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ladies and gentlemen representatives and chairman Jackson brings us HB 425 dealing with abortion it's a constitutional amendment that stipulates that no provision of the Constitution protects a right to abortion or requests the funding for requires the funding for abortion I should have put my glasses on representative Jackson on your bill Thank You mr. chairman actually it is a conglomerate bill is not representative Jackson's bill I believe it's the people's bill the two people most responsible for this piece of legislation and researching are sitting behind me which is odd because they're usually sitting beside me but we have the governor's office who wants to speak and have some other bills and speaking and then we're going to switch out but this bill I will finally give the people of Louisiana and our opportunity to vote on an issue that we voted on numerous times and that's to say that we are against the shedding of innocent blood in Louisiana that we believe in life and that we support life I am a pro-life advocate who supports life I like to tell people from the womb to the tomb right not only to give opportunities for mothers to choose life from the date of conception but to also provide much-needed resources to the mother and the child after they choose life so it brings me great pleasure to present this to the Civil Law Committee I think I'll be it before another committee and then before the house and we're looking for co-authors so that the people of Louisiana can prove what everyone else has said about our status that we're the number one pro-life state in the nation and that we care for life at every stage of life and that's basically what myself right to life who's going to come up and speak during the Borle has been talking about and governor Edwards and his staff and this young lady who's helped as well it is very important that at some point we put this in place and that time is now there was another state which they're going to talk about because they do more research than me where their Supreme Court just recognized a right to abortion in their constitution and it seems to be the new movement to go state-by-state and determine whether or not each state Constitution recognizes a right to abortion this would put us at the forefront before as soon as that were filed the we would be clear our people would have an opportunity to vote on it all of your constituency that we do not recognize a right to abortion in the state of Louisiana in our Constitution and I'm gonna turn it over the math through bloc who probably has a number of a committee to be to go to besides this one and welcome to the committee on civil law and procedure mr. block we appreciate you coming to testify today did you fill out a card I sure did okay we're getting sergeant-at-arms to pick that up for us yes thank you you're gonna please proceed thank you for having me I appreciate being here Matthew block for the governor's office and I'm happy to be here on behalf the governor too to support this bill this is this is a a bill that we have we have worked with representative Jackson with Louisiana right-to-life to to support this bill I in and I think what representative Jackson said clearly about what this bill does is exactly the reason we supported in that we want to make it clear that the Louisiana Constitution does not provide for a right to abortion that's what this bill does and that's what it does clearly and we think that is is something that is representative Jackson said that the Louisiana voters should have a right to to have their their voices heard on this we obviously the governor's is strongly pro-life and has made that clear from in his entire public life he supports this legislation and we ask you to do so as well and I'm mapping answer any questions that you have and I think you stated it but as I read the bill it doesn't require anyone to do anything it does not it's just merely stating that if you challenge the Constitution for whatever reason that we're not going to interpret it as supporting abortion that that's it it's just limited to to interpret interpretation Louisiana Constitution excellent okay and who else is at the table with you good morning mr. chair mr. vice chair members of the committee my name is dr. Kathy Allen I'm state director of black advocates for life I'm also the proud mother of a 12 year old son who has Down syndrome what pardon me dr. Ellen you talk a lot of card form yes sir okay I'll look through please proceed I apologize I'm the proud mother of a 12 year old son who has Down syndrome and I'm one of thousands of women around our state who unfortunately have personal experience with abortion my support for this proposed addition to our state constitution is based on two factors first the love-life amendment provides critical protection for current pro-life legislation and second the proposed amendment potentially has the effect of changing abortion discourse from a discussion of civil rights to a discussion about community-based resource and support systems the love-life amendment provides a significant layer of protection for current pro-life laws and regulations which protect mothers and save babies I know from personal experience and from conversations with women and men around the state that the decision to have an abortion is usually made in haste and in fear there are many scenarios that lead to abortion but one unavoidable commonly occurring outcome is regret it may be immediate or for some of us it may take many years but at some point every person who has been involved with abortion in any way having an abortion or paying for one encouraging one or performing one realizes that abortion ends the life of a human person the shame and guilt that results from regret often produces a posture of silence that prevents reaching out to others and saving lives in addition to this I have the privilege of being the mother - Joshua Lewis Allen my gifted insightful and joy-filled son Joshua is 12 years old and happens to have Down syndrome which is the best syndrome by the way over 70% of mothers who have a prenatal diagnosis of Down syndrome choose to abort these wonderful children boys and girls who have talents intelligence and something to contribute to their communities our current laws that require ultrasounds waiting periods before obtaining an abortion and parental consent for underage young women or frontline offensive weapons that save the lives of unborn babies like Joshua and other babies who will be future classmates friends colleagues and community leaders these laws give desperate women the opportunity to think and to consider whether there are better options than abortion countless women have stated that the opportunity to see an ultrasound image of their womb helped them to realize that they were carrying a life and that the life within them deserve to have life outside of the womb the love life amendment ensures that the pro-life laws that protect mothers and unborn babies the laws that protect the future of our communities remain intact and available as measures to reduce fear promote thoughtful evaluation of options and ultimately save lives further the love life amendment places the discussion about choice in the communities that hold the solutions to the problem of abortion many abortion defenders talk about a woman's right to choose we certainly all have a right to choose to do with what we wish with our bodies but all rights must have parameters they must have boundaries many of us who have experience with abortion felt at one time that we had the right to determine whether we wanted to be a parent whether we wanted to interrupt school or work or whether we wanted to injure our reputations we realized the hard way that