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how you doing good things have been totally crazy around here like a couple days ago our three-year-old ADA pretzel that was one of these like Trader Joe's peanut butter containing pretzels and so we learned the hard way that she's also allergic to nuts I think our family's like a medical anomaly all the kids are allergic to nuts all through a while yeah we could like go into like a freak show or something that's just been busy I've been crazy my daughter just graduate from high school so between that and travel and AZ and trying to finish up on that project it's you feel like I've aged 10 years in the last few months yeah that happens with these gigs like I find that every day on these jobs feels like a week so when you're there for four days it feels like four weeks yeah all right welcome to device squad the enterprise mobility podcast from propel X which we are I think we're now calling the podcast for the mobile enterprise to help our our SEO situation with the word mobile but don't worry thanks I know you're probably a little nervous now that I've said that but the content will remain the same device squad fighting crimes against enterprise mobility worldwide bad UI frustrating user experiences poorly conceived mobile strategies we defeat them all this podcast series will cover all aspects of enterprise mobility including strategy development design testing and more my name is Steve Brickman I'm a mobile strategist in the ux architect with propel x first a brief history of the company founded in 2011 propel X's a mobile strategy consultancy helping enterprises worldwide devise true mobile strategies and develop world-class mobile applications across all industry verticals propel exclaims include large companies like Amway Bright Horizons Bank of Montreal by airports Family Dollar DLL Cintas Merck and many more propel expand you of services includes eight different mobile kick-starts covering everything from mobile strategy and roadmapping to MCO II to UI UX design to mobile testing strategy along with soup-to-nuts app design development and support additionally propellers three homegrown enterprise mobile products today propel expulsed rata gist James ho sure will be talking with us about what insurance companies are doing in mobile these days and we'll be talking about whether or not many of them need to rethink some of their user experience strategies we'll be talking about what insurance companies are doing well and what they're maybe not doing so well when it comes to mobile and also why every company needs a true mobile strategy that includes a clear roadmap and an organizational plan to support mobile so James thanks for coming aboard here I'd gladly be here Steve I'm excited to share my insights around mobility and certainly in the insurance industry sure so first of all why don't you just um introduce yourself talk about your background a little bit tell us how you came to work for propel X and specifically what got you interested in in focusing on the insurance industry that's a funny story so you know I actually have over 20-some years in technology I started really in the telecommunications industry and then evolved eventually into more of the true traditional software development and solution services over the last 15 years of my career but actually coming out of college I was interested in the insurance industry and becoming an agent at the time and went through and took my series seven and sixty three tests and did it for a while but after finding myself six months into it I just didn't have the drive in the passion for it it was I guess it's as exciting as I thought it was gonna be you know so I found myself gravitating and heading into more of the technology space and so as I mentioned starting out in Telecom and then eventually going into the software and traditional solution services business so last ten years really have been spent 100% in mobile I actually got into mobile working for a consultancy that was focused heavily actually in the Renewable Fuels industry and so we had developed some solutions that were allowing the petroleum importers and producers to attract what they call renewable identification numbers so believe it or not for every single gallon of petroleum renewable fuel that is either imported or produced in the US has a thirty seven digit number unique number that's attached to it that they track all the way through to your local gas station from the EPA perspective so we we're actually developing mobile solutions that were allowing companies to track that whole process and transaction flow and then yeah so it was exciting you know that kind of got me hooked initially but then I eventually expanded from that organization working with a couple startups that were more focused in a broader spectrum or broader industries out there and insurance happened to be one of those so being located in the Midwest there's a lot of insurance companies that are based here as well in Nebraska and Iowa Kansas the coated area and so majority of the customers that I was involved with or have been involved with in my career naturally were in the insurance base so and those customers ranged across all kinds of different lines of insurance from crop insurance to life insurance and voluntary benefits and you know dental etcetera so it's a it's something that you know I just have naturally evolved into and has have served in this industry in this space for like said the last ten years or so and I think the thing that intrigues me with the insurance industry as well as is it is a mature industry overall obviously it's been around for you know century plus a lot of these companies when you look at the Lloyd's of London and some of the other prominent surance organizations like Meacham all behind such right and they have some very complex systems and processes and but yet it's it's a it's something that we all need every day in our lives you know it is insurance so it's not certainly going away so I think the intrigue of trying to help them solve their complexities and forge ahead into the mobile space has been something that I've been very interested in and certainly like said spent the last 10 years so far working with a lot of different companies across that spectrum coincidentally you know I worked on the original iPhone app for progressive and that was like way back in like January 2010 and as you'd expect it was no great shakes as an app I mean you could you