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hey everybody is Jason Blaha here and today I thought I would chat with you guys a little bit about BMI and lifters and this is something that people talk about from time to time and I think it's something we do need to look at and address but this topic came up because I had a subscriber yesterday say that hey you know I think your strength standards are awful you're saying that you know people should be able to reach 405 deadlift in a year of serious training that that should be normal and I'm below that and I've been training for something like two years two and a half years whatever it was and his stats though I believe and I could be wrong he said he was something in the range of 6 foot 1 and 165 pounds so if you go look at a BMI chart you guys see where I'm gonna go with this he is in the normal healthy range this healthy range usually assumes you haven't gained a whole lot of muscle doesn't it and he might've even said he was 160 and I think that's what it was so we go look that's very squarely at a BMI of 21 in the middle of the healthy range now this healthy range usually assumes a person hasn't gained a lot of muscle and that they're at an average normal body fat you're probably somewhere in the range of 12 to 18 percent body fat you know for most men to be in that for your frame size again some people are gonna be a little higher or lower depending upon the size of their frame and everything else but this is assuming not a lot of muscle gain well if you have someone like that and I'm looking at it going well six foot one at 160 that's a twenty-one you know even if this guy gained 10 pounds of muscle at the same body fat from there he would be higher up 23 neared the higher end of the healthy range but here's the point I would make if you've gained all of your new gains you you're gonna have gained somewhere in the range of 15 to 20 pounds of muscle all right 15 to 20 pounds of muscle mass the taller you are the higher that's going to be the reason we give ranges for muscle gain is because a taller person has more muscle they have longer muscles they have more mass on them they're gonna have had the potential to gain more muscle through their entire life in other words if you took two people with similar genetics and structure ratios and one of them is 5 foot 6 and the other 6 foot 2 put them on the same program same amount of calorie surplus that the taller guy is gonna gain more total muscle right and it's gonna be more of a percentage of his muscle mass or a percentage of his body weight he's gonna weigh more he's got a bigger frame so that's why this stuff starts to matter but a guy who's over six foot tall should have gained 20 pounds of muscle if they trained correctly and hard their first year of training now a lot of people will say yeah but some of these charts show the people who are drug-free they stay very much in the higher end of the healthy range as long as they don't gain body fat even if they've been lifting right but here's the other thing how many people actually trained how many people actually train their entire body most people who go to the gym and workout don't do a great deal of work for their back end legs they probably do some but they don't gain do a lot of work there well those are the biggest muscles in your body so if a person puts all their focus on their chest and their shoulders and only a little bit of back working a little bit of leg work they might only gain 10 pounds of muscle right because you can't put 15 pounds onto your shoulders in your chest in your arms if you've done that you've probably had blasted pretty large amounts of drugs to gain that much muscle in those smaller areas those are not big muscles they don't have a lot of potential to put pounds and pounds on you but someone who's trained their entire body will very possibly have gained 20 plus pounds you know it's not unreasonable for them to gain especially he's over six foot tall to gain over 220 pounds someone who's shorter you know five five five six they might only gain 15 but if you look at the charts where does that place people all right if a guy is six foot one way and 160 is healthy normal that should be your starting point if they put 20 pounds on of solid muscle and you probably have to gain a little fat also a little bit of fat they're gonna weigh 180 that's gonna put them way further up the healthy range right way further up what do we say is a lifetime expected gain for someone who's been training for years and is maximize their potential 25 to 30 pounds of muscle yeah if you've pretty much maxed out your frame size ask I you know under six foot 25 pounds of muscle isn't unreasonable guy over 6 foot 30 pounds of muscles pretty reasonable for 5 plus years of hard training well now you take that over what happens to your your guy who starts at 160 it's 6 foot 1 if he's gained 30 pounds of solid muscle and then stayed at the same body fat and he's gained no body fat his percentage will have gone down he will actually be leaner on a body composition scale well he's going to be 190 at that point all right so you take your same six foot one guy that's now overweight even though he's technically leaner on a body composition that's overweight what I would suggest you that most people if you have maximized your potential and you are staying in the healthy body fat range meaning you're probably not going over about 15 percent body fat you're gonna be in the yellow on this chart you're gonna be in the overweight BMI and that's drug free that's