wanting to do something on our own timetable does not eliminate the responsibility to protect the lives that are connected to ours I do not have a right to do something with my body that will bring harm or death to another human being the love-life amendment rather than suggesting that abortion is a civil right would promote a more robust discussion about choice in individual communities ideally we want to talk about the right to choose in the context of socially just policies that promote life-affirming choices a community that is focused on creating support networks and identifying sustainable resources for mothers babies and families can more effectively promote life-affirming choices that improve the well-being of the community rather than the choices that destroy the future the love-life amendment is a critical piece of our future that supports all life in every stage and in every condition I ask you as a woman who knows the pain of abortion as a mom who sees the value in a child who many when might have aborted and as a member of a community that I want to see choose life in every way to please support HB 425 the love life amendment to the Constitution of the state of Louisiana thank you so much thank you dr. Allen we appreciate you coming to testify today anything else dad while you're still a table before I bring some other people sure I have I'm not sure who's authoring that amendment an amendment to change the date of the election that this amendment would have put on a ballot I think that's representative C ball I'm sorry on that first amendment I believe it is as well you ready to offer that amendment represents a ball I haven't actually seen it drafted yet but I requested it apparently don't we change it from the November runoff date to the October primary date I believe it's coming out now okay members you're being you will receive amendments at 11:25 offered by representative Seba to representative Jackson's bill which essentially if I understand it correctly just moves it up to the primary date as opposed to the general election date correct and the reason for that was felt it's going to be a larger turnout the primary is always a larger turnout then that then then the runoff and it's broader appeal across the state some areas there might not be runoff so I thought we'd get a better a better shot at it in October and I visited with Katrina about it yesterday I just give me representative Jackson about it yesterday and she agreed it remembers any objections to the adoption of the amendment seeing on the amendment will be adopted back on the bill revenue to Jackson and members I was accepting of this amendment I talked to Ben and Orenda who really really have helped and shape this bill and I believe that I'm gonna be calling on all of you at some point to help promote it because that gives them you know that cuts off of month of advertising and making sure that our constituency know that it's on the ballot it will then be on the ballot with a number of other amendments so you'll receive an email from me at some point asking for your help and communicating this early on why you're here to your constituency to make sure that it's not in five or ten other amendments that may be on a ballot because the importance of this one so I'm gonna be looking for you guys to co-author and help us as well will annoy very good would be ready to go up mr. clapper sure chairman members thank you vent clapper director of Louisiana right-to-life States pro-life organization been in existence since 1970 certainly as you can imagine before I was there so thank you for your time today we're supportive of this a bill this constitutional amendment HB 425 to love-life amendment we recently did a poll of the state and found that 70 percent of Louisiana and self-identify as pro-life so this is a good starting place for this amendment to put before the people to support this pro-life principle that the right to abortion should not be found in our state's Constitution my colleague during the board Lee is going to talk a little bit more about the details but members I've distributed or the sergeant arms to distributed some of our petitions that you've received we've collected and put in two weeks time since Reverend Jackson filed this bill currently 5438 petition signatures supporting this constitutional amendment across the state this holes this stack and this box are actually petitions that have been unup ended with Senate and House districts so many of these could be your constituents but we just they just come in the past few days so we haven't had a chance to put the House and Senate districts on it and then the boxes down to my right are the other petitions for other members that will be distributing this week and then next week week when the bill is considered so the state's supportive of this we believe this is a pretty modest measure and just to ensure that the decision on this issue remains with the people and their elected legislators not with judges in our state courts we thank you so much for your support and we look forward to passage of this amendment thank you and just for clarification the petitions are read because it's the yeah so this amendment isn't thank you represent garl falling your wisdom told me that this should be a green set printed amendments petitions so they don't look like they came and come in opposition but the theme of this amendment is the love-life amendment red hearts all that good stuff so but we'll have to think about green next time you from now on you'll be my color well advice I'd be very good at that at least according to my wife I wouldn't be mr. bored Li would you like to say a few things we have another amendment as well oh dude offer that yes it is to add language to the bill that says to protect human life nothing that's literally the language yes they have it they're gonna pass it out okay members you're being passed out amendment set 11:23 and can we get staff to describe this to us members this is amendment set 11:23 that's being handed out right now it is changing the language on page one at the beginning of line eleven so that it will read to protect human life nothing in this constitution shall be construed to secure protect the right to abortion or carve the funding of abortion and then amendment number two is deleting the current ballot language found on page two lines one through four and replacing it with the language that is on the amendment that she just sent it out which raised e support an amendment declaring that to protect human life a right to abortion and the funding of abortion shall not be found in the Louisiana Constitution Thank You mr. Singletary I represented Jennifer Jenkins you have a question on the amendment thank you you know one of the concerns I had about the amendment first of all let me say I understand and don't have any problem with the people voting on the issue okay but one of the concerns I had was that I didn't see anything that dealt with the commonly accepted exceptions rape incest life of the month does this does this cover that that's just well this isn't amendment in Kapil stalls exception that was one of the things that some concern about could I answer that question represents hi my name is Durand aboard Lee mr. chairman thank you for allowing me to be here I'm here for information purposes only as an attorney to explain the bill what it accomplishes in these kinds of questions I'm with bioethics defense fund based in the New Orleans area but we work on a national level the quick answer to your question is that this this amendment would the whole effect of it is to leave the abortion issue entirely in the hands of the people through their elected officials that's you rather than in the hands of state court judges because in 12 other states 