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[Music] hello hi my name is elizabeth billies and i am a divorce attorney in suburban philadelphia talking parents app has asked me to be here today to provide you my seven tips for creating a custody agreement before i give you those tips i wanted to tell you a little bit about myself i have been practicing family law exclusively for the last 11 years in the philadelphia area and during that time i have represented a few okay honestly more than a few people in their divorces and in their custody matters and during that time i've seen a lot of of different scenarios for custody but i have developed seven tips that i think would really are going to help you to create your custody agreement so before we get into those tips let's first talk about what is a custom what is a cost agreement what are we talking about when we say custody agreement so it is a written document usually made in order of court that says where your children are going to be living it also generally defines vacation time holiday time it also can discuss legal custody decisions who has the right to make those generally both parents do but that can be defined in a custody agreement as well um and but most importantly we see the fights over where the children are physically going to be so that's what we're gonna really be talking about today um you may also hear the language parenting plan um sometimes parenting plans what i've seen have been documents that go beyond a you know discussing physical custody discussing holidays they go more to parenting philosophies and how we're going to deal with discipline and how we're going to deal with electronics those kinds of things sometimes parenting plans can become a custody agreement and and are made in order of court sometimes those parenting plans are just more used to help the parents stay on the same page with regards to uh actually parenting their kids and they don't actually become a custody order so just to kind of clarify that terminology to you today we're going to be talking about custody agreements that are ultimately made custody orders by a judge that are enforceable in court so without further ado let's get into the tips so tip number one and i will recap at the end but tip number one is be realistic about your lifestyle and your work schedule now you know anything less than 100 is not enough time with your children i get that um but when parties separate and divorce obviously having your children 100 of the time is just simply not possible so we need to be realistic about what actually is going to work for you and your family and when i say your family that does still involve your ex because regardless of the fact that you are married you are still a family and you still have to make decisions together because you have children so for example if you travel for work if you work a third shift you need to take that into consideration when you're coming up with your custody agreement arguing for a schedule that you are incapable of doing giving your work schedule is really just a waste of time and it's only the court's going to look at you and say why are you why are you asking for this you can't you're not even there you're not physically able to do it so be realistic about what you actually can do given the your day-to-day schedule in addition also think about where you live where your ex lives and where your children's school is if you live an hour away from where your children go to school and they and them staying at your house during the school week is going to require them to get up at three o'clock in the morning that's not gonna be a good schedule for your children and so you need to be realistic again i'm sure you would love to have your children spend that spend a week night with you but that's just not going to be workable for you or for them and remember we're always thinking about what's in the best interests of these children so think about that is this in the best interest of my children the answer is probably no so step number one is okay let me think about what do i do in a typical day from morning to night where am i where are my kids how long does it take to get to all those places and start with your custody agreements or think about your custody agreement accordingly so that's tip number one um tip number two is be prepared to not get everything that you want um just like a christmas wish list uh you could ask for everything for santa to bring you everything but you're unlikely to get all of the items on your wish list a custody agreement can often be like that as well because for a couple reasons one again you may be asking for your kids 100 of the time well that's probably not going to happen the other thing is that you also have to consider what the other party wants and perhaps what you want and what they want maybe in conflict so you're going to win some they're likely to going to win some and that's how we come up with an agreement it's usually not 100 of what one party wants so how do you deal with this my suggestion is make a two lists first one what are your non-negotiables what are the things that you need to have in your custody agreement what are your priorities for example is thanksgiving just the be all and end all holiday for you could you care less about memorial day could you care less about about fourth of july if that's the case um then that's your that's on your list on your first list that's your non-negotiable put and so make a list where that those things are on list number one list number two is your you know if i got it it'd be great but i'm i'm you know i'm i'm i can work on with that so when you know what your priorities are you can go into your negotiations about your custody agreement accordingly so you stay focused on what's on list number one and then you're not so focused on what's on list number two if you have an attorney make sure that you also give them a copy of this list if you're going to litigation if they're doing some kind of formal discussion if you're going into mediation which a lot of people use which i think is a wonderful tool to resolve custody cases bring those lists to the media to the mediation so that you have them there and so that you know these are the things i don't want to forget to have in my agreement these are my things i just want to be in there because you don't want to do this more than once it's expensive it's exhausting let's just do this the first time and you can make sure that you can do this you know only once when you have that list and know you know know what you need but also be prepared to give some stuff away so if you know that your spouse's holiday yours is thanksgiving and theirs is halloween be prepared to give that away because in more more likely if you're willing to recognize that that that that's their big thing that that's that's on their list number one they're more likely to give you what's on your list number one so recognizing what are the priorities of both of you and being respectful of that is more is going to help you in creating a custody agreement that you both can live with