know you could review your policy but you couldn't make changes you could pay your bill you could file a claim which was kind of a big deal at the time but people complain about about how rudimentary it was even though it was still still did more than the Geico app which I think was a major priority for progressive but these days just you know six years later their progressive is doing a lot more the app does a lot more you can now make changes to your policy and they also have that snapshot program which is that device that plugs into your OBD port in your car and then it adjusts your insurance rates based on how you drive and the kind of behaviors you engage in while driving so where would you say overall the insurance market is today maturity wise with regards to mobility I look at a couple different ways when you look at mobile ideation there's one aspect of maturity I think we're seeing the insurance market really moving up the scale as far as maturity there seems to be a lot of great ideas and technology innovation that we're seeing out there insurance I mean you mentioned yourself with progressive you know with her snapshot and some of the things are doing as far as the telematics and and biometrics and and how they're measuring your driving behaviors and all these things right and so obviously that's something that's been around for a couple years now with progressive so they were certainly ahead of their time with compared to the market out there in you know you're seeing other companies I mean there's there's companies now like beam that have really taken a leap in the last 12 months in creating a toothbrush that has incorporated the Internet and so they've got this new Internet connected toothbrush that is being underwritten by the National Guardian life insurance company that is being offered out to the marketplace and consumers are liking it and the reason is because they're actually gaining a benefit from that and so they're you know using this toothbrush and based on the use that that it's recording they get you know the benefit of lowering their healthcare premiums and general costs and so forth right you know do they have any internet-connected floss not yet but I want to put it past them I mean it the sky's the limit was farce technology innovation these needs good yeah you actually could do it if the floss container was internet connected there's no whenever you pulled the floss out it would say up floss was pulled out right right crazy not not too crazy but then you know if you look at the other side of spectrum as far as maturity goes and that's where I look at the execution of delivery and I think that's where companies aren't as mature as we think they should be especially in the insurance industry right insurance companies have predominantly been very conservative and they and so they're they're certainly not a fast follower or a leader by any means out there it's compared to other industries but you know I think that the main challenge is as far as execution and delivery is what we're seeing is there still such a heavy focus on modernization of their legacy systems out there that has really been taking their focus off of the digital transformation that insurance companies should be now looking at as they're in 2016 and looking towards the future to 2020 and Beyond right and so it was interesting I in my research I continually do offsuit as a strategist we got to keep up what's going on the markets we serve and especially where mobility and so being focused in the insurance face you know there's a lot of research I'm doing on a daily basis and I'm looking at different studies that are out there and so forth there was one that was done by Bain & Company and this was their 2015 global digital Insurance benchmarking report it was interesting you know they interviewed thousand executives across the US and even in Europe and one of the things that became evident as I was reading that the report here is that out of the insurance executives that they surveyed they all were pretty much in the same page about investing more in digital strategies and that includes mobile but you know all of them also were very unclear about where to start particularly when it was focused on redesigning their processes you know they they seem to have a lack of confidence in their ability to execute their digital transformations and so that's why I said in the maturity level as far as execution to deliver I think the market is low and that's really being driven from top down when your executives aren't clear of where they need to go and what they need to do to you know really improve their processes around digital or even mobile and they're knighting too confident their own abilities to to go that direction as far as their engagement models and offerings then you know certainly your maturity level is not going to be high so ideation definitely there you're seeing a lot of companies that are forging ahead with the Internet connected toothbrushes and the devices that are now being implemented into cars and such that are available to monitor driving behaviors but as far as overall delivery and execution you know we're still seeing the market very immature from that standpoint interesting and you know what types of like mobile engagement models are you seeing insurance companies use to to connect with customers and employees and partners and so forth the the major leading insurance companies out there have all created their consumer apps you know you've mentioned progressive and you see Geico out there in State Farm and a lot of that the prominent brand name insurance companies out there they all have over the last few years really made significant investments in their consumer apps and making sure that you know we can we get in an accident we can easily report the claim and monitor the status on that or monitoring our driving behaviors to give us better discounts and so forth so it's been so heavily consumer focused that you know a couple of the engagement you know users that you mentioned like employees and partners are actually being overlooked and so you know again as I mentioned earlier there's been a significant focus on you know investing in modernization of the backend systems to improve the internal processes that are being used to support the the end customer the consumer which is great don't get me wrong but they're still losing sight of their agents and their partners out there and stuff so you know what this is really causing