all income levels saw their earnings increase faster than wages nationwide and faster than inflation this was a change from the previous four years when local wages grew slower than wages nationally and also slower than inflation meaning workers were poorer than they were before when the minimum wage was not increased again raising the minimum wage helps workers and it helps small businesses with workers earning more money and spending it here locally from 2014 to 2018 when the minimum wage was increased the number of small businesses in hawaii also increased the number of small businesses increased over that time as did the number of employees that they had the restaurant industry in particular saw an increase of 20 percent in their weight staff over this time again raising the minimum wage helps workers and it helps small businesses unemployment rate here in hawaii was near all-time lows in 2018. hawaii's economy overall grew at a faster rate during this time period as opposed to when the minimum wage was stagnant hawaii's economy grew slower than the nation of the nationwide economy when the minimum wage was increased our economy as a whole grew faster than the national economy raising the minimum wage helps workers and it helps small businesses and our economy overall the eight states that are on their way to a fifteen dollar minimum wage increased their minimum wage this year and are doing so next year as well the time is right to raise the minimum wage as it helps our economy this will be a boost a well needed boost a well-deserved boost to help us call ourselves up democrats across the nation understand this including president biden who are all supportive of trying to raise the minimum wage to at least a 15 minimum wage with the democratic governor and two chambers full of democrats it's absolutely necessary that here in hawaii the most expensive state in the nation we cannot sit at ten dollars and ten cents anymore uh a seventeen dollar you know living 17 is the living wage necessary for a full-time worker to afford their basic maids today i ask that you amend this bill to provide a 17 minimum wage by 2026 a small incremental gradual increase just like states across the nation are doing thank you again for your time raising the minimum wage here in hawaii helps workers and it helps small businesses thank you thank you mr hicks um national federation of independent business ms pavlick aloha my name is melissa pavlicek i'm testifying on behalf of nfib the national federation of independent business we are comprised of nearly 1 000 small businesses here in hawaii they're often the smallest of businesses with fewer than 10 employees no one has a greater incentive responsibility or the ability to lead the economy than hawaii small business owners small businesses play a major role in the economy we respectfully ask you not to advance this bill at this time for the reasons you've heard from many other testifiers thank you thank you um hawaii workers center june shin law chair vice chair committee members jin shin with the hawaii worker center we are in support of senate bill 676 but with amendments the worker center appreciates your willingness to reject austerity by hearing a bill to enact the minimum wage increase but 12 an hour in 2022 is not enough to address economic hardships felt long before the pandemic by working class and low-income families to begin to bring some relief we are asking for a 15 increase by 2022 to make up for the increases that should have been made as cost of living went up until it reaches 17 an hour by 2026. these increases should be gradual rather than enacted at one time so small businesses can manage and if healthcare costs are a concern then we should also consider looking at the feasibility of creating a state universal healthcare system but most importantly um gradually increasing it lets workers start feeling that boost in their wages allowing them to pay the bills and use what's left over to save up or spend on local businesses this is the thank you that essential workers truly deserve and for our brothers and sisters who are currently unemployed for a load or have yet to be recalled please also consider reopening safe direct in-person unemployment services so that they too will get the result relief that they deserve thank you for the opportunity to testify thank you mr shin chair will note for the record that we have received 181 testimonies of written testimonies in support 22 in opposition and 15 providing comments i would also note that we will continue to accept a written testimony on this on these the three bills today actually until midnight tonight with that i'll open up for questions from members questions from members if not we will proceed to senate bill 912 this is relating to the employees retirement system this authorizes a court to order the forfeiture of employees retirement system benefits of an ers member former member or retirement upon conviction of the individual for a felony related to the state or county employment of the individual it also authorizes designated beneficiaries to receive ers benefits upon the death of the ers member former member or retirement convicted of the felony okay um justifiers we have common cause hawaii sandy ma good afternoon chair of vice chair members of the committee kamikaz stands on his written testimony in support of this bill this bill is not about retribution this bill is about restoring ethics and government thank you very much thank you we have testimony from the employees retirement system mr thomas williams chair tanaguchi vice jerry hara i'm tom williams the executive director of employees retirement system and again i appreciate the opportunity to testify in relation to senate bill 912 a large measure to support the intent