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this is for the fighters for change oppression would win if they were to give up our collective wellness depends on their tireless determination and legalization slow burn wouldn't be smoldering without them they break down stigmas build up equity and just say yes yes to good troublemaking yes to being empowered yes to fair access now more than ever weed map says yes and stands with the fighters for change i'm your moderator shirali patel and i'll be hosting a conversation around understanding new cannabis laws and regulations today i have with me two well-regarded fellow legal professionals chris alexander and christina piccola who are at the forefront of cannabis policy and legalization in the emerging states of new york and new jersey i'm going to ask both panelists to just give a quick intro of themselves and you know if there is a mission for your company or position and let's start with ladies first so christina thank you and thanks for having me i'm excited to be here uh my name is christina buccola and i am an attorney in the cannabis space my background is actually in transactional law and at that i did fund formation and work for a lot of private equity clients that's how i started my career i've also been in international tech i started looking at cannabis as a way to treat one of my parents advancing parkinson's and that led me on a journey that took me to high times where i was the general counsel then to be a partner in a grow in a legal state and relaunch my practice a couple of years ago as just completely cannabis focused um with respect to providing clients with the best in transactional work um based on my now 20 years experience it's really exciting to be here thanks for having me absolutely we're honored chris thanks for being thanks for having me as well my name is chris alexander i currently run government relations and policy for an organization called village it's a multi-state cannabis company founded by al harrington i started work on this issue as many people you know outraged by the discriminatory enforcement particularly in the streets of new york city stop and frisk and so you know many years ago started uh working to end the marijuana arrest crusade in new york we eventually realized at the time working for um drug policy alliance eventually realizing the uh the need uh to really the only really way to fix this problem was to remove prohibition altogether and so you know began to build um the start smart new york campaign to end marijuana prohibition in new york um i was the architect of the campaign and then you know i've been working on on canvas reform ever since i left the uh the advocacy world and went into government as a council to new york state senate um where i led negotiations on the issue and now i'm working for one of the largest black multi-state cannabis companies and so trying to really put equity at the forefront of all that we're doing um as an advocate as a government official and lawmaker um and now as somebody working in this space so happy to be here and share what i've learned that's amazing i mean both of you guys both mentioned social equity and so maybe that can just be the starting point of this conversation you know what's can we vote both of you guys can you speak to the state of social equity maybe in new york and in general and so obviously things have been heating up in new york with legalization bills pending and the conversation has been heating up and so do the bills you know speak to social ju social equity and social justice and if not you know why where where is the disconnect do you want to start or should i christina you can start no um and and i've worked with with with chris and i'm also a member of the start smart committee which of which he was the architect and that's how we initially met um so i come to this initially from an economic perspective but also an economic justice perspective and so when i talk about social equity when we talk about equity that's particip that to me means participation in the industry either direct participation in the industry through licensing or working um at a a licensee in the cannabis industry or indirectly by you know driving some kind of economic benefit from the taxation to be put back into those communities that sometimes have never been invested in or sometimes have not been best invested in them for lack of a better word we we call that community reinvestment and so um i think that and and correct me if i'm wrong uh chris in the last couple of years we've seen the governor's bill because there are two bills there's one bill called the marijuana regulation and taxation act that was introduced into the legislature as early as 2013 and it has been introduced every year uh since then and then for the last three years as part of his budget uh governor cuomo has proposed something called the cannabis regulation and taxation act and in those last three years we've actually seen him move and be a little bit more inclusive about the term social equity and empowerment but when you really kind of dig into the words it's questionable how much weight they have right and they certainly don't measure up against the bill the mrta which again has been introduced at the legislature so it is being discussed um i don't know that any one state has done social equity perfectly or even well enough i mean i think that there are some shining examples particularly the delivery license out of massachusetts we we can discuss in a little bit but um it's being discussed it is not well developed for or for me to feel like wow uh this is in step with