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this this role sort of what I do is I teach people how to sell things and where I have been in the direct sales job for many years so for the last five years it's been as a trainer basically and this is basic sales and it's super easy sales because you know what you're talking about you don't have to go out and learn some complicated product in the interest of quickness I'm just gonna start going through a few basic ideas one look the part for wherever you're going if you're going to the Columbus Metropolitan Club presentation or whatever the female version of that would be right I would wear a suit and so the in the if you're going to the truth March or whatever it was you know jeans and team 10 shoes you're gonna be marching around the Capitol and and it's a good idea to wear something that identifies who you are so then if you're going to a candidate's events I wouldn't wear this at a candidate's event I would wear something more appropriate for the candidates event you know it depends on what kind of event is so just think about I want to fit in their dress that way that may seem obvious but if you're not in sales you may not even think about that you may just show up as whoever you are and then you know you then you think oh geez I don't I'm not dressed for the occasion and that's gonna make you feel less confident confidence is important in sales so the next thing is where do you position yourself well that depends if it's a giant roving networking room you're probably going to walk around and talk to people if there are people at booths in other words they're with a bunch of booths set up don't forget you can talk to the people who set up the booths to you go up and you give them a chance to talk to you about whatever they're doing and then you well that's very interesting let me take some information by the way have you heard about the pro truth pledge which is the generic approach in my opinion you if you have this with you I mean again depending on the environment this may not be appropriate maybe the business cards are more appropriate I'm always going to try to have if possible the actual actual signup sheet because the call to action is sign this right so you want to take a sign-up sheet you could even fold one up and stick it in your hip pocket it doesn't have to be pretty right it just has to be available when they say you know that's really interesting great why don't you sign it right in other words are you bluffing me I mean you're gonna sign this right so if the other thing that comes in here which for those of you don't have one yeah is a list of this is what's on the back of the business cards except it's a little easier to read right and what I'm going to do when I want to talk to somebody is I mean who wants to play I just want to mention that we actually have fliers that go in the pockets then are like a special and this has the website at the bottom is just much smaller yeah so people can I've got this with me again doesn't make a huge difference because this is this does have the information you need on it exactly that little thing you take the picture so who wants to interact who's gonna roleplay with yeah so Michael I'm gonna strike up a conversation of some sort with you it's easier to strike to do this if you're already talking to somebody in other words if this is not if the first thing you say to them is have you heard about the protrude ledge it works but it's awkward so the better thing to do is to find some reasons to say a few words it doesn't have to be you know a five minute conversation before you bring it up but just something to let them hear your voice see your mannerisms and feel comfortable with you generally speaking it depending on you if you if you have an opportunity to observe people if they are more dressed up and more rigid don't stand next to them don't touch them that's a very quick version of disk which we had a conversation about if they are the dominant type personality don't stand next to them don't touch touch them stand across from them and you can offer to shake their hand but don't do this I don't even know if your ID but if that makes him uncomfortable so and and by the way people who are too in power positions tend to be high dominant personalities so that's just a general easy one you can you if you can identify the dominant don't touch him don't stand next to him except for a handshake don't hug so if there's a booth if they are presenting their product or whatever they're pitching behind the booth talk to them about their products let them engage with you it gives you plenty of time to build a rapport with them and if they're sitting on the you know in the in the park watching somebody give a speech which is what I did at the March is why you guys were talking I was going around sitting down next to people and saying what do you think of this and then you know I had my book with me I've always walked off with it like this I wasn't anything but they would start talking to me whatever you can do to get them talking talk about their dog talk about their kid if they you know whatever is available as a crop to get a conversation going and then you can very quickly say you know what do you hear for today or whatever well I'm here about the pro truth pledge have you heard about the pro truth pledge and that's your conversation starter every sales pitch comes with a conversation starter in my line of work it's how are you going to spend this money or you know how much are you saving annually you know there's there's different ways that you can start a conversation that leads to what you want to talk about well have you heard about the pro truth pledge now there are two answers to that question right what would one of those answers be no shorter on the tree so let's go with yes first it's just a no all I'm saying is all I'm saying is I don't think I want to answer the yes price because it's shorter so if he says yes I heard about that I'd say oh great have you signed because just because he's heard about it doesn't mean he signed and maybe I'm the second or third person that's talked to him about this and maybe I'm the guy that's gonna actually get him to sign maybe he hasn't done so yet maybe he has or hasn't had a