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[Music] [Music] hi I'm Melissa chocker executive director of the New Jersey foundation for aging welcome to aging insights aging insights is a production of the New Jersey foundation for aging NJ face mission is to enable new jersey older adults to live with independence and dignity in their communities aging insights is supported through sponsorships and viewer donations if you're interested in becoming a sponsor please go to our website at WWF or aging org or call us in the office at six oh nine four two one zero two zero six for more information today we're going to explore the world of banking and financial planning we'll see how cognitive decline can affect your plans also what you and your loved ones can then do to make sure that you were safe and cared for before during and after a diagnosis of Alzheimer's or dementia joining me today to talk about this is Cynthia Hutchins the director of financial gerontology for Bank of America welcome Cindy thank you so much for being with me today I really appreciate you taking the time to come and sit with us and talk about this vast topic which we're gonna really get into and dissect in a minute but I thought you could first explain a little bit of your background and your role at Bank of America because this is really interesting how the banking industry is responding to and interested in promoting the idea of safety and planning for older adults in terms of their retirement plans and all other financial things that go into in our lives yeah all aspects of longevity yeah we relate so I've been in financial services for over 30 years of you doing the math on that I was six when I started but I started out as a financial advisor and during the course of that roughly 20 year career I realized that the questions that people were asking me later in that career had changed significantly so I decided that I was going to specialize in retirement and while I did that I went back to school and I earned my masters in gerontology specifically to learn more about how longevity had had forced those questions to change and so when our leadership at the Merrill found out that I was doing this I got a call they said you know when when you're done with your school we have a role for you and that was about six years ago when that happened and the role that they created for me was director of financial gerontology which by the way we were the first firm on Wall Street to actually employ a gerontologist we did that because we recognized that the things have changed as we're living longer lives the issues and the opportunities and the challenges that people face are very different than they were in the 80s you know when I think about this I think about my grandmother because she retired when she was 55 she passed away six years ago she was 96 years old but she retired at 55 and if you had asked her how long she thought she live in retirement she just said 10 maybe 15 years right if you lived into your 70s that was a good long life but she had over 40 years in retirement and so had she known to expect that I think she would have planned very very differently we've hadded 20 years of life expectancy just since 1950 we're adding one month for every year that goes by so those kinds of statistics really have to make you think that we're planning for much longer retirements we're planning for health challenges and cost challenges that we hadn't had to plan for before and we're living with families that have multiple generations if you think the baby boomer generation was called the Sandwich Generation right I would submit to you now it's the club sandwich generation because we're not just talking about parents and grandparents and children anymore which is you know where we were kind of sandwiched in - right talking about grandparents parents children grandchildren and in many cases even great-grandchildren yeah I was gonna say I know many families where a great grandparent is sort of still responsible for care of grandchildren and then and great-grandchildren and so it's you know it is quite a spectrum with this longevity that we're facing yeah yeah and then when you put on top of that that social security is kind of iffy right the younger generation wonders if they're going to have it at all most people no longer have a pension plan that they can count on so not only are they having to deal with the physical challenges of living a longer life but those financial challenges are elevated and escalated because they don't have that secure income stream that they can count on and so much more of the responsibility for their own financial well-being in retirement falls on them as individuals I'm glad that you brought that up because you know last year AARP did a study about retirement savings and and planning and a lot of people in that I think the age group was like 25 to 64 something whatever the age was before they were expecting people to really retire they didn't question people at currently in retirement they questioned younger people and the majority of them felt unprepared for retirement and also felt like they had a lack of knowledge of what financial planning was so can you tell us a little bit when we say financial planning what does that encompass what does it mean it used to be a much more narrow term right it used to be you know that we just get our facts and figures straight we know how much money to save we know what's going to be down the road in terms of what we're going to need to spend that money on and we had that 80% rule right that you needed 80% of your income to see you through retirement right that's all changed and again I go back to it's changed because of longevity so financial planning we've had to kind of take it out of that narrow focus box and look at how we can you know create a plan or hope to create a plan that encompasses not just our rent and our or mortgage our food our clothing our transportation or heat