and it's more likely that you're going to actually come up with an agreement because if you fight over every little thing you're just not going to get anywhere i've been in those kind of negotiations where any time the spouse the other spouse said something my client just said no and it was you know i would say to him a particular case i'm thinking of you know what's the difference between a five o'clock drop off versus a 5 30 drop off and there really isn't much but it was just because she wanted it and so going into into custody negotiations and come and crafting a custody agreement with that attitude when you're fighting over things that honestly you don't really care about that is a waste of your time and you are unlikely to come to an agreement so make your list of your priorities be willing to throw away throw away the rest that's step number two step number three take family holiday traditions and family vacations into consideration so what do i mean by this um in is thanksgiving again we'll go back to my thanksgiving example is thanksgiving the end-all and be-all for your family is that where your family comes visits from other places you know from out of state you get together you do a whole big thing or is it an easter egg hunt at your aunt's house is it a um passover is it fourth of july uh whatever that is for both you and your spouse take that into consideration and and that's for two reasons honestly it's remember we're always we're thinking about the kids here we're worried about what is in the best interest of these children so is it in their best interest to not get to participate in a family tradition where they get to see their cousins that they never get to see the rest of the year they get to look for those easter eggs or shoot off fireworks on the beach whatever that is that's a memory that they're going to have for the rest of their lives and so why would you want to provide prevent them from having that um why wouldn't that be in their best interest to have those memories and to have that time um i just don't see the reason for that and so that would be you know you need to take that into consideration there's ways that you can work with them well you may be saying okay well liz but i want to see them on thanksgiving too so but there's things that you can do to work that out so if thanksgiving dinner is the big meal for your ex ex's family and people come in from out of state around a town you don't regularly get to see okay well then that's you know maybe maybe his or her time every year but you always get black friday and you can create a new tradition with that you know you've got brunch maybe you go shopping you go to the movies whatever that is you can create your own tradition and again when you are recognizing your spouses former spouse's tradition they're more likely to recognize yours as well so and again at the end of the day this is for the kids what is in their best interest and i think getting to experience those family memories is in their best interest so that would be for the holiday piece vacations are similar so i you know like i said i'm in the philadelphia area people go to the jersey shore pretty regularly and i have a lot of cases where families go the same week every year the whole family gets together they rent a big beach house they spend time on the beach they you know play games they have big barbecues and and that's their time together and so if you have a standing vacation with your family you can put that in your custody agreement you know most of my agreements allow for a vacation time or just saying one week or two weeks each summer or each year depending on what on what the family wants um but you can put in a specific week you can put in a specific month again this custom agreement is only works if it works for you i always tell my clients whatever works for you and your family works for me i don't live your life um i don't know what's what you guys do for holidays unless you tell me so i'm always my goal as an attorney and i think most family law lawyers too is to get a custody agreement that is workable because if it's not workable you're just going to want to modify it so part of it being workable is taking into consideration holidays vacations these special times another thing and i like to have this as a provision in any agreement because it's something that does come off um and i think a lot of people kind of forget and so it's like kind of a it's like tip 3a let's say um is talking about family special events so funerals weddings uh confirmations graduations first communion bar and by mitzvahs whatever you know religious any religious um mile markers in someone's life that would would apply to your family also consider those um i have a general clause i used to shoot for those um but but i would suggest considering those i don't think people think about them they're so worried about getting you know the big holidays down and the um the big the physical custody um kind of stuff down the physical regular physical custody schedule they're so worried about that that they kind of forget like oh yeah you know what happens when uh cousin joe's wedding is not on my weekend how do we work that out so consider that kind of stuff in advance um because that's another family tradition and a family event that you probably don't want your kids to miss and again they probably don't want to miss it too so always think about what is you know don't think about what's good for your ex think about what's good for them it might be the same thing and that's okay but we're focused on the kids here um tip number four again consider your child's needs and their preferences so i get asked like the number one question i get asked um is is there an age where my kids get to decide where they want to live now i don't know the laws in every state but in pennsylvania that there is not such an age there's no magic age the child thinking at age 14 that's usually the one that i hear uh that people get to say you know poof that i get to decide now and i'm gonna live with my mom and i never have to see my dad again because that's what i want let's just i don't think most states have that um and i know in my state they certainly don't but obviously check with an attorney in your area if this is a question that you have um but the courts generally will consider a child's preference and will consider it the older they are so they're not going to consider a four-year-old's preference necessarily but they are going to consider a 15-year-old's preference as long as it's quote i say reasoned so i always give the example if the 15 year old wants to live with dad because they get to stay up till 2 a.m and eat chocolate for breakfast that's not really a well-reason preference but if a kid wants to stay at you know let's say a mom's his mom lives closer to school she's really organized she always gets me to school on time dad is a little overwhelmed i'm always late he forgets to pack my lunch you know i really prefer to live with mom those are well-reasoned preferences and i think a court will take those into consideration and i think that the party