12 states the support the state supreme courts have interpreted their state constitutions to discover a right to abortion where there is no text to that effect they take the privacy Clause of the due process amendment and they interpret it to say there's a state right to abortion and they use that to strike down common-sense laws like ultrasound laws and woman's right to know laws and if ro is ever reversed and sent back to the states instead of the people deciding in the legislative process or the democratic process the state court has already decided for them and that of course is a usurpation of the legislative process so to answer your question in 2006 this body passed a aw that says if roe versus wade is reversed and the abortion issue is sent back to the States then abortion shall be prohibited in Louisiana it addresses issues of rape and incest under the rape issue it says that it will follow whatever the Medicaid requirements are so for example the federal medicaid requirements are that rape and incest must be allowed for us to receive Medicaid funding so it will track that but all of those details will be decided by you as the elected officials representing the people this legislation here says nothing about rape incest ultrasounds anything like that because it's simply saying this issue of abortion in all of its measures shall stay in the hands of the people through you guys as the elected officials so if there's something you wanted to change in the future you could introduce a bill and run that through the legislative process instead of having state court judges usurp the legislative process like the US Supreme Court has done in the Roe versus Wade decision and that's why if the Roe versus Wade decision is reversed a lot of people don't realize even us as lawyers were so entrenched in an atmosphere of judicial activism where the US Supreme Court you know nine individuals unelected have taken over the most important social issues of our day out of the hands of the people in the states when Roe vs. Wade was passed the laws of 48 states banning abortion were struck down and so when roe is reversed that won't mean that abortion is illegal it means that it will go back into the constitutional structure where the people set the law through their legislative representatives the executive execute the law and judiciary interprets the law so this gives the judiciary something to interpret very clearly where they can't find you know through some provision or another a right to abortion that's a long answer to your question if it's confusing I'm glad to clarify I didn't want to be confusing with it I was talking about this particular amendment not the constitutional amendment that ultimately what goes is it okay I understand I was trying to determine rather not and I guess one of the concerns I had about the bill was rather not it recognizes the commonly accepted exceptions we're gonna make someone go through with a pregnancy if they've been raped or victim of incest or the health other or the mothers that is at risk yes so things do to protect human life is what you're asking about by adding these forwards to protect human life does that have any legal effect is is what you're saying and and the answer is no it's simply a principle that said that indicates that the principle that Louisiana respects human life but you of course as the legislature can determine just like you do with murder laws and rape laws and you know what are the exceptions what are the defenses all of that stays so this took this edition of adding to protect human life is simply to indicate in the plain language to the voters that this is a pro-life amendment aimed at saying we're not going to have abortion we found that when we asked you know regular people on the street when you read this legalese nothing in this constitution shall be construed to secure a protect a right to abortion okay well you see the word nothing and you see the word abortion and it's not clear is this a pro-life amendment or is this a pro-abortion amendment so we wanted to engage that principle to protect human life you're not going to find abortion in this constitution but it leaves it all those issues in your hands the answer is no it is no it doesn't it doesn't bring in those commonly accepted correct exceptions okay now thank you final thank you thank you mr. Joe we're up the new sea ball for a question thank you I want to thank you all for bringing the bill and I like the amendment to the constitutional language adding that to protect human life the issue I have is with the ballot language change the original ballot language I mean to the to the constitutional amendment itself you added that to protect human life but you completely rewrote the ballot language the original one actually literally verbatim tracks the amendment to the Constitution the new one that's in the amendment does not now it kind of says the same thing but I guess I'm asking why the change and in light especially in light of the fact that within the last few years we've had a duly passed constitutional amendment invalidated by the court because the ballot language did not in their opinion fairly and accurately reflect the change to the Constitution itself so the first one or closely tracks the actual language being added to the Constitution then the but new ballot language in the amendment and and I want to - two questions one is why and secondly why play with fire okay may I okay so to your first question the answer is we wanted to use plain language and we studied the the constitutional amendments that were on the ballot last election cycle like the the jury trial and so forth and the jury trial language in the amendment looked nothing like the plain language question on the ballot but that's the point is that the plane left the plain language question on the ballot needs to be plain language and so if we get if we put too much of the legalese in there we found in talking to people that it got confusing so now I do take your point that we want to make sure that there's no court challenged and that it's consistent so if you wouldn't mind perhaps we could follow up if we could put this on now we could follow up and and I can talk with someone more of my colleagues and with you and if we need to tweak that we could do so on the House floor okay and that's fine one of the jobs this committee has constitutional amendments that come out of other committees come here for us to approve the ballot language right in this particular situation we're doing both at the same time it's just again I can read it I know what it says I actually like the original one better but that's cuz you're a lawyer actually you know maybe it makes more sense to me I like the first one better also but but when Ben and his team vetted it it you know people don't don't get double negatives in the real world only as lawyers do so I think that this language accurately reflects what it is it's neutral enough to where you're not influencing somebody one more the other and it indicates right up front this is to protect human life and it's not about finding abortion in the in the state constitution so okay again from a purely technical standpoint the original language had do you support an amendment to add a provision to the Louisiana Constitution in the new ballot language you're not it doesn't say you're adding a provision it says you are declaring that it's not their representative see Bob we could I think some other a couple other members have expressed his concern can we not offer this amendment and work on it that the ballot language from down to the floor that's fine well our from help the welfare our from down to the floor I'll work with you on it yeah if y'all want to put them in on that's fine as long as we're gonna I don't care