chance to look up the website maybe the first person to talk to him wasn't as effective as I might be so the first thing I'm gonna say if he says yes is have you signed that's great have you signed and if not if he if he says no I said do you have any questions about it because most of the people I've been talking to if in sign right because that's a other in sales that's other people that I talk to have these concerns maybe you would have this concern too right so I'm making it not canned but it's it's basically a process of setting up a sales conversation that you use with every single sales process so if it's yes have they signed if they haven't signed do they have questions what can i if you feel comfortable saying so what can I help you understand to get you to sign I have the thing right here you can sign right ask for the sale ask for the act the call to action so to speak in other words what you want is the signature on the page how do we get there and they just ask them how maybe they have an objection he had one earlier how are you guys gonna pull this off right so we'll get to that next for the other answer is no I haven't heard about it and what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna hold this out so he can see that it's about the pro truth pledge I'm gonna open it up and I'm gonna pull one of the summaries out and I'm gonna hand it to him because it's much more comfortable for him to look at that than me while I'm talking if he doesn't have to engage with me socially he's more likely to actually listen to me because if I'm looking at you in the eyes and I'm talking you're thinking about nodding and smiling and I'm gonna say basically the pro truth pledge is a movement to attempt to return honesty just basic honesty to media and politics and what we're trying to do is start at the grassroots with normal everyday folks like you and me and if we can get enough of us to sign the pledge and to follow these tenets and to be honest in our just everyday activities which honestly I already am and I assume you already are this isn't really hard it's not like you're gonna have to go out of your way to do this I don't really know but it's it makes him feel comfortable and not threatened for me to assume it accept not mean it has to be a spoken assumption right I assume you're an honest guy it makes him think oh great he's not attacking me for dishonesty which is but that's a big deal in what we're talking about because everybody feels attacked these days politically right so I assume you're already doing these things what we're trying to do is to get those folks like you and me that are always already doing these things to sign up and say I want to do these things I want other people to do these things and I want my media and my political representatives to do these things too to be honest right and what I'm what if we can get enough people I don't know what political district you are but let's say your district 12 if we can get enough people in district 12 to sign up we can take that list of people here's 5,000 names in your area wouldn't it be nice to have 5,000 in one district that would be effective right that's the goal if we can take 5,000 names or whatever number to a candidate whether it's an incumbent or a challenger and say we have this many people that want you to sign this pledge these are these are people that are your constituents and they want you to can't say voters because we don't really know that I never asked him if he was a voter did I but we can say these are your constituents and we they want you to sign this pledge part of them signing the pledge was they want you to sign the pledge they want you to be honest and truthful that's the leverage for trying to put in place and I think that kind of answers your question earlier because that's that's it it's really that simple now there's lots of little mechanisms for making it happen and different ways to get people to sign in different ways to get the attention of the politicians the media that we're trying to leverage but essentially all we're trying to do is get enough people to sign that make the politicians pay attention because there's I am no political expert but I've heard before there are only two things politicians care about money and votes and we may think that money's more important but that's not what actually gets them in office it's the votes and if we can get enough people in their district that say they want to be honest maybe we can actually make them almost now I'm going to go straight to the most common objection I get and I'm gonna bring he doesn't have to there is a rule in sales don't bring up an objection your client doesn't have because then you just handed him a projection right that maybe he hadn't even thought of and if he doesn't think of it now he's gonna think of it because this is a really easy one well how are you gonna deal with somebody who lies or at the risk of being political the most common way I hear that voiced is well you're never gonna get Donald Trump to sign this I write and I say nah we don't we don't think that's going to happen what we'd like to do is return enough political honest culture to the conversation that Donald Trump doesn't get elected maybe somebody that is more honest that represents his views yeah I agree getting someone who has his same view I'm not saying that the bonus I'm sorry I'm saying that the dishonesty is the problem if they're a supporter of Donald Trump they wouldn't have said it that way we should have a laundry list of objections from different types of so what you what you're looking to do is get across how we're not trying to get the existing framework to change try to think of the you can't get you can't get a something to change its colors there's a saying I can't think of it off the top of my head thank you Tyger Tyger and whatever you get the idea you're not going to change the guys that are already in there and already have got lied so many times this isn't going to work for them as a political leverage point with with the voters but you can get those people out of office and get people in who are honest regardless of their political perspective right now I'm going to bring that up right off the bat because again that's the most common objection I've heard