should take those into consideration too um we ask so much of kids in divorce cases we really do we ask them to uh except you know new people in their lives new significant others new siblings we asked them to pack up their whole lives every other weekend and go to somebody else's house we asked them to travel across the country to spend time with the parent um in you know somewhere somewhere else in another state and and we should be thinking also too about what is the best for them um and so please consider that when you're making your custody agreement um what's going to work best for them again going back to my first example of having to get up at 3am is that really in your kid's best interest is that really their preference i would say probably not knowing most teenagers um and so think about that another part of this is if your child has special needs so if you've got a child who has special needs who has difficulties with transitions difficulties with new people difficulties communicating in some ways consider those special needs as well when coming up with your custody agreement we always want to consider those um if your child has issues with transitions maybe flip-flopping every other day where they are spending the night is not really going to be in their best interest if they have services that they need um to have access to in terms of a therapist or someone that comes to the home can that cert can those services be accommodated at one parent's house or both parents house if it's only at one parent's house then we need to probably craft an agreement where those services can still be rendered to the child but they're um because that's what they need and again we're thinking about what the child needs if they can't work at the other parent we're going to have to come up with a custody agreement that that considers that so always be thinking it's like always um bringing it back to what's in the best interests of your kids and it is considering them as individuals um and also you know if you've got more than one child what works for one child may not work for the other though i generally like to have kids on the same schedule and i think that the court system does too and i think the parties you as parents probably do as well um but that may not always work particularly if there's a big age gap um so you want to consider those kinds of things when coming up with your agreement i think so many times we worry about the parents and we and it's the adults in the room having the conversation and we're not like you know let's play this out here let's play out this agreement is this really going to work for my kid what am i asking my kid to do in this agreement is that really fair and so so i just ask you again another tip for coming up with an agreement is to consider those things uh the next one is develop a communication plan with your co-parent so talking parents app is a wonderful communication plan i recommend it to my clients but having a plan of how you guys are going to pass information back and forth pass back sports schedules and report cards and school notifications whatever that don't technology is great and so it's so easy to be able to do this now um i remember when i first started you know we were relying on papers and book bags and now parents should just go on a portal and get their kids report cards and know if they were you know they turned in their assignment today i mean it's it's a lot easier now it really is it's really helped with especially with parents that don't talk to each other it's really made it a lot easier um but make sure that you come up with a plan because you're still going to have to talk each other even if you would wish you would never speak to this person ever again and and there's those kind of divorce cases out there that i might be speaking you might be not in your head saying yes liz that's mine and i get that but you have kids and so you're going to need to talk to one another and so developing a plan that's going to actually work for you is you need to do that and you can actually put that in your custody agreement so i recommend to people i i put it in all the time is that we are going to use talking parents app to facilitate communication we're going to upload documents we're going to make sure that we regularly check the app um and we will respond to each other through the app only and only use text message for emergencies or you know logistical changes where there's only you know you need to make a decision really quickly um so those are the kind of things that you also want to consider i think a lot of people don't consider that until after um and whatever that communication plan is use it um make sure you're using it because you i have so many clients who come to me and say you know talk about miscommunication and someone was late and then the baseball equipment wasn't there it was like well did you talk to each other well no you gotta talk to each other i'm sorry to say maybe i'm you know disappointing to hear but it's going to have to happen so i think using co-parenting apps like talk parenting apps talking parents app is a great way to do that without having to you know get on the phone which i know people really don't like to do we don't talk in person you can use the app you can communicate what you need to communicate we're all on the same page we know where everybody has to be we know what the children need and and we're following that plan um and and i think also having a plan prevents you from having to use lawyers to facilitate that communication and trust me i gotta be honest most lawyers don't want to have those conversations for you um it's also really expensive so come up with a communication plan save yourself some money definitely need to have that in your agreement um next one number six is plan for worst case scenario so what do i mean by that i have a lot of people who they get along really well and that's great i love that i love when i see people who can co-parent together wonderfully after a divorce or a separation i think that's warms my heart you think you know divorce lawyers would maybe not want to hear that but it it's the opposite i love seeing parents work together for the benefit of their children uh after a divorce or separation so a lot of times in those cases i have the parties who have a very vague custody agreement they'll just say you know physical custody has agreed holidays as agreed they don't have specific dates and times in their agreement because they think oh we get along so well we don't need that well i'm here to tell you that you probably do and you may be saying but liz we get along great again we don't need that why do we make you're making more work you're making this more difficult more negotiation it's gonna make it worse you're gonna make us you know not have a great relationship anymore this is why you need to have a specific custody agreement and you need to plan for a worst-case scenario because things change um you meet somebody you now have significant others people move to different parts of the city the different parts of the county different