we can go either way I just I would like to continue having the conversation I'll do it today however y'all want that's fine I just can't I do want to continue the conversation because we don't want to mess it up okay we can put it on and then I'll work with you from now on to health and welfare an out to the floor as well that's fine if the amendment hadn't already been offered I'll offer it even though I got an issue with it but I do only appreciate your feedback that's important pardon me okay we're just discussing whether or not would have to come back to us if we don't decide our in ballot language today if you change the ballot language I think it would have to come well according to staff is not correct because we've already heard the bill it was originally referred to us it only had to come back to us if it's not originally referred to we can work it we could always amend it on the floor if we have to sir and you want to change the word declaring to stating was that yeah I'm just thinking on the fly I didn't know that I'm just looking at what is the difference we are in fact adding a provision so the original ballot language says do you support an amendment to add a provision the new one says do you support amendment declaring that so the question is are we adding a provision are we declaring something that was already there you could argue that either is correct I just want to make sure that that if there is a future court challenge that we do it right so that we don't go through all this passage and then have it invalidated all right and so if you want to offer the amendment and then we'll work on it with you throughout the process that's fine and you know I keep my commitments so we'll just work on it from here throughout the process okay you're gonna great no for that okay I will offer the amendment okay members well we have another question represented ooh busan Thank You chairman I am pro-life and but to representative Jenkins question I'm still not comfortable with that either I believe that there should be exceptions so with what I heard you say is that we would then as lawmakers have to come back and do another law I mean why so in Louisiana in the Constitution the Constitution sets forth principles and the the laws that you pass in the Revised Statutes set forth all of the parameters and so we don't want to be legislating all of the exceptions in the Constitution so this simply says however y'all handle abortion you're not going to find a right to abortion in the Louisiana Constitution that means it stays with you yeah let me let me say this to answer everyone question on the exceptions Roe versus Wade unfortunately for us is still the law so that this change any issue with right now on a national level or even in a state regarding abortion know what it basically says is you will not find ever in our Louisiana constitutional right to abortion so when you're talking about the exceptions the exceptions are still in place because we cannot prime federal law can't you sir Pitt and right now the Supreme Court decision is still stands so you can't overturn that nor can you overturn the exceptions and that's a very good point I'm going to just maybe close with this this does not this legislation this proposed constitutional amendment does not at all change one thing about how abortion is practiced in the state even after it passes it would not change anything it would apply in two different cases number one if and when Roe versus Wade is reversed and it comes back to the state then it'll stay with the people not the courts number two though we see that the abortion industry's increasingly challenging common-sense laws in state court rather than in federal court and that's how they got the twelve state Supreme Court's to strike down informed consent for abortion laws and ultrasound laws and 72 hour waiting period laws and so this will serve to protect Louisiana's pro-life laws that are on the books now from a state court challenge and then if Roe vs. Wade is reversed but this does not directly challenge roe it doesn't change one thing about abortion law now we're in the future again it keeps it in your hands thank you okay representatives on thank you so just to get back to my original question we're still not requiring anyone to do anything even with the amendment to the constitutional amendment we're still just saying that we're not going to interpret anything we're just adding the words to protect life that's right it's just a principle okay and I've always been very forthcoming to the committees every committee I said before and I'm going to be for coming today because I want to answer representative de vos and a question do police on accurately now if this is overturn Louisiana will not recognize anything I've never said before committee in light I've been misleading if Roe vs. Wade is overturned our Louisiana Constitution would not allow for any laws to be implemented regarding abortion okay and I've always been up front and I thought about the statement I made but I know there's a time that I'm advocating all over the nation for war versus waiting to be overturned so with that if it is this provision would not allow for any laws to be passed in Louisiana regarding abortion but the federal laws would have to be changed and not recognize any rights or exceptions as long as the federal law recognizes exceptions to the abortion laws then they will still be recognized in Louisiana if it ever came to a point whether federal law is no longer recognized exceptions then our state would not recognize them but I didn't want to be disingenuous with my answer I'm always trying to make sure I'm covering every basis so I remember won't say later you told me this because four years down the line we may be still serving together and the federal government may not recognize exceptions so if the federal government doesn't recognize exceptions well the federal laws then we wouldn't nice exceptions but I can tell you this I don't think it'll ever be in time in Louisiana because our legislators overwhelmingly pro-life that we would recognize anything or any right to abortion that to the federal laws did not recognize we never have at that point though it would be up to us as a body to come back and and add the exceptions if it were overturned and it would be then in are you saying it look if it's ever overturn it's going to be up to us as a body to determine whether or not we allow abortions in this state I would venture to say unless there's a major shift in Louisiana politics and and what we've seen over the course of time I would venture to say that I will never happen in the state of Louisiana we've been running pro-life legislation since I've been here for the last seven eight years and I staff before that eight or nine years and I've never seen a prohibition Pro abortion even when this house was majority Democrat passed this body for abortion bill and so we've been conceived you I'm just saying the exceptions are important to me because I think and their federal exceptions that I can write and I understand but their federal exceptions and but I want not to be disingenuous with my answer if it ever comes to a point where the federal government no longer federal laws no longer recognize exceptions in Louisiana wouldn't either at this point we don't recognize them there's nothing in our law that recognizes them and that's why it's very important that I state that there's never been anything in Louisiana law that recognizes exceptions and our venture to say unless there's a major shift in the legislature you're not going to find a majority of legislators that will pass anything that recognizes them but it's the future legislators rights if they so choose so I want to be real clear because I don't want you to come back four