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welcome everyone my name is terry lawson i'm a consumer attorney at legal services of eastern missouri we our main office is in st louis missouri but we cover most of the states of eastern missouri and this video will be about the recent cdc anti-eviction order and how to use the declaration that is provided in that order for tenants and others that may have problems facing some sort of eviction activity because the order is nationwide this video could be applicable in a variety of states and certainly throughout the state of missouri you should always consult an attorney of your own for specific legal advice about your situation as state laws local laws and various regulations differ from place to place with that all said i'm going to present the slide deck now and this slide deck will be available for download from our website at www.lscm.org you'll see that right here above my shoulder and if you need to call regarding any housing emergency or you have facing an eviction or you have other legal issues and you think you may qualify for our free legal services you can always dial this number up above forty two 314-534-4200 and with that we'll begin the slide deck as i mentioned the title of this presentation is the cdc anti-eviction order a guide for tenants and we have the locations of all of the units in missouri that you could go to or you could request assistance from and i wanted to mention here the summary of this video will be available for uh download in the video itself and the slide deck and variety of materials so at the end of this session if you don't have time for a longer session you can zip to the end and see the basic summary and the links to the various guides we've created for you and that might speed up if you're short on time speed up your ability to use these resources the resource page will be also web links to a variety of places including where to download the declaration for the cdc order and where to find other assistants for things like rental assistance financial assistance and others so we do hope you visit our covent 19 help page and look at the various resources available there also you can follow our social media for updates and videos if you presented here downl slide deck these are all clickable links and we'll go right to our social media we do post updates there from time to time so do follow the cdc order that we will discuss today comes from the centers for disease control and prevention that is a department of health and human services department and the cdc itself acts as the nation's really most important health protection agency their job at the cdc is to make sure that the united states is healthy and will protect us from various threats you may have seen movies where the cdc was mentioned in a viral outbreak or even zombie movies that mentioned the cdc here we have something like covet 19 which has swept the country and has caused problems throughout the land the cdc has monitored the situation and has finally decided that as a public health measure they need to make sure they protect the public because the coven 19 threat is in fact a serious threat a historic threat to public health unlike any we've seen since probably the influenza epidemic in the early 20th century so why exactly did they issue the order the cdc we see that over 5 million cases have been diagnosed of cova 19 throughout the world it's 5.5 million cases rather than the united states but there were 174 thousand deaths as of august 24th and that number is climbing close to 200 thousand so there have been very serious efforts to limit covet 19 but we see that further action is needed so the cdc has decided this drastic steps should be taken to protect public health and that is to issue an eviction moratorium um this moratorium is a stay if you will when you hear the word moratorium that just means a pause and these are often effective public health measures we had at karazak stay recently starting in march for the cares act that was issued by congress and now we see the executive branch through the cdc issuing its own order to protect public health and to prevent certain evictions the video today describes how that order will work and what you must do to be protected by the order here is the exact language from the order itself there will be in later slides places you can download the entire order in the federal register the official copy as well as copies elsewhere subject to the limitations of what they call the applicability section in other words who it will apply to a landlord or an owner of a residential property or a person with any legal right to pursue eviction or possess reaction shall not evict any covered person from any residential property in any state or u.s territory where there are cases of covet 19. and this means that in any case where a state or local authority has not provided a higher level of public health protection then this order will take place and will control to provide public health protection in the area of evictions to prevent people from needing to move from their home now the order right now is going to run from september 4th to december 31st to 2020 and in this order the word evict has a special meaning we'll talk later about what that is evict or eviction actually doesn't just mean a judicial eviction but is also includes other steps that will be related to a judicial eviction as well now where we would find covet 19 cases is basically all the 50 states right now so the cdc order is is fairly applicable everywhere and missouri does not have any standards at least at current that would provide higher public health protections you may live in a state if not missouri that would have higher protections or a local government that may have provided higher protections if you do then this order is not applicable so under the cdc order what is eviction the eviction the excuse me the pause that's placed is on evict or eviction activities and under the order the rule is fairly clear i've broken this out on the screen so you can kind of see the clauses of the order and break out some of this legalese the literal order says it's any action by a landlord the owner or other person that to remove or cause the removal of a covered person from a residential property so remove or cause the removal any action taken to remove or cause the removal that's much broader than just a judicial eviction if there are other acts that might be taken for example