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fight natural gas so i will just very quickly introduce uh the program of the day uh as i mentioned this event is organized within the bioeconomy pilot of the vanguard initiative and in fact the coordinator of the pilot ilaria from the lombardic green chemistry association will briefly present the initiative to all of you and then we'll have the pleasure to host a keynote speech by maria victoria ortiz sales manager varsilab biogas solutions this will be a very interesting perspective for all of us which we are used to work on liquefied natural gas or liquefied biomethane for road transportation and thanks to maria victoria we'll have a perspective on the use of this fuel for uh marine and in general water transportation then i will give the word to uh matteo lorenzo de campo for from uh the company a group of aganetic again spa in italy who will present the sm bio lng business model which has been developed by his company in cooperation with other actors along the value chain which has also been supported by the bioeconomy pilot in the access to the great service of the taf the technical assistance facility and as a consequence we will close the event with a contribution by anita treigner milinaritz tough taf technical assistance facilities service coordinator who will explain the features of this service that can be accessed there will be a space for questions so i ask all the attendees to feel free to post their questions in the chat i will read the questions and i will refer them to the speak the relevant speaker i don't know if there will be time to address all your questions we will take note of your questions and possibly answer them uh privately after the meeting if we don't have uh time uh some uh etiquette for this meeting i would like to ask all the attendees to mute their microphone and turn off their video sharing panelists can share their their videos and present their slides we have tested that already i have to tell everybody that this webinar will be recorded and as i said you can ask questions in the chat slides recording and questions and the contacts of the relevant people will be available on the lg ca website chemical de lombardia dot it you can see it there at the bottom of the slide so without further ado i will give the word to the coordinator of the bioeconomy pilot of the vanguard initiative hilaria who will introduce the pilot to you ellaria please good morning everyone my name is i am the project manager director at consortium tech and project manager at the lombardy green chemistry association the webinar is promoted by the bi-economy pilot of the vanguard initiative technical coordinated by the lombard degree in chemistry cluster on behalf of the lombardy and ransom region i'm grateful for your participation and interest in the webinar focus on stimulating interaction among the experts investors policy makers on the energy sector of biofuels on enhancing inter-regional cooperation i would like to introduce briefly the bioeconomy pilot its mission and some relevant achievements obtained so far uh funded in 2013 the lombardy green chemistry association is one of the regional cluster of the lombardy region which in 2015 recognize it as a point of reference of the local bioeconomy group the the cluster brings together the leading academic and industrial players operating in the lombardy byway sector and from 2016 it's all the technical coordination of the economy pilot of the bangladesh initiative the vanguard initiative is an european association driven by a political commitment of 35 region in europe to use their smart specialization strategy to boost new growth through a bottom-up industrial innovation in european priority areas in five priority areas um in which uh bioeconomy represents a key uh element of for as a contributor for sustainable growth in this context the bioeconomy pilot contributes on enhancing inter-regional cooperation among industries and academia to boost innovation on bio-based sector by supporting the market uptake of the most promising business models called by the lombardy and rastad regions the pilot brings together 18 regions interested in increasing the local impact of the bio-based sector stimulating inter-regional business opportunity and attract public and private investment up to now four demo cases are belonging in the bi-economy pilot that's gathering 12 use cases 18 regions involved and mobilize more than 50 million of investment in research and development gathering more than 50 industries universities and rtos four main sectors are represented the oldest one the oldest demo case one is focused on producing bioromatics molecules it aims at creating inter-regional value chains to produce linen-based aromatics molecules and innovative sustainable materials fine chemicals building blocks starting from linear cellulose residues to based on biorefinery approach is the second demo case the third one is a liquefied biomethane demo case focus on enhancing a wide diffusion of bio-liquefy natural gas for sustainable transport and mobility the subject of today and finally the latest demo case is a biopolymers demo case focus on creating interregional value chains for sustainable bio-based materials and bioplastics [Music] what about the benefit and advantages in joining the bioeconomy pilot there is several benefits for regions and for companies indeed a region can identify sustainable business model linked to their smart specialization strategy potentially replicated in their regions and also can evaluate the opportunity to to boost innovation in bio-based sector by using already existing partnership alliance and demo facilities able to bring together all actors active in bio-based sector operating in their regions and finally can bring experience exchange of ideas useful for the programs and regional strategies updating on the other hands smiths and large industry can also take benefits from joining the buy economy pilot first of all the bioeconomy pilot cal can help needs and partnership on defining sustainable business model and setting up in a sustainable and affordability study towards the market exploitation of demo cases that have already achieved a good level of maturity a disease the exactly the case of uh uh the exam bio ln energy that today we were uh talk about and also uh the biopi