drug free and then if anyone has added other stuff in the past where they followed maybe some extreme training they might even be higher they might even be higher in my case again I have have used a little bit of stuff in the past I'm auntie Artie now and I've maintained I'm probably above my natural limit for my frame well you guys saw my decks to scan I'm 5 foot 9 and I have a hundred eighty-two pounds of lean body mass that was my fat free mass if you stripped all the fat off of me and put me to zero body fat magically I would still 182 according to my exes again that puts me in like 26 and a half I would be overweight if I die all my fat disappeared and you take someone like me even at 10 percent body fat you figure that would be what about another 18 pounds I'd probably be 200 pounds that puts me at the very top of the overweight almost obese now here's the problem that's one reason I'm actually going to slowly keep dropping weight down when you start getting into the obese category even if you're relatively lean again we start seeing BMI of 30 plus and again this is something I need to be concerned with you know for me that basically means 205 plus I'm technically considered obese even if I was at 10% or lower body fat weight lifters need to think about in terms of that is are there potential health risks to that yeah there are potential health risks to carrying too much muscle also there's potential health risks to too much muscle is it the same as too much fat absolutely not because we know things like muscle mass gaining 5 or 10 pounds of muscle actually reduces your chances of developing cancer that's a perfect example being having too much fat increases your chances of gaining of having cancer so things like cancer stuff like that this doesn't hurt you if it's muscle gain but you know if we start talking about long term cardiovascular risk and things well maybe so it may not be healthy to walk around at a BMI of 30 plus even if you're lean but what people need to remember you can't really compare that you can't really compare that to someone who's a BMI 30 plus at 30% body fat and that's the difference that's what you need to remember there's an enormous difference in terms of things like diabetes cancer stuff like that this 30 plus though again potential for some heart risk and everything but the thing is the majority of people are not going to hit a 30 plus the majority of people who are going to read BMI of 30 plus even one at a healthy body fat have generally used some sort of anabolics in the past so this is why we might look at this and say is this still potentially correlated with cardiovascular disease yeah because you probably used some drugs that might have had some cardiovascular risk factors to push your muscle mass up to people don't really hit the obese category at under 15% body fat completely clean right lifetime clean doesn't really happen maybe there's a few genetic outliers so I mean this ad isn't an automatic accusation say that person must have used drugs but it's pretty probable it's a it's a safe bet if you're a betting man and gonna put your money on it it's a safe bet at that point it's a safe bet because for example you take like my protein eco Ella who I would say is probably about as big and as lean as a person can get drug-free at the limits and he is a genetic freak he's one about 510 he walks around around 195 I'd say offseason like that he's probably about 12% body fat right ballpark ballpark that puts him at 28 that puts him at the high end of the overweight at a relatively lean body weight but then he drops down to something I think like 180 for his contests so that puts him further down into the overweight but he stays in this yellow he isn't that overweight category and he's pretty much maximized his frame I don't think he could get bigger I don't think a genetically gifted natural is gonna get any bigger than he is for their frame all right let's just be realistic so the BMI chart can tell us a lot but the thing is I will tell you unless you are ultra lean here's my point you're not gonna be in the healthier range if you've gained significant muscle mass this green chart you're gonna be in the overweight but if you stay in the overweight the yellow and your lean relatively lean you're just as good as being too healthy but when we start hitting that thirty plus that's where you run into potential risk but I will tell people unless you are ten percent lower body fat less you're pretty damn Bleen with a deep six-pack if you are not into the twenty five plus on the overweight you have not even come close to maximizing your muscular potential you very possibly haven't even finished out your noob gains and you very probably can put another 5 to 10 muscle pounds of muscle on your frame completely clean over the next few years at that point so the BMI again is useful for telling us that hey maybe we aren't really at our muscular potential but it can still be indicative of some health risk as well when we start looking at the upper thresholds of it but I will tell guys though if you are still in that green area and you think that you have trained really hard and gained a ton of muscle if you're not walking around at 10 percent body fat or less you probably haven't gained as much muscle as you think you have and you have a long way to go and that's why you might be weak on a strength standards chart when you start looking even at body weight all right guys but that's really all I have to say'll not today I hope it's been informative and I will talk to you guys next time