forcing someone out by locking doors turning off electricity the other things that landlords may unfortunately do from time to time to force people out these would be actions used to prevent or to try to remove a covered person and those actions would be covered as well we think at legal services that it would even extend to cases of eviction that are filed or written possession type cases prior to the judge's eviction order because by filing a case and seeking possession you are seeking to remove or cause the removal of a covered person now if the person isn't covered by doing all the steps they need to do or because they don't otherwise qualify then of course this rule then this order wouldn't take place wouldn't take effect but if you are a party that has done everything you need to do then a landlord should have to pause and not take any of these actions keep in mind this is basically a rental uh and a tenancy type of protection and this is not a foreclosure type protection as well so if you're a covered person and that really means as we described at the beginning you live somewhere that this order might apply and missourians do and you have actually signed a declaration that allows the order to take control the rule indicates it says to invoke the order's protection so you have to sign a declaration and actually provide that to the proper party we'll go into that in more detail later there are five types of unprotected eviction activities or actions taken and for these things these five types would not be covered and we should discuss that first because there are certainly many ways that the order might be ineffectual um if you have engaged in a criminal activity while on the premises you've threatened the health or safety of residents you have damaged or you are posing immediate and significant risk of damage to the property that you're renting you violated public health codes health ordinances or other similar regulations or any other any other contractual obligation besides the rent obligation if those are the reasons you're being evicted or that the landlord is taking activity moving forward to try to remove you these things are exceptions to the coverage of the order and if you think of it that makes a little bit of sense if there was severe damage being done to the property or if there was a health code violation that was serious or the criminal activity within the unit itself landlords need to be able to remove those risks because those actually cause harm to the other tenants in an area so the order was careful to provide some protection for landlords to do those types of activities but not simply to remove people for for other more innocuous harmless reasons such as you couldn't afford to pay the rent now it's important to know that the cdc's order is effective only for each adult resident that is mentioned in the lease who provides a signed declaration and i'll go into this in further detail on another slide but it does say not only the leasing party if you have a written lease but as someone that is mentioned in the lease as an occupant and that's an adult party then that person also would need to file this declaration and or provide the declaration to the landlord in order to have protection and we will go into further detail on what providing means but it's listed here on the slide also it must be provided to the landlord a property owner or anyone else who has the power to evict or kick out the resident so the eviction activities that are prohibited are those same three groups of people landlords property owner anyone else that could evict and those are also the people that the tenant or adult living there could provide the order the declaration rather too those are the same groups in both both parts of the rule now keep in mind the cdc's order is not rent relief for anyone that's behind on rent it doesn't erase the rent or erase late fees or other types of similar charges those things will continue to run if you evoke the protections of the order it also unfortunately doesn't really provide any kind of free pass to violate other terms of the lease or even just the rules terms and conditions of the apartment complex if you were to break some of those rules and your lease says that you could be terminated for that then this order would not provide very good protection probably no protection in those situations it's important if you want to stay in the apartment and abide by the rules that would prevent a landlord from having a reason to evict you for other than a non-payment situation so it's very important to comply as much as possible with all the terms of the lease or other rules in the apartment complex so i mentioned this word declaration multiple times what is the cdc declaration that you would need to provide to invoke the protection of this order well here's a legal tip you may have heard the word affidavit on a tv show or in a case at some point but a lot of folks don't hear the word declaration in a legal sense very often to declare something in a legal sense here means to do it under oath but without needing a notary to sign that off that they've sworn you in or you're not at court being sworn in by a judge or a clerk but it still has the same legal effect you're basically saying under oath that i declare under penalty of perjury that these things are true so the perjury rules of the federal government apply with this order if you do complete a declaration and sign in and date that and provide it it means that that's an under oath statement so it's very important that you don't commit any perjury and the order itself mentions in its sample that it says quote this declaration is sworn testimony meaning that you could be prosecuted go to jail or pay a fine if you lie mislead or omit important information so it isn't something you would do lightly you should very carefully consider if the declaration is right for you and if it is you're fine to sign it but i would not just you know look at it quickly glance through and sign off it's really worth some analysis for everyone so do not sign this declaration if you don't understand what you're signing or if any of the terms in it the requirements of the declaration are not true for you there are going to be five big categories of requirements that i'll go over today if you're not sure about the declaration itself and how to use it we at legal services of eastern missouri and other legal services organizations in our state various non-profit organizations