the bioeconomy pilot can help companies in joining already existing partnership by providing their skills and expertise and also increase their capacity to attract public and private funds and finally we would be we would like uh really demonstrate today that some specific business model born in specific region can be successfully replicate and uh in order to increase the relevance and the impact of specific application around the vanguard regions and more in general around europe finally what about the main highlights of 2020 of the buy economy pilot um we are working on increasing the um part in the regions and also the company's participation in the most advanced partnership as already mentioned one of the most advanced democrats that are currently belonging in the pilot is focused on production of bioromatics molecule in this context the linear value paleo plant is already on the market and now we are looking for companies interested in testing and conduct application testing of this material to evaluate properties and potential industrial replication for several uh fine and bulk chemicals production but also we believe that a more sustainable value chain has been created across europe by connecting all actors from primary producers to the industrial application and uh for for this reason we are defining sustainable value chain and looking for new business model uh based on uh gathering all actors across the value chains finally as mentioned before the pilot can support companies on attract more investment public and from and private and for for this reason we are operating on design new sustainable business model in order to increase the capacity to to gathering uh all actors together for a more sustainable growth this is my last slide and thank you very much for the time and uh i remain at your disposal for any question and now i leave the floor to maurizio yes thank you thanks for the interesting presentation yes as a collaborator of ilaria i would like to stress to all the attendees that we are available as coordinators of the pilot to listen to your requests and explain what the pilot uh can do uh for you whether you are a company or a research institution or a an investor or an individual so um we are in good time and it is now in fact the the moment for our keynote speech of the day so it's my pleasure to give the word to maria victoria ortiz who whom i invite also to share screen maria victoria is sales manager of virtual biogas solutions and she will tell us more about the activities of our company in the area of liquefied natural gas and liquefied biomethane thank you maria for joining the floor is yours thanks a lot mauricio and first of all just control check everybody see the screen i do see it very well okay good perfect so yes mauricio mentioned i want to talk a little bit of bio lng in not only in road transportation but in shaping industry wait a second there is a problem yes i'm sorry uh there was a problem with the slides then uh what we have seen lately is the definitely an increasing of awareness of biogas potential in the shipping sector we have a lot of as you can see in the screen a lot of for example here our neighbors yeah it's important to mention that barcelona gas solution has an entity in sweden another in norway and we basically are focusing develop their biogas and business so from it was it from our neighbors there are a lot of interest in sweden for example well sweden has been always being well known in some sort of reference when it comes to the biogas sector then a it calls our attention especially even right now in the second half of the year and regardless of covet 19 we have the number of our rescue that we have started receiving from the shipping industry is quite considerably that obeys also at the main players as for example shell it says that yeah there is a huge interest in bio lng for that for the chip in the industry as well uh if we go for local then cortigruten is a cruise ship that is actually having now a north dakota agreement with one of our clients in the north of trondheim and this plan is already there producing bio lng and so far and during the last three years they have been delivering to the road biology to the road transportation now it also enters into the shipping industry so we have quite a quite an interesting uh yeah period at the moment i would say so in order to understand the drivers and basically the drivers are yes we all want to make the whole world more clean right so we have to tackle two things that the emissions which are divided into categories category one local emissions and when we talk about local emissions we talk about yeah mainly nx sox and particles and they are related to health and environment issues or consequence they have a shorter term impact and there's a local effect so hence local emissions when we talk about local emissions main focus is in carbon free for fuel sorry so basically mainly hydrogen and ammonia then we enter into category 2 which is the greenhouse gases emission that we talk about mainly co2 and methane and then they contribute to global warming and climate change and they have a long-term impact and a global effect we talk here in the under this category carbon neutral which are yeah biogas and power 2x so uh we see in barcelona we see the lng as a key enabler towards the cleaner chipping and why is that basically because we are going to cut local and greenhouse gases emission at the same time they it provided an infrastructure and a pathway for renewable fuels and it is possible to take advantage already of the infrastructure that we have with energy and just blended with either biolng or with a synthetic biomethane so let's see if we compare the zero carbon field versus the lng the main or and that is why the barcelona bets for the lng and the bio energy as a main field of the transition period we have already we know that we have the knowledge we we know how to operate under varying conditions under abnormal situations so therefore we see it as uh yeah quite easy to enter into the lng or bio lng for transitional fuel when it comes to hydrogen we see some challenges there when it comes to operation for example and of course it implies uh quite yeah high topics and ammonia on the other side we say okay it is toxic for the other side is not cryogenic fuel which could be okay all right but um