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welcome everyone to this second plenary session at uh this year's annual general assembly my name is chris galvin i'm the head of communications and outreach at icoka so um there's one change from the previously publicized uh event agenda and that is that gene devlin can sadly no longer be with us today but i am delighted now to introduce richard wilde who is director of government and defense at control risks he's also chair of security and complex environments group and he will be our moderator for today's discussion and so with no further ado i'm going to hand over to richard thanks very much chris um i'm going to start with my own housekeeping thing i hope everyone can hear me and if there are problems obviously do come in on the q a channel and highlight that um as chris said i'm um the director for government and defence in control risks but probably more importantly for this forum i represent as the chairman the uk's security and complex environments group so we're kind of a sister service to icsu very much a very strong supporter of icoca what i'm going to do today is open proceedings uh actually introduce our our panel um and then speak a little bit about how i see and i i suppose it's important for me to emphasize its personal view although it influenced obviously by control risks some of the global challenges that are coming our way and then i will be asking the eminent panel members to talk on their own particular topics so um just going around the three uh main speakers today i'd like to start with um gauche um who will be leading without me trying to confine him to too many specific details on the impact of covid globally um then there is carmen rosa de leon who will be talking a lot about the latin american aspects of uh regional um regional perspectives and security and then there's also obviously um alessandra arduino who will be talking mostly on china and the impact of issues like belton road i i'll just say a little bit about my views of global perspectives i think they're ones that most of our listenership would have come across in their own conversations colleagues and also possibly in the margins of what has been discussed yesterday i think we can't avoid and that's why i think it's a very important topic the issue of covid uh someone in the uk said in an eminent conversation the other day that it has forced 10 years development of society into six months so there's a huge issue there about health about how that has changed the way people do business but importantly for us around the world it's had a big effect on investment or will do it's had an effect on in what governments are doing about investment overseas in developing countries on aid for example the uk and i suspect the uk is not too different to other places has had to review the amount of money it puts towards helping the developing world that's gone considerably and that will have an impact on stabilization of issues in the developing world in the same way the gdp contraction that many western countries will be facing will mean that there is less money to spend on stabilizing institutions around the world in that context you have a rising concerns about um strife in places like mozambique libya what the west predominantly but other countries too will do about those places how will manage that threat from the european perspective sahel remains a very considerable challenge and has simply no longer been read about in the western newspapers but has not disappeared in any way and then there's of course another major factor which is the stresses between china and the us the rival of a new american president he will obviously be very different to his predecessor but at the same time i think there are similarities there which have surfaced which the democrat party will also take seriously and so i think the world is changing and with that comes the challenges for us and i remember speaking about a year ago at icoca i was lucky enough to chair a separate um breakout panel and even then before covered i tried to highlight the importance of us maintaining our standards it's very easy for people in all these very stressful situations to have firms or institutions saying let's do this differently let's do it more cheaply let's not worry about what some people are saying um and therein lies i'm afraid great weakness and we must forcefully you know resist that temptation and encourage our governments to do the same too so i think using both the the ethical perspective it's very interesting esg will be talked about today i'm sure um that we keep our countries free feet firmly to the fire as they say especially since government attention has been distracted many governments have a specific bandwidth about what they can concentrate on at any time very often reflecting on their public perspectives and we've got to make sure that they understand what we do is important so i'm going to stop there now um and i haven't really got an order so i'm going to go back to an order that was suggested to me earlier which is to start with passing the metaphorical football over to alexandra if that's all right i can see he's slightly shocked by that i suppose it's one of the disadvantages of starting with an alphabetical system uh alessandro but i would very much like to hand on to you subject to there being any questions that people want to have or have raised on q a and if i don't hear anything from chris in in literally three or four seconds we'll pass on to alexandro and look forward to very much about china and the implications of the rise of china thank you thank you very much richard um not surprised that because having a name and a family name and they start with the double a since i was the one called upon first on interrogation so basically today i will just to briefly uh do two things first of all i'd like to thank ikoka for you have invited me today to participate to this uh very important panel and i would like to talk basically about to think the first techniques talk about china private security sector and the second what are going to be the future trend especially along the belton road initiative the belt and road initiative uh started in 2013 is a president xi jinping foreign policy most important initiative and it's valued around 4 trillion us dollar investment looking from a private security point of view there was a lot of excitement in 2013 and 2014 and a lot of internal chinese private security companies were looking at the bri the belt and road initiative as a chance to make more money effectively just going outside chinese border up to now uh is not the case in most of instance first and foremost because bri started to show some promising results or some result a few years later in 2015 2016 and also in the private security sector as it happened i do believe not only in china the allocation of money for the security budget is not one of the primary concern for the main client and in china private security company in the security market by client essentially i mean the chinese state owned enterprises of course we have to make a distinction between the