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[Music] [Music] hello and welcome to security scan i'm vishal tahia and this week we're going to talk about basic exchange and cooperation agreement that is becca which is expected to be signed between both united states of america and india soon now to understand various aspects of becca and why it is important for both the countries to go ahead with this particular agreement we have a very distinguished panel of case with us today let me first introduce all of them to you beginning with the trademark general dhruv c katocha who is the director of india foundation we also have with us chad may general ravi arora the chief editor of indian military review and ajay banerjee the defense correspondent from the tribune welcome all of you gentlemen to rajya sabha television let me begin with you ajay and let's start with the basic question first what is becca hello vishal i must tell your viewers first expelling deca is very in three parts first three agreements with the us called the konkata the lsa and the background the comcast relates to communication between two military platforms of india and the u.s the lsa is logistic supply agreement between india and the u.s that is means india and the u.s platform can refuel and to take supplies and fair fast at each other's basis and the becca is of course talked about geospatial mapping now why is that important in the past 15 years indoor u.s strategic planners have spoken about one important word these are called the foundational agreement for a solid india u.s partnership now when the the other two were already been signed the comcast and the lsa have already been signed the beta was the remaining part of the foundation agreement what does the beta bring in now now put it in perspective compartment communication it has been signed logistics has been signed and becca will bring in geospatial mapping now what does it help when you fire a missile or use a drone an armed drone it fires a missile the pinpoint accuracy will come only when you have geospatial mapping when geospatial mapping is there available with the pilot of the any other fighter jets or any of the platform which india uses now at the moment of the american origin and plans to buy those armed roads from german atomic the the arm drone will need a pinpoint accuracy and position to reach the target desired for that the decca will be important i'm not saying it is a it is an agreement which leads to the equalities of our terms but the agreement will will empower the use of armed drones or specifically user controls or possibly help the use of armed roles in reaching their target that is the use of becca in one action it will also be used for mentality accuracy and other aspects of flying any unarmed or even on sorry unmanned platform or unmanned platforms better as the special mapping will help in that manner okay okay uh that uh should you know uh sort of uh put things in perspective as far as what exactly becca is but to understand it a little bit more deeply and from a strategic point of view as well let me bring in both the journals here one by one let's let me start with you uh general katocha in terms of the significance of of signing such an agreement and then we're talking about two nations here india and united states uh whose you know defense cooperation is gradually moving up step by step you see i personally feel that we should have signed bika must much earlier now uh for some reason as far as the india u.s relationship is concerned even when we signed the first agreement in 2002 that was the gso mia that is the general security of military information act you know we signed it in 2002 but it took 15 years to sign that means that other that is a time period allowed and from 2002 now it is 2020 we have signed two more foundational agreements and hopefully beaker will get signed now now why is biker important i think it does the the basic reason why it is important has already been explained but let me go to into one of you a few other details you know it enables you can share now as we stated earlier the geospatial uh products including access to mapping and hydrographic data now this is very important all flight information products and most importantly what we are talking about is you will get access to the united states national geospatial intelligence agency's geospatial information bank but this is something which we i think are looking for so what would it allow access to when in real terms what will happen you can range you can uh you can you can access a whole range of topographical nautical and aeronautical data now it is not just related to firing a particular missile with pinpoint accuracy let us say there is a humanitarian aid and disaster elite mission some cyclone hit areas you require information about that and we are the first responders or the american or the first responders we can share data if you have to go for any out of area contingency which is important to both of us we can share data the experts on both sides you know they can engage in subject matter expert exchanges our people can be trained in the united states but what has happened is because we didn't have this agreement um certain things got affected now what what got affected okay we have already bought the c-17 from the from the americans the c-130j and the p8i aircraft now because we didn't have this agreement certain navigational and flight management uh systems which could have come have not come uh one thing which we must remember is um this is still when even when this arrangement is signed it is going to be um what do you call it uh an umbrella agreement and after that umbrella agreement there will be subsidiary agreements which will be signed which will be specific now that is this is important because there are a lot of people who are having concerns about india losing strategic autonomy it is not going to happen so i think we should go ahead with this the subsidiary agreements on specific issues of india's concern can be signed or they cannot be signed that is up to us but we need to go through with something like this it will give great advantage to india especially in the present times when we are having problems in the indian ocean uh when china is becoming very aggressive in the south china sea and when china is getting very aggressive in eastern ladakh okay okay let me let me bring in general review point of view you know why it becomes really crucial for india to you know sign this agreement with united states of america that is becca you know the first major reason is galwan and ladakh they say and every time any of these foundational agreements have been signed with the us there was a reason there was some trigger it started with 2012 as ajay brought out that was the first time when an agreement was required on information security information being exchanged between american industries and indian defense industry that's the time the big u.s majors started opening offices in india so it became necessary because the americans they don't allow their defense companies to even go for a briefing unless it is approved they are very careful about imparting with knowledge about advanced technologies to any country where they feel it may land up with their adversaries so it started with that and then we had the