it's and it's easy to answer now the other thing is I'm going to say at that point is you know I have a sign-up sheet right here what do you think of this I'm pointing out I have a sign-up sheet right here this is where I'm headed what do you think of this because I want to know what's in between him and signing it right so go ahead and this is for all of you I'll start with you because you have it did I answer your objection come earlier your question about how are we going to make this work what's what's the what's the mechanism for making people honest in politics and media or was that not quite the question well how are you going to fight that as somebody I believe Goebbels said the more you the people who screens of hosts will usually win the argument if you say a lie enough times loud enough then we'll be able believe and how much money will it take when you can't find out how much money is being spent for this guy right because I've asked candidates before well how much money was donated to you what's a secret as is who gave it to him that's right and is one candidate recently as I'm just going to take the witness office to get Tiberius office up there you said I'm taking million dollars one minor office somebody's going to spend that we don't know that we're going to have to spend that kind of money my answer is just a guide collecting signatures my my approach that I always tried to distance myself from the leadership in the organization when I answer these questions I do not want to represent the leadership of the organization if they want really super detective questions I want to put him in contact with the leadership of the organization because if he's asking good questions and he likes the answers he might end up at this table right so I'm always gonna say you know just as a guy out here collecting signatures not leadership of the organization the way I understand it is that we're trying to get the grassroots push if we remember it's media and politicians if we can get enough people pushing from the bottom up we can get the media to do things and that doesn't cost any money at all necessarily if their constituents want to hear this they want the eyeballs and the ears on their advertisements they're gonna report it right so that's we're trying to get attention by having a mass movement that's why we need guys like you to sign that's a soft clothes by the way that's why we need guys like you to sign so that we can have a lot of people involved you don't have to have all these techniques that I've learned over last 30 years you just have to have a conversation and I make it sound easy I hear this all the time in training when you make it sound easy I went and tried it wasn't that easy no but if you do it a bunch of times it gets easy the trick in sales is not feeling bad about yourself when somebody doesn't sign or doesn't buy it or whatever you just have to keep doing it and before you know it you're pretty good at it doesn't take very long years he uses the field approach I know how you feel I felt that way before also but I have found out that and you can also you can use the same field pound approach with other people that I've talked to I know how you feel other people I've talked to talk to you have felt that as well or better yet other people who have signed up spelt that as well I just thought about correcting that in my head as I went through a long you know because they found that it doesn't you know one of the things that oh that's never gonna work that's an objection that I get okay why not well you're never gonna get the beads kind of the stuff he was talking about is usually the answer and I say well let me ask you this is it really gonna make any difference to you to put your name behind us and let us try to push if we don't try it's not gonna work right we don't even try there's no way it's gonna work well we're gonna try it all we need you to raise your name to add to the list that that guy who says it's never gonna work it's gonna be hard to get at this table so now I'm all I'm trying to do is get him aside right just let us use your name look beyond the list what other objectors also I probably uh maybe money wallets like does have a big impact in things sometimes it's not the only factor right you could do it I you could say what I said earlier which there's two things politicians care about its money and folks and right that's how grassroots movements make things happen in politics is there boats behind it right right like even if some like somebody like spends all like a million dollars to keep some guy in office like by like pumping all like like advertising and or whatever like that doesn't necessarily mean it'll work if people are learning like to not like trust sort of things people spend a lot of money to get into office way more than their opponents and they lose all the time right I would also say that like exactly yeah and also like like if money dominated everything all the time then things would look really different I think because then like our information would that we were getting would not be like able to be relied upon at all let's get a lot of objections I I apologize we're running short on time okay so just one thing I want to point out Harry you want to really avoid getting into an argument all right don't argue so yeah like what you're doing great that was getting into an argument you want to see your back focus focus always on the signal right the easiest way to think about it is what's the shortest point a conversation that I can go from his objection to him signing right don't don't get into a big argument about how the world works or how politicians think you know it's the easiest one answer for that one is all we really need more people if we could get enough people and we can go to a politician whether they're an incumbent or a candidate and say we have all these people in your district that are your constituents that want you to be honest and they they signed this and in part of signing it as they want you to sign it you'll get their attention or you won't but their other guy though I give these out they have the same information yeah I see there's a lot of information on here whatever works but again and if I have this with me I'm gonna hand them this probably I could