and can be bankrupt without any remarkable oil of losses through its path important to mention varsila at the moment has um we are going to the to this to the the first one and the end ammonia as i said bioenergy and lng we see it as transitional fuel we have uh important project or pilot project or uh or going on now at the moment in ammonia but we see that definitely hydrogen would be perhaps the solution that perhaps is going to be the solution of the future but it's going to took to take a lot of time to get there so talking about transitions it's important to keep in mind that the transition from cold to hiv to cost 30 years and that is important to see things in perspective i think that we see we in barcelona we see things in the same way it's going to take time to get there it's going to take time to yes to have everything or hydrogen in every chip right so therefore we have to um or we want to take certain advantage of this period and uh yes and provide with solutions for it encourage the usage of bioenergy and the chipping industry so as i said before we are or our technical solutions are tackling two main sectors and it's the heavy road transportation which already we have some references there and then the shipping industry which in this case let's say that for heavy road transportation we are talking most of the time about 100 percent bio lng when it comes to shipping and we have we cannot escape from uh realities of science and the time the thing is that you need a blend most in most of the cases because there is well few cases that manage to collect enough feedstock for having a large bio lng production plant and when we talk about shipping we talk about big volumes whereas when we talk about road transportation we talk about the smaller volumes right so the fuel gas quality measures we have also in barcelona we deliver the dual fuel engine requirements which have a heating value of more than 28 megajoules per kilogram and omit a number of more than 70 or 80. this is by definition the requirements of the of the engines as such then and the energy fuel storage the the temperature which yeah our solutions have is minus 160-180 depending of of course the pressure of the storage tank important to mention here if we compare for example fossil lng in comparison to bio lnd you see that it's comparable when it comes to heating value but the advantage of and that's what yes you can mix it and even improve the the the performance of your engine is that the methane number in the bio lng is closed if not 100 is close to 100 and that is basically because of the composition of the bio lng is purely maintained whereas when we have an lng we have a mixture between nitrogen methane and ethane so that is the the main uh difference between the two i would like to talk about a bit about the the change of the bio lng production so first things first the difference between biogas and biomethane the biogas has a composition between 50 and 60 percent of methane and a 40 to 50 percent of our co2 and also contains traces of h2s and impurities the production of the biogas is by anaerobic digestion and the usage is for hidden electricity on domestic news art for operating for true for the transport fuel when it comes to methane methane has between 97 and 19a in 99 sorry um methane content and between one or two percent of co2 the production of biomethane is by bas by biogas upgrading and the usage for transfer fuel for supply to gas grid or for energy storage for base and peak loads so this is a good schematic of what we o with our solutions we take the feedstock which could be energy crops could be manure could be organic waste or sewage it enters into an aerobic digester from the anaerobic digester we have mainly two main products the raw biogas and the biofertilizer which by the way this product the bio fertilizer is actually quite in high demand at least here in norway the farmers claims that it's actually quite a good quality biofertilizer so if we follow the road of the raw biogas then we have here an upgrading facility which can be also i mean internally and i am going to go to details in the next slide but um our process of upgrading utilize heat which can be integrated with the under anaerobic digester and then from one at this from one side we have biomethane which is completely clean and we have bio co2 either to atmosphere or we can also offer the possibility to have a co2 liquefaction module here then that that biomethane which is yeah basically clean goes to or can potentially go to different and users could be for biogas to gas grid it could be the input of the processing cryogenic process for uh bio-lng production or it could be sent to compressed compression station and then the cbg or compression biogas so biogas upgrading with barcelona pure gas ca that is the name of our modules of operating and we have we come here with raw biogas we eliminate the h2s with an um activated carbohydrate then after at this point we have clean gas without h2s which is going to come to our absorb absorption column and there with a amine is good all the all these co2 molecules are going to be trapping the structure of the amine so then here on top of that column we will have a gas that is already h2s3 and co2 free and then finally we go for a gas compression and drying process to obtain biomethane important to mention here yes we cannot afford for example in a liquefaction process we cannot afford to have any of those components and the that is the main reason why uh barcelona has go to this project uh process sorry because it's the best match with our cryogenic processes the reason why we cannot afford to have those amounts of contaminants is basically because we are talking about a cryogenic process we don't want to have any corrosion we don't have to have any of course any any water because it would clog the whole system so that is what the level is so strict then and one thing that is important also to mention here is the stripping this is a closed loop with where amines goes absorb all the molecules of co2 and then those molecules that are dropping them in are dissolved in the stripping column as i said or as i mentioned previously we use heat we're going into that process of distortion and the or stripping sorry and that is what we can potentially even recover let's say uh in average 75 it could potentially be can