years from there and say you representative Jackson with disingenuous with an answer Tanner knows he sits on a committee with me that we are always very clear on what we're doing and what you do being you know a new member with a lot of wealth and knowledge seems like in this area then yes it would be up to Louisiana I believe at this point this constitutional amendment will you know will stand on its face if passed by the constituency thank you and just to be crystal clear the constitutional amendment that we have in front of us and the amendment to the con Sushil amendment will not change any of that so if we want to recognize exceptions in Louisiana we'll have to do that through a separate piece of legislation right that's correct okay represented Jenkins another another question on the amendment to the amendment it's relevant what is the status of Roe vs. Wade now is the court looking at Roe vs. Wade every decision that comes before the Supreme Court on abortion is an opportunity for them to review world versus wade Roe versus Wade itself is not up for the Supreme Court that's not a case that's challenging it but there are a number of cases even the bill we passed in 2014 which was my piece of legislation on admitting-privileges I mean every time you see a bill go up before the Supreme ourt dealing with abortion it gives the Supreme Court the opportunity if they so choose to make a decision on world versus weight what we've seen in the past and I'm thinking miss boiler will speak more directly to it is that the Supreme Court has been ruling on issues and the parameters of the Roe versus Wade decision but the Supreme Court at any time when they build recording abortions before them could rule on it but right now the status of Roe versus Wade is unfortunately it still remains the law of the land well I just put this and I think the lady's butt beside me but like a crack at that as well representative Jenkins I just I can address your question I'm Liz Merle from the attorney general's office and I'm the lead counsel in all of the federal litigation right now over state laws protecting women's health and protecting life the status right now at the Supreme Court is that there are two cases from Indiana that the Supreme Court is considering granting certiorari on to evaluate three separate restrictions one is an 18 hour ultrasound law which many many states have and it's very concerning that the discs the federal courts under current Supreme Court jurisprudence have struck ultrasound laws which we have here as well on a 24-hour waiting period our 72 hour waiting period which is which was extended in 2016 legislation by the legislature is currently under attack and I'm defending that law there's a there is an Indiana law that prevents selective abortions for people who have disabilities and Down syndrome and things like that conditions that are genetic abnormalities that prevents elective abortions on that basis which we also passed in 2016 I'm also defending that law here in the federal courts that is currently in a petition pending out the United States Supreme Court in Indiana there is another law that is similar to a law we have on the burial and cremation of human remains that is being defended right now by Indiana and that's another that's one of the challenges that they have our case representative Jackson's law from I think it was in 2014 which required admitting privileges is is we are expecting a cert petition we actually had the federal district court decision reversed at the Fifth Circuit and now of June medical the clinic who operates in Shreveport is challenging that at the United States Supreme Court and their brief is due Thursday so I think that you will also hear representative Cruz has a bill that's coming before this committee on Thursday that is a very good bill which I think will give you some concerns about how [Music] these clinics operate and so I think that you will this is a good amendment it preserves the right of the legislature the state legislature to determine what laws will apply to abortion it I think you will see some movement at the Supreme Court there are there are a lot of states that are passing laws they are passing fetal heartbeat laws they're passing a number of different types of laws there's a lot of push on both sides of this debate to push cases up to the Supreme Court so we don't really know what will happen we know that we can protect and we can explain what we think our state constitution says and that it preserves the right for the legislature to legislate on this topic and that our state constitution won't be misconstrued so that's what this amendment does it still preserves the right of the legislature to legislate if the Supreme Court actually gives you back that right under federal law which is what we you know we may or may not see happen in the next few years and besides representative Cruz Building I'm glad you brought up the legislation to let you know how important it is is that right now representing the Cruz has legislation represented term Iselle has legislation for example in Boulder City and abortion clinic closed because we weren't so keen on the legislation we know when they close I think was last year this year there was a question of whether or not they were providing abortions to young girls who were being trafficking trafficked from Fort Worth Texas they burned all of their records so now no one can pursue that investigation although there was kind of wait the information given to us that they may have been providing abortions for young girls who were being trafficked across state lines and so at some point we need to put some teeth in our Constitution so that when laws passed like representing Ezell's and represented Cruz and others who are bringing bills this session they can't attack those laws because there's there's a lot of important stuff going on that are surrounding abortion clinics that we do not have access to especially when you hear something that egregious and by the time it's not you have an opportunity to investigate it every record has been destroyed and so as these bills come forward to correct those issues we want to make sure that our Louisiana Constitution oppose those bills so that when they're attacked in court those those pieces of legislation that I think are all you know whether you're pro-life or pro-choice at that point if we've been providing if a clinic has been providing abortions to someone who's some young girl who's being trafficked across our state lines we want to know that the highest respect for you you know that yes I hear what you're saying and I think anybody out there doing something they shouldn't be doing they shouldn't be doing it that's really not right the issue today the the point that I'm making is what and I know everybody has got a strong feelings about this whatever you got strong the point I'm making is I'm very concerned when we say someone has to go far with a pregnancy when they've been raped or they've been the victim of incest or if a doctor is sitting there saying you go through a dis birth this mother's go down let me finish let me finish I let you let just see what you got a sick us I'm not trying to stop anything for moving forward right I know how to count okay my the point I'm simply making is I hope you all will give some thought to the exceptions I think that's pretty important stuff that needs to be a part of this discussion that's why I bring it up don't offend it jump out of the bill to me was the fact that there was nothing there that provided for that you talk about interpretations that's not for the legislature to do that is for the courts to do we don't interpret constitutions the the courts that's their duty they interpret constitutions and what they stand for if this bill is