chinese company who operate in oil and gas or in telecommunication in ict who already used to operate in a complex environment well before the belt and road initiative but then if we look at the chinese private security market inside china the trend is basically uh one of shrinking and by shrinking i mean essentially uh up to a few years ago there were five thousand to eight thousand private security company with more than three million security guard china is still a pretty safe country so basically we just have an armed guard looking entrance of building or infrastructure while uh the market is shrinking because in the last 10 years has been a race to the bottom a company just bidding with the lowest price not with a higher quality and higher quality of course mean a higher price for the end user at the same time the market for the burton road initiative security on the belton road that's what i want to speak today uh see not 5 000 8 000 chinese private security company but just few dozen of companies that have been adventuring outside with positive results it's quite important because i coca started to engage early this company underlying the importance of transparency accountability certification and still now a chinese private security company outside china are considered a kind of newcomer in the security market and there are still a lot of chance for international company for best practice and for the end user to engage with the company in shaping uh the narrative in shaping how to regulate the procedure outside china uh chinese law in regard to the internal development of the company is very clear it's possible to open a chinese private security company since 93. the law has been updated in 2010 while for chinese company going outside china beside the bank to carry weapon there is still an ample gray area that beijing is uh defining just as we are speaking so basically uh complex environment are in area along the most invested area for the berton road initiative for example in pakistan we have the sino-pakistan economic corridor that amount to more than 60 billion us dollar investment or in african continent for example we witnessed an increased footprint of chinese private security company but in all this area uh let's say the common denominator is the fact that there are countries that are considered with country are unable or unwilling to provide security service to protect chinese infrastructure and chinese personnel most of the chinese private security company operating abroad basically to guarding infrastructure against vandalism against criminal action or against political violence but there are just a few number of companies who are highly professional and are operating for example on maritime security near the coast of somalia in anti-virus mission or in kidnapping and ransom as i mentioned before from the african continent protecting guardian against the non-state actors against the religious political problem or with all the problems that the crisis that can erupt in the area there is still an ample space for cooperation between international company international security provider and the chinese company uh also in uh k and r kinepin for ransom there is not only an ample space to cooperate with international private security company but with something that i think a little bit late but now is coming to uh be a matter of importance in china the role of insurance especially especially insurance insurance regard to kidnapping and ransom and so on finally a high-level chinese private security company start to realize how it is important to be insured to follow guidelines when going abroad of course the race to the bottom in terms of prices and in terms of capability is still a problem that is not only related to the chinese private security sector but for example if we move from pakistan when there are high level private security local private security that are interested to cooperate with chinese and the government who already uh ignited a process of using the army in protecting chinese investment in uh in the african continent the the narrative is completely different first and foremost in africa there is still a kind of historical bias that is related to mercenaries activities in the 70s also is one of the area in which not the state enterprises from china but the private company started to invest a decade ago and in this respect this company run uh years ago a kind of private militia in protecting especially the the mining sector and that it creates ambiguity for the newcomer from china who are private security companies who are uh registered and this armed militia the mercenary stigma was a problem and then of course uh understanding the african continent for the chinese private security company uh is still an issue and especially in area where the need as well for example like mozambique is more for private military company than private security company i think my time is running out so i want just to look what are the future trend uh coveted 19 create a lot of problem also in china even the fact that chinese economy is bouncing back with almost five percent gdp increase but for the chinese private security company has been also an opportunity and the opportunity is to use something that already they have at hand that it come quite cheap and they know how to use and use high technology there are a lot of chinese company that are world leader in uh for example drones and i mean for a private drone not for military drone uh visual recognition ai software recognition facial recognition and this kind of security software and the chinese private security company definitely are going to be the ambassador and the spare head of this technology in the near future so as i mentioned before ecoca is well placed uh to operate efficiently and uh to avoid that spillover negative spillover are are going to happen but if we are looking at the future uh one of the most important thing in my opinion is the fact that we need service integration promoting cooperation with international private security company with international leading insurer who know how to promote risk and crisis management and to integrate uh cyber security and monitoring of transparency and uncountability not only in the use of force but in the use of data and i will end with this and i will be open for your question and answer soon thank you very much back to you richard alessandra thank you that was absolutely fascinating and i'm sure there will be at the end a lot of people on the q a side uh who want to to ask you some questions and china is you know utterly interesting and too big to to ignore i've got some of my own questions but they can wait um thank you alessandra okay um shall i on the same basis of the alphabet carmen um wonder if i could ask you to take up the next stage of our panel discussion um and over to you and i i understand and i'm very keen to hear about your view of latin american developments and the wider hispanic environment thank you richard and thank you to aikoka mission and i received from crease many questions than the seven minutes that i have to present however i'm going to