what other states have done yeah and you brought up the point about other states which we'll get to right after chris um you know gets to share his outlook yeah no absolutely i think christina has it you know good on the you know on the head in the sense of you know no state has really gotten this this right and i think you know we've talked about this drawing in the past that um i think part of it is the understanding of or really the other people's definition of the of the concept of the framing of the phrase um social equity you know initially we saw states like colorado when they legalized create things like felony bars to licensing right and so as you know we started to develop the concept of social equity we you know pretty clearly said that that does not make sense as a thing that should be incorporated in how we legalize moving forward um but what we started to learn and going and i think each state you know has gotten i guess closer well most states have gotten closer than the last um but you start to realize social equity itself is not a program um it's it's a framework it's it's it's market design it's you know it's got to be rooted in how you set up uh your state's market and i think that that's part of the reason why we continue to see states fail is that they look at it as a box that needs to be checked you know this isn't mwbe licensing right this isn't guaranteeing um or mdb contract and guaranteeing that some set aside some little bit uh goes to people of color this is about repairing harms that have been done um so we don't just want to make sure that people get licensed we make sure they can get them they can keep them those businesses can be successful um they can be competitive um and that we're able to really undo you know generations of damage that's been done by selective enforcement and so i just you know i always like to say because i think that it's really important for people to think of it as bigger than you know checking a box it's about making sure there's access to licensing but also the training um and compliance assistance that needs to be provided the you know the the support um for businesses the i mean all of it needs to be incorporated in order for it to be a successful program so that's all yeah absolutely you know social equity is more than just the term right it's actual ownership it's reinvestment in the communities that were devastated by the failed war on drugs and so much more and so you know christina you mentioned so far really no state has done it perfectly and they haven't become a model for it and so maybe can you guys just go over you know what have other states done wrong and is there any state that's kind of got it right or at least trying to be on the right path i think this goes back to market architecture a little bit that that chris was talking about because it's it's not that you know to to rip off an old baseball movie it's not that you know you build it and they will come right there's so much more to just build to building that you can't just offer up say hey these licenses are going to be available for this number of people it's the involvement that goes into that it's not just the licensing process it's the incubation services some of these individuals don't know what it takes to run a company um but have you know the natural wherewithal but they need training and people and then it might look like services we talk about this sometimes it might look like grants just to pay bills because it is incredibly expensive to operate in the cannabis industry right and so when you're talking about bringing individuals who um you know might not have had um a credit history um how do you incorporate people within a capital intensive industry where they don't have access to digi to traditional banking methods right that's very very difficult so the state needs to or the program needs to step in into the shoes and say okay we need to make resources available because again this is um a capital intensive industry but then we also look at licenses that might not be as capital intensive right or um that might honor uh certain types of market architecture that we already have in our legacy market like a delivery license so i think it's you know i heard of this one program out of oakland just the other day where all they do is they help um individuals who are wanting to start cannabis uh companies help them build a credit history so it really does it it's it's across the board right we have to put as many small programs into place to enable people so i think things are being done at the local level the state level is hard right it's again not one one size fits all and particularly here in new york i think it's going to be very difficult we have one of the most um expensive real estate markets in the five boroughs and so it is i i am a big fan of massachusetts delivery license i do not make any qualms about it i think it is a pretty comprehensive license um and as now that it's a licensure is open for it i'm excited to see where that goes because that is a way for entrepreneurs to enter the market um be they legacy participant or economic empowerment participants or social equity participants um so i'm a big fan of that one but also the local programs that that provide those credit services and those incubation services and those business services yeah yeah i just wanted to add something there i thought that came out as you were you know going through is you know part many of our of our audience today might not understand why uh this is such a central part of this movement why such a central part of the campaigns to legalize and it's because i mean