can provide legal advice to those that need it there are also of course private attorneys and volunteer attorneys and pro bono attorneys that may be willing to assist for little or no charge you'll have to seek out those resources on your own we certainly encourage you if you think you need assistance to seek an attorney that might be able to work through how to make out this declaration there are also certain online interview procedures that you can do but i want to point out that these online interviews walk you through the process of examining the requirements but they can't really provide legal advice so bear in mind that that is an easy way to at least get through the doc the declaration if you're not sure but you need to realize too that there's no actual legal advice being being really doled out in those ways at the end of this video we'll also have on our resources page places you can go to either get a copy of the declaration to fill out or to go through one of these online guided interviews so here are the five requirements that the cdc order of the declaration requires from the cdc order and i'll summarize these without reading them literally the first one is that you've made best efforts to obtain all available government assistance for rent or for housing so it would be rental financial assistance or finding a housing location if there's a local area housing unit available you also have to meet an income requirement and that's relatively easy to do for most regular people you also have to have been unable to pay rent or your housing payment for specific reasons such as income loss loss of work hours wages layoffs or extraordinary medical expenses then fourth you have to have made best efforts and continue to make best efforts to pay your rent or as much of your rent as you're able to pay given your specific personal circumstances and you have to be able to truthfully say that if you were evicted if you did have to leave your rental unit then you would probably or you would likely be homeless have to go to a homeless shelter or have to live somewhere in a crowded condition um with what they refer to as close quarters with perhaps family friends whomever if you were couch surfing you have to be on a couch somewhere and there's not a lot of room um these are the types of scenarios that as a public health service the cdc wants to assure that that we avoid that as much as possible they don't want doubling up tripling up having a lot of people in one bedroom and so forth so these are the three standards to say it would be likely one of those three things would occur for me if i were evicted that would cover requirement five so we'll break these down slowly and go over them a little bit more because i think it's important that everybody think about does this work for me does that is declaration something i can truthfully use and so what does the first requirement say i have used best efforts to obtain all available government assistance for rent or housing and so what that means really you know best efforts is a little hard to define it's unclear to us in our analysis so far what the government would refer to as the absolute best efforts when you say best efforts it really means pretty extensive options or you've exhausted your options so what we woul say is to at the very least make a reasonable attempt to examine all of the things you can do in the local area to obtain government assistance for rent or housing we think it's important that you take actual steps you don't just maybe glance at a form but that you actually make calls you check with organizations so that you can document that you've done what you could to try to find maybe rental assistance or a place to live temporarily that was being offered and that you've done those things in a way that that can really show you made your best effort all available assistance according to the rule the order itself says any governmental rental or housing payment benefit any at all so it's super broad the problem will be would any one person know every single program clearly no but that's why it's important to try to find everything you can see if you've exhausted all options and at each resource i would say to them is that all there is is there's something else i could try and if you've done everything you can find i think that puts you in a fairly safe position the one of the best resources we have that is works basically as a nexus a place for everything to come together a directory if you will to find resources is the united way in the st louis area they have a website united way it's 211helps.org but you can easily google united way and find your local location and there are specific covet 19 resources and there are specific um cares act funding resources that united way can link you to fairly quickly that's one of the things united way one of our partners does exceptionally well is figures out what problem a person has and what services they might be able to link them to so united way would be a great place to start for the second requirement of the order the order the declaration of the order rather you have to have met the income requirement but this is probably the easiest one for anyone to meet the literal languages is here on the screen basically if you're making under a hundred thousand a year as an individual or two hundred thousand almost as a couple or you've received a cares act check in the past a relief check or you don't have to report income at all the irs legally allows you to not report your income and certain people qualify for that all of those people would meet the income requirement so this is practically everybody in the united states other than extremely wealthy people that would have met one of these things it's very doubtful party would be unable to meet the second requirement this is almost always going to be okay so moving to the third requirement of the declaration are you unable to pay your rent or housing payment so the literal language is i am unable to pay my full rent or make a full housing payment due to a substantial loss of household income loss of compensable hours of work or wages layoffs or extraordinary out-of-pocket medical expenses a lot of words there so we're going to break it down make it simpler okay what this really means is although there are no definitions for substantial loss of income if you've suffered a loss of income a layoff anything like that that would reduce your income and make it where you can't make your rent