thing or that kind of stuff the non-discretionary spending but then what are the things that may have and what are the contingencies we have to plan for give you an example the number one reason that people leave their jobs sooner than they expect is because of an illness and it might not be their own illness it might be the illness of a loved one where they have to become a caregiver right so how do we plan for that contingency 60% of the bankruptcies in this country are due to unforeseen medical bills how do we plan for that contingency so it becomes a whole lot more than just planning for what we think we know right I understand completely what you're saying that you know the traditional way was to think about what are my current expenses what that might they be when I retire and how much do I need to cover those but now that as you say there's so many contingencies there's so many what-ifs right and one of those what ifs that we want to focus on it's been primarily a piece of the work that you do for for Bank of America is this idea of cognitive decline and the issue I should say of cognitive decline right and how this impacts our ability not only to plan but then once we've planned to execute those plants so can you tell us a little bit about some of the work you've done specifically related to cognitive decline sure so first of all let's realize that there's a difference between cognitive decline and cognitive impairment right so cognitive decline is kind of normal for certain parts of our brain and so we look at that from a ona continuum we've got cognitive decline where maybe we are forgetting where we put the keys we're not so good at remembering people's names you know things like that that's kind of normal stuff right but as it moves into this idea of cognitive impairment that's a much more serious issue and cognitive impairment can then move into the realm of dementia Alzheimer's disease is one type of dementia but there are others so it can it can move into a more serious much more degenerative type of thing so we have embarked on studies that talk about not really cognitive decline from the scientific aspect of it but more from what are people worried about what are they what are they doing to prepare for the possible eventualities of not only their own cognitive decline cognitive impairment dementia but also that of a loved one and you know because there are so many issues that we have to to take into account we've done Studies on on caregiving because that is a aspect of this that is largely overlooked getting more and more into the forefront of things because we're starting to recognize that we've kind of got this global caregiving crisis on our hands as the as the world population ages and then also how do we pay for care and how do we you know and so what is the marriage between our health span our life span and our wealth span and how is that all connected and so that's really the work that we've done now specifically around cognitive decline in Alzheimer's disease and again I go back to that point that this is not normal course of Aging and that it's that it's degenerative in nature so from a financial services point of view first of all one of the my roles is to train our financial advisers on all of the aspects of longevity but in terms of financial financial and cognitive financial planning and cognitive decline it's really important that they understand and I train them around this that they understand that the first part of the brain that's impacted by cognitive decline or cognitive impairment I should say dementia is the part of the brain that's responsible for financial decision making so if they notice that one of their clients is having trouble managing their checkbook that could be a sign of a problem may be that that client has called five times in two days and asked the same question that could be a sign that there's a problem maybe they have somebody who's typically very thoughtful in their decision-making and suddenly they're becoming impulsive that's a personality change that could be a sign or symptom and they need to be first of all they need to know their client they need to understand what the issues are and then they need to have a process in place that they can make sure that that person receives the help that they need it's fascinating to me that the banking industry is responding in this way because we oftentimes in the field of aging talk about how people who live with or who see someone on a regular basis might miss the subtle signs and changes that someone might experience if they're beginning to have cognitive decline or a cognitive impairment but to train someone who sees someone in the banking setting or in a financial planning setting to notice those signs because you don't see them or talk to them every day and so if there's something changes you might be more apt to notice that we're like yous at the point of if they ask the same question multiple times or something that they seem to use to be able to grasp they're not quite easily as grasping now is something that then the bank can take a position on responding to so what would happen or so I guess there are two phases here you know what what do you train financial planners to talk to their clients about an anticipation of a problem like that or if the problem presents itself what are the financial planners supposed to do then with their client what's their course of action yeah so you said the operative word there you said subtle changes so you're absolutely right that person that's with that that with with the loved one every day may not notice where is the financial person the teller at the bank or the the financial adviser who sees them every three months or every six months or every month may notice those changes and because those early changes tend to or there's a propensity that they'll be centered around the financial so then they would be more likely to notice so we we make every effort to educate them