it ends up being central to uh the program development because we century in the campaign we censor the campaign because without the acknowledgement of the harm that's been done um it's it's it's gross to think that you know we are allowing you know some of these companies to go out and and make you know this ridiculous amount of money for a plant that folks have been you know murdered for thrown up against the wall pot you know kids in in my city you know thrown up against walls had their pockets stripped by law enforcement salad with it with a criminal record for the rest of their lives and this was all known uh to to our governments to our police departments and so it's it's it's it's it's part of it because of the fact that you know without this type of acknowledgement you know that this would be really the greatest representation in my mind of white privilege that they can decide today that they want to call a plant a different thing and then sell it um that that will be okay and so you know that just wanted to frame that for folks who are like well why do we need to set up why do we need to give so much support to these people trying to have businesses no this is this was uh the enforcement around this plan has been um as many folks will know has been pretty egregious and so i just want to say that but in addition to in terms of states doing well um you know i think that you know we we started to get closer and closer i mean illinois was you know a lot of folks really optimistic about illinois um because they were very intentional about prioritizing social equity applicants in the legislation it was it was a really robust piece of legislation the challenge then came with implementation and over the last couple months we've seen uh several lawsuits and stalls to the licensing process due to you know kind of a mismanagement of the rollout of the awarding of these licenses and so you know what what i would say is that you know even as states continue to get closer you still find places where um we can continue to do better and in that case in illinois um it was a more transparent process um and so i just wanted to flag that as somebody as a state that was closer than most and trying to do this thing right yeah and to your point about we can do better i think part of the reason why it's so difficult you know legalizing and decriminalizing is because ultimately we're dismantling a biased criminal justice system that's you know been in place for decades and so i think that's why it's so hard and that's why social equity really is at the heart and center of this issue because we need to be able to empower and educate those that were harmed so that they can have true ownership because that's that's restorative justice that's real social equity and so i think we're all on the same page um and i want to take a step back and i want to focus on new york because both of you have been heavily involved in that state and so you know i just want to understand you how did the process begin and what it's currently what are the bills that are currently pending because christina you mentioned there's two separate bills and so you know i just want you guys to kind of go over that i i could jump it yeah so uh as christina said the uh the legislature has their own bill um each year as part of the governor's budget process uh he's authorized to introduce legislation that has fiscal impacts called article 7 of the constitution that authorized him to do so and so the bills that he puts up we call him article 7 bills he introduced his budget bill in january the senate and the assembly of the new york state legislature are currently reviewing that bill um they're going to introduce what they call a one house resolution where they you know identify which provisions in the budget they support or what they reject and what they you know hope to to negotiate and from that point really um there begins pretty intensive constant all day meetings where the legislature the legislative staff and the executive staff um meet to discuss every aspect of these bills and so we call it the table um i previously sat um as the lead for the senate negotiating this bill the governor's bill on the last two years and so um in each of those negotiations you know there are big issues identified that are kicked up to higher you know to hire members of the staff um even some you know issues that the governor and the temporary president of the senate need to do and the speaker of the assembly needs to discuss themselves um but as much as work through on the staff level as possible and so you know for for folks who you know kind of don't see the sausage making it's a bit of soft speak i'm going through right now but um it really will spell out how new york moves forward what is done at the table what is agreed to by staff um before it goes forward um for uh leadership and then for the entire legislature to vote on and so there's negotiation going on right now this bill will likely uh be orked out to be included in this budget um and you know we just got to make sure that folks stay at the table to stay engaged and they continue to move forward okay christina do you want to comment on that no how do you follow that up um i guess so what about you know potential applicants you know if obviously everybody wants to gear up and get ready for these licenses you know when do what's the timeline look like you know when do you guys expect to even see a real licensing round and how can people start to get ready now you know especially those that are already operating in the legacy market um i think that let's say it does something does pass in in uh