is some challenges that you know when you look at the engagement model you've got the insurance company you've got the agent and you've got the customer right the consumer out there you know a lot of agents now are just directing their customers to go directly to the insurance company and that's a you know it's it's showing some confidence that you know hey I trust my company that they're gonna take care of my customer but the negative side of it or the the impacts that we're seeing then are great is that because the systems aren't completely integrated and data's not be insured you know by directly both ways between the the company and the agent and even sometimes with a consumer is that not everybody's on the same page and so what we're seeing is that in I've recently experienced this myself my daughter got in a car accident and I used my mobile app to process the plane right there on the spot which I thought was great and I was able to take the pictures and I was able to record everything and submit it electronically and you know I'm like great this is wonderful but you know when the day later I hadn't heard from my insurance agent so I contacted her and said hey my daughter was in an accident yesterday and I filled out everything I was just checking on this she had no idea that you know there was an accident and that I had reported it or anything so the point is that you know we were seeing that there are strides being made but we're still disconnected as far as all the users you know as far as the whole gauge engagement model and in the ones that are being impacted the most are the agents or the partners out there that are you know representing the insurance companies or serving you know the ultimate customer at the end we're good on helping the consumers you know being more self sufficient and ultimately that provides many benefits to the insurance company because they're automating processes or removing a lot of the traditional paper and they're cutting down time to respond and so forth but at the same token we're looking we're missing the other part of the equation in the overall engagement model which is making sure that the agents that are ultimately out there on the front lines dealing with those customers and customers you know they have to be in the know as well right and so they have to have the same data available so if I as a customer contact an insurance company they should get some type of alert or some type of notification via mobile it's the perfect world right that hey James just contacted the company in regards to acclaims I better follow up with James on that claim we're only looking at one half of the equation and so there's certainly a gap on the other part that companies I think are still missing today and need to put more emphasis or focus on sure it makes sense and so what are the insurance companies thinking right now are they are they sort of assuming that Millennials are just going to be conducting more and more of their transactions online and eventually connecting all their transactions online and is this the direction that in which they're headed you know that that's interesting because everybody just assumes right that the millennial generation is just this tech-savvy generation that everything they do is on a mobile evice whether it's watches and so forth out the right but in reality it's it's not true you know that Millennials are still wanting to have some human interaction to make sure that they're getting the right insurance coverage or you know that the support that they need is is there for them and this was evident you know one of the the recent surveys that I read was by organization called selling and so they recently did a study with over 2000 consumers and it was around human interaction versus being 100 percent self-service and when they really looked at it in a microscopic way and they took it down to defining transactions as simple versus complex and they looked at the Millennial as a myth right then the myth is that Millennials want to do all their insurance a hundred percent online and you know what they found out that that wasn't really the case and that in the survey respondents for the Millennial Generation showed that you know they still were very reliant in interested in human interaction versus being a hundred percent so you know efficient by using mobile now when you looked at the two types of transactions again a simple transaction is you know going online and reordering a new insurance card or requesting a new insurance card or you know paying an insurance premium online those are you know what they would call it a simple transaction and it was almost equal there it you know with self-service just slightly above the human interaction aspect of the respondents but when you looked at the complex transactions you know when it was maybe regarding insurance life insurance products or you know a car accident with a claims things that weren't as easy to to research or to find out their answers online then it was a significant difference that even the Millennials were responding that they wanted a higher human interaction and what this is really shown is that Millennials you know are leaning that direction especially on the complex transactions because you know face it they're they're it's a young generation that in the young generation over the last decades of two decades here has really been relying on their parents and you know their elders to really handle their financial traction transactions for them in insurance and payments and things you know up to this point in their lives and so because of that they just really don't understand those types of transactions or complexities around them so they're they are truly wanting more human interaction to assist with those types of scenarios you know around claims or financial questions and so forth yeah that makes a lot of sense I mean that's stuff can get pretty complicated definitely would feel better talking to a person who can who can explain things directly when I have questions I just wonder if those if those human interactions will be replaced by bot interactions eventually let's see yeah we'll see but you know and that's a lot you and I are both obviously in the mobile space we live it every day and you would think that even us we'd be these digital savvy users right and that we went in much human interaction but today we're human right so we don't know everything and we certainly need to rely on others that have that domain