then probably you're safe to say that's a substantial loss so i don't think it's as important that we think of is there a specific percentage amount there but it is important to realize that with your budget and your situation the loss you've taken is a substantial loss does that loss have to be directly related to coven 19 the answer is no the rule doesn't have anything in it about why that loss occurred you just have to be able to report that you have had a substantial loss and that that prevents you from making rent the extraordinary medical clause if if that were the reason you might be unable to pay rent there is a definition in the rule for that and that is 7.5 of your adjusted gross income if you had a pile of medical bills that total up to seven and a half percent of your annual income that would also count to to be considered as a difficulty to make it unable to pay rent [Music] the fourth requirement is another best efforts requirement but this one is to actually pay the rent the first one remember was best efforts to find services or assistance this one is making best efforts to pay the rent or housing payment you have it says quote i am using best efforts to make timely partial payments that are as close to the full payment as the individual circumstances may permit taking into account other non-discretionary expenses so again a really long phrasing what does it mean in simple terms what it means is you need to pay what you can pay in rent this depends on your own ability to pay your circumstances are different from others but what we really want to show is if you are paying your other bills that you must pay those are the non-discretionary expenses i still have to pay these other things and you're unable to make a full rent payment the rule is saying you must make as much as you can of that payment to the landlord in order to be covered by this rule you have to make sure that you budget carefully and determine what would be available to you to make a payment and then move forward in making every effort to pay the landlord timely notice the rule did say a timely payment not late payments but try to pay on time even if it's short so you should always when you pay you should always keep proof of your payments i would say never do cash unless you absolutely have to do it and even then make sure that you have some kind of receipt it is much better to pay with a check a cashier check a money order or some other way that will leave a paper trail so that you have a check stub or some portion when the landlord receives the cash the money also if the landlord refuses payments you should record that as well you should mark down that this was offered on a certain day this particular amount check number whatever money order whatever and that that was refused i think that's important because if the landlord ever challenges you did not make best efforts you have to show that you did at least try to pay landlords will sometimes refuse payments in order to not waive any lat any fees or rent from the past there are legal rules that that get a little tricky regarding if they accept the payment later so if they want someone to leave they'll refuse rent in order to try to speed that up and that's where this gets a little tricky for most consumers what you want to do though is if you do have rent refused it might be a great idea to set that aside for later because there might be a later time when you could pay that rent for example if you are sued in missouri you can do what's called stay and pay in a rent and possession action and what that would mean is if you come up with all the rent owed at the time of or before the trial you can actually avoid uh having to pay or having to go to trial on that action you could you could actually end up staying in the apartment in the rental what we want to make sure that you know is if you're getting refused from rent you've got to probably plan to set that money aside if you can to protect yourself later because remember the order never stops rent from accruing that it continues to add up whether or not you can get a payment to the landlord finally the fifth requirement of the declaration is that you have no other housing options the literal rule or the declaration says if evicted i would likely become homeless need to move into a homeless shelter or need to move into a new residence shared by other people who live in close quarters because i would have no other available housing option now let's break that down further no other available housing option well what does that mean according to the order it means anything that's available and unoccupied residential property remember the order is going to cover residential leasing not businesses so it has to be a residential property available but also what about this other space for occupancy in seasonal or temporary housing so if there's temporary housing available or seasonal housing like summer housing for example or winter housing if if there are other places that have that these temporary locations are also potential available property if those are there and it would not violate a federal state or local occupancy standard and it wouldn't increase your housing cost those are your available housing options so if there are rentals all around and there are spaces open one of the questions that's going to be difficult for folks is to figure out how have i proven that i've i don't have available housing options we would say if you're able to move if you're able to find another place at the same price or less and something's available to you you probably should try to take that instead of use this order to stay in your current location the idea of the order is to keep you from having to be homeless or in a shelter or in a crowded condition but if you're able to successfully move then then probably you do that it's if you're unable you've checked you've applied you've been refused you can't find places that's where this order really kicks in so if you're in that position this provides you with some protection again it would be important for you to document that you've tried to find locations and that you were unable to find an available housing option as i mentioned in the prior slide the qualification portion here is probably the most important aspect so long that you have sought housing and can't find any available you would probably meet the requirement but don't be in a position where you've never looked or you've only called one place because that would