of the bill and to mention again our primary concern not so much as it relates to the member or retired former member who may be required to forfeit uh benefits that are accrued in the ers as a result of their having been convicted of a felony related to their employee but we're more importantly concerned about the implications for the beneficiaries perhaps if those implications in particular are unintended i believe that your committee when considering a measure somewhat similar to the present one at voices concern about the potential impact of the forfeiture on benefits on behalf of beneficiaries particularly spouses children and the families and we share that particular concern and have offered language in the context of our testimony that would address that particular impact where it deemed to be unintended in some respects so with that i would like to thank you again for the opportunity to testify and be willing to of course answer any questions that may arise thank you thank you mr williams um for the record i'd note that we also had seven people are in support and one person submitting comments with that we'll proceed to questions from members any questions questions okay if not we'll proceed to the next bill senate bill 1275 this is relating to public employees it requires each state government branch to establish a shared leave program for state employees it precludes state government branches and counties that have a shared leave program from prohibiting shared leave sharing between employees of different departments or bargaining units because of administrative inf in physic infeasible allows a public employee to designate beneficiaries through the employees unpaid vacation allowance and wages to a statement that is not verified or written okay um senate bill 1275 we have um from d herd the department of human resource development um director ryker wada uh aloha chair tony gucci hello vice chairman of the committee um again right car water from the department of human resources development we are testifying in opposition to this bill um i should note that uh as stated in the current statute the leave sharing option actually already exists and this is just an extension of that it's a seeking an extension of that i think what the bill currently lacks is a process that would need to be coordinated between all of the executive branch jurisdictions and agreed upon um and this is because different executive branch departments and jurisdictions primarily i believe the department of education and the university of hawaii have different leave banks and different rules associated with those as opposed to the executive branch additionally what is not envisioned in this particular measure is any budget that's tied to the work that would be involved there and so this would primarily be for staffing for i.t necessities as well as security and hosting for any type of system that would be working with a shared leave bank additionally what this doesn't envision is an appeals process which would need to be formalized again across all the executive branch jurisdictions the last thing i'd like to mention and i and this is elaborated a little more on in our written testimony but is that there there's a possibility that there's there will be unintended financial implications um if something like was this was to be implemented as of right now there's no real data um regarding who is accessing the leave and who's donating leave currently in currently existing leave banks and so i think one of the concerns would be depending on who is donating and who's leaving and how that time is calculated it potentially can have larger financial implications for the state in terms of costs and unintended use of costs thank you for the opportunity to testify and i'd be happy to answer any questions thank you i believe we also had three other testimonies in support and what one other testimony in opposition okay with that are there questions from members on this bill i had a question for the ihara d herd director rucker yeah uh could you give a specific example of a financial i guess a negative financial impact or unintended financial impact sure senator so one of the things um that most of the leave banks allow is is pretty much anybody who has over um or who doesn't want to use early they can donate it to these leave banks so for instance if um an office assistant was to donate you know 10 hours of leave to a leave bank um and then the director of d-herd was to access that basically what's happening is is the state is the employee is giving up 10 hours at a smaller rate and the employee is then being paid that same 10 hours at a much higher rate and again so without the information on who is accessing and who is not i think that's the concern is that potentially you could have a much larger cost for the state in terms of leave sharing this is uh so you mean paper cost i mean you're talking about would there be an actual um uh dollar cost um i know the hours to hours and is there like a would there be a p how would it reflect on a on a on paper in terms of a net plus or minus in dollars would it would it get to the dollars part or is it it seems may not be unfair that someone who earns you know twelve dollars an hour you know uh and has five hours leave or you know um and they they donated to someone who owns who makes you know way more than that i'm trying to see how and you know hour to hour does it does it ever is there an example of how you might actua ly have a fiscal impact other than the fairness thing there may be go ahead i'm sorry senator yeah so i think your example is exactly what it would look like right so let's say somebody who's making 15 an hour donates uh 10 hours of leave right so that's a 150 worth of leave if uh someone who's making 30 