try to limit myself to the seven minutes and address all the aspects that i've been questioned in latin america is one of the areas where where the private security companies have emerged more recently and in the context that we have to clarify that most of them come from or emerge after internal conflicts in countries and they are a great source of the sector for a great source of job for the military sector and this brings us to the fact that in the case of guatemala for example 99 of private security companies are in hands of former military personnel and high military personnel that's forbidden by law and this happens in that in america where they're also in hands of former police or inactive or active policemen so the growth is huge in the continent because also there is a very severe problem of lack of capabilities from the states or resources from the states in particular small states or weak states in order to be able to provide security to all citizens and that has led to the fact that the sector has evolved very quickly as a way of providing security to different areas and as indicated uh by the geneve center for the governance of the security sector according to decaf in 2017 we had more than 16 000 companies of private security that we're providing jobs to 2.4 million people and this is only 2017 however there is being growth in some countries of more than 125 percent in the last few years in this sector and in others 50 in other words it's going to depend a lot on the conflicts inside countries and also the capabilities of the police to be able to provide security in a more effective manner and uh one of the problems our these lack of balance is that we see that there's greater security guards in most of the country than the same police or the security forces that provide the security this is a sector that grows enormously and twofold or threefold in some cases the same forces of uh security in the state however amounts the business is a hig it's quite profitable in the case of mexico it represented about 1.5 billion u.s dollars in brazil 650 workers private workers and also with amounts that go to 14 billion us dollars in expenses in private security we have to understand also that latin america is the most violent continent in it we have more than uh let's say 19 of every 10 violent crimes occur in the that occur in the world occur in latin america 19 out of 20 and 17 of the most violent cities in the world are also in latin america as well as four of the five countries with greatest violence this feeds the perception of insecurity and therefore willing to have private security this will of having private security therefore the same militarization of the sector leads us to have high connections between private security companies and the control bodies determined by countries as well as also agreeing on the decision-making of governments that is one of the issues that i feel are the most important to continue determine to professionalize this sector because at the end of the day there's many indirect liaisons that lead us to ask less standards or to skip the standards and likewise the laws are not necessarily the same in other countries there are good standards in many of these countries but what we find is that the standards are not applied the norms are just skipped over therefore the standards are skipped over so where is the bulk of the sector is in um destructive companies in natural resources mining agro industry in in also trade at malls small stores so the problem we'll have in this sector is that not only there is great companies but there's many very little companies or companies very small companies or companies that are very shrunk with very few security agents and provide security in neighborhoods and also the state hires companies for some specific tasks in particular to uh look at uh some people so if the companies precisely because of how lags and dark of the relationship that exists between former militaries and governments makes these them and not to be properly supervised they are not accountable in case of irregularities or in case of corruption and this is kind of a common denominator in most of the latin american countries some countries have more problems like those countries that are weaker for example for the control of these uh security companies however in the case of guatemala we have a unit within the police the national civil police that's in charge of the supervision of security companies to be able to look at the demands of the uh private security companies and the supervision of private security companies that is in the ministry of the interior nevertheless there are around 12 or 13 police the ones that have to cover hundreds and thousands of private security companies so the supervision is very is very has a great deficit it's almost non-supervision and as we said before the reports of these same companies are not clear and they skip the standards later i will talk about which are the effects of skipping the norm the standards but if it is the small size and informality is one of the most common traits in private security companies and a provision of private security services as well as making almost impossible to estimate the size of the sector in the continent in general for example in mexico there is 80 percent of private companies that operate outside the regulatory framework in the case of guatemala in the survey we did from ipad is we found that 30 percent of companies didn't exist when we did a direct inquiry to users in whole households so there is the informality is one of the most important problems because that leads us not to be able to assign accountability and that leads us to another issue that is the topic of the use of weapons because we've proven in many countries that also a private security companies because of the connection they have with uh the military the body is the uh the warehouses are not served they're not supervised and they have used their venues for um arms trafficking in central america and that has led has been demonstrated and that has been identified by several countries throughout the central american region in other words the presence of the presence of weapons and the use of a private security companies to accept supposedly weapons that have been sold but they go into the black market so there we have another very serious issue that is also connected to the presence uh uh that this informality that of the lack of control of these security companies of private security companies for example there's a data that says that more than 40 percent of illegals of the weapons in el salvador are tied to 450 private security companies that are cases where they hire the weapons from these private security companies to be able to use them for hours without knowing what they're for and in some cases uh companies that are dissolved they transfer the weapons with no control without changing the name of the user so this leads to a situation when the weapons appear they appear under the name of people or agencies that do not exist anymore when they are used in an inadequate manner in the case of kovid i'd rather