expertise so so it certainly it was a myth that was busted you know in the recent survey by cell out there so yeah that's actually kind of refreshing to hear given how much you know time we assume Millennials are spending on their devices are you of the opinion that insurers really know what their consumers want like are they what's their top priority are they thinking about the best interest of the consumer or the best interest of the of the company generally well it's it's it's interesting you ask that because you know there's been a lot of research done on this and then my own personal experience you know we're working with dozens and dozens of insurance companies over the last decade here through different strategy engagements and mobile solutions you know I think insurance companies think they know what consumers want but at the end of the day when you take them through you know the ideation and you really haven't stop and think about the day in the life of who their target users are with mobility they really come to realize that they don't know truly what their consumers want or need out there and so I think you know what we're seeing is that insurance companies unfortunately are still this product focused organization right they have all these financial products insurance products and so when they're they're you know creating their new solutions whether it's mobile or web or social media and they're taking their their legacy systems and modernizing them it's still this product focused mentality of making sure they have all these rich features and and and thinks that they can offer but they're not really stopping to think about what does my consumer really my customer really want or need right do they need all these these bells and whistles that I'm gonna offer to them in this product or are they really needing this you know big robust platform that I'm spending millions of dollars and years to build out there and the reality is consumers aren't concerned about that that these platforms for say I mean they're fine with traditional pick up the phone and call the their agent or customer service rep it's great that they have mobile apps you know at least a good portion of insurance companies out there have a mobile app for their customers as I mentioned earlier that they can go get some quick answers on but at the end of the day what consumers are really looking for is they want their insurance company to personalize offers that they're providing to them you know they want things tailored to their specific needs and based on how you know things are tailored to them they're expecting you know that maybe I'm gonna get a better insurance premium or I'm getting a better investment depending on if you know if I'm with a life insurance product or whatever right so I think that insurance companies honestly don't know what their customers really need at least not everything that they need they're making assumptions and these assumptions are focused on product and on technology versus truly understanding you know what the consumer or their customers are asking for interesting so I'm hearing tighter personalization and more human interactions maybe you know they could pursue some of this live help that's available like on Kindle devices and things like that when we worked on progressive you know there are a lot of pie-in-the-sky ideas that we threw at them to sort of differentiate themselves but none of them were able to stick because I really just weren't set up to support any of this or technology so what do you see as some of the challenges that organizations face when it comes to these kind of mobile initiatives you know I think the biggest challenge still the number one challenge is organizational readiness and as I mentioned earlier in this podcast you know when there was a survey that was done out there that talked to you know hundreds of insurance executives out there and they themselves at least majority of those respondents said that they lacked the confidence in their ability to execute and really deliver on their digital transformation initiatives that all you know revolves around organizational readiness and it's true because again as the companies have spent so much time and money and resources on modernizing their legacy systems to bring it up to to even yesterday's technology standards to improve processes and and drive operational efficiencies they haven't spent you know the time or the effort to really build the resources required for today and tomorrow's technology initiatives which are revolving around mobile technology and social media and Internet of Things and wearables and stuff out there so you know the lack of the skill sets and resources to truly develop and deliver and provide ongoing support of those types of digital and mobile initiatives is certainly lacking today still in insurance organizations and so I think there organizational readiness is definitely probably the top of the list but when you look at the insurance companies there's still this process around there they're different types of channels and how they deliver and when you look at all the different channels out there you know there's really two buckets so you've got multi-channel in omni-channel solutions that have been defined over the years for customer engagements and unfortunately there's a lot of insurance companies that are you know still delivering what we call this multi-channel engagement method with their customers and so what we mean by multi-channel is you know they have customer service and so they've got IVR technology and you know the 1-800 numbers is such right that a customer can call they've got the website they've got mobile they've got an online chat you know different social media Twitter and so forth that they you know provide information about their company stuff but with multi-channel the disconnect there is these multi-channel engagement methods they're not integrated together and so me as a customer for example if I am dealing with an insurance organization that is really delivered true multi-channel offerings or in engagement methods what I'm experiencing is so if I go to the website and I start looking at my policies and I start engaging through the website but then I stop because I maybe have some questions or stumped by something I've run across from the website and then I pick up the phone and call my customer service representative for that insurance organization or even my agent for that matter they have no