on first what to look for and then the process that we have in place to elevate it to you know either a to get them the resources that they need to deal with the issue to protect them because we know that those with cognitive impairment are more likely to be defrauded and that is a direct correlation to our business right because it's usually money involved but there also have been cases where we have had to refer to Adult Protective Services because of of physical abuse but we do have processes in place we were probably the first firm to really start to think about this and be proactive in looking at this but FINRA has also a regulating body has also put an emphasis on this as well and they have passed two rules very recently just within the last two years one is that financial services firms make an effort to get a form signed with every new account and every existing account that is called a trusted contact form and what that form does is allows the account owner to provide the name and contact information of somebody that they trust that their financial adviser can contact in the event that they notice that there might be a problem doesn't give them the ability to discuss the accounts my next power of attorney is now permission for them to be on the account or what do you even know what's in it right or to know what kind of account it is just someone to call and say hey Jim was in here and I noticed like can you follow up or I just wanted to let somebody know right correct and that's designed just to protect the individual the second thing that they're allowed to do is that they suspect that there's an issue they are Alif customer calls in and wants to wire money they can hold up that that transfer of money I believe for 10 days just to make sure that it's on the up-and-up you know and typically they would have a reason you know it's somebody they've never heard of it's hear about these typical scams that come you know through email or the internet or even phone calls sometimes that happen like that but even if something as basic as a contractor who's taking advantage we've had these stories to where it's somebody who's not a reputable business person or he's been even a sham business I mean they made up and then are paying the worst thing they just you and that yeah exactly and they can't get it back right so and that's so so we try to be proactive and doing that that's something that we're doing as an industry mm-hmm but we also there are also things that we can do education being the main one and when we think about education it's not just the client we try to educate their families the next generation the ones that are going to be taking care of their parents and then you know and so we encourage them to to not only think about in partnership with that older generation think about how they're going to be cared for what they want what they need before there's a crisis but we also encourage those younger people no matter what age to develop a care plan for themselves in the event that there is a crisis for themselves yeah it's it's never a 25 right it's never too soon to think about these things we once had a representative from the Social Security Administration in and I'm sure you're aware but you can go on the Social Security Administration website and create a my social security account where you can monitor your own and he said when you turn 18 you should go on and you should shouldn't wait until you're close to retirement age you should be monitoring that your whole life now and I think the same goes for these sort of plans that's never too soon to think about what the what-ifs and what can happen well for yourself or for your parents and grandparents right yeah and you have countless examples of people that have had tragic accidents mm-hmm that you know all of a sudden now everybody has to scramble to figure out how do we take care of this person and and many famous people and so if it can happen to them it can happen to us and so yeah you have to you have to plan ahead even for the things that you don't think will ever happen so I do want to make sure we mentioned the title of some of these reports and and papers you've done and the one that comes to mind now because you're talking about the role of caregivers in all of this is the strategies for support to support workin caregivers right yeah and so tell me a little bit about that paper and what it really accomplishes or what it tells people about what to do yes so this is a report that I wrote early in the year it was released in February and it really targets employers and it kind of you know when you think about employee benefits well first of all have you ever been a caregiver yes yeah when I when I do client events and I do clients all over the country and there's you know I've asked hundreds of people this question raise your hand if you're a caregiver raise your hand if you've ever been a caregiver raise your hand if you think you will be a caregiver and raise your hand if you think you'll need care that by the way is a quote from Rosalyn Carter she said there's only four kinds of people in this world and those are the four if I ask those four questions a hundred percent of the hands go up so when you think about a hundred percent of those hands going up most of those people are working right so it's when we think about history we we recognized that the baby boomers when they were having when they were young parents they had emergencies in their life they needed time off because the babysitter couldn't come or they wanted to take three months off to to bond with their newborn babies or whatever it was and we created a suite of employee benefits around that because employers realized that there was something in it for them if they do that right well employers are now starting to realize that a lot of their workers are caregivers and so they're starting to create benefits around supporting working caregivers and that's what that paper is is designed