logistics support agreement the largest and and you know in in with india it's called lemoa logistics logistics memorandum of agreement agreement you know at that time what had happened during the gulf war american planes has started refueling in agra and at some other place without the public knowing it and when public came to know there was a human cry and the indians had to stop their refueling although it was in our interest uh so of course then when the government changed there has been a sea change in our relationship at the strategic level at the military level economic relationship all have changed so and then came comcasa uh communications agreement uh that is because we bought so many platforms that were signed in 2018 we bought the c-130 c-17 v8 uh maritime surveillance aircraft which you know the apache so many systems have been bought the landing uh landing ship dock what is it called the lpd was bought so it became necessary to for the security of u.s communication equipment and interoperability to sign that agreement and now when galwan has happened when you know we have also started accelerating the testing of our missiles fielding them and imminent is the purchase of the predator b cruise missile correction the combat uav armed uav now that uses spatial data of the us unless you have an agreement the u.s has a legal framework they won't part with this combat uav their special data so of course there are many other aspects to this spatial agreement as uh group pointed out they will provide you with imagery they will provide you with topographical data hydrological data and so many things for use by uh satellites by airborne systems you know and they're going to provide it free of cost they think it is in their interest to provide all these things as well as training otherwise yes we can buy it from them but you will have to pay not only pay they will decide whether they will impart with it or not now with this agreement uh the the good point is that it comes free of cost so uh it will be a classified data coming to us uh from the u.s geospatial interagency we will get training we will be able to use this in our own weapon systems which use this data and you might say why don't we use our own data well the americans have this data for the whole globe it's pinpoint accuracy we don't have that kind of data we can use our own data generated by our satellites but it will not provide the kind of accuracy to our missiles to our cruise missiles to our uh you know guided weapons as do does the american data okay so that is how it became necessary uh at this time to go for it okay okay okay from uh you know uh your perspective if you look at this aspect the strategic aspect here and as both the generals are pointing out you know it it it goes ahead and enhances our own capabilities our own capacities in terms of data which we will obviously be sharing with the united states and they will also in turn be sharing their spatial data with us as well now the question here is do you think this becomes really really important and crucial with the you know uh ongoings right now at our northern border and as well as from the maritime security policy aspect as well we shall first start off i must congratulate our diplomats and our policy makers and thinkers who have successfully stepped onto two platforms which is the u.s uh group and the russians imagine no country in the world finds a becca with the us and operates russian missiles this is the kind of thing we are doing unimaginable unthinkable but it is happening its reality right front of our eyes why it is happening we shall please understand the meta we are finally now part of the court in the quad as we all know had a meeting last week in japan and the four foreign ministers met and we are headed towards what possibly will be looking like a mini nato kind of thing with india joining in many other countries like france and even the uk showing interest in east of the field canal would be joining in the endocrine construct now why the beta comes into play all these countries are nato allies the uk especially is very close to google they operate these systems already out there as general pointed out for us to operate an armed drone needed for uh pinpoint accuracy we need this agreement now imagine that we have to in today's world the air chief at a press conference in the start of october said that they are still working out what kind of system is being worked out for a mix and match of drones and manned planes now coming back to why this is needed as well please understand when a republican flies towards the late initial radar the chinese uh ground air surface systems are uh looking at those systems and could bring it down their fall is a very costly claim and a human life is flying it but tomorrow if you have an armed drone which will cost much less than a rhopal will carry similar kind of missiles and if it is down there is no loss of human life so there is no villain trying out in the country also the the capacity of the drone to fly long hours will be determined and it by the becca and the geospatial agreement which we find your special data which is available to the drone which is sent into its computers so that drones ability to fly for 30 hours or 35 hours will be determined by geospatial data and accuracy will be remembered that so that answers your question vishal how is it needed in the eastern las vegas in the indian ocean or the south china sea is already rightly pointed out and we have this ocean that oceanographic data the the reach magnifies much further vishal which possibly uh is yet to be understood in my opinion okay okay you know one one more interesting aspect here which i would like to bring in and taking it from what you said earlier as well as what john arora and ajay are pointing out you mentioned that you know this agreement from your perspective should have been signed much earlier now now that it you know it is highly likely that this will happen uh does this act as that you know a gap filler between that defense cooperation between both the nations which we're talking about and that you know that balance which ajay was mentioning uh which india has to ensure between its two allies one united states of america and the other russia how it how will it work there no you see um as far as as far as the balance is concerned i think as aj has very rightly said it has been done very well we are getting a russian equipment and we are getting uh american support but please uh the way i've looked at it you see when i'm looking at the u.s russia relationship i don't see very major conflicts there it is not a cold war anymore i think the american interest by and large as far as their their military interest is there it has shifted completely now now they're looking at china very deeply and not so much at russia despite the fact that russia is still a very major technological and military power so i think as far as the americans are concerned they are very very uh keen to get along with india because india can add to the bulwark against china and when we went from the american point of view if i look at it specifically from the american point of view their biggest concern now is the south china sea and what china may do as far as the taiwan is concerned they don't want to get into a cross-strait crisis situation so