speak about the results when there's no oversight of these companies and about human rights i will talk about the rights of the employees of the companies and then outside the employees of the companies normally since according to the law in guatemala they have to have the minimum wages but many companies do not declare the exact amount of employees or agents they have higher they have hired so this is so ridiculous that there are companies that declare that they only have one or two or three security officers when everybody knows that they are very large companies with hundreds of uh agents so they do not pay the minimum wage and therefore they don't have right to any health services public health services and in the case of the survey that we carried out in guatemala 80 percent of the guards we interviewed that did not even uh earn the minimum wage so that means that that 80 percent has not been declared to the national directorate for private security services enterprises in guatemala so how has this affected in the context of kovid well it affected because people could not go to their homes therefore they had to live in closed places and the agency for human rights guatemala found a company that had almost 70 people living in five or six rooms never going out some industries or some uh companies like uh in guatemala in other countries it has happened so i'll leave covey on the side which are the main issues in regard to the violations of human rights in these companies well fundamentally these are the greatest conflicts happened and emerge in regard to the extraction companies and the implications this has on the communities especially in countries where we have many indigenous uh communities because no previous surveys according to protocol 169 from the ilo for previous consultations so this starts triggering a great conflicts that are happen all over the place in many locations the problem is that the companies have hired private security companies and if they're in the hands of military men they have another conception about the use of force and another conception on how to react in the case in this case especially knowing that we're coming out from internal armed conflicts so most of the conflicts that have arisen because of the very poor actions from the employees of private security towards the communities because they have shot people and this increases the conflicts and the violence and this makes it more difficult for the companies to abate the levels of of these conflicts the rate of of conflicts now on my side is there there's a question i don't know if i should answer it now or later what is the role of icoka here very well i can leave it at that because the rest i have are suggestions on how to tackle this issue what can i coca do in the latin american region the topic uh on kovid maybe we can begin and we have a very uh very low rate of women but it's but especially because of the work conditions and according to what alessandro said according to the advantages of technology we have identified in us case study that we carried out is that women in the private security sphere are hired for i for for the man to handle the cameras for security and this is a sector that in the context of covid has grown so it seemed to us quite interesting that the technology areas an area where women have had more presence a greater pres presence not so in the case of other types of services however it is indispensable to see a growth of women in this sector especially for those companies that guard uh malls um that guard shops and homes because we must not allow the access of men in case there's a conflict or there's a conflict with the women or violence against women so i leave it at that richard and then we'll answer the questions thank you well thank you very much indeed common some fascinating things there especially about the gender question as well and again i'm sure that's something that our listeners want to raise in the q a because it's something that must be taken forward okay well gratitude can i move to you then as the the last of our our panel um uh before we go into the q a um very interested to hear about your views on the impact of covid um tying in several themes i think i suspect that our previous eminent panelists are probably highlighted already but over to you indeed thank you very much i just think malfila just invited itself on my presentation let me just open it quite quickly uh there we go all right so i'm going to share my screen as i just have a couple of slides to present there we go tell me when you see it and i will go full mode yep i think we've we've got it all right do you see the did you see the presentation mode or the full one i haven't got all of it that i've just got right um yeah perfect so you should see all right so it's done perfect thank you very much so uh quite quickly good morning afternoon to all of you um allow me just first to express my gratitude to the international code of conduct association and and jaming and christopher inviting me to speak today as it is my first time speaking to the international code of conduct surrounded by this panel of experts uh members of servers and supporters so my name is gautier pogo and i'm the security director at international sos just quickly my role as sos is to advise c suite on corporate resilience crisis management and security issues i'm also one of the crisis operator for the emea region and finally i am a thought leadership initiative developer for all content related to the deity of care in the next seven to eight minutes i will share some of my videos yes i'm going too fast can you change the view on your slides yes can you can you say put it in kind of is it better like this yes there we go all right so that was the presenter mode perfect so uh in the next uh minutes and there we go i think you can take 10 minutes um i shouldn't okay all right perfect so in the next 10 minutes i will share some of some of my views on the impact of kobe 19 on us uh and on our client and draw out some key takeaways looking at 20 or 21. the year 2020 has been and i think you will all agree with me a year full of twists and turns uh our understanding is that 2021 will be the year of change as as richard mentioned it and they say if you found 2020 surprising 2021 will be uh is full of promises too the impact of kobe 19 and second and third order security issues have already and will drastically change the way companies and organizations relate to the way they work operate travel and meet the logical consequences and we are currently observing speaking to the 12 000 clients we have been supporting this year is the revision of their risk appetite rethinking their more disobedient and appreciation of the situation so allow me to share with you the five key messages based on our understanding of the situation and its possible development so the first key message is crisis change so must you international sos identifying the major need in this domain and following the request of many customers has decided to transform its role as a medical security travel risk assistance provider into a medical and security