be more of his recovery by heating integration with anaerobic digestion then after that gas is clean or this biomethane basically uh if we go for the road of bioenergy of course we follow a cryogenic process the first thing is that the clean gas is entering into a pre-cooler and this pre-cooling system it works with ammonia and then important here is to keep the system entering into minus 10 degrees always and this loop is what we call internally the mr loop mr make reference to mix refrigerant and that means basically is a mix of hydrocarbons plus nitrogen and important also to mention here varzela is quite simplistic in its approach for for offering there's some technical solutions to the market this work the same way that uh that are refrigerant in in your places it's not more complicated than that so then we have this uh yeah and a standard sort to say um refrigeration cycle where we at the end we separate light and heavy components which enter into our cryogenic heat exchangers and the magic of course so then we get a or biology in this case to minus 162 degrees and at this point and before the valve we are working the whole circuit with 20 bar then we send to the storage tank and that is pretty much it the in principle and our solutions are all containerized and and we have to say without any hesitation it it has the lowest opex in the market at least in electric consumption then we have developed through the years standard solutions because of course it makes more economical sense so we have in your left side you can see them a standard solution for upgraders and in the right yeah the the standard modules for liquid function in the in liquid function uh yes that's the first letters or the letters um make reference to the type of process that we're using in this case from 6 to 25 we use mr mixed refrigerant and then the number make reference to the capacity that that module is able to produce of bio energy per day so an mr6 would be yeah mixed refrigerant which produced six stones per day okay the same way uh sdb make reference to semi-dual brighton in these cases these are like more like as we said here the hops are bigger plants which makes more economical sense to go for another solution different to the mr cycle so in this case we work just with a cycle of nitrogen and then we have a standard capacities from 100 to 250 tons per day um yes this is a good example of a circular economy here working at the moment in norway there's a plan called scone it has a production capacity of 25 tons per day bio lng initially their plan was to go for just a road transport and that has been the case so far but um recently they got a new of the care agreement with uh yeah if you remember the ship that i ordered the cruise that i show in the first flight that is cruise and then they they have a not taker agreement with them so they are going there their ships are going to run in biology as well the important here to mention is the size of the plants are quite small if you can see to the right side there is the operating system a little bit tiny with the left is the liquor function the upgraded system is no more than 20 times 30 meters and the legal fraction falls by 20. the gas source what is uh paper mill waste which this plan is located yeah really close to the paper mill and the by boat they bring fish waste so they mix all the two together yes so my main takeaway with this presentation is yes we know that we need to we we need to fulfill right with all the requirements that now in europe are so strict so but at the same time we need to be clear into the fact that we have to go through certain transition and i think that that that the bio lng brings that that possibility of yeah fulfill with all the the green mandates and at the same time you have all the infrastructure already in place so yes basically my my conclusion was that or yeah encouraged to the time to act is now and i think biogas or bio lng offers a good solution so yes that was it so thank you maria victoria yes thank you uh i can see at the moment there there has not been any question from the audience posted i did have one and you answered with a nice uh slide on the integrated uh plant because my question was if you knew about examples of a fully integrated value chain and while i was noting down the question you showed the case of this plant on shore and that that is i just saw instead of a question i share a reflection because we should all think about this on others as a winning case of integration because there we can see that not only the biogas production is integrated with upgrade liquefaction and distribution but also the whole thing is integrated with the upstream source of raw material which is a paper mill correct and then okay and again it has an additional advantage of being on shore on the shore sorry which means that uh transportation by boat of the of the other raw material is uh is easy and um what my opinion is that this is what we should be looking for to make to leverage on all these possible advantages to make the realization of these integrated value chains possible and economically uh feasible absolutely absolutely so thank you very much maria victoria i hope that we will be in contact in future to uh to do some work for vanguard together sure i hope i i wait for that call that's good and uh so then we can move on in the program and talking about integrated value chains and new bio lng value chains uh we are all looking forward to listen to the presentation of and uh can i say mateo his brainchild his creation uh the the bio smb uh sorry s and bio lng business model mateo the floor is yours thank you very much mauricio now let me share my presentation okay did you see yes yes okay good morning to everyone i thank you our guest to host me here and thank you all to listen me today i'm mateo lorenz to the campus ceo of magnetic group we are a medium-sized company set in the northern part of italy and for job we do industrial transport simply we ship goods with big trucks very easy very clear at some point of our history we decided to apply to our main business strategy the sustainable philosophy making it a point of no return for our business model the first step we undergone innovative certification helping them to develop to the market as uh sustainable logistics by a slog uh transport compliance rating and we've set a