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thank you very much so today we're going to talk about digital banking architecture and the trends in the industry in that particular industry and I thought before we start actually dipping into architecture and all that type of things a number of questions are coming up at client-side normally with big banks and everybody's asking you know but all along do I have for the Challenger to challenge me you know do I really need to start there you know do I really need to change and I thought that before we talk about the trends in the architecture I would just show you what the challenges are doing in the marketplace to make you feel a little bit less easy that's coming through so I have a small little video okay number 57 can I have a decaf cappuccino purrs got to pop your hold when I translate coffee department hi they're having to help cook at home and I don't quite get copy departments sorry you got to do lager women would you like to make an application for some food or drink today I just need the first line of your address and your mother's maiden name what a hole while a translator that would have been a seven and cold blue Oh blimey that's completely on my reach I put you on hold for that one he was other right cancer your fish and chips that prior notification where if you do not notify us in writing business is important to us all right what can I get very much as five pounds cappuccinos four pounds he's like six pounds fingers charges so there'll be a hundred pounds of unnecessary charges hello how much one other Wow yes so six pounds for the line and on the surcharge afraid I can't have set your payment get you in a minute I'm gonna pull you over bar Bufo fabric so I can put on our conversation yeah yeah it was awful yeah eventually I feel a bit angry and I wanted to give up wherever you go if you pay for a service and it was POW as you wouldn't go back the service was absolutely terrible and I thought I'd never come back again I give you customers there would you my technicians so important there we go so this is what you have to put yourself against nowadays so not only the challenges are particularly at technology from don't have to deal with a lot of the legacies that Bank have but but but they are very creative communicator and that type of video is actually becoming viral on the on the internet and it does crack up people quite quite a bit yeah so they are very they are really real really a threat so we have done and we were at a session yesterday with some of the LP Bank colleagues and I think people are saying there's 30% of the market shares of Bank which is directly at risk and in the next couple of years you know this threat is kind of increasing really significantly so they are there they are distributing the market they it's quite different depending on which country you in but but it is really really something real yeah anyway so so basically today we're going to talk about the trends of digital architecture in banking and the challenges that that banks are our findings and I actually start speaking and how they're kind of addressing all of that and we're also going to talk about what's coming next on some of the new things around block chains and things like that towards the end so I just wanted to recap before we go further on the challenges of the of the industry of the banking industry I don't know who in the audience is a part of a bank so I guess that's that's ten of you and so so basically that the industry is really not feeling comfortable at the moment for a number of reason obviously digital has been coming forward and a number of Bank have started to put a new operating model around digital it was pretty much in the front end it was kind of the channel that the channel department for a while and then banks have realized that actually you know having those but Digital Department was not working very well for a number of reasons cuz it was primarily kind of the technical people so a number of the banks now are trying to revise the operating model and actually find something that works much better and start splitting the business and the technology divide much more so there's a lot of that happening on the ground obviously the banking industry is heavily regulated in Europe PhD 2 is coming and the regulation are forcing the bank to open up to Challenger and they're really full saying banks to you know to open up so the competition can can take on support of PSD to is to you know provide open API ISM and things like that so a lot of the banks are now regulated to be more open so this is a this is definitely coming through there too obviously there's a lack of digital talent I think we spoke about that in a number of the of the areas before there's very talented people but there's not by many of them I think the industry over the last 10 years I've been really focused on outsourcing and dividing the duties of every every engineers they also you had people to define design you had people to develop you had people to test you had people to operate and people really gather we went through in that direction to kind of get cheaper cheaper service also is better and we really created silos into the job of what should be really the job of a software engineer and - and yeah and we divided all of that and now we're really liking it and bringing it all back together is really difficult so we in a market place where people only know how to design or only know to speak to client to get a requirement don't really know how to develop or test it so the that talent is really is very rare and bringing all of that back together is actually quite challenging especially after all your sourcing we've done on the whole the movement to some of the local country you know trying to kind of recreate that is actually a challenge so I'm one of the thing I've seen I one of my clients you know with fantastic job at building a digital center transformation and we had you know apprentice and we scaled them up and you know they've done two projects and they were great engineer which is flew away to somebody else because the talent is so scarce but they get super great offer so not only you have to build the talents but you have to retain them and that's really really critical for for banks yeah obviously there's the new entrance so we talked about that you know when we looked at the tandem kind of commercial and they're very creative they're there