operational workforce protection provider addressing the full spectrum of workforce protection so that's the one major impact of kobe 19 already on us but the market needs an integrated medical and security solution is no longer a nice to have but a must-have it is a logical and legitimate reaction of organizations that wants to face nimbly this next new normal to come as any medical operations requires a 360 security support any security action is now linked to a 360 medical approach our membership used to propose medical and security services separately if needed but now we provide automatically both medical and security services as reality demonstrated that one cannot go without the other our second message as you all know it pandemic scenarios and medical issues have often been the poor relations within companies and among employees so health is back that's the second message the situation is seized as an opportunity for many clients to conduct a thorough review of their internal organization we see it in our assistance center although travel may have majorly decreased clients employee causes five times more and managers are 10 times more requests focus mostly on comprehensive medical and security risk identification and recommendations support for fully informed decision making advices on adapted strategies and consistent communication as health security and logistics issues are intertwined the need for specialized advice is increasing the third message for 2021 is less is more if we take the example of business travel some experts talk already of a 50 percent flight and route reduction in horizon 2 and 3. mentioning a return to travel experience similar to the 70s travel validation process and business criticality will be reassessed and that's for sure the same goes for the organization of events there will be less of those but of better quality and our clients agree with this analysis and tells us that they imagine a probable restart on a case-by-case and region-by-region basis for the summer 21. this particularity will lead into an increase of conditions control expectations in the preparation of the implementation of protective measures for all trips and events above all this will have a direct impact in the choice and selection of their subcontractors and here i think directly of security companies so you know they're going to look at resilience quality and of course the ethics of subcontractors they will be closely monitored in 2021. at international sos we already felt this trend last year and have con conducted a complete review of our subcontractors collaboration criteria compliance with the principles of the code of conduct presented by the international code of conduct association being a key element in our validation process the fourth message is beware of the iceberg effect kovi 19 has generated many second and third order security issues as richard mentioned it in the opening some short term some long term so the short term is manageable but will definitely require tangible and appropriate measures to be put in place i'm thinking here of organized crime who has gained strategic ground during lockdowns i'm thinking of multiplication of cyber attacks due to home office shift 600 increase just in 2020 i'm thinking of social unrest caused by precarious medical situation or by risk government decision sorry risky government decisions i'm finally also thinking of the re-emergence of major conflicts galvanized by return to the nation-state survival instinct the iceberg effect is to be found in the understanding of long-term consequences the deep and irreplaceable weakening of certain states incapable of managing civil crisis even simultaneously and that will face a strong economic recession could trigger dormant major issues as for migration it will increase irremediably due to climate change but also due to opportunistic postcode disruptions and will be used by some to destabilize others finally i'm thinking of the young curvy generations who are forever marked by these events and now have limited confidence in this system making of this pandemic a generation gap accelerator my fifth and last message to our clients and to organization is slow down to hurry this 2.0 vuca world we live in so vuca stands for volatility uncertainty complexity and ambiguity 2.0 of course for the digital dimension attached to it is incredibly complex and requires comprehensive and holistic risk management strategy lately many people like to compare the situation at the beginning of the last century during the spanish flu 1920 is comparable in some respects with coving 19 a bit major elements differ in 2020 i think of speed transportation globalization technology political fragmentation and criminogenic conditions all the latter no longer spare any industries so to the question and that richard mentioned and also alessandro in carmen regarding you know which geographic geopolitical social and cultural environment is complex today well allow me a provocative answer all of them without expection without exception without being paranoid the spectrum of physical digital and operational threats exposure is such that scenarios and all scenarios must be considered and prepared for it's no safer to operate tomorrow in paris than it is today in yemen from our point of view except in certain at war areas where common sense prepares of course faced with this complexity we recommend our client to have a holistic approach for all situations so we also advise them to implement counterintuitive method in terms of crisis management crisis management was mentioned right before so after activating first response and putting in place immediate measures for crisis containment and damage limitation we believe it is necessary to quickly slow down and start thinking on long-term corporate end state and possible opportunities versus threats that the crisis could generate and i think and we believe security companies must be able to also think along those companies to support them as by nature we tend to solve problems one by one here we encourage clients based on those long-term conclusions and implications to solve today's problem by design of the desired end state on the long term this reverse thinking allows organization clients to bring agility certainty simplicity and clarity to their business strategy and operations tackling the main pitfalls of this unpredictable vuca world 2.0 same for security company and i'm closing in conclusion on this one 2021 certainly will have its share of surprises and disappointment in store for us that i'm i'm sure of but as recommended before let's look at the long term and try to always identify opportunities that may arise from critical situation to avoid this graffiti my nephew sent me here yesterday i quite like and to avoid this wishing us a merry crisis and a happy new year all right so richard that's about it thank you for your attention and stay at your full disposal for any questions oh thank you very much indeed that was uh fascinating and and very witty um right well um gentlemen lady i i've had a look at some of the q a and some of the issues on chat um and i'm going