new company standard becoming a benefit company such as a benefit in italian and becoming a certified b core i'm very proud of this certification but especially the last one the b corp one uh because it's a movement that declare business as a positive force to create value to all the community we impact and not only for a low number of people usually already reach but here we are we've done many things but our biggest success will be the production plant of v4 in the next 20 days we start to produce around 2 000 tons for here of liquid biomethane becoming probably the first transport company rod transport company that intensively use biobase renewable fuel for our fleet and for third part vehicle so as the presentation before i have told us how biomedicine is done all the process in our case this biomethane is done from animal waste and agricultural waste no first culture product will be used uh just waste or rotational culture not taking away any space for food crops that's what italian law called advanced biomethane so a biomass and dawn without taking away any space for human or animal production and that's a very big achievement for us this i think only 10 years ago was totally unthinkable 35 percent of our fleet will go on the road with a renewable biological fuel built publicly at zero zero kilometer from here that's a very very big achievement and that's uh and that fuel will pump us to for seven million of kilometers that's a very very big number uh yeah uh as we say we are not simply saying it but we are certificating it for us without the certification words are only worth so we're helping relay realizing uh attestation of use of of this view of well we believe this step will be done by a growing number of companies in the next year and ourselves are targeting uh for a full 100 percent view full fleet so to following this line we are following two different parts the first one is this one so provide for a complete structurability of the use of bio fuel through specific certification that we call vo lng certification and we are developing it with a two scientific partner that will help us that's very important because if someone do something good it must be certified and then it can sell it to their clients it's the market the second one and probably the most important one is the dissemination of our project of all its element so that it can be replicated and we wish improved by also other companies our objective is not to be the first and lonely company to do that but to share our information with others and let our specific sector grow in a very sustainable way this is why we are so proud of the work done with the european taff staff and with ital biotech because without them our project will be condemned to be ours alone thanks to them instead our project could become a milestone of many sustainable sustainable projects and lets unless supply chain grow to a very sustainable finish line so that's all uh i have to say i thank you all of you and especially anita enrique martinez mauricio for the job you've done with us for the tough and for any question you can have you can feel free to contact me in any moment now obviously but also later or in the next days thank you very much thank you matteo thanks your presentations are always very inspiring for me and i hope it has been the same for uh many of the attendees i do not see questions but i do have two questions and i start with with one i am choosing it because i want to see how difficult i want to make it for you i make the most inspiring one why you have been first uh we we will be first in italy and probably [Music] only for some month not for here because we are not thinking anymore as a single company but we're thinking as a supply a really supply chain system and we got the right client the right partner the right idea and we built first a complete chain that's the very difficult thing nobody can do this alone you need to have a a complete chain that asks that we're working on that from sims years and today was the achievement of that so we are first probably because uh sustainability is not a strong it was not a strong setting in our business model in our business space in in our sector today things are changing but are changing and we are we have a very young administration that instead push it very very far very fast thank you for your answer i think you you raised two very significant points which i also agree very much with which is the integration through the value chain and uh which is important for economical sustainability of this usage as a fuel and that the premium you can have today thanks to the environmental advantage is is different from the one that that that people hoped for yesterday but it wasn't there um okay so i have a question here in the q a i think we have time uh if you can try to reply i have a question that says could you elaborate more about the business side of the project that is if it is still profitable or how you make it profitable to me [Music] as today we think it's profitable under some hypothesis so our business plan will be public through taf and it'll be effect they've done this especially this to let it open so if you have uh the right client if you have the right location where put your fuel station you can make it profitable yes the number will be public in the next week i think great thank you mateo and thanks again for your contribution you have during your presentation you have also mentioned the taf technical assistance facility i'm glad to hear that you are satisfied and you are happy of the service and i'm glad to know that in fact we will hear about the technical assistance facility right in the next presentation i'm very happy to give the floor to agnita tregna and linarets a tough service coordinator so please anita log in and the floor is yours thank you again mateo see you later thank you very much to marito thank you very much matteo i hope you can hear me let me also try to share my screen can i confirm that we can hear you and we can see your screen super thank you so much also for inviting me to to speak more about technical assistance facility for industrial modernization investment or how we call it short stuff because this is uh the service of the european commission is the technical assistance uh that three of us partners that are listed here are delivering on behalf of the