in your face that tend to specialize on a particular segment of the industry and do really really well something that the bank doesn't do really well and that's how they start in trying the marketplace you know obviously time Apple has been there and I've been setting the standard everything needs to be snap snap snap otherwise you know the customer gets bored and you could see it in the video as well the expectations are really high they don't really care if the bank has a 900 back-end system or a thousand back-end system that they had a cry over the time I'm like huh they can't kind of keep in sync yeah because actually most of the bank what's of a big bank in the UK and I think in Europe are thousands of system in the back it is not it is not rare to see obviously data deluge is another challenge obviously if you imagine a thousand five hundred system or making some level of data coming out of it a data quality being quite poor I think in a lot of the bank avalanche big analytic program saying Oh analytic is the way forward starting to collect all of that I'm not really being able to do much with it because the quality is not great they don't really understand it and it's just far too complicated who can understand a thousand systems data they were thought by very different people in very different ways yeah so that that's really really challenging and that's a shame because data is actually quite quite precious for a bank you know a bank is having insight on you as an individual more than anybody else has they know they know when you're buying your house and when you're buying your car they know when you did it they know if you starting to buy diapers or if you if you starting paying school fees you know they know so much about you probably much more than the Google on the Facebook of this world they don't really use it that mine of information is not quite used because people don't really know how to make sense of it yet and then last but not least is culture so big banks have very siloed our organization most of them all the when I came through the big big barrier to change what culture you have people sitting so the business sitting on their budget and then I want to let it go anywhere they want to decide what to do the technician really be taken as people that don't really have a brain but can do IT and just do like tech tech tech tech with commodity you know like something that's not very valuable so like a complete gap in between in between the business on the IT and then the operation people that are like you know the firefighters of this world they will not just come and rescue things when when things happen so those silos are really really hard to break you know we're moving towards that IT is not a commodity anymore it's the strategy is the front is either your business differentiator is the thing that are going to make you successful as a company or not and absolutely changing that that focus and making sure we're blending the boundary of operation on business is actually absolutely critical so basically as you see it doesn't feel very comfortable at the moment being in a bank because you know all of that is pretty big in terms of challenges and despite all of that you need to find a digital architectures at work so I'm here on the left-hand side this is what we define you know as the extension methodology as a high-performing bank and basically becoming digital is adding more to to what high-performing Bank was so high-performing Bank is a concept I would define probably five years ago which was you know much more customer centric you know at anytime anywhere you know you just need to do things once you do a lot most right through processing and all of that type of things all the goodness I think banks most of the banks have not really managed to get into that space yet and digital transformation is adding a lot more things to the party in the sense that you know suddenly not only you need to have a great Bank inside out you just need to expose things to the outside world like you know the FinTech industries with their pis and things like that you need to find new business models and you need to kind of start scaling those things you need to start designing for analytics and unuse all of that data that was not used before the customer wants personalized conversation on the segmentation that happens at the moment in banks you know you in that age bracket on your home that much is not sufficient to please the customer customer are much more savvy than that you know somebody that has let's say 45 K a year in revenue and live in an apartment on Howser degree and is a kind of in the middle of a career move is very different than somebody that has 45 K and is an established plumber in the same age bracket they have very differently they have very different fridge future they have very different opportunity in front of them yeah in the same way each individual is choosing a way to be in society some of us decided to be single some of us decided to be in family some of them decided that actually they just want to be married and okay all of those things really impact you as a person impact on who you are and and you can't really be defined by just a kind of an age bracket on a salary and a couple of the things you're consuming you're really individual so pushing you know segmentation beyond beyond the numbers is actually really important and obviously you know taking opportunity of all the new technology being digital inside-out is is is key so using cloud um I'm just making sure everything is running on as low cost as possible so basically this is kind of what's driving a new digital architecture but most of the time I think a lot of the bank we speaking to get stuck a bit here on done starting to explore in there that's pretty much what's happening in the market at the moment and so so basically to kind of look at you know all those things we need to do on the constraints I think there's been two approach but that are possible I think a lot of banks are just giving up they are deciding that this is just too hard to actually build you know rebuild Bank and then be that agile zombie that locust running and actually do all those great things because you know those dozen system they're so complicated that if you actually try to do all of that yourself you just wouldn't start so a number of Bank I've started to start a new bank so they actually generally creating a new business unit on the