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speaking of letters of recommendation what what advice you have for applicants around that about professors versus employers or other people out there like a random friend of a friend who's a senator or something like that right and gosh that random friend of a friend who's a senator is the question I probably get the most way for me to say no because listen unless it's Barack Obama who you know I'm not buddies but if I were I might have him write me a letter of recommendation it's really the person who knows you and can speak to your academic ability I think sometimes applicants jump right over a law school when they're thinking about it and had right to their career and they're forgetting that they're applying to an academic institution and that institutions first goal before it makes you a lawyer is to have you be a successful student and so it really wants to know if you can perform in the classroom and so for many candidates some schools require two letters be academic or strongly encouraged as that other schools are a little more relaxed but I think that the academic letters actually can't carry the most weight for many schools especially the more prestigious schools of course if you've been out of school for a very long time it may not be feasible or even possible and the people who can speak to your abilities may be your employer's so of course you have to use your judgment on that one but I think many people forget about the academic side and how important it is so I always look first for the really strong academic recommendations on that again like someone might say oh well I know the chair of the department and I say yes but does she know you you know it's the professor from whom you took classes even if she's an associate professor or an assistant professor even it doesn't matter it's the professor who knows your work and understands your ability and could speak to you personally that makes a lot of sense the personal connection of course would be the most compelling I would think but let's say an applicant they've you know they're towards the end of college but they're not going to apply to law school for a few years and they're worried that the professor might not remember them by that point because it's it's let's say it's three to five years later hmm would you have any advice for someone in terms of maintaining a connection with the professor or saying some sort of prep to supply them with appropriate materials to write a letter yeah I mean letters need to be fresh so you can't just procure our letters now I think that would be a little strange but what you can't do is say hey Professor X I'm planning to apply to law school in a couple of years I'd be so grateful if you could write me a positive letter of recommendation and then the professor would say oh yes I'd be thrilled or maybe you should ask someone else or in whatever place way to decline so I think it's definitely worth having that conversation and if you've had that then you know you just stay in touch it's not that hard to stay in touch I went to college a long time ago so it was a little different than but you know with social media and social networking platforms you know old-fashioned email I think it's not too hard to be in touch with someone once or twice a year just to keep that relationship alive and then you know on that sort of refreshing thing I always encourage applications even if it's just been a few months to say hey professor X you know I took this class with you I did this project and I really enjoyed learning this I'm applying to law school right jog his or her memory because of course that professor is teaching dozens or maybe hundreds of students a year so even if it's a recent professor you definitely helped him or her out I love that idea just even like once or twice a year to stay on their radar in some way I can translating into you know increased molarity and freshness when it does come time to actually write that letter even if it's a few years later absolutely I mean I think people can be intimidated by keeping in touch with someone but there's really no reason right there's no reason this is someone who does like you and appreciate you as a student and so I mean I wouldn't bombard him with your Instagram every day but you know a little a little relationship can also it's also not the most important professor it's the one that maybe you you have the closer relationship with it's not status it's relationship because that's the person who can say my best students and all the years I've taught right not the one who says Oh her GPA was this and I know she wrote a senior thesis that's not helpful to you at all and it's the same thing with professional recommendations right you don't need the CEO of the company you mean you're usually your direct supervisor and it's great to have a and if a friend of a friend who's a judge but not not really unless you worked for that judge right law schools aren't really gonna care because they're gonna know the person doesn't know you if the letter is somewhat generic yeah that's pretty obvious and so just not helpful and if it's not helpful it's hurtful so don't do it yeah what about so let's say we're talking professor professors you want to choose a professor you presumably got a good grade in that class and you're asking them for the letter but let's say your overall GPA in college wasn't high maybe you had a lot of required classes in math or science and you're more of a humanities pre-law kind of person which I think most applicants are what what do you recommend for someone who just has this low GPA do you recommend maybe selecting out the in major GPA because it looks better or is it not worth playing any of those games um I don't think it's a game to say in your personal statement or even on your resume listing the in major GPA schools are looking at that compiled GPA that they get and then report but because of that yes definitely I mean I had a I had a good friend in college he was a pre-med and then later she decided to go to law school her grades definitely were not as high as mine but she of course rightly pointed out too in her application succinctly and not the laboring point but you know pointed out that in her course is you know a C was an average whereas in my courses the scene was definitely not an average as a philosophy major