to try and i mean we could bring them up and literally read them through but i um i'll invite people to come back to me on the chat line if they feel i haven't covered uh enough of um what they're alluding to but i think we can consolidate a couple of questions uh two or three questions into one or two and i'd like to start that's all right with um putting alexandra a question uh that came from dr shrew in china which was saying that essentially he was saying i think that you could see there was a lot of chinese interest overseas for uh private security companies to discharge a whole bunch of duties but there wasn't um so far a great deal of interaction with established non-chinese uh private security companies and so did you do you think that that's going to increase uh and perhaps how can it be encouraged to do so and there's also obviously a follow-up question to that which is the other way around which is are there opportunities for uh non-chinese security and risk institutions to work in china so it's that two-way street i think that's the summary of of a couple of questions there and it's android and if you want to say something about that yes definitely uh i mean if i would try a very humble to answer for because the fact that professor joe uh that i know him personally is one of the leading chinese expert on the field so i will give just my humble opinion is the fact that in the past there was plenty of opportunity for leading private security company international to work in china for china now there are still some window of opportunity but are more related to training training for the personnel uh that window that was quite open and very lucrative i have to say 10 years ago is shrinking by the day for the simple reason that the clients chinese state-owned enterprises first and foremost look at a chinese provider that doesn't mean that the chinese provider is not going to subcontract part of the operational especially the armed one the security in very complex environment to a local uh private security company to even a local militia or an international private security company but as i mentioned before in order to provide this kind of service i still believe that there are plenty of opportunity for international company to cooperate with the chinese private security company and in this case china's private security company are going to act as a manager as a security manager in between the state-owned enterprises that of course speak chinese with the chinese private security company that speak the same language and have the same let's say order of value and the international provider i mean say that there is an increasing number of very capable chinese private security company that are venturing outside and they are trying to get the matter fully in their hand especially now for example in maritime private security having said that the regulation the internal regulation of the chinese private security sector are still uh ongoing and is the right time for association like a coca to shape them in a way that are going to have the favorable outcome not only for the security of the chinese personnel abroad but also for the old psychologist richard when you started our panel you mentioned that i just took a note uh it was time to maintain standard in time of crisis if we are looking at chinese private security sector is time to create this standard on the international level we are at a juncture in time that is still possible to shape the narrative if we miss the train on this particular spot then there are a lot of other private security slash private military provider that offer service to the chinese company from other part of the world that are very happy to shape on what they think private military security and i hope i answered the basically the the question so if we want to look at ethical perspective stakeholder and then now it's the right time to shape this standard for for a chinese market thank you richard well alexander thank you i think that's a really interesting question about um the importance of of shaping that market and what can icoca do um and i think that's something that we will take away and that feeds quite neatly i think into another group of questions that's come in through chatting qra q a for carmen really which is essentially what can the association do in the latin american region to advance those standards that alessandro referred to especially that dynamic is used so eloquently highlighted between government and the private security uh community and even a point that occurs uh that someone mentioned which was should we encourage consolidation because if a big firm starts to take over lots of little firms they often i'm sure this is right but essentially especially international ones have to carry with them their ethical standards so there are two or three questions there i'm sorry carmen but what do you think a i suppose the association should do what do you feel about possible solutions about pulling together the private and the government sector and is consolidation a good thing thank you richard there were also questions in the chat i think there's been a confusion because actually during covi because somebody wrote in the chat if uh security services were provided everybody provided security services however the conditions of the employees in the uh private security agencies are different according to the standards of in every country and according to the strength of every norm in every country one of the most important topics for the oversight of private security uh companies are the role of other actors actors for for instance labor ministries to guarantee the minimum labor guarantees for the employees there's a lot of abuse from many companies we go back to the informality in the small companies and this is one of the topics that i believe it is very important to highlight because they're so small they're so informal it is very hard for them to accept and embrace the standards standards represent costs and what we see in these companies with informal companies is that the service is sold because the user wants to pay less and less we need to educate the user of these companies and because and to not have them seek what is less costly but what is what what has standards and what is legal and what that's what we're doing in many countries there's a great difference between countries with high levels of institutionality and high levels of rule of law and fragile states that have a very weak institution institutionality other countries like colombia where police officers can work for companies the public sector police officers can go and work with the private sector and roles start becoming confused so one of the topics is how we can adapt how we can lead growth processes and steps ahead for small companies to have some standards and gradually and that they can respond to the human rights standards and the i okay and i coca centers because if they're small and informal it's a lot harder to have them on board and a lot more expensive so we need to think at icoka how to adapt to adapt to the dimension of companies in latin america where they're