to do it's designed to enlighten employers on a what are the types of benefits that they could offer be what's in it for them both quantitatively and qualitatively what will the employer get out of that in terms of things like increased productivity decreased absenteeism just an employee workforce who has a has a higher morale and so that's what that paper is designed to address so it's it's really designed to say look we have a caregiving crisis in this country it's not just a problem for the caregiver in the care recipient it's a problem for the community it's a problem for the workforce and these benefits are valuable to everybody that touches them including the employer here's why and here's what you should be looking at to institute some policies that support this yeah anything is again really great that the industry is responding in this way to not only educate your employees who are serving the community and to educate the consumer but also to educate employers and say this is what the standard should be this is what you're you know this is what your employees are gonna face in terms of their needs in caring for themselves and their families exactly yeah again just think that all of that is really terrific the other report that we've that you and I have communicated about off-camera is addressing memory in your family which I sure we've already touched on a lot of those topics and what we've discussed already but tell me a little bit more about how that came about and what's involved in that report so we did a study in 20 I want to say it's like 2015 2016 called health and retirement about the challenges around planning for your health care and the cost and all of that kind of stuff one of the questions that we asked in there was what what worries you most about you know living a longer life and the 54% of the respondents said it was Alzheimer's disease that was more people than said cancer heart disease diabetes and Stroke combined if I ask that question 20 years ago what do you think the answer would have been I would say probably one of the things you just mentioned some type of you know it was chronic guilt yeah what was significant about that also was that we asked that question of a group of people that ranged in age from 25 to 85 I don't think that had ever been done before that told us that it wasn't just older people that were worried about this the Millennials were worried about it too and so what we really started to think about was and we now we're going right back to the beginning of our conversation where there's so many generations that are touched by this and the Millennials are seeing it happen in their families with their parents and grandparents are seeing their friends families all of this so we decided to collaborate as an organization so not just Merrill it was Merrill it was our trust company it was consumer it was our private bank it was all of these lines of business and organization collaborated on this one paper to help people understand the issue of cognitive decline and how sensitive it is and and to address the issues as a family and you know things like how do you how do you have the discussion about when it's time to take the keys away how do you have the discussion among family members about who's going to care for mom or dad what does each person's role going to be when is it time to have them give you power of attorney things like that so it addresses a lot of the sensitivity and how to have those conversations because they're really difficult conversations especially the one about taking the keys away the keys and the finances are probably the two most sensitive conversations I think you know one it speaks to an individual's independence and their dignity especially with the driving but financially to I think somewhat in our society that's a very private matter and so they need to give over the you know the responsibility of overseeing your finances speaks not only to your inability to do it but also a little bit of a you know oh I don't want them to know or I don't you know especially with an older generation yeah that's yeah as you know when you think about what the Silent Generation the ones who are oldest old now these are depression survivors they they're very financially independent and and conservative and concerned and night these they live through a time where you had to be exact especially that way I think again this is just really a lot of incredible information and I think people would be surprised to know that their bank or their financial firm is responding to these things so where can people turn if they have questions or if they want more information is there a resource or a tool somewhere that they can reference or who should they call so they can they can talk to anybody in any Bank of America financial center they can talk to anybody at Merrill they can go online it we have two websites Bank of America com where they can access a lot of information a lot of the work that we've done or m/l which is Merrill Lynch com they and they can access the Merrill research as well yeah and so somewhere on that website there's a link that would find these reports and the area and more information about planning and yeah well I really thank you for spending time with us today to talk about this important topic and I do hope people go seek out the resources and learn more about what they can do to protect themselves and their families and and to plan for all the what-ifs that might happen as we all grow older so thank you for having me it's been really wonderful and thank you for watching the episode of this episode of aging insights for more information and to watch previous episodes please go to our web site at www.clickincomputer.com tact your County office on Aging you can find their numbers on our website as well or you can call the state hotline at 118 to two two three seven thirty-seven thanks for watching and be sure to tune in next time [Music] [Music] you