an hour then then access is that leave then the state is paying that person in that amount right they're paying 300 for that lead and so and that and that's real dollars right because that's something that someone would be accessing if they were short on leave so the person is is for going a smaller amount and the state is paying out a larger amount or at least the state would be losing a larger amount correct because the state doesn't pay out for the state just loses because the other person doesn't come in to work because they're they're using the other person's leave right yeah so technically i'd see i think the state would lose maybe um value financial value okay thank you thanks for example further questions if not i guess chair had some questions um so riker um currently we have i guess leave share in various departments my understanding was that it was more of a kind of a pool type situation monetary pool where like you said if somebody had was getting paid 15 an hour and they had 10 hours of you know leave that they could put into that bank or whatever right and then somebody who had 30 bucks 30 an hour would use some of that but not i mean could use some of that but um would be limited not by equal hours but by how much that thing was worth right that's that's my understanding but i'm not that sure about that you know from our this uh a similar concept came up um to the legislature i wanna say it was two years ago um and we have done more research then uh i i think that's the case with some departments and not all i also am not sure and i think there are different concepts associated with again like i mentioned the doe and the university of hawaii and so i think that's why we're we're really not sure it would require a lot more work than just changing the statute you really don't have to be a large larger coordination between you know the large the executive branch and the deal the university possibly if that's what um the legislature is intending and again if those leave banks are different um then i'm not sure exactly how that would be merged together actually so if you had a employee who moved like we're talking about you know across departments and across the bargaining units and stuff so if the person left their current i guess um department and went to a department that did not have leave sharing then they would lose that or would that they'd be able to withdraw it or probably my understanding is if like if an employee in one jurisdiction they donated leave and then they went to another jurisdiction they wouldn't be able to withdraw it it sits with the the jurisdiction that they've donated to i see i think that's kind of what we're trying to address i guess you know through this bill you know so go ahead concern and again i'm not sure about this year's bill but i think the concern that came up um that spurred the last legislation was just even within the executive branch where one department couldn't you know an employee from one department couldn't only to an employee in another department so let's say dehurt to budget and finance and so that was kind of the concern but again the same hurdles challenges still exist and so like i said i think in concept the concept that we're sharing is fantastic but again just in terms of the structure of this particular measure i think we we would be asking for is if uh the legislature didn't want to do this would be something with for instance a budget that was associated with this or staff that would be able to run this as well as like i mentioned an appeals process that would be envisioned in order to to really flesh this out knowing that you're a very creative person um if we uh if we provided you well we'll if we put in like appropriation amount and we can kind of work on what that estimate might be and maybe we made an effective date uh maybe like say january 2023 would you be able to um develop something by then or would it be just too hard i i think what i mean with that type of time frame i think it's something we definitely could do i would have to talk with for instance ets uh just to figure out what those costs actually might look like but timing wise i think that's a that's probably a doable timeline okay that's kind of what i was kind of thinking based on some of the testimony that you've provided so um cheers okay thank you oh yeah um is it my understanding is that when um like vacation i guess uh you know when when um a legislator or an employee moves from one department to another and they they have they they bring let's see what is it uh i know in in where you have to transfer funds is there a situation we have to actually transfer dollars from one department to another because um the employee moves and takes a vacation from one let's say i think it happened in the senate that goes to another uh department um i think the senate had to to transfer funds to cover the vacation uh at the new the new uh jurisdiction is that is that is that right is it my understanding correct that's my understanding as well so that's when it does you're dealing so in that case then let's say a 15 an hour person wants to give 10 hours of their vacation time 150 uh to another someone in another department then 150 dollars gets transferred i believe and the person who are who makes thirty dollars an hour can only use you know it we will go half as far do i is that my is that is my understanding correct or can you correct it so i think i think that rips off your earlier questions i think depending on the department and the jurisdiction some of them are just based on ours so what i can disclose is i i came from my job prior to me that you heard it was at the department of education and my understanding from when i was there is that it's just hours that are donated it's not a cost associated