not very big companies not like in large companies but in small countries with this high rate of informality we need to search other possible options so that we can gradually lead them to certification or take the necessary steps in that area one of the mechanisms we have found and that are working well in peru and guatemala are working groups that reproduce the ico capillars these working groups work with companies that are not private security companies but are companies that hire large companies that hire private security companies so if we educate the user of private security companies these large companies start demanding the criteria and align with icoka i don't know if that's a way to educate the users and present the mechanisms for the companies so that they can formalize their processes and can generate and produce standards the proper standards so i believe that this mechanism of working groups could become interesting for icoka because it allows us to work with embassy's civil society and work with the government and work with the users and this will create a culture to foster governments to request standards in terms of private security services if you will so i think that latin america we are the newcomers we are very few at least the organizations of the pillar of civil society in latin america we have become more active in the i coca context and start setting for these types of problems and issues these are different cases every time but it is necessary to have a search to lead a search on how to adapt to the reason to the regions i coca most adapt and reinforce these oversight mechanisms especially support the governments for a better to be able to increase the standards in terms of the oversight of the companies that to support the legislation because there is no harmonized legislations and to support the oversight of the civil society and the companies and therefore we generate different mechanisms and look for mechanisms for those companies that don't have the dimensions that work in other continents very interesting thank you very much carmen um i i should hasten say that someone on the chat line also made the point which i think you alluded to but in case people were confused um that at no time do police officers in colombia perform work for private security companies and i was asked to clarify this so the audience wasn't confused but i think we've got that that's very useful um slightly turning to you go to you uh with wanting to draw on your experience about the whole community really um one of the questions that's come in is about emerging trends in the eu for legislation on human rights due diligence for businesses so businesses are going to have to do that i wanted to ask you i mean i think most of us would see that as a positive thing i can see though that some feel it is another bureaucratic step but i wanted to ask you with your experience of covert and your insight into it um whether you think that's going to actually stay or whether it's going to come under pressure because if i'm a firm that i've got to be concerned about travel travel security health aspects and then in addition i've been asked to look at the human rights aspects to do due diligence sometimes will some of this fall away or do you think this is irretrievable it's just gonna happen i think richard you're completely spot-on i mean we've seen this uh this year last year more and more when we're applying for tenders uh you know they ask for us what about our subcontractors you know how what is the relationship we have with them and we knew it was coming i mean ethics and code of conduct is becoming as i said before it's not a nice to have it's a must-have i think kovid is going to emphasize this i mean what was acceptable yesterday is going to be mandatory tomorrow and and and kovi not only you know looking at travel but also duty of care duty of loyalty towards the employees the employees toward the employer is not going to be negotiable anymore so definitely they're going to look at how companies uh you know manage ethics but also look at legislation and compliance uh this is this is definitely going to to take a major turn with kavid and we believe that you know it's it's best to join now an organization such as international uh code of conduct association and work with companies like you like controllerisk and all those companies that you know not only believe and respect the code of conduct but live by the book uh and and this is you know it's not it's not a question anymore from what we hear so that's why i said in my presentation you know a year ago we saw that coming and now we the code is a full element for us in choosing our subcontractors excellent thank you well i'm conscious we've got about um 10 minutes to go but i imagine that chris will probably want to summarize at the end about how we're going to present all the information we've captured many of us have written papers or or have particular insights that i think it'd be very interesting for those who are listening today to be able to link into subsequently so i'm going to perhaps start to to to close up a bit now to give chris a little bit of time to say that at the end but i wanted to put all three of our eminent panelists a question about technology and um i know i'm i have a particular interest or i was going to raise an interest but put aside about cyber threat um but i was thinking more about kind of things like drones and surveillance both in terms of technology the challenges but also in terms of i suppose human rights violations uh data management and i thought i might just start with alexandra and just say do you think this is something that our chinese colleagues coming into the the broader community outside china are going to find easy to take on board or are they going to fin that more of a challenge and then i'd be very interested obviously in carmen's views um in latin america uh and of course gautiers as well um so perhaps we start with you alessandro conscious that we've got i think five minutes let's say that if we look at the crystal ball and we try to guess in the future a chinese private security company definitely are going to be a primary user of i technology as i mentioned before in my presentation a world leading company in drone commercial drone facial recognition ai software chinese so for a matter of fact several of top chinese private security firm are already adopting this kind of technology as a matter to cut the cost while operating outside to send less people but we don't have to forget that if you use a drone to scout your position and then you find a trap a hundred kilometer far from you you still need to have a tactical team around otherwise the drone alone is not doing much comparison is a commercial drone then we have to look very careful at abuse abuse that are going to be in terms of privacy are abused that are going to be carried in the use of big data uh without the consent of uh of the data that has been mined and we already saw that uh in the middle east for example when chinese commercial drone were refited by isis uh using for scouting operation artillery spotting and even