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hi everyone my name is jessica moraz i'm with new mexico main street thank you so much for joining us we have a great presentation for you today first and foremost i want to tell you that this webinar is being recorded and i will send you a follow-up email with that youtube link later today sean is going to be taking questions throughout the presentation so go ahead and type your questions in the questions panel and he'll answer them as they come as they come up you can also download the handout the presentation that shawn is going to be going over in the handouts tool so go ahead and get that pdf there new mexico main street is a program of the new mexico economic development department and you can see all the affiliate communities on this map if you'd like to learn more about our program please visit nmainstreet.org and if you'd like to learn more about the economic development department please visit goonm.bit we do have a couple of webinars uh scheduled next week's webinar is going to be about be about building and site improvements you can register for that webinar on our website at nnmainstreet.org while i have your attention i just want to give a last shout out to the census please complete your census and encourage your communities to do so as well you can learn more at iconm.gov and with all that i'm going to turn it over to sean thank you thank you jesse uh and welcome everyone to this webinar uh where i'll be discussing the need for entrepreneurship support to be an element in every community's recovery strategy and reviewing models for this type of support and resources that communities can access and again like jesse said i encourage everyone to use the chat feature to ask questions and jesse will be letting me know as questions come up throughout the presentation so there's no need to wait until the very end ask questions um and so my name is sean o'shea and i am the founder of a firm called hatch form that specializes in strategic planning and program creation for organizations that are engaged in economic development and i approach the subject of this webinar from many angles having worked as the program director for the santa fe business incubator co-founder of an advisor to a few companies and i'm currently working with entrepreneur support programs like santa fe innovates which is a tech accelerator for socially conscious founders and a few others that we will discuss later in the presentation uh and the presentation will basically go like this as an outline uh we'll talk about current conditions and how all this relates to economic development we'll talk about models for support programs and then we'll go into available resources both locally and nationally so let's take a look at current conditions we have seen as you all know unprecedented job loss as illustrated in this graph compiled by the new york times and we can look at how monumental the job losses have been especially when compared to those during the great recession just a little over a decade ago springboard here is an organization that tracks pedestrian traffic and we can see in this graph to the left that foot traffic has plummeted year over year this is of course particularly bad news for businesses dependent on the flow of foot traffic through downtown corridors and main street districts but the market penetration of e-commerce has seen tremendous growth in just the past eight weeks we are seeing in real time the rapid collapse or stalling of old business models and the rapid adoption of new ones and this is why innovation and entrepreneurship are so important this quote has never been more applicable and we're playing a little game if you can name the historical figure who said this please write it in the chat box and we'll pick a winner at the end of the presentation and i'll see if i can get a hold of you and send out a gift card or something and we're depending on the honor code so if you can please refrain from googling but we'll be interested to see your answers at the end of the presentation so i'd like to take a moment and frame this discussion around entrepreneurship and innovation as they relate to economic development and so in very broad terms a community has three ways in which wealth in which it generates new wealth and these are exports which in this case is bringing in outside money into the area import substitution meaning purchasing or using more products or services produced or sold in the area and transfers which are is the government making a payment without goods or services being received in return an economic development as a field generally represents and measures wealth creation as the creation or sometimes the retention of jobs and so job creation becomes very important and at their disposal economic developers have three major program classes they work within to stimulate job creators attraction which is recruiting companies to relocate or expand to their area retention and expansion which is keeping companies in the area and assisting in their expansion and then creation and support which aids entrepreneurs and innovators when they are just starting to create a business and we can see from this graph that new firms have the highest rate of net new job creation but this impact is sometimes difficult to see and is not as flashy and doesn't provide the immediate injection of employment like relocating an east coast widget factory to your town does and while high net new job creation is important it does not capture the whole impact that entrepreneurship and innovation have on an economy joseph shumpter in his book capitalism socialism and democracy coined the term creative destruction and as a side note i'm sure many of you have his book on their shelves it's called the theory of economic development and so i assume many of you being economic developers i uh you're familiar with his work uh shunter's creative destruction outlines a process where entrepreneurs and workers create new profit opportunities during times of disequilibrium and turmoil this is expressed in waves that show the accelerated pace of innovation over time and this shares characteristics with clayton christensen's theory of disruptive innovation uh dr christensen who just passed away fairly recently um dr jeffrey west who is the