side of the bank starting from scratch so they don't have to deal with legacies and all of that and actually pushing it to customer segments to it we see that happening quite a lot in the industry a lot of the big banks have done it like ello banks being flip over and all of that and I'm basically they're gradually moving some of their customers into the challenger Bank and I'm actually kind of coming up with a new strategy around that a lot of the bank they don't do that they decided to start combining the old and the new so the legacy is the system of record and the new and this is where we're going to focus today in terms of what other transients each of the area so we have put a model together to kind of explain what other trends to mix the mix the two and and what's coming in each of the area so the system of record is basically your legacy it's all your data you processes that are just there obviously if you want to do digital transformation as a number of added services that you need to up to that that being analytic start being a number of a process integration and things like and then you have your system of engagement so those are the three layers we will talk about so this is a this is kind of a graph well it's like a kind of an architecture picture to kind of dip into the details of of those three things so basically you know I think the the key thing is to to show that the bank is not in a box only anymore there's an ecosystem that's there next to it and you need to kind of integrate with it that's that's probably quite new the system of engagement we're going to start looking at it but there's a number of trends around that you have a lot more ways to interact with a customer than you used to before number of services you know obviously some things around business process analytic data a cloud integration all of that is actually new added value services that are critical to hard to to you banks to do that digital transformation and obviously service of record a key there is decoupling evolution on revolution but I'll go into each of them into detail yeah okay so the trends on the system of engagement so the system own ignorance is the one at the very right top so obviously you know we interacting with the customer in many ways that we were not interacting before so I think what you can see on the market now is a lot of a customer and colleague driven experience development so extensions are quite fueled a few years back now and I think a lot of the work we're doing now is customer driven so the dynamics of the conversation when we build system is actually very different we think about the customer first and what they want before you actually go and think about the tech on how you're going to make it happen one other thing that's absolutely critical is to make sure something you're going to create in terms of tech is lending in the marketplace properly is testing customer testing and to do that a number of our customer have like separate environment where they have they call it a system of innovation where they'll mock up it'll be bit smoke and mirrors and it'll be quite fast but it'll be just for a few set of users so they can have a taste of what the market says about their product and only when they feel like this is the right product after they tuned it after they tried this or that or this different varia t then they'll build it and turn in their in their bank actually one of my customer is doing that quite heavily at the moment and this is great because before he was taking twelve months to go from inception to production and actually things were not working well with the customer now with a bit of smoke and mirrors on the side we go super fast to production two weeks we still need to kind of do some the data dump and make sure everything is kind of there but we can see if the market is reacting well to a particular fixture before we actually make the investment of modifying things opium so really important for the bank to keep agility at least you know and on the connection with the market you know beside the legacy things because the legacy is really the slowing down process obviously one of the thing that's quite important as well is like video and augmented reality so before website were pretty much some text and a couple of pictures but now we're quite far away from that I think people want experience on video is actually starting to ramp up quite heavily so us as an architect when we're designing a system of engagement we definitely need to think about new media's and new ways of of delivering content which are which are quite new yeah speed em availability so that's definitely the Apple side of things so a big move on lightweight architecture we had some session today about that I think the container things definitely happening happening as well on the helping in in that side micro services spaces and community are we're definitely all of that help you kind of go faster on your system of engagement and from we can see in the industry I think banks are quite reluctant to go to cloud but the system of engagement is the place where they normally go to cloud first you know so they would have normally private cloud for the data or for the added services but the top of the engagement of how you speak to the customer is the bit that they'll feel less reluctant to go because it's stateless because you can go quite fast and it can have quite a lot of demand so so potentially this is kind of one area where people kind of start looking at moving to cloud and obviously there's a lot of new things coming up I think there was a session on Internet of Things just next door one other thing we see as well is biometric starting to to come back in a good way in a sense that before biometric was quite clunky we're really difficult on all of that but nowadays a lot of banks are doing voice biometrics so you call you bank and you don't type any number anymore you just say hi and they know it's you it um they link you to you foot to you bank account and they actually you know do all of that without you even saying much yeah so a lot that's fantastic I think a lot of the banks are starting to do that and this is kind of a you know giving you the security you need but in a very customer friendly way obviously you need to be a little bit open to not type of technology but if your technologies I'm sure you would be an honest technology okay so those are the trends on the system of engagement