this year so i think you're probably looking at regulations of course need to be ruled out before there is any kind of licensing programs i think even in a super accelerated time frame you're not going to see licenses until very what year is it i mean it's 2021 my goodness until very late 2022 or very early 2023. what do you think chris i mean i think they can accelerate it i mean i think i because i know how motivated the governor is to get this done or as motivated as he's expressed that he is to get it done um you know when the governor wants to make something happen it'll happen um i do think that there's a possibility that we see a commission uh the oversight body that we've identified in this bill would be uh um it's like a five-person board uh i do see that we can see that board seated uh pretty quickly um there are then timelines in the mrta i don't know if they're in the crta um about how quickly that board needs to create regulations and so what christina's mentioned was you know after the board is seated regulation has to be created before any of this happens and i do think that there is a possibility that we see licenses or applications open up rather early 2022 before we come back to this budget time but that's that's optimistic so i think early 2022 if you're interested in applying have your stuff together make sure you built out your team um and be ready for for something to roll out at that point in time but i didn't add the last part um the budget that is being negotiated currently or soon um needs to be greeted by april 1st so we'll know april 1st whether or not new york is going to have uh adult use cannabis programs starting um in the near future do you think that the uh stand-alone bill wouldn't be able to pass even though there is a super majority i mean the support's there the assembly could pass the bill the senate could pass the bill it's but it's you know with these things it's not necessarily always the amount of support in the legislature it's what is the like what is the end plan right the governor doesn't want to veto this bill and so you know it's just a reminder that well let me take a step back there are oftentimes several issues in play at the same time right and so we as advocates may link to this one thing and say this can happen in this way and this is the path but the legislature may have other priorities you know they're focused on providing you know renters assistance at this time they're focused on covert relief they're focused on all these other things that they don't want to you know create a fight about you know cannabis when they're trying to make sure people can stay in their homes you know and it may be the case that you know this slips to a lower priority over other um under other things or you know it may be the one thing that's left and it may be the thing that can be jostled against jostled over but i mean i do think that the votes are there they could pass the bill tomorrow if they wanted to i do think that actually would be a good um step to take for negotiation purposes um but you know who's to say the governor may be putting the pressure on the leadership and saying you know let's just get it done in the budget we'll get it done there's no need to fight about it you know and that may be enough for them to say okay we'll wait and then we'll get all these other things that we want because remember that everybody has their own priorities very interesting and like you said everybody indeed does have their own priorities because we're kind of dealing with a lot of that in new jersey and so i just wanted to switch to the neighboring state because chris i know you had some prior involvement in the state when you're with the drug policy alliance and just for our viewers new jersey citizens voted to amend the constitution and legalize cannabis back on november 3rd yet as of today we don't have enabling legislation and so we're in this gray area arrests are still continuing at the same rate as they were in january of 2020 which is terrible but you know can you give us some insights in what the issues are and just speak to that yeah i mean you know you know better we'll see i know you that you're the host so you can't say it but no we've seen what we see and i just you know from outside looking in what we've seen in jersey is really kind of a mismanagement of process you know the cart getting in front of the horse um there were not full agreements on all pieces of uh the adult use bill that passed the legislature at the end of last year um the governor you know didn't even agree with the solutions that the legislature put forward to fix that problem and so we've seen a series of delays and then just really a lack of communication within the legislature about how to move forward uh the discrepancy um as i understand it was around penalties for youth possession and there were some other technical issues and so the legislatures tried to address it the governor that they had problems internally with the solution they put forward and then now have now advanced another solution and i think that the hold is for uh the governor to to be okay with that final plan so i mean i think that you know jersey's process is one where um or the the holding up of jersey process is credited to much more to a lack of communication um and really kind of a lack of engagement with other folks that know you know i know that there have been certain groups who are we've been active like the aclu in new jersey you've been leading the conversation but i do think that the legislature has and the sponsors have moved forward um kind of without the um input of a broader uh uh