for loitering monition as a suicide drone so this is already something that is happening has been used and abused and of course all this kind of threat from the drone and especially to the cyber threat because cyber threat are not something that are in the virtual world are something that can cause mayhem can law cause loss of economic have an economic impact but also a loss of life if there is a cyber attack on scada system on critical infrastructure and uh i give back to the front to you richard well thank you alessandra uh carmen um i'm i'm afraid we're gonna have to have literally a sentence or two from you and gertie um but how do you think uh technology or things like drones are going to affect the community the security community in the next year let's say before the next uh iclock aga buenola technology technology as we have said is not the strongest part of security companies nevertheless i feel is very important and as we said because of the incorporation that we see that is more accelerated in women that incur in private security companies and because of the coveted situation it is of cour importance to go to the technological arena in particular in the case of drones and we would see with a great expectation this change i know there's a globalization in the environment of private security that should trend to this improvement of technology and here governments should play a very important role because it's not only a matter of probably private security but also government policies and is a matter of roles and possibilities to of a supervisory responsibilities because then we go to the topic of the proper management and supervision of technology in the private life of people i would leave it at that there is a huge debate in the chat about colombia i think that they're answering to themselves the colombian people and i believe that here we are talking about observatories that is a very important mechanism that could also be implemented from the civil society and from the groups that work together between private companies and the government observatories and super surveillance of private security thank you so much carmen thank you very much gauche um your your two minutes of fame then how do you think technology will i'll take less of that richard i think i mean i will not speak of technology but what i see with clients uh and prospects but also organizations it's how how security companies gonna manage the data you know where are the you know where are the servers where who's what country are they going to be hosted these are the major questions and many many clients just refuse to sign contracts sometimes because you know security providers host their server in that country or in another country you know being in switzerland we know people love the crypto valley i love the the the policies here around but in some countries you know it's a push back for some clients so yeah data management data protection information protection is going to be key in this topic excellent well i think it's really fascinating i think what comes across to me as the moderator is the the importance the role that iscoc are going to have over the next year and coming years um many many challenges um but i know it sounds as if i'm repeating ourselves but anything anyone's raised the point that um standards need to be flexible i think everyone's saying standards unfortunately are flexible but they need to be more rigid um and looking at certainly our chinese colleagues coming into the market etc there is an awful lot of work to be done to make sure uh both their latin america elsewhere in the world that we move towards a similar position and icoca's importance i think has never been more relevant especially as we are coming out of this extraordinary pandemic so i'm going to um start bringing things to a close because i think i'd quite like chris to just quickly summarize how we might link in or how our colleagues were listening to this particular webinar might link into some of not only the conversation that we've been having but also the various papers that flow have flown into this and been created by us and have underpinned this conversation uh for the last hour or so so um i'll certainly have a farewell word if that's all right um chris but can i just pass it over to you for two minutes to tell us about what's going to happen on this particular piece of the of the webinar and how people can tie into links sure so um well i'll take the opportunity to thank you all as well first um and especially richard for stepping in and doing such a great job i have shared quite a number of links or through the chat so spend the next couple of minutes just scrolling back up alessandro has quite a bit of work that he's been able to share with us um we also at icoka have uh really started to um provide more kind of narrative and content really reaching out to experts in the field and so uh richard you yuiself um have uh appeared on one of our post uh podcasts uh the future security trends podcast um so those conversations as well as this conversation today we are looking to really draw together the themes that are emerging through these and we'll be uh putting together a paper uh which hope we hope to release soon in the new year i can't give you an exact date but but early in 2021 uh really drawing on quite a number of the themes that are coming out i do encourage everybody to also uh attend join our final plenary session on friday where we'll be really marking the kind of 10th anniversary of the international code of conduct and looking at both you know how the sector and responsible security has evolved over the last 10 years but looking forward to the next decade and what are the the opportunities and challenges ahead uh we'll be having anita ramazastri provide the kind of opening address um she's a member of the the un working group on business and human rights and so you know we've had reference to the the recent kind of uh legislation that's coming out on human rights studios and supply chains no doubt that will be a strong element of the discussions we've got eu representatives on friday's discussion as well so we hope to draw this all together uh it won't be immediate but but sometime in the new year so thank you all for your contributions and we look forward to engaging with you all um in uh in the next year and coming decade but i'll have pass over to you uh richard to sign off well um i've got very little to add to that except to thank very much indeed everyone who attended this um i hope it all helped people crystallize some of the thinking i think that's a great deal of work to be done over the coming year but i i come away with a feeling of great optimism um you know there weren't people who felt aspects of this weren't worth doing the question is how do we do it how do we do it better how do we bring more people in to support the values uh that we espouse and um i move forward with all the technological and data related challenges that there are but i think there are solutions so on that note i'd like to say thank you and um i hope you can all read the material that's coming your way goodbye