in banking and I think this is quite generic to the industry as well okay so system of Records so after the top which is going at the bottom so this is the hard hard hard piece in banking and a lot of the bank keep it for the end or don't even want to look at it because it's too hard I think this is the thing now are going to make banks triple because you know if you just move fast at the top and you don't really keep everything in the back moving at one point in time you will be not being able to move any longer yeah so it is really important you try to get the system much more agile than they are and that you do that in front of you know offering new services there's so much you can do without really transforming your system of record yeah and that this is quite hard work do you want to evolve the system of record or do you want to make a revolution and I think you know when you have the bank I was working on before a hundred thousand five hundred system in the back end yeah they couldn't really a blanket statement we're going to evolve are we going to make a revolution we had to look at it per business area so retail banking this was the approach commercial banking cards this is why we were doing so basically you have to start breaking down the problem because you know it is really complicated stuff we're talking about and you know it does require a lot of work but once you have an approach which is either you evolve or you evolve you can take the right approach around you know robotic or automation yeah because all the system very often you have manual interfacing between them or you have file interface or you have batch interface that take days to work so if you decide to evolve your system you know things like blue prism automation on robotic can help you kind of go much faster trying to kind of make them feel like one item obviously if you if you're deciding to stay with our system better integration is definitely key and you know moving you know having a proper API strategy on doing the right point of integration is definitely the right thing to do so by mixing and matching those things once you have your strategy lay down is definitely helping moving moving your system of record to be more efficient one of the thing that's really hard in a system of record area is also the availability on the real-time enablement so I know a few banks that have made major struggles to actually do mortgage application processing in real time so you know like the first mortgage application processing we put with one of the bank and working with four years ago after after three I have the five o'clock in the afternoon the system was not working anymore so the online interface was not really kind of connected to the back end because the mainframe in the back where you know 30 years ago and they used to you know big be finished at five o'clock so it was really hard for us to move you know that type of systems had so much things built on that nobody really understand how things work to actually having something that's 24/7 because not only we're talking about one mainframe but it was like so many depending system on that mainframe those but she's running and all of that type of things and actually new volume coming from the internet channel so the type of headache you're having a trying to move something that's not plan to be 24/7 into 24/7 item it is actually quite quite difficult in the same way for straight through processing yeah because all those budgets are running at different time for particular reason before so having to kind of react attack those bits are taking time so not to underestimate it took us four months at that particular Bank to have a map of all the dependency in the system of record at Eric a particular map to actually document how everything was working and to make everybody feel confident we had it right because nobody felt like we could have it right nobody had documented before we had to do a couple of production tests which is moving the batch schedule by alpha now or things like that so we could actually follow a map was actually accurate and give people confidence that we got it and we could start playing with some of those parameters you make the systems more available and so basically I think we just talked about quite heavily I think high availability and resilience is another thing so most of those back-end system they are like on IBM mainframe and they have more like it's more like the the hardware that's Carol there are never blink this is kind of how they've been built here so they're not necessarily resilient from from a an architecture perspective they're just never blinked before and I had one on my client saying well we don't want to really take that db2 things because we have it there for like 20 years and it is bling two times in that period thing is when you start adding volumes to all of those because you have a new channel you stop playing with the batches and you start to kind of pushing the performance in smaller windows and things like that I think all those systems have a bit you know on the strains so it's not to underestimates to to we architect okay so there are system of record so that's pretty but it is needed because otherwise if you don't do all of that then you can't really have a proper digital service in the front that's you know fast running that's working that's giving the feedback to the customer and then this the layer in the middle is how do you actually make sure that your bridge the gap in between what you have and what the customer need and hard or loose value-added services that are required to make that experience really personable and really high-impact obviously big data and real-time analytic is fantastic I think a lot of the banks launched a number of analytics program a few years back I have a buddy recognized data is great I think a lot of the banks didn't really get much out of it beside we have a great program that do analytic and you know a couple people that came up with a bit of insight on this bit on this bit and I think we think I think the reason why those were not particularly or not as successful as they should be is because it was not really applied to a problem statement I think now with a customer driven user experience I think analytics is really thought through from a customer perspective to start with and people are starting to you know define the data that are required for a particular experience and really build the