different states um someone's job changes a kid relationship with one parent or the other changes and then the custody that worked before now no longer works because the child doesn't want to see that parent as much or the child is now involved in sports and so that was you know results in a change and i see when people have a very vague agreement and those kind of big changes happen in the lives of the children and the parents that that vague agreement is not working anymore and then what do you do because you don't have anything in writing to tell you what to do and so you say okay well i'll just file them and you want to modify my agreement with the court and then you can certainly do that but that court system is not so quick so if you have something where you're like oh my gosh we're really in a tough spot and we need to have this modification you know asap well you're not gonna get it and so particularly if you don't have things spelled out for like holidays and you are in a fight over who has the child for christmas eve and you come to your lawyer on december 23rd and say you know help me with this you know we need to have this resolved a court system is not gonna be able to help you in a day so having that set out in a custody agreement when you always get particularly when you guys are getting along great and being able to come up with with that amicably it helps you and so if there's something does happen down the line where you do not get along anymore you've got something in writing telling you what to do i tell clients that's all the time your custody agreement is your default you can always modify for something different if you want to change the custom the the transfer time on um 4th of july from 9 to 10 pm you can do that as long as you guys agree the court will not care but in the event that you cannot agree on a specific provision of your agreement a specific change then the court and you and the court's going to look at well what does the agreement say what does the order say what is this telling me that you are supposed to be doing and whether and did you do that so that's why having a specific agreement is only going to help you again you can always deviate from it if it's by agreement but having something just kind of as your baseline is really really helpful and i will also say this is kind of like a tip 6a i'd say if you start to deviate significantly from your custody agreement this happens mail time i the client comes to me you know five they do across the agreement five years go by they come see me because it's not working for whatever reason maybe i did the agreement before probably didn't and they say to me well you know oh yeah we haven't been doing that for years well that's the problem is now the course will look at what's on the paper they're not gonna you know you can tell them we've been doing the same thing for three years but what if the other side doesn't agree um so having what's in writing that is relatively what you're doing is really important so if you are going to make significant modifications over the years just update that in writing um that's really important because again we don't want there to be confusion when there's when there's a discord because the court system is so slow we don't want um we don't want that so you want to make sure that your agreement it's a living breathing document you want to make sure it's actually reflective of what you're doing okay last one number seven so it's it's kind of the opposite of six and you're like well liz this is weird because you're telling me this is number six but now number seven is a little different so in number seven i'm saying understand that your agreement cannot cover everything so while you want your agreement to be as specific as it can be and to cover as many things as you can think of we all know life happens i mean who thought that cogan 19 was going to happen you know nobody how many people's custody agreements considered what to do in a pandemic i can promise you probably not um so we had to think on the fly we had to adjust families had to adjust lawyers had addressed we all had to adjust as a society and so understand that your agreement it can't cover everything it can't cover every single what if because we can't think of all the what-ifs that could happen so being flexible with your co-parent and understanding that we all have to give each other grace at time and at times and give each other um ability to modify um is really important because the shoe's always going to be on the other foot you may be asking for a change because all of a sudden you know aunt sally is here from from california and he didn't know she was going to be here and it's a surprise visit and it's not your custodial weekend and you don't have a clause in your agreement about when aunt sally comes to visit and you want to switch weekends and so let's hope your co-parent says okay well what happens if you know three months from now your co-parent has a family barbecue or a you know family birthday on your weekend and asks you to switch think about what that what your co-parent did for you and and give be flexible and work together again it's for your kid's best interest it's the best interest policy and sally and it's probably in their best interest to go to that family birthday barbecue so you need to be able to work together because life happens and so to hold somebody to the letter of the agreement without considering that we need to be flexible with one another it's just not realistic it's only gonna lead to acrimony and and it's only actually ultimately gonna burn you because there i promise you there will be a time where you need a modification and the other person will remember that you didn't give them one uh so so do consider that so again just to recap i want to recap the seven tips for creating a custody agreement so tip number one is be realistic about your lifestyle and your work schedule number two is be prepared to not get everything that you want in your custody agreement number three is to take family holiday traditions and vacations into consideration when creating your custody agreement number four is consider your child's needs and preferences number five is develop a communication plan to speak to your co-parent about custodial issues uh number six is plan for worst case scenario whether you like it or not and number seven is understand that your custody agreement cannot cover everything and act accordingly so i really hope that these tips were helpful to you um if you'd like more information about myself and my work you can see me on in the on social media i'm at the divorce lawyer life on instagram on twitter on facebook also can come visit me at my blog at thedivorcelawyerlife.com i'd love to have you i love providing information to parties to help them through this scary and transitional time for them and their children and i really hope that these tips can help you either create a new custody agreement or modify your old one and with everyone with cobin 19 stay safe wash your hands and um again if you need anything please come find me on the internet thanks