array of voices and i think that's what's led to some of the holdup yeah absolutely that's been a lot of the issues right not having the right people at the table because you know the aclu can't do it alone exactly much like you mentioned they have other issues that are pressing as well and so you know it's really difficult but hopefully by the time we're talking next time you know it'll be legal in another week or two but who knows because new jersey is notorious for you know delays and things like that christina did you want to add anything to that before we switch over i mean you're the person i called from new jersey yeah she's the person are we right tell us if we're right are we right we don't yeah you're right and um you know i don't want to focus that much on new jersey because like you went over it you know well enough and it's we're in a hold up right now you know we voted to legalize we have pending legislation that hasn't um been seen by those that need to be shaping it and so our regulations are yet to be formed when this incoming crc or cannabis regulator commission comes into play but for now we're just in this waiting area and which which says a lot because right now people's voices can be heard right so you can try to influence legislation because it's still pending um there's so much going on at the state level but really we've seen some interest now with this new administration federally and so before we get to like some of the specific bills headlines were that you know senator schumer wyden booker announced some plan to create federal reform what that looks like we don't know but just give me your opinion on federal legalization and you know what do you think it's going to look like and what's the timeline for that and so we can start with christina for this one so uh the two things that i'm the two bills i'm looking at um are the more act and the safe act and so because there's been a change at the committee level um the senate committee levels and we which these two bills have stalled out um wyden who is the head of the um drawing blank who's ahead of the senate um finance committee yes he's part of the senate finance committee thanks is now the the chairperson of uh that committee and the chuck schumer and uh mitch mcconnell recently released rules around how they're going to take things out of committee when they're in a tie because of course um committees are are made up of 50 50 given that um that is how the senate is split and i could see some version of the moore act because that's the closest piece of federal legalization that seems to echo and mirror these concerns around or the just concerns um around removing the criminal um the criminal yolk around individuals next because they have cannabis convictions and pursuing this from a justice oriented space um so we have that piece of legislation and then in the banking committee um we have the safe act that of course doesn't really have any equity or justice focused elements to it but sherrod brown who now is the head of the chairperson of that committee has expressed an interest um in in having that bill up for discussion provided that there are equity interests um and and expungement concerns embedded therein so what we're seeing is there's kind of um that that that headline here is that this is not an economic concern i mean there are economic elements to it and it would the more act would certainly um deschedule cannabis effectively leaving it up to the states to determine whether or not the individual state wanted to legalize it but i think that there is a lot of momentum and i'm happy to see that that momentum is um really oriented towards making communities whole and undoing some of the damage done by the war on drugs no and and the more act passed the house in december right so now it's going it hasn't yet been introduced by the senate correct what happened was it it it stalled out in in the uh committee right and it was chuck grassley who was the head of that's of the senate banking committee because that that bill got kicked to uh banking sorry to finance um and it was just it just stalled out there right because there was no you need to have a majority to bring it to house um floor vote although now again these new rules if it's split or if it's going to die on a cake on the case of a committee being split um either schumer or mcconnell can bring it to the floor of the senate so that should be interesting um i don't know if the support is there i think that there would need to be 60 senators to pass either bill and i'm not sure that support is there though the version of the moore act that was approved by the house had some concerning adjustments to it namely that there were individuals who were going to be excluded on account of you know they are being violent felons and again this is one of those cases where of course we want to release everyone who's a non-violent felon um but what does it mean to be a violent villain um violence as as we think of it in our common parliaments is crimes against the individual but a lot of times um under statute what is under law what is a violent crime has nothing to do against the person so there are a whole bunch of people who be excluded from this who really haven't committed any kind of um crime that we would think of against the individual yeah and before we switch to chris because you mentioned both the more act and the safe banking act can you quickly just for the viewers give like high level bullet points of you know what those bills actually are sure um the more act would be a bill that deschedules cannabis from all all of the five schedules right so under