former head of the santa fe institute and lives here in santa fe takes shunter's ideas to the next level by mathematically expressing the imperative for innovation dr west shows that unbounded growth requires innovation to stave off collapse so supporting innovation is in reality supporting the continued growth and quality of life we have become accustomed to breaks in the system like the one we are experiencing now are nothing compared to the full-blown collapse dr west predicts were it not for innovations entering the system with regularity and all of this matters because entrepreneurship is essential in translating innovation to the market so that it can stimulate growth hopefully sustainable growth increase productivity and generate wealth and new jobs now we can take a look at some models and examples of entrepreneur support programs and i tried to pick ones out that were immediately relevant and were here in new mexico so first are business incubators business incubators are basically the combination of space and programs and mentorship meant to accelerate the growth of early stage companies and in its strictest sense an incubator is all those three things it is space it is mentorship and it is programming meant to give companies an incubation period or growth period where they have a lot of their needs taken care of they're in a safe space to grow and they're provided with a lot of resources to grow and then on the right here is the santa fe business incubator which is a shining star for business incubation in new mexico and and a nationally acclaimed business incubator which is a 30 000 square foot space that offers lab office warehouse light manufacturing they have a shared bioscience lab they have a maker space they have a small co-working space they have conference room spaces uh the next are accelerators uh and accelerators uh provide an idea or very early stage teams uh with curriculum and mentorship designed to validate customers and markets um often accelerators come with funding uh but you have to give up a stake of equity in your company or they can charge uh for you to go through the program uh there's awfully heavy reliance on the cohort so the cohort the people you're going through the accelerator with the other participants as well as mentorship and connections to people in the industry or to other resources an example great example that's happening currently in lovington is the local innovators institute which is an accelerator concentrating on food concepts so working to validate uh different and varied food concepts in lovington and then utilizing a shared food truck uh to test the market uh for those for that food concept and that cuisine uh boot camps are another entrepreneur support program and these are generally defined as short limited workshops or training sessions that essentially give you an idea if you are just starting out or just have that light bulb go off in the shower whether or not what it is you're thinking about could really be a business and uh usually they're designed with um to give you the uh the power to for an informed go or no-go decision at the end of the process which is usually short you know maybe a week at most a day or two is typical and this hatchet is a boot camp that gallup mainstream arts and culture district is working on for that very same reason to kind of draw out entrepreneurs get them introduced to the to the ecosystem and to the organization and then provide them with a little bit of startup support and help in deciding whether or not their idea could really be viable in the market uh co-working has gotten a lot of attention especially with the troubles and turmoil that we work has been going through and co-working is is pretty simple at its base it's pretty much just an organization that signs a master lease uh with uh with a landlord and then sub leases out smaller spaces within that to usually start startup companies distributed workforces solo workers solopreneurs there's a co-working space called project y in los alamos which is great they have a shared open co-working space along with dedicated desks uh they have a kitchen area they have a conference room and they're working on getting uh some more private kind of phone booth spaces for people to be able to make calls in a more private setting maker spaces are also very popular uh and it's essentially a makerspace is a a place where you have access to shared equipment and this equipment is usually either um hard to use so you need some training on how to use it correctly or use it for whatever purpose you have or it's very expensive uh and so it's kind of outside um the individual's ability to purchase one for their home uh so you can go in and use the equipment in the makerspace and there's a great makerspace future forge in silver city and they've got a 3 600 square foot and they offer a whole bunch of things like 3d printing and sewing cnc laser maker spaces are popping up quite a bit especially around new mexico and they're really great assets for for makers or people interested in in designing or producing a product there's of course an education aspect to entrepreneur support programs and college universities and workforce development organizations you know have for the past you know decades six years really recognize the importance of entrepreneurship training a lot of community colleges or four-year universities have entrepreneurship programming or classes there's a great organization called the new collar network that's located in new mexico and they're developing a digital badging system or micro credentials for individuals interested in pursuing a different path besides a two or four year college university and so you can go through cnc routing additive manufacturing and they're developing an entrepreneurship badge as well networking is super important especially for kind of coalescing ecosystems together and networking can take a whole bunch of different shapes and it's very you know mostly inexpensive to kind of get off the ground and get started and there's a great networking program organization in santa fe called kick-ass entrepreneurs of santa fe that was started by melanie lenzi and they are utilizing this idea of entrepreneur story time as a where entrepreneurs are invited to just tell their story and not to pitch not to go