sitting here now saying you know that's nothing our Constitution has a right for you to get treatment for cancer or for sickle cell anemia or whatever the case may be you understand what I'm trying to say those interpretation is ought to be left to the courts and they say that now the only thing that I'm sitting on this committee as a member this committee today is I hope you all will get some thoughts to the impact of the exceptions and I just have a blanket you know a lot there with no exception to it at all so and I understand your concerns I think what well I know what representative what our lead counsel has said is this right now Louisiana law does not recognize exceptions to federal law does but at any point that Roe versus Wade is overturned or any of the federal law regarding is overturned in the Louisiana Legislature will have an opportunity or anyone in legislature to bring a bill even if this pass is to determine whether or not there are exceptions but right now I know we're in Louisiana law is there exceptions because it's recognized in federal law and the right to abortion is recognized in federal law and so if Roe vs. Wade as I will return what lead counsel has said is that this legislature will then determine whether or not to pass statues or anything that would wreck it exceptions which we never have before because it's always been a part of federal law but the legislators still would have an opportunities is the way I'm understanding what you would still have an opportunity of this passes as a member of the legislature any member of the legislature to pass statutes regarding exceptions if the federal law is ever overturned and that's a civil law state right legislative law you know is primary law this is where these issues should be decided does that make it easy for you guys no would it be easier for courts to act like legislators like Roe versus Wade has done sure but that's not what our federalist structure government is set up to do so this just puts the issue back into the people's hands you all represent the people you know what your constituents want and and will be able to handle that you know with with people that come to the table who are perhaps conceived in rape or women who were traumatized by the abortion just as much they were traumatized by the rape and so those type of things deserve a hearing in the legislative committee and you'll be able to decide those questions you finished representative Jenkins Thank You mr. chair sure and and to be clear try to always try to clarify when I can someone could bring that bill now the exceptions bill now yes nothing restricting anyone from bringing the exceptions bill now okay very good and miss Morelle thank you for coming today to clarify some of the issues I don't have a card for you did you feel one it okay very good and I know she's running to the Senate that the Attorney General has legislation in the Senate today we always appreciate it when you grace us with your presence and your knowledge excellent thank you all right next up we have president would like to speak Christie cross from Family Forum mr. cross would come to the table did they vote oh we're stolen the amendment aren't we Oh apologize for that so we have amendment set in front of us 11:23 which representative Seba has offered up on behalf of representative Jackson we've had a lot of questions that we have any objections to the adoption of that amendment seeing no objections that a memo did you have a question another question on the amendment its amendments at 11:23 the top right corner I had a question with them we were going to fix he he had a question but he offered it as it's written with the assurance from representative Jackson that if any members of this committee had a problem with it between here and the floor she will definitely work with you to vote on it today as it stands so what robert mckee because robert MC bo offered the amendment we're going to go ahead and vote on the and whether we adopt the amendment on to the bill and I know this is an issue so if we want to any member that wants to talk to me about this amendment if it gets on then please come see me I don't care what your position is on the bill I know part of the issue represent a Seabee I had was a substantive issue not his agreement with the bill I've discussed this issue we don't want to struck down and so we'll be working with the staff because the staff did have an issue on some of the language as well okay we're up to the dubas on I know it's in good hands I'm sorry I just wanted a clarification excellent always best to be clear all right members any objection to the adoption of amendments at 11:23 seeing none amendments at 11:23 is adopted we're back on the bill now and we've called up miss Kraus from Louisiana family forum and welcome to the Committee on civil lawn procedure Thank You chairman members our Louisiana Family Forum president Jean Mills regrets that he was not able to be here with you today but his schedule has some out of the country so he's on an airplane as we speak in 1973 when the Supreme Court created a right to abortion they took on the role of the legislature and what this will do and of course that was in the federal system but what this will do in Louisiana is have a clear expression of the legislative will and of the will of the voters and the people of the principle in our Constitution and it will prevent a court from creating such a right in the future should Roe versus Wade be returned to the states as an LSU graduate genes pro-life ethic led him to direct a crisis women's pregnancy center and then eventually come to work at lff he grieved that despite the understanding that about when life begins abortion remains legal and women are sold on the idea that abortion solves a problem when nothing could be further than the truth too many women bear the scars of past abortions not to mention the many thousands of unborn children who have lost their lives in our state we look forward to the day when abortion is not only unthinkable but unnecessary when women in crisis know that there are real alternatives to cutting a life short that's why I'm here testifying on Jeanne's behalf for House bill 425 it's a simple affirmation of the Louisiana pro-life ethic stating that nothing in the Louisiana Constitution will be construed to secure protect a right to abortion or to require the funding of abortion the policy in Louisiana is and has always been to protect human life and on a personal note I would like to say that my husband was the late Senator Mike Kraus who passed away back in 2013 and he was the author of one of the strictest anti-abortion bills in the country that was passed and unfortunately vetoed by then governor Romer back in 1990 and this is a debate that we've been having here in Louisiana for 30 years and we have always come down on the side of protecting the unborn and it's interesting to note that at the very end of his life in the in the final weeks he he comin in many times that during his long time in public service his work in this area on this issue meant more gave his life more meaning than anything that he ever did while he was in public service other than just the things he was able to do to help people on a tangible level and so I think that that that really encapsulates the importance and the weight and the gravity of this issue we don't want a state court to be able to override the will of the legislature and we want the principle to be in our Constitution that way the policy is clear the intent is clear and if roe versus wade ever gets returned to the states are overturned in the decision returned to the states then this will be in effect and the legislature will be able to do its job not the courts thank you thank you for coming to testify and representing