if the if the regional powers are strong enough if taiwan japan and india are strong enough i think it acts as a detriment without uh the americans coming in in a big way so uh i think they're they're very concerned about that and when we are looking at the data which we are going to share there's one more point i would like to bring out it is not simply that we are going to get data from the americans in the indian ocean region i think we are maritime domain awareness is very high we have i think we are the only country which has got that uh the office in gurgaon which monitors all the ships which are going across there and many countries are on board as far as that office is concerned so we have also got our own strengths we have also got our own satellites and the americans can actually get into that data the indian ocean is a huge it's a very huge expanse so of the more countries that can share data onto this platform the hydrographic data i think it becomes important to us especially uh especially now because there is the threat of chinese submarines operating there and with this sort of system now coming in uh especially with biker coming in we will be able to determine where those submarines are and i think that is going to be very very important to us okay okay jayara from your point of view you know these are the impact of these foundational agreements on on the uh long-standing in the u.s uh you know defense cooperation yeah uh you know a debate on this subject from pre-india government days has what is what has delayed all these agreements people who are in the know say what used to be discussed between the indian and the american side was america india's concern about its policy of strategic autonomy of not giving basis to anybody of not having our own bases abroad not depending on other powers and the second was that if india shared data with the us the pakistanis may come to know because they also use similar american equipment then they used to say that perhaps it is of more benefit to the americans rather than the indians and since both america american and indian forces have carried out joint exercises their interoperability problems have been sorted out they have worked around the problems which are created so why is there a need of a formal agreement they used to say that you know what will russia think about us getting closer to america and lately there was concern that china may see india as becoming an american pivot in asia so these kind of arguments were the ones against signing of these agreements and particularly the logistics agreement was reworked out redrafted and renamed as well in becca also there is some drafting going on although they are standard foundational agreements the americans have signs with dozens of countries without any changes and they say this kind of discussion doesn't take place at such a high level as it has been happening between india and america but but there is a u.s legal framework they cannot impart with such technologies or data or logistic supplies or you know communication equipment or the use of this equipment or they cannot supply us with the hardware which carries such systems on board and although they have said that they have their systems in place by which it is assured that they will not share data with the pakistan or any other country well there is a doubt about it a reasonable doubt about it sometimes you needn't you may not be so careful and they also say that ad hoc arrangements in these things will not work for joint operability proper solutions and agreements are required and then they say there are lower costs for india if you don't have these agreements you have to pay every time for use of these systems facilities and so on so now as you see as pointed out already our level of cooperation is so high that in that facility in gurgaon the info fusion center of the indonesian region uh which dhruva has been mentioning an american laser officer is stationed there to get information about white shipping in the indian ocean and our indian liaison officer is present at the u.s navy central command to coordinate things uh so much of hardware as i mentioned we have acquired and there is a nexus developing between china and pakistan and is somewhat of a nexus developing between russia and china okay so this is the time when and uh you know corona virus has come at the at a time when indian thinking has also changed we are looking for partners against china and doing everything in our interest so this is one of those things which we are doing in our interest already the defense technology and trade initiative dtti with the americans has advanced so much uh that we have signed an sop in december 2019 by which we will develop jointly develop more and more weapon systems okay so the time has come the international security situation is such that it is in our interest to strengthen our relations with anybody who is against china and that's why this required thing is also gaining traction us is willing to provide high technology and uh you know what happens i'll tell you an incident when the indian forces go abroad for un operations or joint operability exercises they find that such equipment is being used which they can develop ourselves and it provides a philip to our industry they come back with the requirements can you imagine in one of these exercise they learned that one of the indian bangalore based companies that supplied an electro optics and night vision equipment to the american army uh and it was being used and that is how when they came back this company was told hey we are providing to the americans why don't you develop for india they said we never said no and so today we have night vision equipment from that company uh you know developed which is approved by darpa in the american army being used so there are many spin-offs to such cooperation okay okay definitely before we conclude this discussion let me have one quick comment from ajay here so you know would it be okay to say that with this agreement signed between both the nations one missing link between indo-us defense cooperation will be taken care of and a crucial link there of course we shall see as the other program has said these are the three foundational agreements the other two have been signed in the past half a decade and this will be signed expectedly time anytime now also keep in mind we have signed logistics agreement with the japanese industrials in the past two months they they again show a lot of change that we are very interested in the board and as general pointed out anybody who's ready to take on china we are ready to leave that thing and be very actively participating in that grouping now to get that the first technology agreement such foundation agreements are needed and azure he pointed out it has bridged the gap between what was missing and will change the dynamics for indian forces okay there it is thank you so much uh ajay for these views and uh similarly general katoch as well as jan laviara for sharing your time and making us and our viewers understand the importance of becca the agreement basic exchange and cooperation agreement between india and united states which is expected to be signed by both nations soon we'll come back again next week with a different topic till then keep watching majespa television [Music] you