insight for that particular journey rather than a big blanket statement of let's try to get all of that data and see what we can do with it understanding data is complicated and it needs to be done at the right level of granularity otherwise you just don't get the insight here we just need and we've seen that in in a bank in Dublin they managed to crack it up they have a program now running for the last three years and they still good at it they have like 250 micro segments for customers and they're so good at it that you can predict when you're going to get at the cash point next time on how much you're going to take out yeah or they can just predict that in the next two or three months you're going to make a mortgage application because the last time you did buy a house it was that time when he was in that area people like you normally you know need five years and you know so they're actually really getting spot on they get so much insight out of it because they have spent the time to kind of look at all those experience I really look at what are the jobs the customer needs to get done what are those job that customer gets and then and then you really can be good at understanding when they need it and why they need it and then just be there just before the customer needs it yeah so it is hard but it is possible and we see it happening on the market and I think once banks you know this is this is the golden goose for Bank you know that inside on the customer this is probably the primary things that doesn't make banking necessary commodity if you look at challenge and nothing like that so a cloud service integration obviously you know we talked about cloud quite a lot for a number of reasons so it's obviously much cheaper to go on cloud in terms of running your infrastructure banks obviously you know on the back end on the data is very hard but you know some of the system of engagement value-added services it's quite easy to have a cloud service so just to give you an example around cognitive computing we are currently building an asset you know like a financial digital assistant which is on Watson and we're also doing it with with a platform called neurons from Nina and all of the services are running as a service so the when we go and sell it to bank we just have to integrate with it in it's very very simple type of integration it's already running as a services in data centers and have the right accreditation levels and all of that so those audit services sometimes they are very easy to kind of plug in and the cloud integration is absolutely key for that and obviously Sybil security so this is obviously in in the front of every banks mind to be super secured there's a lot of you know biometrics is fantastic it's actually coming up at the forefront of everything now we're doing a lot of digital signatures and there's a lot of progress made in in that space by a number of either fintechs or some of the main industry obviously not to be overlooked absolutely critical for for okay so now is the trend into the value-added services I'm sure you know during the sessions that you've had you you would have heard of you a little bit of that's just kind of giving you a bit of a test of what what's happening and what is key to focus on so I'm trying to summarize that open to kind of advice or principles for us architects when we actually go at doing banking architecture obviously the front shoes lightweight architecture when you can do open technology as much as you can if you can move those things to the cloud on each day to do it our stateless they are the one not jacket you can just easily do that movement to connect your system with API so I think a lot of the banks are still very reluctant even if the PSD to regulation is coming to open up to bank I've seen a lot of Bank being quite successful in to creating new business model around the API so in the UK for instance Barclays and Santander have API sandbox and what they do is they give the API to the fintechs people so I go and innovate and use my API and and then when when people you know and there's number of business model I can I can come up from that either they the banks ask you know for some exclusivity on the service provided all the banks Mac the challenges or the FinTech pay for the service they're using on all of that so this is very very important you know for the bank to open up and embrace the future I was at a conference in in November last year I think somebody was talking about the petrol industry yeah so you know to do some kind of commodity industry there was the petrol industry so there's not that many players in the petrol industry worldwide at this point in time yeah you probably have four five maximum of people kind of really providing that commodity if you think about banking you would have a number of banks which is outside of this this world you know globally at a global level yeah you probably have is the ten banks in each of the country in the world yeah which is which is a really really high number of banks as things are moving on on the bone wonders of the world are kind of getting more fluid you can definitely imagine now there's going to be some rationalization of you know big people processing payment or big people doing you know foreign exchange currency or things like that yeah so those things opening up and being you know set set set setting you know setting yourself up to become one of the leader in this area and now is absolutely key and I think once the challenges would have used some of those they'll continue growing and then you know the market share can start disappearing but you will just completely be losing that market on the under on the analytics and a robotic obviously you know those are quite key robotics I think is a very easy way to connect back-end system together when you do recording from one from A to B and you kind of save some of the typing time the current client I'm working with at the moment is a big global bank I don't think there's any is probably the biggest global bank in the where they have like there are more than 50,000 people in India doing this is really scary i bank with them I'm after I've been working with them I'm just checking my bank statement much morphed and I can tell you but the benefit they would have by doing robotic and a number of those systems would be fantastic you know it's just like they have so many human trying to figure out how do you and how do you change all