european commission and it's very good to hear uh that we have already satisfied the beneficiaries because of course this is the main goal and the main points of the service uh we started in january 2019 uh so this is a three-year project uh and the idea of it is to support uh the projects as mateo has explained so those uh that are under history platform for industrial modernization uh so there are a lot of partnerships over there uh who put their expression of interest uh in order to uh create together with the the other partner regions um of the investment projects they are having in mind under a specific thematic area uh as you know also the commission is very much looking now into of course you know the ground component is always very much present but also the commission really wants to foster more and more uh investment projects uh uh popping out and you know coming to see the light of the day uh also we've been discussing yesterday the instruments that are going to support them uh so it is very important then also to have a technical assistance that will help uh the regions working together into developing the investment projects because usually you know we are more into into a european uh type of you know ground projects than the investment one for that reason the commission put in place this service uh together with business experts that will also help to see the other part of it uh so this uh services intended to support uh some 25 individual projects we have already delivered service uh i think you know some to some six or so uh so there's there's still place you know for more to be supported and the idea is in general um as the slide says here uh that we uh support the investment readiness of these projects that have been created so as i said you know when it comes to the targets beneficiaries we are having in mind so these are the partnerships other industry of israp industrial platform uh so as you know one guard initiative is also one of them so we were happy to have the chance uh to support uh uh the one of sm lng as well uh but as i said there are many other uh over there so whoever gets to the maturity level uh that is uh is is having a project that is already you know having a business model um uh around that uh then you know we can and the industry involvement it's present uh then uh you know those are the type of projects and the teams that the taf is targeting um this is not an easy task uh we have been you know seeing so far and this is also the reason why we don't have that many projects that we were able to provide support is because they didn't have all these components you know listed here present meaning that we saw that there is a challenge to the partnerships to be able to involve the industry uh and also it's not only industry of course uh it's uh you need to have all the right stakeholders on board uh so that you can that you can secure at the end also the implementation of the idea that you have in mind so apart from the industry it's important to have academia research institutions and all these other stakeholders that are relevant you know for for this investment idea to be implemented so uh as i was saying it's not so easy to apply for this service in a sense that uh you have to be ready you have to be ready and thinking uh that the investment project you have in mind uh it is revenue generating as also this question was asked to mattel about you know the uh you know if if there's gonna be you know any any you know in terms of you know sustainability etc but uh there is there also you know this you know being you know well thought in terms of the financials uh then also the investment projects uh that uh we are looking at that they they should have uh the public and you know if possible confinence component also thought because uh these projects uh of course the commission you know is gonna put uh and it's putting off certain financial instruments you know to foster this type of investments uh but also it is always important to have in mind the co-financing component since we are talking about the regions that are mobilized around uh this projects is also important then you know to have the support of them of the regional authorities and then also see you know if structural structural funding or other type of funding can be also uh put uh or secured at least to a certain extent then you know for this you know projects you know to get finance together with you know other type of blended finance that could come into place like the one coming from eibb or some other sources as i said uh this service is uh targeting investment projects so we are not looking here at the typical horizon 2020 project of course you know this can be you know an add-on on that but uh the projects we are having in mind are really those as you would you know pitch to the investor you know meaning they need to have the business component and the clear investment proposition and moreover this is you know what in what it is important we want you know to see that you know together working with you we will be able to finalize uh the business plan that you are having in mind so that we can see that you know this uh this project is also going to have the commercial component and it's going to be a place in the market so when we are talking about the investment proposition you know compared to as i was saying european funded project is you know you have you know when applying you know for this service you you need to think as you are going to the bank as i was saying if you are going to pitch your project in front of the investor meaning that you need to have all the right elements you know of it so that you know once you know we'll be looking at it you know we will say okay so yeah you know we see that uh this uh this project is bankable uh and that you know there are grounds you know for it that we can work with you together you know to help you to shape it until you know you will really have a good business plan in mind so that you can you know go to uh ask for funding if not already uh uh pre-secured so what does it entail you know to apply for this service uh so as we said you know this this is the technical assistance of the european commission meaning that for you you know this is free of charge but you have to apply for it and yeah there is a dedicated uh web page and a link to it uh and really