you can have them both you can stick cards in there too either way let's go back to objections on the Internet I promoted the pledge in the comment section and a response from a guy who said I don't I don't this was did you get any more information about what he meant by that because I have one idea because there's an objection I've gotten now they don't want to answer it with that's not because I don't know what well let me give you a couple boxes let's try to interpret that the first thing I would do in that scenario is says really that's interesting what do you mean in other words show interest in the person and then don't just ask them what do you mean because you gotta put tone into text right and if you're in person that doesn't matter you still want to that's very interesting what do you mean I don't quite understand how what that means now I'll give you a interpretation but I got well at the second most student alliance of that which is I don't want to put a litmus test on my candidates in other words if my candidate tells a lie I don't want to not have there have to not vote for him if I still think he's a better candidate than the other guy which is an assumption that I think is incorrect if my candidate tells a lie and I still think that candidates more likely to do what I wanted to do than the other guy still gonna vote for him I just wish they hadn't told the lie and I'm gonna give him a hard time about that which leads to well how are you gonna give them a hard time about that are we just going to call them out in public no so you go through the prep you explain the process if we're going to contact the candidate behind the scenes and ask them [Music] to understanding how the process on our website if you go to purchase blood organ scroll to the bottom there's an FAQ which is extraordinarily detailed and if you have a jump of time that would be the only answer is also in the binder there's one so any about how any of this works or is enforced it's very very detailed or you can always ask bleb or I or dominoes and at that point use a video on YouTube yeah that I watch you went there we have lots of resources and if you have the opportunity to canvass with another person do it in take turns you know one person talks to one person the other person listens and then you flip sides and you can also give advice afterwards constructive criticism of course when you said that I could see your body language shift you know whatever so maybe this way would be a better way to say it work with each other to build your your capabilities your practice right but the the litmus test one I thought was a very good objection so you just tell me you can still vote for him if you you don't have to you taking the pledge doesn't say you can't vote for somebody who tells lie it just says you wish they hadn't and you're trying to get them not to that's what we're trying to do so what are their objections if you think of an objection that's the easiest way for me to do this well the one you mentioned well what happens if you catch somebody lying okay so then you go into the process of yeah yeah they took the pro truth pledge so what we're gonna do is we're gonna go to them behind the scenes we don't want to out the person who appropriate pledge for telling a lie when maybe they didn't even realize it was a lie so we're gonna go to the behind the scenes and we're gonna say here's a bunch of information about this thing you said and this is why we think that's not true and by the way they can come back and convince us we're wrong there's no true arbiter of truth right we're going to go back and forth we're going to go to the sources that we think are the most expert we're going to you know and there's mechanisms for this we're gonna have a conversation with that person and in the end we're either gonna say no we think you lied and they're gonna take it back or we're gonna say publicly I'm just I'm sorry to think you lied you know this was something called out on this and most of the time they're going to probably retract their their pledge one of the things I've done is I've said this is a supportive activity not a god check we're trying we're trying to support honesty yes all right because I've been asked always ask is this a gotcha I said no there's basically three components you commit to telling the truth if you can't cite your sources or back it up you stated as your opinion and the third component is if you make a mistake you retract and there's no gotcha component to this because someone asked me well how much is this like Grover Norquist and is no tax increase you know the litmus test and I said it's not at all this is just just about society calming down by everyone committing to be more honest with each other and we're hoping the collett issues will use being a signer in good standing so to speak as I have an objection so like I'm married to globe here and he sometimes goes to a business meeting and puts on a suit and he says how do I look and it's like three minutes before he has to grab at door and whether or not I agree with Sky's choices I can't afford like at this point do I need to like affect my relationship and make him late and upset and say that like that tie really clashes with your outfit no part of signing this pledge because it was just way too much work and your plan just pretty stupid if I have to do that well while I'm sure glug would appreciate the advice that's wearing a horrific time with this suit I certainly understand what you're saying we're not talking about little white lies you know our relationships along we're talking about obvious mistruths let me pick one that does have some political weight on it and say if you are saying that anthropogenic climate change is not a thing that's gonna be a problem for us right so you can say we shouldn't do anything about it well that's an opinion we're not talking about opinions and by the way he asked you for your opinion we're talking about things that we can demonstrate prove true or false and that's that's really it and that's an excellent objection and I would also add that it's only relates to public speech if we're having a private business meeting that we'll never get out which might help some folks in the business community sign it yeah that like if you're