mr. Mill's so well today miss Kraus we really appreciate it I have several cards in favor read and read those into the record read mrs. Kraus present will provide information if requested charles carpenter from Baton Rouge right-to-life brian gunther from louisiana writes alive not wishing to speak in support charles Rossman representing himself gideon Rossman representing himself rob tasman Louisiana Conference of Catholic Bishops dr. will halt Louisiana Baptist Office of Public Policy Helen Carver Louisiana Family Forum Diane Stevens no affiliation Dale huff power Louisiana Family Forum me aboard Lee Louisiana right to life we appreciate all the testimony in favor today and we have a few people opposed follow my own into the record this is just the list of the 12 states that have discovered the right to abortion and then the five states who have passed similar amendment saying that there's no right to abortion so Louisiana would be number six on that list I think the members would like to see that okay if we can get a copy we could get some copies made for the record and for the members okay if you guys can make way for us we'd appreciate it first up Stephanie bangle from New Orleans abortion fund wishing to speak and looks like Laura fine from life Louisiana a lift Louisiana if you can correct me on that if I'm wrong also in opposition I'll read the cards now Julie Schwalm Harris no affiliation and Angela Atkins from Louisiana now good morning thank you welcome to the Louisiana House of Representatives and the house of the House Committee on civil law procedure are you miss bangle I am and thank you for pronouncing my name correctly I believe me it wasn't by choice I'm just really trying to read it off the card police proceed excuse me thank you so my name is Stephanie Bengal I am the volunteer and outreach manager with the New Orleans abortion fund a nonprofit organization serving women across Louisiana t e New Orleans abortion fund provides financial assistance to clients who cannot afford the full cost of abortion care in our state we work statewide in partnership with local medical providers to offer compassionate and empowering assistance to women seeking abortions and distribute financial pledges as available to offset the cost of this medical care we affirm people's rights to control their bodies and their destinies and we work to ensure that all people have access to quality medical care and regardless of their economic situation I'm here today to testify against HB 4 to 5 this bill is unnecessary harmful and insulting to the women that it purports to protect on the human level bills like HB 425 insult the intelligence and autonomy of Louisianians who seek to terminate their pregnancy our clients at the New Orleans abortion fund are strong thoughtful people who have made an informed choice to end their pregnancy 70% of our clients already have children they understand what it means to raise a child and to choose to grow their family in a manner that reflects their visions and their aspirations a person's right to determine her own future and her bodily autonomy are inextricably linked when a woman lacks the right or the ability to control her reproductive health her future is at stake laws that restrict access to comprehensive health care which includes abortion are most damaging among our most marginalized communities including low women low-income women women of color rural women and women who have been abused or assaulted H be four to five as representative jenkins pointed out does not take into consideration the needs of these communities nor does it make exceptions for cases of rape incest for the health of the pregnant women it is not our place as citizens or as politicians representing our community to make decisions about an individual's health care and future because ultimately abortion is a decision about a woman's future does she want to be a parent now or ever does she have the resources to provide for this pregnancy and eventually a family is she ready emotionally psychologically and financially to take on the responsibility of raising a child these are major life decisions that a person must make for themselves and in consultation with their loved ones physicians and faith leaders not politicians the legislature has already taken many steps to make that decision more difficult and to make the option of abortion far less feasible than before this legislature should be focused on improving the health and welfare of our community not replicating old efforts to limit health care people in Louisiana suffer when restrictions like these are passed women are suffering now and so too are the children born into families that couldn't support them we call on you who have been elected to represent your community to trust those very constituents that you serve trust Louisianians to make responsible and considerate decisions about their own bodies and vote no on HB 425 thank you miss bangle miss bond and I apologize for my terrible handwriting oh I wouldn't say it's terrible I could have read it a couple of different ways but it's miss fine correct that's correct thank you thank you for coming today so my name is Laura fine and I'm an attorney which is part of the reason why my handwriting is so bad I provide pro bono legal representation to minors who have to get court authorization in order to have abortions I'm here today express my concern about this proposed constitutional amendment House bill 45 would use the state constitution to lay the groundwork to take away the right to abortion in Louisiana and it would target poor women by making sure there could never be any public funding of abortion this bill is not only harmful but it's also a waste of time and tax dollars Louisiana laws already withhold public funding for abortion but the current law does make exceptions for rape incest and the health of the mother being in danger which as we've talked about kind of extensively today this amendment does not make those exceptions so not only would it prevent women in the situation from accessing abortions but it also prevent them from being able to access Medicaid funding which is there for them today to fund those abortions and it's particularly troubling for a woman whose life is in danger who can't afford to have an abortion to save her life and now wouldn't have access to Medicaid funds to do so Louisiana Constitution has never been interpreted to protect the right to abortion the due process rights protected by Louisiana Constitution have not been interpreted be broader than due process rights granted by the Federal Constitution and there's no reason to believe that our Constitution would ever be interpreted to find a right to abortion separate and apart from what's guaranteed by the Federal Constitution Louisiana already has a law in the books that makes abortion illegal in Louisiana if roe v wade has ever returned and it would also lay the groundwork to criminalize women who seek abortions or doctors who provide care as she know abortion is already exceedingly difficult to access in Louisiana since there are only three clinics and countless hurdles someone was faced before getting an abortion not to mention there's a proposal this session to ban abortions before most women even know that they are pregnant and this amendment is another example legislature China forces will on low-income women who will be unable to pay for abortions out of state and unable to access public funding if they're in a situation like rape incest or medical emergency a constitution is meant to be a document that looks at how we operate and function as a society how we structure our democratic process and that affirms the rights we hold dear it is meant to protect rights not to take them away thank you for your time - thank