end up making it look as if you did not exhaust all options okay so we've talked a lot about requirements of the declaration for the cdc order requirements for this item that you're going to sign under penalty of perjury so where would you find a copy of this declaration we at legal services have prepared a fillable pdf form what that means is a form you could put up on your computer screen and type it in if you could go to a local library or somewhere else if you don't have computer access you could actually type that in and save that document and it would be ready for you to deliver there are also other locations throughout the internet that you might find this declaration the official version from the cdc their example attachment is available at the link i've provided in this slide deck it's part of the federal register which is a place where orders and regulations get published by the federal government and there's a sample declaration there as well now our declaration is a little different from the official sample if you look carefully at the order one thing you need to know is that they don't have to be identical to what the cdc put out a declaration can be slightly variable it basically says it must be substantially similar so you know it doesn't have to be in the exact same font it doesn't have to be exact same size if you add a little bit at the bottom like we did we're confident that that would be substantially similar what we added on ours just so you know is we added a spot to print your name and a spot to list the address where you rent and the reason we did that is the official document does not have anything other than a signature line and a date for the declarant to fill out so if you just do a signature that's hard to read and you mail that in a landlord and 100 unit property would say i don't know who this is and i don't know what this looks like or what this is so i can't really apply it to anyone so what we've done is made sure and i would suggest if you use a different form you do make sure that the landlord knows who it's from you could easily print your name by your signature and you could print the address of the unit where you live particularly if you're not on a lease as the main person leasing but you're another adult you would really want to make sure they know i live in this location in this unit and this is my printed name and this is my declaration that's really really important to do that so watch on these other resources online that if you use a declaration that doesn't have those you might want to make sure that you put it on there i mentioned before online interview sites where you can walk through the process of filling out a declaration these can guide you through the form but they can't give legal advice now you need to decide the answers when you do this based on the questions they give you but like any computer program what old computer programmers used to say is geigo gigo garbage in garbage out and what that meant is when they wrote a program and they put in wrong data or wrong sections in the program they'd get gobbly back the program wouldn't work right likewise be careful of garbage and garbage out when you do an online interview if you don't answer truthfully or you don't understand the process and so you can't really properly fill things out it's likely that what you get as an end product isn't going to be what you expected or what you should have gotten people work very hard on these programs to make sure that they are easy to understand but they're never perfect so be careful as you fill one out that you you're confident just like you'd know everything that the forum says and you understand it you also understand the process as you're walking through a guided interview be careful of of doing something that's going to make it not run the way it's expected to run [Music] here are some of the locations you can find an online interview if you'd rather do that instead of a printed declaration in a local location law health interactive has one based out of michigan i believe and we've put the link there mass access is the suffolk law litigation lab and that was also one we felt was a fairly well-designed guided interview and the kentucky equal justice center is another that is a fairly well designed guided interview these are just three examples of probably many throughout the country and because this is a federal law most of the time individual state issues aren't going to be as important in this area but be wary if you use one from out of state that it doesn't wander into topics related to that state's law as opposed to your your state where you live now we must make sure that when you complete a declaration that you provide this to the landlord and how do you go about doing that you provide the declaration in order to invoke the cdc's order and you have to provide an executed copy so it doesn't need to be the original it needs to be an executed assigned copy of the form and you provide it to one of those three people that i mentioned before people or businesses the landlord the owner of the property and that may be the landlord right or maybe it isn't or another person who would have the power to kick you out so sometimes there are management companies other times we might see that one big business owns a property the landlord is a different party or business and then they have an attorney that handles all of their eviction work so it may be that you have three different parties you can provide this too it doesn't say you you have to provide it to more than one of those but if you know there are three different people involved in your particular rental you could provide it to all of them that's okay better to be safe than sorry because these are just copies after all so it's okay to send one to the one to the owner and one to the management company look on your lease for who the landlord is the name of the landlord and there's usually in any lease a notice provision that allows you to know where you would send something in writing to the landlord if all else fails usually sending it to where you make a payment would be sufficient as well or providing the the copy there remember again anybody that's on the lease written in the lease any adult should provide a declaration if they wish to be covered the declarations must be signed and dated as i mentioned the only lines for completion were a signature and date in the official form we added printer name printer address on it okay also