through a big sales call or product description but just tell their story of how they got started and why they're there and why they're doing what they're doing and using this story as a process to build community social capital and larger amounts of community support for entrepreneurs and entrepreneurship in and around the area and then of course there's tons of hybrids and so there's very rarely an instance where you have a pure support model most often there are combinations of things that make sense for the area or for the network or ecosystem in which they're they're operating and a few of them uh in new mexico again in gallup uh co-op commons is uh is an entrepreneur support center that's in its infancy right now but being worked on and it's uh it's a mobile entrepreneur support center so it would take over a building in the downtown district operate for a little while but also serve as um as an advertisement a marketing campaign for that vacant or under utilized space so that when it's finally leased or bought the entrepreneur support center would move to a different area of town and they would include a little co-working space they would have the boot camps in there they would offer some other business and technical support to both startups and to current businesses in the district the local rainforest is located in albuquerque and it's an initiative of a whole bunch of different organizations unm a major one and this combines uh space they have office space they have a lot of programming there and they also have student housing in there so you can really incorporate students into the like the ecosystem or the scene that's happening there because they have a lot of other businesses and startups and funds and sandia labs has their technology transfer office there so it's a cool synergistic place to be and then finally the innovation depot is not in new mexico this is in birmingham alabama but they have a really large um innovation hub where they have uh you know they have business incubation they've second tier second stage business incubation for larger companies they have an accelerator program they have a fund they have a co-working space they're just a whole lot of support programs that are wrapped up into this one institution um and then it's interesting to look at you know this all sounds great um but where do i even start you know if i'm an economic developer or a main street director or just an interested community member how do i how do i get going and the approach that i would recommend is to look at building an ecosystem and not chasing after one silver bullet that's really going to try and solve all your problems and so by by ecosystem building i mean that you can start with with very little or very low cost programs to try and draw out the innovators and the entrepreneurs and the inspiring business owners in your community and then it's about building up the resources and support systems available based on the needs of your particular ecosystem because we're all different and we're all going to be working towards different things and we're all going to have the ability or the capacity to provide different sorts of services to the people that are in our communities and here's a nice approach that starts with mapping the ecosystem that already exists so what is already available in in your area in your community uh you know maybe you already have an sbdc or there's a west office close by there's a chamber of commerce possibly and they offer business classes or there's a community college with a business program a good way to start this process is just by asking if i had an idea where would i go and then try and map out the different resources that are available at the different stages of your as your idea grows into a business um i have an entrepreneur ecosystem mapping template that if anyone is interested and i'm happy to share with them and kind of go through how to use it the next step is just identifying gaps in the ecosystem that's been mapped so places where there aren't any services there's nothing that already exists or whereas services that do exist aren't really helping as they should maybe they weren't designed correctly or they're not really going after the right people to provide the most value and then designing programs on your own to help fill those gaps the models presented just now a little earlier can act as guides in this process but again everything should be tailored to your individual community and your community's unique situation and then finally it's to go and do pilot programs of the things that you've just designed and not all of them will work and it's good to look at failure not as a stigma uh but as proof that you're working towards something you just expand on the ones that work and then you try to do it all over again so you go back to the mapping having input at the programs that work that are already in existence and then you look at it again you look at the system again it's a constant iterative process but it is one that can be really fun and really rewarding for you and your team now we'll look at some available resources and we'll we'll kind of whip through these and all of these are hyperlinked on the pdf so you can just click on them and go to the website if you need to um the state's economic development department has a lot of great programs especially to help out um you know ideas and entrepreneurs the office of science and technology has a few really good ones that are worth checking out the clark hewling's fund for visual artists has a great they run an accelerator program and they also run just these classes seminars for visual artists who or creative companies or individuals who want to you know turn their art into into more of a business the hour head center in mexico state university has a series of sprints or accelerators the new mexico angels are the angel investment group for the state and they offer classes and sometimes you can you can work with them to come into your community and do like an equity 101 workshop west is a great you know they have an incubator in albuquerque and they have a series of satellite offices that provide really great business support and coaching they also have a loan fund uh the new mexico small business assistance program is that of los alamos and sandia labs and they