the current um controlled substances act each uh each substance is assigned a schedule one through five depending on its likelihood of abuse and whether or not there are any medicinal benefits as most people know at by this point um cannabis is on schedule one uh under this under the more act it would be descheduled and treated more like tobacco um and and alcohol and um what that means is it's up to the individual states but what would happen is there would be a um a nationwide um tax revenue allocation that is put into a trust fund to go back into those ca among other things to go back into those communities that have been most impacted by the war on drugs there are also significant provisions around expungement and significant provisions around studying how licenses are allocated again individual states are not mandated to adopt any kind of legalization program but they would be permitted to do so and under the safe banking act um again there's no very very different and this has to deal with banks and their protection um and whether or not they can service cannabis clients uh who are legal at the state level but of course federally illegal whether they can service those clients without um facing uh risks to their business high level and obviously for folks listening if the with the past message of the month you wouldn't need safe banking so but yeah and if you pass i mean a lot of those concerns drop out right if we had the we yes [Laughter] it's a work around safe banking is a workaround right it's a very bad patch yeah no i would just add i mean i think you know obviously great explanations i would just on just like the timing and then i think the political uh will um it has not been identified as a as a priority of the the new administration uh in the white house um but uh senator schumer has um who carried his own um was the marijuana justice uh the marijuana justice act which he carried um the conversation um this was happening recently was that he was going to be combining uh some provisions of his bill working to create an omnibus legalization bill um as the previous sponsor of the march was uh senator kamala harris now our our vice president and so i think i think there's some excitement obviously the house passed the more act um you know they had the support there on the senate level i don't i don't see the support um uh to get those votes but i do know that with leadership um interested and invested and obviously already carrying a bill um we can see we can know that this will be a conversation moving forward um if i had to bet i'd say hey you know three four years but i mean that's that's that's uh my conservative bet um what i do what i did want to just say just about federal legalization was just that you know for for this limited license uh state-by-state strategy that we've been taking um is one that you know has really created a kind of a patchwork of rules um it's been really challenging for folks who are on the business side but also um for consumers for patients it's also created quite a bit of confusion and so i mean i do think that for the fall of federal legalization will obviously make sure that people who are patients or we could be patients um are getting access to medicine that could help them which i think is really important um on the business side of things um it's you know it's hard to tell what the impact is going to be for some people it may be incredibly negative for uh for others it may be an opportunity at expansion once they figure out how interstate commerce will work um but you know i think that you know either way we've got to move forward beyond prohibition um the federal government needs to create some guidelines for states who have programs uh like our medical program in new york that's incredibly limiting and it's not serving uh the patients of the state of new york effectively um and you know provide some baseline as to understanding of what equity needs to look like across the board so i see the pros and cons of federal legalization yeah i agree with you guys i think it's going to take some time even though everybody's really excited and talking about it it's not a priority of the administration and rightfully so given the pandemic and other concerns but can chris maybe can you just me tion the difference between what federal legalization would look like in in comparison to d criminal uh sorry d scheduling it versus rescheduling cannabis from the controlled substances act yeah so you talk to us propose listen if you talk to us we are going to say deschedule do not reschedule rescheduling for example would be shifting uh canvas from schedule one to schedule two or schedule three which means that it would be you know basically treat like a pharmaceutical uh product which you know folks understand what that could mean it may increase access generally i guess because the pharmaceutical companies are so big it can produce but it definitely would be an incredible hamper to any attempt at creating an inclusive and equitable industry so um you know we want descheduling not rescheduling yeah you want to add to that yeah and to that end i mean it wouldn't protect those individuals who are finding relief under their state medical programs it wouldn't protect state and legal businesses that are actually paying not only state taxes but federal taxes despite being federally illegal and you know the cannabis industry employs a ton of people and these individuals would not be protected in any regard maybe it would loosen up some access to research possibly um and depending on where um where cannabis were to be rescheduled potentially there might be some