this provision of who you p ovide it to is made very clear in the order landlord property owner or some other person that can kick you out okay and provide isn't really described in the order at all what does provide mean so we take it for its literal regular meaning you provide it in any way in person by email by fax however you choose but but but this is important but make sure that you have proof of delivery of that declaration to the proper person or company one of them that fits those three conditions good ways you could have proof would be a hand delivery and then you would be able to testify you did it or you have an email that you send with it as an attachment when an email goes it's pretty well normal that if it's rejected it gets kicked back and you know about it certified mail would also work sometimes people refuse certified mail though so that's not always ideal regular mail would certainly get it there but it would be hard to prove when they received it but it wouldn't be wrong it just would be hard to prove it a courier is a good example also a fedex ups these sorts of things rarely will people want to refuse fedex or ups and it's not too many dollars to send something that way so many of these different ways could work the big key is could if they try to claim the landlord claims we never got a declaration what would you do to prove that that you did actually provide that declaration okay so we're out now at the end of the overall um the overall presentation i'm going to do a quick one-page summary here the the highlights if you will this order remember is to protect public health it's not a a rent abatement it's not a landlord versus tenant it's literally to help everyone keep in mind that the goal is to prevent the spread of covet 19 because of crowded conditions and homelessness and if any landlord provides any problem with that or has a problem with that then you can certainly address that this isn't really a friction situation but but it's really about public health remember though it doesn't stop rent charges rent charges late fees etc continue to accrue that's one of the reasons that you need to be sure that you pay what you can when you can because that pile of rent owed will grow unless it is paid so if you do have to stay over keep in mind that there is a running rent clock there if you do not provide the declaration there will be no protection the only way you invoke the order is to provide the declaration to one of the three parties mentioned landlord owner someone else that could kick you out make very clear that that is done before you rely on this to prevent eviction remember that this covers more than literal judicial eviction but all actions any actions to remove the party right unless it's one of the exceptions these eviction actions could be things like stapling on the door or taping on the door you need to be out of here we're going to remove you we're shutting off your electric so you'll leave many different things would be improper under this order once that declaration is given not just the filing of a lawsuit not just the eviction writ at the end of the lawsuit make sure you remember this is under oath this is under penalty of perjury basically it's as if you were in court swearing under oath to a judge you say i declare under penalty of perjury and that is punishable by fines potentially imprisonment it's it's certainly not something you want to toy with make sure that you can complete the declaration truthfully and you're comfortable with what it says and understand it remember that all adults should provide a declaration if they want protection it's not going to be just the single party that leases but if there's another party there with you and they're legally there under the lease make sure that both parties provide the declaration or however many adults you have in the unit and get legal help if you need it at legal services of eastern missouri we're happy to have your spend time with you if we're available you can call in and find someone here or one of our volunteer lawyers that work with us we have pro bono attorneys that graciously volunteer time that we may be able to link you with and there are many other places throughout the metro area and beyond that could provide you with legal assistance or advice about the declaration the good news is it wouldn't take a particularly long amount of time to work through the declaration with someone and it's relatively a simple document as long as you've already thought a little bit about these categories so it would not be difficult generally speaking to do this rather quickly and i say that because even if it's a private attorney that you are worried oh i might get charged if i ask them you never know what someone might provide for a low charge or no charge in this type of situation and of course if we can take you as a client our assistance is pretty much always free of charge to the client i have two pages of resources here at the end i won't read these web links of course but these are all clickable links that if you go to our website and pull this document you'll be able to click any of these links that you would want um if you open this document on our website i think these will all be clickable on the page so i just want to lay out kind of what i've given you again there's our housing section of our covet help page that has quite a few of these materials on it and what the most important is our cdc declaration form that is that fillable pdf i mentioned where you could download it type on it or you know fill in the blanks on it and then return it there are also the online interview locations provided here that i mentioned earlier and additional services such as the homeless homelessness prevention form there's a resource flyer that we have available on our website that shows all kinds of public assistance and non-profit uh partners that we have that might provide things like utility assistance rental assistance helping you link up with other housing locations etc and then there was the united way that i mentioned as well and they're linking so we have this link for you also that's all the resources that we've got covered in the end of the presentation thank you for spending time with us today if you go to our coven 19 resources at this website again you should be able to receive not only a copy of this slide deck but also all the other materials that i just mentioned to you thank you for spending time and i hope this has been helpful