come when you put something that's like you know climate change is not happening but if we're standing over coffee had a water cooler it's not public speech so it only applies to public speech and it's really quite limited we want people to feel like it's exciting because we're fighting for honesty and truth I'm quite a nice but we only doing a subset of things just to make sure it's doable and feasible we're not doing like we're not running after another version of that that I've heard is do I have to call out my friends on Facebook and the answer's no you don't have to I do but I have fewer friends because of it tonight what I tell people to do is what I use well on the days I choose to be adult ask what led you to that statement can you tell me what back so that's an excellent way to and I gotta tell you it works extremely well because what happens routinely is those who are on the sidelines during the conversation they'll start jumping in when they see all there's actually a way out of this to deal with and they'll say yeah what did lead you to say that and I've had that happen more than once and that's all you gotta say is what led you to this statement what bet what backs it up that's it is is this an anti-trump thing no it's it's nonpartisan we're just trying to return the truth and honesty to both media which by the way is somewhat more effective and talking to conservatives I think because they have a serious issue with media so I say both media and politicians we want honesty it doesn't matter if we disagree we just have to agree on a set of facts before we can move forward on that step on what needs to be done it's pledge the eyeball get facts are good yeah but we didn't call it the contacts pledge because it would not be safe which is true but if you go through all the fine print it's really just mainly focuses on the facts the difference between opinions like your shred was great or not that's an opinion so if we focus on the facts one thing I noticed when people were signing for his presentation they went to fill it fill out that and they said why do you need money why do you need my address that's an excellent segue into the signature portion which I'm going to watch and I'm gonna hand them the pen and I'm gonna hold the document for standing so that they don't have to they're gonna hold it also but I'm gonna help them hold it steady if the two of us are holding it that's more likely that they're gonna easy time doing their gonna get a date well that's really easy right name I know my name email why do you want my email address well we need to be able to get in contact with you if we can't read your name or your address we need your address so we can tell what what political districts you're at right and we need your email address in case we can't read this which is also why we need your phone number now you can choose not to be contacted but you know we are tweets know if I'm in a democratic event I always say we're not like the Ohio Democratic Party you're not gonna get six emails a day from experience I haven't been to a Republican event but I probably could come up with with the same kind of thing right I mean surely the Republican Party sends out lots of emails just like the Democrats so you know I'm gonna say I'm gonna say we're not like a political party we're not gonna we're not gonna be emailing you constantly but we would have a newsletter we have important things that are happening that we'd like you to know about maybe somebody interesting signs you know you can you can go to our Facebook page we're going to talk about the social media this book if that's not on here but you can go to the Facebook page and you can see what's going on and who's signing and interesting stuff is happening here this is a happening organization so does that answer your gonna guarantee me that this list that you're collecting all of us signer it will never be sold giving out or exchanged with somebody else without my knowledge well it's public well sure this information was I'm answer I'm answering carefully so that you that I'm sure that I'm not lying to you because what I want to know why I want you to know is this is going to be on a website is public information so ya know I can be wrong just your name and where you live like your address okay will study and your social media if you give social media so if you sign the website you can give social media Facebook page or Twitter or something like that excellent distinction so I can share this with anybody no no no no I said yes okay in other words we're sharing we're sharing we have to we have to have it out there to prove that we have these be correct myself we will be sharing this with politicians who will be saying do you really have my district you know how many people from my district do you have and then we give them a list saying here are the people from your district you know name no email address so that that will be the vacant confirm that yes so they could confirm that so for example the way we get Michael stanziano to sign was the way we sent him here are the number of people in Columbus quote signed up road trip pledge here are their addresses I mean that the same way it works like petitions in general that's how politicians are able to know that their constituents are actually what their constituents actually want and it is not just someone like putting something we're not going to sell this to P&G for instance so this is the answer the question is yes it would be shared with politicians pretty political and I'm not into politics what do you mean by that it sounds like you're really interested politicians when we want everybody to be honest we have to start at the grassroots and use signing hopefully will motivate you I'll be honest I find the the fact that I've signed us it makes me think much harder about what I say in social media for instance so in that sense it's making me more honest or more careful about being correct as the way I would put it and we want media and politicians that's that's kind of our upward target is media and Paul we have to start at the grassroots level [Laughter] players just the last thing that I just said about it it sounds like you're only interested in politics actually what I heard from him mmm so what kind of power do you