with the olives um the executive branch spans both so it could be hours or cost associated with those offers so that's that's where i think the difference is and then again some of the challenges excuse me some of the challenges we were talking about earlier thank you okay uh further questions um yeah yeah a young question i guess of conversation um so let's say right now the guy who gives uh thirty dollars an hour right with an hourly uh or vacation whatever hours but the guy who uses them is making fifteen dollars an hour it's almost the same thing what you're saying right now right now what's happening we'll give share at the end of the year or whatever we give uh anonymously we share or donate our our vacation whatever and they're gonna use it people who need help maybe medically or long-term out or whatever um it's not a it's not a dollar amount on it we're just giving our hours but you know you're concerned about i mean i understand you're concerned that person with the lower pain might be using i mean that's only hours i don't understand how is that gonna uh justify uh the big loss that's the point you confuse me right now so you say the person with fifteen dollars who uses the person with thirty dollars on vacation is i i can clear that up with me i don't understand if he's powered so senator you actually bring up a good point so the opposite is also possible as well so for instance if um someone who's making uh 30 an hour donates you know 10 hours a week that's 300 approximately 300 dollars right they're doing it so if someone who is making 15 an hour and uses it they're only using you know 150 dollars so in that particular situation the department or jurisdiction or state they will they will save money as well and and that's that's also entirely a possibility but i think the substance of my testimony is we don't know and so we don't know who's using who's donating and i think that's important to figure out what the actual cost associated with the donations as well as the cost associated with the actual use of usage of lead share yeah yeah i think in discussing this with my staff i think we kind of were saying that yeah it it's more likely that people at a higher rate of pay would um donate hours as opposed to people at a lower rate of pay and so in some ways this does save this if you go by hours it does save the state some money but like you said we don't know that for sure right so um we probably need some time to at least kind of look into it and see how the current programs and different departments are going you know but anyway further further questions from members okay um in that case we'll recess the public hearing uh we'll go into a meeting room uh thank you um this is the committee on labor culture and the arts we had a we just finished a public hearing on three bills and we are now in decision making on those three bills we'll begin with senate bill 676 this is uh relating to the minimum wage just going to reckon we pass uh with amendments uh just making technical non-substantive amendments to the bill any discussion if voting uh labor committee members were voting on the chair's recommendation to pass senate bill 676 with amendments chair taniguchi bye senator harv votes aye senator chang aye senator keoughly aye senator favela reservations reservations recommendations adopted thank you members um senate bill 912 this is relating to the employees retirement system chair recommend we pass with amendments we will clarify that upon the death of the convicted member the designated beneficiary would receive the benefit to which the member former member or retirement would be entitled under this section secondly would amend to provide to provided that a designated beneficiary convicted of a felon of a felony based on the same set of circumstances as the member former member or retirement would receive no benefit under this section that's to include people that the family members that or the beneficiaries that knew about this um act by the member uh will defect the date to july 1st 2050 and make other technical and non-substantive amendments any discussion so there favela no okay if not senator yahara members of the labor committee were voting on the chair's recommendation to pass senate bill 912 with amendments all members of the committee are present so i will ask if there are any objections or reservations for the to the chair's recommendation otherwise i'll cast an i vote for all members present recommendations adopted okay thank you members senate bill 1275 this is relating to public employees this is the leave sharing bill chairs we're going to recommend we pass with amendments um somewhat technical but we'll retain the six-month service requirement for eligibility in hrs78-26b one we'll retain the two-year lack of disciplinary record for sick leave abuse for eligibility in hrs 28 78 26 b4 we'll add a new section to part four for an unspecified appropriation appropriation amount for expenditure by the herd for the purposes of this act we will extend the implement implementation of this section to january 1st 2023 we will also defect the effective date and make technical and non-substantive amendments any discussion if not senator hara we are voting on the chair's recommendation to pass senate bill 1275 with amendments any objections or reservations from any of the members present otherwise i'll cancel i vote for all members president recommendations adopted thank you members um i failed to mention that um we would uh wanted to thank um in our joint hearing we had a asl interpreter who joined us her name was erica peary uh we didn't really get i forgot to thank her for her service um today and uh just wanted to do that before we end it today so without any other discussion if not thank you for recess you