provide free no cost technical assistance to businesses creative startups also runs some boot camps and accelerator programs targeting the creative industries uh the small business development centers are great for helping people think through their ideas create business plans access funding the catalyst fund is a investment fund created by the state administered by sun mountain capital where you can create a fund and get state money to help create it and then it just needs a one-to-one or 40-60 match activate new mexico is a program between abq id and cnm and they run an accelerator program uh nmfast is a great program that helps people write sbirs and sttrs and then the new collar network we talked about as offering digital badging and other services to uh to communities and maker spaces and then on the national level there's two really major ones usda and their world business development grant offer technical assistance training they will fund construction sometimes and usda has offices throughout the state it's definitely worth getting in touch with your with your usda office to talk to them about their royal business development grants and their other sort of economic development related grants and and services and then the eda has this 1.5 billion supplement out that was part of the cares act that is really allowing communities or economic development organizations to do a lot of really cool things you know like set up programming do feasibility studies do you know economic development plans or other other types of plans they'll do they'll do a whole host of things and they also have this build to scale program which was previously the ras for anyone that had applied to that and this you can get you know money to to develop and launch a program they'll help they'll help help you design a accelerator program they won't capitalize one but they'll help you with the organizational aspects of one um the industry challenge is an interesting one here this year it was concentrating on uh on businesses or ideas having to do with ocean technology um but we would hope that they would continue with other sorts of industries down the line and these are these are some other ones um for anyone that's been to a startup weekend these are really great these are free you know they'll give you a lot of resources and things for free americorps is a great volunteer program and you can contact americorps vista to try and get a program in your area or for your organization that can help launch a lot of these entrepreneur support programs global entrepreneurship week is a really fantastic uh i think it's usually in november right before thanksgiving uh and it's just a celebration of the ecosystem of all the things that are going on for entrepreneurs and it's a it's an international now program so you can link with other areas that are doing similar things the kauffman foundation offers a lot of studies and reporting and programming to help and assist uh growing entrepreneurship in your community one willing cops is another networking event actually run by the kauffman foundation uh and then strife atlas is an interesting one i threw this in there because it's great for uh for really um for real like tech companies or companies that are interested in possibly creating to go after funding at a certain point strife atlas will help you set up all of your incorporation documents and then there's also like a bulletin board and a community aspect to it where you can ask other people how they did things uh and then strategizer is the site that uh asta walter who uh created the business model canvas he and his partners created strategizers so there's a lot of really good information there about about the good business model canvas value proposition canvas and all the other resources that they're working on and then finally these are some trade organizations that have a lot of really good information on entrepreneur support programs and models the india is the international business incubation association gan is the global accelerator network iedc is the international economic development council gwa is the global workspace association which concentrates on co-working spaces and nvca is the venture capital association the national venture capital association and then with that i am uh more than happy to take uh any questions or if you have um a guess for who whose quote that was uh you can shoot that out as well hey sean uh dirk was the first one to correctly answer that did you want to give the answer oh i don't have it sure uh well it was vladimir lenin oddly enough so congratulations i'm clapping but you can't hear me so if you give me your contact information your mailing address your email address i'll try and get you a prize pretty soon i'll pull that from the registration list and send that to you there was also some requests for that map so um if you'd like me to include that in the follow-up email i can i can do that yeah for sure for sure it's uh really just a series of slides uh that people can use as they walk through the process uh but i'm happy to email it to you and then maybe we can get in touch and i can just talk to you over the phone about kind of how to use it okay okay here's the okay just some more uh request for that map i'm not seeing any other questions so go ahead and please type your questions now in the questions tool okay so if there are any other questions please feel free all my contact information is on the screen here as well as in the handout um so feel free to shoot me an email uh and i'd be happy to talk to you about any of this stuff looks like there is a cup a couple here sorry sean for the delay what is what is your thought on incubators uh business model postcovid what do they sell if they can't sell space that's a very interesting question uh so i don't know if this is as uh like being an existential problem for incubators because they are primarily private spaces so i know the incubator in santa fe anyway over half of the businesses that were there were considered essential from the very beginning and now that things are starting to ease a little bit you're able to go into your own personal office as long as you socially distance while you're in any of the common areas um so while like conference rooms and things aren't necessarily in use you can