have if somebody does like who's checking up on that what do you do and a lot of times this would be in the car and I would have just read something that glad had posted or whatever I'm telling him about it when he asked me a question and I'm like I don't know but I'm gonna research it and I can get back to you I knew it this so that's how we've learned a lot that's a that's an excellent answer particularly if you have the opportunity to get back to people and somebody you know the easiest thing to do is to say I don't know but there's smart people that have worked on this I'll bet you they have an answer I'll go find it I'll get it for you depending on where you are in Columbus you might say well there's a reason that you know the Columbus council member Michael Spence you know Pro tems find it which is by the way it leads to an objection that we hadn't talked about which I almost forgot about which is well who is signing this so far and you can talk about the what are we fifty two hundred now okay so fifty three hundred off just round up so you know we're up to fifty three hundred people plus and I carry at the beginning this is probably this one a list of people who you might even know yeah so Blizzard you have to secondly there's organizations where we are on the word so that's the custom list yeah I need to get I think we should have I assume we do have and not ask this question yet but just a generic list of big names we do kind of in the emails here's the way I look at it I don't mind fringing three or four pages in fact that looks better when I pull it out if there's three or four pages of big-name people I also don't mind handing somebody who may not like Steven Pinker or to pick a really crazy name like Richard Dawkins let's say yes so you know when it comes right down to it a lot of the names that have signed that might be you know somebody if they knew who they were was gonna be a problem so what I wanted is a whole bunch of names and what I want them to do is skim down the list and go oh wait I know that guy yay you know I wanted to find the one that they do think that the guy that is on the list that they recognize that they disagree with that's good that he's on the list right call him out if he lives that's what we're for we're here to help you with that sure this list you know this petition that you have to chew okay these people have anything on that list that shows what organization they may belong to I'm thinking of giving this here list out here to people I know and they look at the very top and see the atheist alliance of America all right yeah remember that was a specialized list oh you do so that's what I wanted to prove so secular atheist groups which is why that was created for us we just I would be worried just say my god I mean I do people go desert these are their names on this right so you're filtering it out some of these names that you're not gonna put out here to say yes we're going to show you a cross-section of the people you don't like the pick any kind of off-the-wall proof that may you know upset people Indonesia they don't want anyone there yes back to my question is you're going to publish my name someplace right so you know some people agreed to have their names published and these people we specially contact their public figures and we asked them when we're doing if you're canvassing by the way ask them hey you're a public figure you know they are if there are candidates if there are media personality if they're in an organization that their name might be recognized ask them hey you're a public figure can we contact you about having you on the public figures list and some most of the candidates say yes automatically the two that I've got the sign but then you know that's a good thing for them to be on that list and hopefully the other people want their organization more known and to get the word out right who wouldn't want to be associating their organization with truth so yeah most of those people step right up and they're like yeah I'm gonna hope I figure that's what I do go ahead and list yes I'm already honest why do I need to sign something to show that I'm honest that's an excellent point what we really need is honest people like you to put your name on the list so we can go use that as leverage to get people who aren't always honest to be honest you know that were a grassroots yeah organization and there's power in numbers exactly the more people that we can get to sign the more people will have to promote truth well and that's I'm kind of adding mine on to what I've said before yes that's the mechanism and and essentially the answer to that is explain the mechanism and explain that we need your name to it to create that mass effect I like that story about the environmental woman in the sixties oh rachel karz other objections were we've run over time and I apologize but other objections feel free to email me or contact me so one of the common objections I've heard is maybe some super calm like when people like think of it like it's like often difficult for some people to know how to answer it so the last things like well how well how do you know that the scientific consensus is reliable or like how do you know the fact checkers are being honest that's an excellent question I mean when it comes right down to it we have to trust in the scientific process we go to the relevant experts and if we're having a conversation with buddy who is disagreeing with us on this point they get to tell us why you know they're a set of experts right in the end we're gonna have to come to a conclusion of some sort but it really isn't well ours people make it out to be it's why there's peer review what makes something scientific is one person can't say it it's which is true but I don't want to get too detailed into how science works I thought you were getting too complicated okay I think it's simpler to say it only makes it into science if a bunch of people repeat it I actually wrote a blog post that sort of comprehensively answered that question but it's called boolean value belief versus probabilistic beliefs and their relationship to the accountability of scientists and fact-checkers and it goes into detail like the answer to that question let me let me argue with you a little bit on that it doesn't