the best is really to first uh to have a look uh and to have a look at the application and see what elements does it entail because first of all you have to fulfill the admission admissibility criteria and as i said we are targeting the partnerships under extra platform foreign so you know this is the first one uh that you that you need to satisfy uh then you know you have to go you know through it and you need to be able to specify your project uh and it's doing it in a very clear way because this is also something that we've been uh seeing you know from applying and applications uh that we have been evaluating so far that it was also a bit of struggle you know to our regions and to the partnerships to clearly describe you know their investment idea uh then what it's also pre visit you know for applying uh if you have an idea in mind and you have you know the main actors are mobilized around it then it will be good that you have you know letters of support or memorandums of understanding as our colleagues from uh the smb lng had uh so that you know we can see that you have committed you know human resources uh that will be uh working you know with our tough experts uh to to be able actually to do the activities and and the job envisioned uh so this is not uh this needs to be taken seriously because we need to see that you know commitment is here because otherwise you know it's very hard to achieve the objective uh so but it's as i said the application form it's available online you can see it via this link and all the elements and the guidelines you know very uh clearly described so you will get a better picture by looking at it what doesn't entail but of course we can always be contacted to provide you with more information and will be more than happy to so uh when just quickly uh if you would be uh applying for for this service uh what it needs to be clearly described so that we can also you know that you can be assessed uh positively is that as i said you know you need to be clear about the product and services uh that you are targeting you know video investment proposal also for your client and customers at least you know to the next to the first possible extent uh then also as i was mentioning it's important uh to have uh right actors you know mobilized because the team and also to be good that you know those that you are targeting in a way validated your idea which means that you know even before applying you had to you know had kind of a market you know test approach you know seeing if those that you are targeting say well yeah this is the service you know that we need to have in the market as mateo was also explaining uh moreover as also said you need to have a business model behind it uh and also have you know at least you know an idea what the revenue streams and the cash flow is going to be because otherwise we are not talking about the investment proposal uh and also what it's important to uh um to note here is that these projects that we are looking at you know how to have the internal international dimension so it is okay you know if uh you know two regions for example from italy you know those you know that uh uh that are the ones you know that are driving you know this idea but also it would be it would be good to showcase that you know this model could be replicated in other regions uh and that there is already you know an idea about it because you know that this is what uh what this service is targeting and uh also what it's important you know to note that we need to see clearly you know the leadership uh behind it you know so who is going to be driving this investment idea forward and especially in terms of the implementation because as said uh you know it takes time you know to work and you know to finalize uh the objective and you know the business plan as our colleagues matteo maurizio elaine martin and others know because it really took time to to work with our experts and to do the exchange in order to be able to finalize the business plan so the right expertise and profiles need to be in place as well as they do need to have resources and time you know for these activities uh to to uh to be uh undertaken and also as already mentioned before private sector engagement is really crucial here uh because it's it's it's hard you know to to get you know to uh to the fact to the point of implementation if industry it's not involved um and also then you know this also is adding you know the commercial value to the project as well as i said the institutional backing is also very very important because this you know leads to securing you know funding and financing as well as implementation and replication so it's very good to have all these actors uh already mobilized you know around your idea before you applying uh so you know just to just to give you a few more words of then you know in summary you know what does it entail so as our colleagues were saying you know this is a valuable service because it it really gives a perspective to the projects and the opportunity to work you know with the business experts of different expertise uh that can really help shape up your projects because very often you know there are very good ideas but sometimes this other angle is very important you know so that you can really uh you have a business a good business plan in hands but then as i said you know to apply you know just you know do you know your homework uh you know look at the application and the elements that need to be specified over there and make sure that you are eligible you know when applying make sure also that you have mature investment ideas so that you know all this that we were saying about the customers of the market etc that you did your homework to a certain extent and that you can clearly describe what do you want to achieve with this investment proposal because then it's also going to be much easier to uh to put a good application uh together uh it takes time to prepare uh so we would say that you know good month of you know work and preparation would need to uh to be in place in order for you to uh to apply uh it is not that if you are rejected you you cannot reapply uh this is not the case but then again it takes time to improve the application etc and this service is not gonna be in place very much longer so uh i would then you know encourage that it's better to do good