still go there um as part of your you know whatever your your work schedule is um the the bigger i think uh the the bigger loser would be uh co-working spaces or any co-um space uh so there's gonna be i would imagine there and i think we've seen this a lot there's a shift towards um sort of the the uh people not liking uh shared or open workspaces that much and this is just going to exacerbate that so there's going to be a trend towards more private you know separated office spaces and so i think that's going to be a pivot that a lot of the co-working or other sorts of open models are going to have to make okay next question what activities are showing the most promise in new mexico to spark entrepreneurship um that's a good question i think that's i mean there's been a proliferation of these sort of non-equity-based accelerator programs like the sprints or creative startups um you know runway pre-incubation program uh activate new mexico and i think that that's drawing a lot of people out and kind of giving them the training and you know opening their eyes to what it is that's really necessary in order to be successful especially in sort of a resource-constrained state like new mexico so i see that as being a positive um i think that there's been there are attempts while not all the time super successful to sort of increase the capital stack inside new mexico and i and that would be great if that were to continue um i think yeah i mean i think those are the the the ones that that that i'm very interested in are are places that like um like lovington or or gallup or los alamos or anywhere really around the state they're sort of taking the idea of wanting to have an entrepreneur support program and instead of devoting all of their time and resources towards like building or outfitting um a 20 000 square foot building they're saying let's start from the programming side of it and what can we do to really help the people that are in our community that want to be entrepreneurs that want to start businesses and starting from there so starting from the ground up as opposed to starting with you know large architectural planning documents next question what can smaller communities do to help get a local scene going for entrepreneurs any recommendations yeah so i think the well i mean i think it's what was recommended in the thing was i think first and it's to see what you've already got so what's already happening there and i think digging in quite a bit you might be surprised to see you know what is already happening and then saying okay there's what isn't there anything of that we really need or would really help um and that could be you know maybe there's no place for people to meet one another if they're interested in starting a business so let's start like an entrepreneur happy hour and let's see how it goes or let's start an entrepreneur coffee hour and just see how it goes i think that there's no shortage of things that communities can do it's just sort of the the trying it and giving yourselves permission to fail and say okay this isn't working it doesn't mean that you know nothing is going to work it just means that that thing didn't work so let's try something else go after something different okay next question who are the best sources for lead investors in the region oh it's a very good question so that's a difficult question so the capital stack in new mexico is definitely [Music] in its infancy um a lot of it depends on where you are so uh you know people like to especially here you know they will invest regionally uh or locally um so i think that would be i mean i would love to take that question offline and uh we can talk more about where you are and sort of what sort of funding you're looking for and we can try and uh see if there's anybody that i that i know of um but a lot of it is just doing that leg work in the beginning to find out if there are any you know one accredited investors who are making investments who are interested in it in your local area and if there are how do you engage and activate them to want to be interested in investing in companies there's a couple of you know early stage funds that were created as part of the catalyst fund uh one is nmsu i think it's called the hour head innovation fund uh which might be an interesting which would be a good place to start possibly depend again depending on where you are um yes that's where i would that's kind of a lame answer probably but but let's talk offline whomever it was that asked that question okay next question what do you see as the next big step needed in new mexico to propel the ecosystem forward get more funding grounds closed exit events secured etc sure so i think a lot of it has to do with risk capital um i think that they're um you know while there is some while it's probably better than it has been there isn't a lot and so you have to be fairly well established and have sort of a market presence in order for someone to take a look at you uh where you know a lot of times you know depending on on your situation you might not have the time or the or the personal runway to get to a point where you would have some sort of market penetration that would interest an investor that's in new mexico um so that would help i think uh you know educating people activating and engaging people who might be uh investors to uh be more involved or bring in um you know larger investment funds or regional funds into the area to do um you know familiarity tours um uh with you know with companies that are interested in that kind of funding um i think the other one is that that there we need to have a we need to have a statewide celebration of companies that are doing well or who are in a stage where they could or would need uh this kind of risk capital or or you know venture or angel funding um and have you know just a uh catalog or um or or a way in which people can access them um so it's not so much like if you're you know if you have a really good idea um but you're in luna county there isn't you have to either you know leave or there's no really there's not a lot of places for you to go to um to really accelerate the early growth of the company and get it onto a level playing field with people that are possibly your competitors in other parts of the country so those are the two that i'd recommend off