matter how science works to answer that objection because what they're what is their underlying concern their underlying concern isn't whether or not science works they say they think science works but they think science can be scientific process scientific arguments can be used against their interests and what we want to say is that their interests will have a voice in the process that's that's my personal opinion in us in other words in the end in this process we're going to be having a conversation with a person who's been called out and that's what I'm trying to get across I don't want to get into how science works maybe they are smarter about how science works than I am I'm in sales science but I'm in sales so I don't necessarily know all the answers to that what I do know is how this process works and that's what I want to talk about so I'm going to avoid getting into discussing peer-review I may have even gotten in more debt answering it the first time but my point is what you really want to do is what is their concern and how and I think in that scenario that objection their concern is generally going to be that their side of the argument is going to have science used against it unfairly and the way that happens all the time is it's not a conversation it's it's a call out we live in a call out culture of these days upon somebody yelling out to the world that guy lied instead of having a conversation with you about it usually through social media so what percent so do we have any like statistically what percentage of people like distrust scientific consensus for the person objecting your voice isn't going to get crushed that's gonna be part of the overall conversation that's that's what I'm trying to say okay is that is that the person that we're talking to about what we think is a lie we're having a conversation with them and they're going to have an opportunity to say no it's not and if it's not they can convince us it's not they can give us if we're science it's new information all the time it could be just said they've received misinformation also and they don't realize it it's not true or that we took what they said differently guys a little stranded yeah well unless you know for sure that they deliberately lied yeah I mean if you're using the temperature thing if it's 75 out you're saying it's 70 that's an obvious one but the a lot of these things are not that simple purpose of convincing after signing right and always lead back to that's why we need your help we need we you know here's the thing we want you to sign do you ever run off the list of the fact-checking sites to hand out to people it's a very frequently asked questions it's an epic are there any other objections dancing around libel and slander here in some cases mm-hmm I don't believe both of those not a lawyer but I listen to opening arguments podcast I stayed in the holiday and experts yeah if I'm not mistaken it has to be factually incorrect for it to qualify for either one of those things if you say something about somebody just actually true you can make a mistake we've heard of discussed here sharks are you from honorable you said oh I made a mistake right but somebody could intentionally mislead you which by saying something that pad thai berries a wired because such as such and so so wow you know that's and we're not just gonna go on the reporters features the person who reports its facts we're gonna go do our own research I mean if somebody broke in the so we're not yelling out yeah I'm using colloquialism there but that's uh probably much you should you should practice those phrases that's I'm gonna write use that phrase it's a violation it's a good point because what I run into is people's inability to distinguish between an objective failure of fact versus an argument on homing them so rather than saying that's incorrect it's you're lying bastard and what I'm noticing from the bit of talking I'm doing a lot of people do not know how to tease those apart very well I mean come either made for most of us here that's an obvious separation but I tend to run into a commingling I ran into a commingling that if I say someone is factually incorrect I'm calling them a liar versus what Duff is trying to say is to know all we're trying to focus is on is what are the facts in this situation we're gonna leave you alone of all the information correct that whether or not it's intentional or not if someone like repeatedly misrepresents the facts on an issue even after being told even after the mistake you pointed out like multiple times and they have access to information that would show them their mistake and they're still saying this stuff like whether or not it's intentional or not they're still sane spreading this information they're demonstrating themselves to not be a reliable trustworthy source of information whether it's intentional or not might not matter which gets in to verify and things that are in the tenets of the pledge so again I'll go back now because I know we need to wrap up I am reachable through the organization of on the organization's Facebook page I'm on Facebook I can give you my business cards I don't have business cards feel free to call me some of the things I tell people that I train on a daily basis is I can't think of every objection you're gonna get and you need an answer to every objection you're gonna get you may not be able to answer at the moment you may not be able to get back to that person and answer it later but the next time you get it you should have an answer and if you're uncomfortable figuring that answer out call me I'm happy to help a great way to get more suggestions as to post them and Ohio approach with pleasure advocacy group if you have questions you want a better way than calling me actually but I'm happy to talk to you anytime you get a lot of crowd sourced responses like one where yeah you'll probably get better answers than me all right I'll be able to differentiate between a national objection to the pitch that you're making or a did I make the person feel uncomfortable or not and you know I can help with a little detail sales stuff like that so I can't think don't have a self right just really in long-term care yes so at this point we do want to ensure the meeting thank you very much for coming