tax benefit but to put it on any other schedule is to open up an entirely different and unnecessary can of worms like chris said deschedule not reschedule i'm gonna put that on a shirt i mean it would also just one point i mean it also wouldn't deal with entirely the legality issue right like having scheduled two selling schedule two substances is illegal right if you have not gotten them from a pharmacist and it kind of shifts it into this uh this system that we do not want to add uh this plant to so exactly and like you mentioned it would rescheduling it would mean that it remains under the purview of the fda big pharma is already heavily invested in that area and so we don't want to go there but why don't we um end with what is your overall outlook on the direction of cannabis in 2021 do we see the industry being diversified do we anticipate a heavy year of mergers and acquisitions you know what are your general thoughts and what we see happening this year you know and christina go ahead so i kind of had a preview to this last year um m a is white hot right and that's just because access to capital the miss kobit and other concerns is is not um as as luscious as as it once has been um and to and lending is not where it has been either um so i think that there you will see more consolidations uh in states that have been operative for you know a year two years and older i think that also um on states that are coming on board i really do believe that equity is going to take front and center consideration and justice measures as it should as it should because it as chris mentioned earlier it is one of the greatest it would be one of the greatest miscarriages of justice to form this industry and not do a look back and see that there are certain communities that have historically just been completely raised by the war on drugs and uh to not make amends for that in in a variety of ways um would be it's disgusting i believe is the word that you used and i concur i co-signed to that term so those are my predictions yeah yeah i see i mean there's gonna be a lot of movement i mean legislatures are getting much more comfortable with doing this without uh the need for a ballot referendum without the need for um you know i mean they know that this is a popular thing it's going to provide resources to the state and you know nobody the sky hasn't fallen in the states who've legalized and have been regulating um so you know the states that are active i mean you know virginia just passed their bill they're still going through their consolidation process and you know there's some couple of steps left there before you know cannabis legalizing virginia you know maryland's discussing uh you know pennsylvania is on the verge connecticut new york i mean you know states across the board are going to continue to start to go and we'll start to see more states in the south start to engage in conversation um so i think i think it'll continue to spread i mean what i what i would just point to is is maryland a couple years ago when the black caucus stopped the licensing process noting that there was a failure by the state to award licenses to black companies and i think that is that needs to become uh the model of engagement of our legislators of color as they look to these markets as they established across the country you know look at what's happening in your state under your watch and this handout that is being provided uh to folks who you know did not suffer the the you know the harm uh that was caused by the war on drugs and so i you know i think that's going to be the direction that we go it's i don't think it's going to be smooth i think it's going to be you know confrontational it's going to require folks to stand up and say hold on um but i do think it'll keep going i think the northeast is going to go um within the next year and we'll get programs set up in the next year too and i'm really optimistic about that yeah excellent i'm all equally optimistic given you know what we're facing even the challenges i i have hope that now the right people are starting to speak up and we're going to see this industry move in the right direction because it doesn't make sense to make profit over something when people are still sitting behind bars and i think people are talking about that a lot more and like you mentioned maryland equally in new jersey the black legislative caucus spoke up and that's why we have the hold up that we're seeing right now because they don't want minors to be going to jail for something that's legalized right and so i appreciate both of you guys and your time i just want to ask you both for any closing remarks and where our viewers can follow you guys on social media if if you guys are president or on linkedin christina oh ah on social i'm at cb council let's see like cat be like bird counsel c-o-u-n-s-e-l and uh my closing thoughts are if you care get involved learn as much as you can um and let your voice be heard thank you so awesome um i am at uh i'm only on instagram at chrisalexander.ny um on instagram but i encourage everybody if you're in new york to get engaged in the new york campaign smart dash ny.com uh is the website for that and i do work for uh village which is uh viola is the brand hopefully folks have heard of it uh villages is the is the business so um you know support the support black cannabis businesses go buy some viola guys for anybody that's following you can also follow me on instagram at blaze responsibly if you're looking to get engaged in cannabis new jersey please reach out both these individuals or resources myself included thank you all for your time and take care