the bat okay uh just a recommendation from uh from a participant to uh recommend one million cups and kick-ass entrepreneurs uh let's see here next question what would you like to see communities begin to do to use entrepreneurship to ignite recovery uh so i would like to see them start to support it i think first you know by by drawing people out and um and assisting them however like however they can whether it's you know getting with an organization like main street or the economic development department or some of the other ones that are listed to provide resources for them or we're just you know saying that this is letting it be known that this is something that they will support and are interested in okay are there any unique cultural elements challenges related to starting up a company in new mexico that are not common in larger more well-known e osystems well i mean one is access to capital right so there's um you know even in our sort of region new mexico lacks a lot of risk capital um [Music] i don't i wouldn't say that there is necessarily [Music] i mean it is that there's that it's a big state and people are really far apart so sometimes it's difficult um to connect with one another but i mean that's really largely becoming less and less of an issue um you know i think uh yeah i mean one of the you know one of the things that i think holds back new mexico a little bit is this is like the application of the anti-donation clause to say there's no way that the government can set up funds to you know with state money in order to invest in different industries or clusters throughout the state uh in a real meaningful way as a seed or a really early stage sort of prop fund i think that would be that would be helpful but there's not much really that we can do about it um yeah but i don't know if there's anything necessarily like that that i mean that i'm aware of anyway that is is like culturally different about new mexico in in this regard that would hold it back um do you know of any specific organizations addressing renewable energy resilient communities or transitions from transitioning from fossil fuels uh any organizations that help in that i'm not super familiar really with um with renewable energy space um so no but yeah feel free to uh connect with me just shoot me an email and i'd be happy if you have a specific uh let me know specifically kind of what you're looking for and i'd be happy to to help research it are there any programs that are better for folks who don't have collateral resources or operating on reservation like um i know it's hard because they're it's hard to get uh follow-up questions but um i mean if you're so there are there's a lot of i mean in new mexico there's a lot of accelerator programs that operate virtually especially now so um the ones that have our head center are doing that creative startups is doing that activate new mexico is doing that and they're they're usually very low or no charge to participate those would be good ones to start with i know the um the navajo technical college uh in mckinley county is a certified incubator a certified state incubator and so they would be a great organization to reach out to if you're in if you're in that area um i think i can't think of any offhand but yeah but again if you want to shoot me an email i'd be happy to talk it over with you um comment here the new mexico state investment office has recently allocated an additional 100 million or so for investment in new mexico businesses to be managed through sun mountain capital in santa fe um so this participant didn't see that on your list and just knew if you had any more information about that uh i don't my understanding for that was that it was they were um oh wait that was is that well if if you're there are you talking about the uh the the covet um loan response uh or about the actual like equity investment uh that would be interesting to know um but yeah i mean i we're all i mean i am all for activating the sic um to be more uh engaged in in investing in new mexico companies oftentimes with larger funds like that you're looking at safer bets and i think what we need are you know instead of investing 500 000 or 2 million in in a company that already has 200 employees i would like to see more emphasis on investing 100 000 into 25 companies that are just starting out and yes that was referring to equity investment and i have another question can you point to any examples as to how incubators or accelerators have tapped into the eda supplemental funding uh the the new one i don't know of any right now but that's sort of an unfolding i don't know of any in new mexico that have done it um i assume they're talking about the the 1.5 billion that was just allocated um yes but certainly and it's open for that so i mean they should if uh if you know if they're if they have any if they have the capability to do it they should definitely do it with the city budgets taking a financial hit should they carve out some funds to support accelerators more to jump start the economy i think it depends on where you are i think that you know it might be that you start with um with a networking or a boot camp um or or just a general meeting um to see who it is that that comes out and what their interests are and and what sorts of resources their support they they need and just do these really small you know very um very cheap uh little events to kind of get the pulse of the ecosystem and then build from there and then do you have any insight as to why new mexico is behind an economic growth compared to surrounding states that is a six million dollar question right there um i don't really i mean i don't know i don't really have any any anything that would be particularly insightful for that i don't think um there's been i mean i've heard a lot of people say a lot of different things about why that is the way it is um [Music] you know i don't know i apologize that's a that's a lame answer but i don't know no worries that was great that's all the questions i'm seeing so i think what we'll do is just end here and i'll follow up with everyone with um the youtube link and all that good stuff so thanks everyone for joining us today thank you and sean if you want to send me that map i can include it in the follow-up okay for sure okay thanks everyone bye bye