idea what I've been doing on on the website third they're not able to see that interaction that I've already started that engagement I've started with my company and so essentially I'm having to start over and explain to him why I was on the website in the first place and what I'm looking at so you know this is where omni-channel is really the direction that companies that aren't doing so anyway should be going towards and you know there's a lot of organizations or industries out there especially like the retail obviously that are doing omni-channel very well and so the difference between the multi-channel in the omni-channel is omni-channel really is where you've truly got an integrated you know channel of communications out there and so in that same scenario if I was on the website in an omni-channel engagement model with my company and I called that insurance agent of mine or I called the customer service rep they would be able to see right then and there that you know my transaction the information I've entered and say oh yeah James I see that you're interested in this insurance product for you know your daughter or you're looking for an umbrella policy stuff so they would be able to pick up right where I left off and you know quickly and easily help me and so we're seeing that there's still that disconnect that companies are still you know in this multi-channel delivery model versus in the omni-channel on that so I think that's something that is causing a challenge for insurance companies as they're trying to make these digital transformations and and improve their customer experiences out there interesting you know it sounds like an obvious problem that they would want to fix so once you break down some of the general technological hurdles that that you think insurers are facing today that with mobile that's sort of preventing them from adopting this omni-channel approach yeah sure so you know I think the biggest one is a as I talked about was the integration complexities right so you know that that is probably the top of the list as companies are continuing to modernize their systems in the back end they're not you know thinking about the front end as we talked about earlier and that the overall ecosystem of engagement with my agents or my customers and so I think the integration complexities you know that are spanning across the enterprise from the front to the back office it's right at the top list and in just an example I gave with a multi-channel versus omni-channel companies are you know fully integrated to all aspects of the engagement so there were some recent studies like again some research and some case studies that I read out there and believe it or not there's even some of the prominent insurance companies and we won't name names or anything but one large very well-known insurance company when they looked at underneath the covers their customer service reps are touching 17 different disparate systems and they don't have one single interface to provide easy access to all that information they were having to toggle back and forth between multiple screens to get information for a customer that had called in which obviously is time-consuming and ultimately generates frustration you know for the customer that is having they spend a lot of time on the phone and certainly the customer service rep as they're they're fumbling through trying to find the right information you know I think the other things that we're seeing out there is around data you know big data's have been about you know the buzzword that we've heard for the last three to five years and I think what we're seeing is from a technology standpoint is this you know companies are still trying to figure out how to leverage that data and how to get access to that data so they can you know use that data and harness the power from their data to analyze the risk of their customers and you know make sure they have the right products to them making sure that they're certainly you know charging them the right premium based on the risk profile as such or you know providing the discounts that are needed based on the data you know as you mentioned with progressive earlier they've got the the devices that that you know monitor our driving behaviors and so beylin to get that data in a timely fashion and turn around and then apply discounts that might be one or two warrant it to a customer you know it's important and so you know I think that's an another big thing and I think the third thing we'll we'll mention here quickly is lack of agent by it as the surveys have shown that the executives aren't certainly confident in their abilities yet to deliver and to really forge ahead with their digital transformations well that certainly as you know continued to trickle down the line I think what we're seeing out there is agents are saying well it's great that you've got a consumer app and my customers are getting some of their needs met but yet there's nothing out there for me yet so I think they're lacking confidence in the companies that they're representing whether they're an independent agent or their agent you know a w-2 employee of a large insurance organization I think they're they're lacking the confidence and the insurers themselves and because of that they're not promoting technology as much out there to their customers and stuff so I think you know there's there's still a lot of work to do from the insurer and themselves to really instill the confidence from the executive level all the way down out to their agents just want to kind of throw a curveball out you know just cuz I'm so fascinated in this topic um you know we know that Google is developing self-driving cars autonomous cars and uber is working on developing autonomous uber so how do you think that insurance companies are gonna deal with the fact that we're being driven around by robots that's a definitely curve ball but you know insurance companies why we're all just now kind of starting to hear about the self driven cars and stuff that what Google's been doing and other manufacturers are starting to do we're beta I know like Tesla's got a car that they've been baiting out there insurance companies actually been looking at this for the last couple years and so they've been again going back to the beginning the podcast here that they're ideation that they've done and you know they're forward-thinking and trying to understand what the future may hold for them I think insurance companies are pretty mature and