you know people typing the wrong guy bun kind of format in a worldwide all of those are quite different and they're just fixing errors of customers all the time because either they don't automate proper y or they just they just don't haven't spent time and unraveling that is actually really really hard and we architect for resilience on high availability 24/7 system obviously now in a 24/7 world so the old legacy they have their limitation but you know if they have their limitation for too long they won't be there for too long because they won't be able to give the service that I required to do and you know I think one of the things that's absolutely critical for banks is and I think the crisis didn't help because you know suddenly banks didn't have as much money as as they used to but people have been trying to go to market really fast and really kind of breaking some of the rules of the coupling I'm now really kind of paying the price for it so this is this is really absolutely critical to make sure that digital banking architecture are moving up and I don't have very much time so I'm going to kind of go very quickly through that it's just a couple of minutes like this is kind of a scenarios of liquid-liquid services of you know collecting all the data I think you covered a lot of that in the Internet of Things things his home or you can actually get much better insight on the customer so I won't go into detail into that but basically you can do pretty pretty cool stuff because you have an interface with the customer which is really privileged so this was about API as well so API open API is absolutely critical not only to kind of internally for your all your systems to kind of be able to kind of cool and undo things with all for you to partner with all the organization but also to be meeting the regulation now and potentially have another meaning of doing innovation in the bank by by partnering with some other FinTech organization and then one of the other one man I kind of like and I think it's important to keep an eye on is is new things coming up like blockchain on some of those protocol there's there's a number of initiative at the moment you know in between a number of banks to try to implement the block change for foreign currency settlement and things like that are very very fast much faster than the current networks that I used and I think this definitely the future I think before I think banks were quite confortable either international transfer was taking a few days I think when those people kind of go to market they're going to make a transfer in a minute or less yeah I think you know it is making a big impact on the customer and those are the things that the customer is going to want to see more and more of them so as architect when you're looking at your payment architecture is definitely quite key to kind of really keep an eye on all those things that are coming up because they are they will make a difference and they're really going to make you stay in the market forever or just just retain market share and we should be a follower that was it for today in terms of digital banking architecture and trends and what we've seen on the marketplace so we can open up for a question if you want so please raise your hand if you have a question yes sir be all being maybe technical people architects maybe even so given the push from the star topspin deck and who knows where entries even Apple and so forth competing with a bit certain juicy business of the banks and the banks needing to move but also you're highlighting that the bank is stuck with a legacy db2 COBOL code mainframes are there any quick roads to digitalization so because you are highlighting particularly the back end a lot of complexity but what are a quick ways out of the hole quickly I was that's what I was talking about with a system of innovation I think a lot of the bank you know try to have something completely separate land a legacy system full stack on the side that's much faster and it's a bit smoke and mirror because obviously you can't replace all the system in one go yeah so at the bank I was working well that we would just try things up new services so they'll have the front end on all about them they'll have their own little databases on the way to have batches that would run or you know people that would manually input data into the legacy to make sure production is kept in sync we will just try those things on the side to prove their work before we would actually do the work so that's one of the thing not that that's actually one of the trick to keep a bit agile without having to do all the work and only invest when you know do it I think after there's there's no I don't think there's any silver bullet you know the work needs to be done if you want to keep your legacy system you know if you don't want to make a revolution and have a new start Bank because you can do that a lot of the banks think it's too difficult to do that so they're starting completely new which is the other options we talked about but if you don't decide to do that there's no magic bullet you need to do the work and start you know we architecting or all of that is is actually working so a number of the bank I'm working with our starting two and four was the commissioning program because actually 8500 system to run a bank is is madness because you probably don't have that many processes that you offer to you customer yeah so but the thing is is merge and acquisition I've been there on as only a few customer on this system and very few there and they have very different type of and all of that is creating major complexity so I one of the bank I was on we decided to decommission a few of the mortgages system I'm actually it was much better to have the people the customer on the system we paid off their loan we said look you owe us that money you have to do your mortgage 30 years ago we actually you don't owe us anything anymore thank you which is going to decommission all of that and that was so much more valuable to do because suddenly they didn't have to pay the running cost they could get rid of all those machine that was all the people operating that particular process just for a very small set of customer so you just need to go and look at all the details and some some some of those things are technically different on some of those things should be just business driven this system is not worth running anymore other things like that so