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Arthur is in California hey Arthur welcome to the show how can we help hey Dave I am a did your financial piece a eons and decades ago and became dedicated to not using credit cards and I am a small date grower group dates and do farmers markets I have resisted taking credit cards because of the three and a half percent that it cost me that's three and a half percent it's a hundred percent profit that's out of my pocket and also just because I believe in the philosophy that you guys teach which is not using credit cards but increasingly I'm starting now in this last year especially starting to actually lose sales because people don't have anything the plastic is there an alternative to credit cards that doesn't cost me three and a half percent and where I am still protected against fraud credit card you know you limited on fraud at twenty five bucks but is there something like that another vehicle that we can use as far as a merchant yes yeah that's what I'm making sure you're talking about that side of the equation yeah as far as a merchant I'm not aware of one we take debit cards here at Ramsey we do not take credit cards and our service that we use allows us to do that but we do pay the fee I don't remember if it's three and a half on our volume or not but on small volume it is three three and a half so that's fairly normal and that is a you know a lot of our sales the vast majority of ourselves are online so to not be able to take plastic in the debit card form would put us out of business we are it does cost us business that we don't take credit cards but we're willing to take that because we tell people not to use credit cards we're not in this but we're in that the business of teaching about that you're not so if you were to just get a something like a square that pops into your phone and you can just run a card down it I don't those are probably three three and a half percent - yeah they're better but the it's a very easy way in a farmers market setting for you to take plastic but you're gonna have the fee I don't know of anything that is felis on the merchant side you know Arthur I would look at this as you're saying that it's costing you sales right now would you rather have zero percent or would you rather have 97 percent of that sale and give three percent is I mean what you're getting is a convenience when you're paying that commission to the the merchant the card merchant is probably worth it to get those additional sales and I mean you've got to make a personal decision I mean like Dave saying there there's no way we can take credit cards with what we teach but it's its core Jermaine - exactly you know this is how we teach people to do it I don't know if you want to use your business to enforce those same principles or not but that's a personal decision and we're not gonna beat you up if you choose to do that well he's not gonna be able to change their habits anyway so you know why hope it doesn't change their habits when we don't take it either that's right but but it would make us into hypocrites right exactly that's different than if you're selling strawberries that's right you know and so or whatever he said dates on dates okay or whatever so I'm if you're in the restaurant business and you hate credit card debt but you choose to continue to accept credit cards that's not on it's not inconsistent because you're not putting people into debt there now what you don't want to do in a business where you accept financing of some kind if you're against debt is to is to encourage your responsibility or participate any responsibility or or subprime stuff and those kinds of things I wouldn't ever tell you to do that but in your case Arthur I don't think you're being inconsistent you can you can do whatever you want to do but I don't think you're being inconsistent and honestly I think I hear you're more concerned about the three and a half percent