because the maturi y level around that they've actually already been for the last two or three years starting to you know assess how this will impact your industry and I think you know one of the things that they're seeing out there is that once self driven cars really become widely adopted which I still think that's probably a decade or more more out that the impact obviously would probably be on the liability coverage you know when you look at our auto insurance today you know liability coverage is a pretty good portion of that premium and so when we go to you know finally adopting maybe 10 years from now these self driven cars I think obviously that will have a big impact on our insurance premiums and I think you know could ultimately in fact obviously profitability of insurance organizations out there but you know we're we're already making some technological advances you know we're seeing the commercials nowaday with the cars that already have the accident avoidance features in them such as automatic braking and adaptive cruise control and lane departure prevention those are all becoming pretty prevalent and you know they're off seeking a lead to lower accident frequencies over the next five to ten years which should benefit insurance companies obviously because that there's not having to pay out accidents and claims and stuff offsets more money in their pocket in the long run right but I think in the long term when you're looking at self-driving cars you know eventually you know coming to reality and that translating you know ultimately it's a significant lower premiums out there due to the number of accents declining dramatically I think that could have an impact on there but you know there was a recent report from Moody's that I just read and it was noted that well self-driving cars will likely force auto insurers to rethink their business models the adoption of this technologies really decades away and so what this is saying it's it's you know insurance companies have some time you know to really still understand the impacts and certainly the risk around this and and you know come up with the models that are gonna be not only beneficial to them as as the insurer but certainly to their customers out there so I think in a near term we're gonna see that the accident avoidance technologies are going to have more immediate and positive impacts the auto insurance industry for example and certainly to the customers but as we look into the the future you know technology innovation and real-time data consists significantly impact how insurance policies for that matter are issued or even modified based on the individuals risk profile and so a couple things I was thinking about this you know as an example you look at the Jetsons right we all remember the cartoon The Jetsons and stuff we're not that far away from technology as you were saying the earlier with a dental floss right I think ultimately we'll see cars having listening devices and different types of biometrics that can determine if the driver is been drinking you know alcohol beverages and if they're even of the legal limit you know or if they're drowsy maybe they they're tired and based on how they're holding the steering wheel or they're they're driving being we'll determine that Boyd the driver might be browsing stuff and we could see this in our computer technology in the dash of our cars generating alerts out there that you know to the driver themselves it says you know we know that you appear to be under the influence or that you're drowsy and that you shouldn't be driving but if you choose to drive your insurance rate for the next 12 hours let's say will increase by two dollars per hour so press here to accept so you know it's I think we're ways away from that but I think that could be the future with technology and insight cars and how insurance companies be able to use that to you know do real-time insurance policies or premium increases that's really fascinating name you gotta be thinking like in the same way that progressive is using snapshot to get a picture of how you drive and the way you've just described this scenario where biometrics in a vehicle can determine if a drivers been drinking and then issue alerts or almost like making the driver sign a waiver or something that that their insurance rates are going to go up I'm just wondering if insurance companies aren't already doing some of this just by looking at our social media so for instance I I just choose not to ever put pictures of myself on social media when I'm out drinking or anything like that because I assume that at some point these insurance companies are gonna come up with some kind of algorithm that will identify all the pictures in which I'm drinking and then they'll adjust my rates I'm wondering if they could go one step further and say once they have the technology also in the car they could then say okay this person's you know I see their location on social media they've posted that they're drinking I've you know basically we know how many drinks they had because they're very forthcoming with their picture so now we know that they're gonna be driving after and the same thing could be said for pictures of people eating unhealthy foods you know if surance company star scouring our social media pictures and they see a lot of pictures of people eating pizza or whatever or engaging in risky behaviors like I don't know mountain climbing or whatever like for instance when I when our daughter had the reaction to peanuts and we didn't take her into the hospital of because she just threw everything up we gave her some benadryl and she was okay but had we posted a picture on social media or you know or something just to let people know that sadie was okay or that she had the reaction you know that's something that our health insurer could then pick up and say oh okay well we need to adjust some rates here how long do you think it'll be before insurers start to use that kind of social media information to get a picture of how we live you know whether it's life insurance health insurance car insurance and then to use this sort of aggregate information as evidence to adjust our rates you know and is there any evidence that they're already doing some of this stuff you know that's it's interesting we've talked about some far-fetched things right but I think they ultimately become reality and I think this is certainly one of them social media has been on the main stage here for a few years now and I think