you and thank you for being concise we appreciate that very much members any questions ok thank you ladies for testifying today we appreciate it and I've already read the cards in opposition and miss Miura was already at the table representative Jackson she in the room you have a question for I'm sorry miss bazoombas on you have a question sorry yes just for the ladies that were up here miss Vaughn and miss bangle would you I'm sorry for the lateness of that I'm sorry I just have a quick question is your organization do they ever instead of spending money on assisting women who can't afford it the abortions do you spend money on doing birth control providing them with it I'm not trying to be no it's a very reasonable question thank you for asking I assume that was directed at me of the New Orleans abortion fund yes that is not our lane we work in partnership with other organizations around the state who support women's health care and health access in a variety of different ways including organizations that provide access to birth control sex education things like that we as an organization are really focused in on making sure that people have access to funding for abortion when that's what they're seeking thank you Thanks yeah representatives on that's it thank you okay didn't hear you I'm sorry all right members as part of our while we were waiting for representative Jackson to come back in the room if we can ask her to come back in part of our duty on the civil law committee is to review every constitutional amendment independent of whether it comes to us and this is under rule 6.8 a of the rules the house rules and that requires us to look at whether or not this matters require requires an accomplished can it be accomplished statutorily does it require a constitutional amendment number two this is a ballot language accurately reflect the matter such that the voter knows what they're voting on and number three looks at the ballot dates to make sure that we're receiving as much voter interest as possible and staff has determined that the measure cannot be accomplished statutorily and we've still going back and forth in the ballot language but I think we'll work that out before the floor and we already have an amendment to change the ballot date so staff recommended reporting with amendments under rule 6.8 a so based on this report and based on the fact that we've already amended the bill I'm going to go ahead and offer up the rule six point eight a report and ask if there's any objection to the adoption that reward seeing none we'll go ahead and adopt the rule six point eight a report back on the bill representative Jackson would you like to close members just to say that represent intentions would like to make a statement I just want to be clear I you know I have no problem with citizens voting on issues like this my concern is that what's going forward is going forward that the exceptions I'm not gonna object to anything you know coming out to committee today that concern remains I want some more clarification on the impact of the exceptions or the lack thereof and I want to get some clarification also from staff between now and the floor on decision so I don't want a lack of some kind of objection for me here today to be taken without some context in the record I have some concerns about the exception issue and I'm gonna look at it some more between now and the floor and I've talked with the author about that also trying to get some clarification on my talk with the staff about this language and how it may impact you know future exception legislation that may come into play because those are the biggest and burning issues with me at this particular point in time mr. chairman thank you so much for allowing me to get that clarity in the record because I know how these issues are I know how passionate people are about these issues I just want to be clear on we're staying right absolutely represented Jenkins it's an emotional issue for everyone concerned and I certainly respect your your viewpoints and I'm glad that you were able to present them and I know knowing represent of Jackson as I do I'm sure that she will work with you and please confirm with with representing Jenkins that you will between now and the floor I've been upfront I'm gonna get everyone the correct answers I'm gonna say that you know I can't say that the bill is going to comport with exceptions if the staff has an issue but you're going to have your correct answers you're gonna know how to vote on the bill you're gonna know whether you want to try an amendment on the floor like I've done on bills that I didn't agree with because I might not be with you on those exceptions but I'm give you every opportunity I'm gonna work with you from now on to the floor I plan on hearing this bill next Tuesday if the speaker acquiesce is because that's pro-life day at the Capitol that give us us from today that gives us a week to work on it and even if we don't come to an agreement and and the members know this listen I amend members bills or attempt to and so it may be an opportunity that you know you will go to the floor and it's not gonna offend me everyone has a right to participate in the legislative process and bring out the best amendment so I'll work from now on to the floor wait representative jinx's of course I work with him all the time it's going to be a pleasure we serve on they help them where we co-chair to help them welfare committee for the black caucus so that'll be a pleasure and our new rep of course I'm sure that you'll be working representative Jenkins to get the answer to that exception question as well representative SIBO and I and anyone else who wants to participate we'll be working with the staff on the language to make sure that we don't go into any great area on the support important amendment robert has already given us his staff opinion on it mr. singletery right and so we will Andrew I think and so we know we need to work with staff is what I'm saying on language and we will do that I was then ready to work with everyone you have a closing any closing I think that was it that was it excellent okay anything else mr. clapper mr. Woodleigh okay we appreciate that and just let me state for the record that a little disappointed because this double-edged sword for me because my daughter will be delivering my my first grandchild on Tuesday so I won't be able to vote YES on this bill but I want to state for the record that as it is in its current posture I would be voting YES so gradually thank you very much we're very excited about it but it's kind of double edged like I said because I won't be able to vote on this bill well maybe she'll deliver in the morning that's possible but we'll get into later but I'm not anticipating being here on Tuesday we appreciate that all right members we have do we have what's the will of the committee represent of cruises move favorable to report as amended HB 425 as amended and along with the rule six point eight eight a report favorably any objections to the reporting of this favor early seeing none HB 425 will be reported favorably and that's a unanimous vote from the committee we appreciate all of the traffic it's from representative Dinkins and representative I love it do basan basan right what their preferences always like to put that on the record for members like to thank everyone for testifying today it's as I said before it's an emotional issue to a lot of people and we really appreciate the passion that goes along with this issue and you guys handled yourselves very well our next meeting will be next Monday members really appreciate you guys coming today if you have any issues between Anna and please get with me and representative Cruz moves that we adjourn any objections seeing none we will stand