preparation uh than than to waste time and applying more more times even though as i said there's no problem with that as well um there is also you know this issue as we were saying that you it's it's good to uh to showcase this institutional backing as well as the one of the private sectors so you know try you know to get you know their commitments um in showcases to us because as i said then this also means that um there is your idea is mature enough you have the right you know team expertise and support in place and then this will you know this will definitely uh be a much easier uh and much better evaluated and this will also show us a signal uh that you are ready uh to to work with us uh and as i said you know just have in mind uh that to apply for this kind of a service uh it is again about the investment proposals with the international dimension so this means that uh we are not looking at european you know type of research projects or we do but they need to be at the higher tier level so that we can really uh help you in shaping up the business model and hopefully also guide you to the way of you know securing funding and help you to commercialize your project so uh you are free to contact me if you have any questions uh we also do kind of a pre-check of of the investment ideas you know to to give the first feedback if uh this uh idea is mature enough so to help you know to guide and support uh so that uh the whoever wants to apply uh they're more successful in that uh and as i said uh it's uh the service that's still in place uh we are having uh more of cut-off dates uh uh for the applications set uh for this year so there will be one in october and most probably one in november and then there will be new ones coming out of next year so please you know visit the website and you know have a look and you know contact us if you will have any questions thank you so much thank you anita thank you very much for the comprehensive uh presentation uh i'm glad that you have been uh so clear in my opinion because uh the the key points you raised have been in fact the the the key points for us while uh going through the uh process of uh the application so i just would like to stress that uh being ready for it it is very important and the preparation phase in my opinion is the one that takes the most time i see there is a question if it is for uh [Music] no that it is not directly for um for anita and um yes there is uh there is a general question i will i will read it as i speak [Music] by richard harding possibly a more open general question in addition to the taf would it be possible to go into more about other linkages between the fascinating cases presented and the smart specialization strategy processes can it be said for example that different elements of the smb bio lng initiative result from enhanced entrepreneurial discovery processes edpp or improved s3 governance cross-sectorial multi-level connected with s3 in the partner region any specific examples of this well um for me this is a little bit of a complicated answer i don't know if anita if you have it in front of you and you feel like uh replying it now or maybe privately to the to the person that has uh that has asked this question if you need more time to to understand it and reflect please feel free to decide you now okay so well definitely i mean old as as i said all these s3 partnerships uh that we are supporting of course the thematic areas that have been chosen are very much related uh to their smart specialization strategies that that is one you know of of you know the goals uh that the platform is targeting and of course yeah i would say that this is very much related uh to the adp of course and you know this this is what it's uh what is the value of regions working together uh because you know we've been seeing um uh let's say evolution you know by by partnerships working together exactly in developing you know and strengthening the new value chains um and you know really having a very good exchange in terms you know of you know the ideas and what can be achieved together um so it is we are discussing you know already with the commission you kn w if there is um if there's maybe you know it could be something can be done more in that regard you know to to support these processes this is also kind of a let's say learning by doing experience um you know a little bit um and i believe that uh because there are more services that are in place uh you know in terms of in in addition to tf there is a reconfirmed service that is actually supporting the partnerships in this also adp process i would say um and we are trying you know to support the regions you know in uh actually building this you know cross sectoral uh you know value chains and you know uh you know developing in in a way and also the expertise that maybe it's it's it's not you know uh in in you know in their um with them you know per se because uh you know it depends you know of you know of the expertise that you know the the partnerships and the teams have you know there's always something in addition that it was needed especially now that we've been working with them you know in developing this investment projects uh so as i said you know it's still kind of a learning experience and i think that once you know we will be able you know to evaluate also you know be on on on the basis of success you know hopefully that will be achieving through this what then maybe should also you know uh you know what is missing and should still be in place you know for these linkages you know to be more strengthened you know and you know and developed you know in the future and to see what you know other results could be achieved thanks anita for the answer so i think that if there are there are no more questions i think i we can close today the the meeting of the day i would like first of all to thank the speakers for their time and their interesting contributions and of of course the green chemistry lariat for the excellent organization all the work done for the bioeconomy pilot and then of course all the attendees for their interest for the questions and for just being here so thanks everybody if let me see there are okay you know there are questions but they can be replied by uh privately so thank you again and see you soon for some nice work together as always bye bye bye thank you bye-bye bye