every industry has probably looked at the impacts of social media and how it can be leveraged not only for marketing and advertising perspectives but also to gain that intelligence about their target you know customers and users right and I think the insurance industry is right there in the same boat I think there are insurance companies that I've already begun looking at this and trying to figure out how they can harness that that intelligence from social media whether it's pictures or tweets or you know any type of information that's posted by a customer that can be used to manage you know or assess the risk you know by building data around their profiles and such so I think that's something that is certainly already there I think companies are like we've already discussed with self-driving car and how they're using neon snapshot by progressive for example to you know measure our driving behaviour so I don't think it's far-fetched at all that we're gonna see companies starting to embrace you know leveraging social media is another tool out there to you know assess their their customers behaviors and build information of the profiles that ultimately will then determine their insurance premiums or how they're rated to get one premium rate versus another and stuff so I definitely think that's that's probably on the near-term horizon it's just again it's leveraging as we talked about earlier it's making sure that they know how to leverage that data how they integrate those systems and how they can you know truly provide that ultimately to the right employees and partners and such out there within their organization and outside of it to provide you know the necessary offerings based on that intelligence so it's not too far-fetched to believe that we're right there on the doorstep of that I think so I think it's not gonna be too long before the information just follows us wherever we go and insurance companies and other companies just just take greater advantage of the the availability of that information what would you recommend that insurance companies do just to guarantee that their mobile initiatives moving forwards I'm are successful well I think that the first thing is is when you you know look at insurance organizations again they've been predominantly very you know conservative they've been so heavily focused on modernization of legacy systems and stuff that they again as we talked about earlier their organizational readiness that the first thing that companies really need to do is establish a shared understanding and vision across the organization around digital transformation initiatives and certainly around mobility I you know there was again some interesting research out there and some surveys that were done that when they went across the spectrum and interviewed various employees across the insurance organization everybody had different definitions of what mobility was or is and even what digital meant to them so and it spans from you know some employees so I was just you know automation of paper processes some thought it was just providing online quoting you know some thought it was you know what we're seeing already out there with consumer apps you know just failed to extend their current systems to the consumer to drive self-service so I think the first thing that you know an organization insurance organizations need to do is you know they certainly need to develop a mobile strategy and as part of that strategy they certainly have to start off with creating that shared understanding and vision of what mobility is and what their digital transformation plan is and then make sure they have the organizational structure that's going to support that vision and understanding out there and then you know certainly as a part of that strategy as we talked about earlier companies truly still don't understand what their consumers want or what they need and so I think you know they need this to really put the right processes in place and go out and truly understand the day in the life of their customers of their agents and people that they're truly are trying to target their digital or mobile initiatives at and once they can get a true understanding of how you know mobile and digital media will be used by their agents and by their customers and such out there that would then really give them the the basis for which they can start defining the roadmap both short term and long term you know over the next six to twelve months as well as over the next two to three years and where they're gonna get the best and the quickest you know benefits of mobility and digital transformation in long term you know the things that they can put in place that will ultimately allow them to take the you know advantage of the benefits that will be provided when we get to you know self-driving cars or really prove out the internet-connected toothbrushes and other types of devices that can be leveraged inside of devices whether it's a toothbrush for an automobile and things right that can not only drive benefits for the insurer but also certainly significant benefits for those their customers out there so you know long story short to sum it up they've got to have a mobile strategy they have to have the organiz organized a tional readiness plan around it they've got to really do a good job through their ideation processes and understanding the day in the life of their target users whether its internal or external customers and you know ultimately need to to make sure that maturity level wise from an execution delivery that they have the things in place it's it's not about running out and building an app and putting an app out there for my consumer it's it's truly putting you know the infrastructure and the security and all the things that it takes to really deliver a long-term a successful digital transformation of our organization and Mobile out there so so you know it seems like a lot of work and ultimately it is but it's important that if companies are going to be successful in embracing digital and mobile technologies out there that they have to put the right steps in place and follow those steps in order to really reap the benefits from it well James thanks again for that awesome wrap-up of state of mobility and insurance companies I enjoyed it Steve thank you so much and I look forward to do another podcast with the Telex device one thanks everybody for tuning in to device squad the enterprise mobile pod cast from propel --ax all right man go take a cue