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hello hello all right got a few people here i'm gonna get my youtube set up so i can hopefully actually let's not do that i think it's going to be better for bandwidth not to all right i'm going to give everybody just a couple seconds let me get set up here you can hear me everything good chat um send me a chat if you can hear me and the sound is okay all right yay okay good sounds good all right all right let's see of course ads good old uh good old youtube ads okay good all right looks like we're good now okay fantastic all right i just want to make sure i can monitor chat and make sure everything's okay i'm also um just trying to make sure we can get some answers out to you guys so um today i really just wanted to do a quick live to mostly talk about a couple of the big questions specifically about people who are applying for loans and you might be interested in getting a a initial round like if you got the first round of pvp way back when and then um you are maybe you misapplied or you think you might be eligible for an increase of that initial amount i want to talk to you guys today to specifically talk about who can do that because some people are wondering if if it is um if you can get that and then get a second draw loan or maybe if you're just eligible for that or if you're maybe not eligible for that or at all doesn't even make sense to try to pursue it and then you are eligible for the second round of ppp so this this um this week is the week that the applications open up okay so you probably haven't heard from your bank just yet because it's kind of um they're starting to open up basically i think tomorrow unless you have like a small community lender some of those community lenders were open um yeah so um we wanted to we we just want to kind of clarify so i'm seeing some um i'm seeing some questions come in i'll probably like hold any questions until the end because i've got some stuff i specifically want to talk about and then i'll try to answer anything that's kind of relevant to that there are some things that um i just want to say are still up in the air there will be some videos coming specifically erc and employee retention credit or employee retention tax credit all of those things um those i'm not gonna be talking about today because basically i'm still trying to understand it enough to explain it to you guys because there's lots of moving parts in that and so i'm gonna wait until i get a firm handle on that and then i will tell you guys about it so today is talking about okay can you increase your ppp amount if you got a loan before august um in the first round can you increase your loan amount so i'm going to talk about the five basically scenarios that you can get an increase all right so the first one is were you a partnership that if you applied as a partnership and you did not include any partner compensation you only included um you only included the um employee cost so you'll include include your payroll costs and you didn't actually include any partner compensation in that you could be eligible for a higher loan amount and so you want to do that calculation where you take the partnership the individual partner income and you take compensation for them as well and you can apply for more money from the initial loan so this is not going into your second draw this is going back to your bank and asking them to increase your initial amount so if you're a partnership and you only applied with payroll costs first time around you can potentially um add some more there okay the second is if you are a seasonal employee employer and i realize that some of these are going to be like few and far between not many people are going to be able to and not many people are going to be able to get larger loans because of these five things so just bear with me okay seasonal employers if you were to do the loan calculation now under the new rules and you could get a higher loan amount than what you actually got in the first round then you can go back and ask for an increase so you can go and check how to calculate your loan for a seasonal employer um i'm going to say did i have it right here i might have it right here hold on i can't remember what the original calculation for a season one seasonal employer was but um they're basically saying take the average payroll cost over any 12-week period that you choose between february 15 2019 and february 15 2020 if you take the 12-week period and then you average your monthly payroll costs that's what you would use for your average payroll cost in order to apply for the loan so i don't remember what it was beforehand i didn't really do a lot with seasonal businesses but if you do the calculation now and you could have gotten more then you can potentially go back to your bank and get additional funds all right so if you're a seasonal employee employer read up on that um the other one so the other reason that you could potentially get more money is for it's kind of three-fold so they bulk these in or they put all of these together in the same section in the same faq um if you if you guys remember the first time around there were a lot of people who were kind of got pretty scared at the beginning of the pvp program because there was all this talk about like oh what if um like what if like people were trying to give back their money because they didn't know what the tax effect was going to be they didn't know if they were going to get in trouble for using the money they just didn't know what they could do with the money and so they gave it back because they just didn't want to have to deal with it so if you if that happened to you and you gave um if you gave money back if you returned all of your ppp loan maybe you got one and you returned it all because you returned it all under safe harbor or whatever it is and you legitimately could have gotten the ppp loan but you returned it because you just didn't want to deal with it um you can potentially go back and get that amount again additionally if you return part of your loan so maybe you got a hundred thousand but you were like oh no i can only spend fifty thousand dollars of this and you gave back the other 50 then you can go back and get that other 50 if you want to um and then third is that if you did not accept the full amount of the loan so if the bank told you that you could get 100 000 but you only accepted 70 or 50 then you can go back and get that difference between what you were allowed to draw and what you actually took okay so those are the only scenarios where you can go back to your lender and get an increase on your original loan amount those are the only scenarios i was talking to a client this morning that was wanting to go back and get a higher loan amount because they did a miscalculation in the time well it wasn't really a miscalculation it was like they could have selected a different time period that would have increased their loan very significantly but the bank had already put in their documentation and they had already kind of started the loan process so basically it was just a calculation change and so they were like well can i go back and get more money and the answer is probably no so there's nothing in here right now that says if you did a miscalculation the first time around that you can go back and get more money it's just under these very specific scenarios okay um so i wanted to make sure everybody was aware of that because that's kind of a big deal um everybody got really excited thinking that they could get additional money and then now we know that may not necessarily be the case um okay just real quickly on seasonal employer there's a question about a seasonal employer i'll read this to you um it's a little wordy okay the maximum amount of the second draw ppp loan to a borrower that's a seasonal employer meaning an employer that does not operate for more than seven months in any calendar year or that during the proceeding calendar year had gross receipts for any six months of that year that were not more than 33.33 of the gross receipts of the employer for the other six months of that year um yeah i'll get a better definition for a seasonal employer um [Music] okay i let's see the other things i wanted to cover with this were um can you can you get a ppp if your business was closed um if your business is closed now so let's say you you operated in all of 2020 but let's say in january you decided to permanently close your business so you had payroll costs in 2019 and 2020 can you get um can you get a ppp loan and the answer is no if your business is now permanently closed you cannot get a ppp loan all right so on the reverse of that if you started a business in 2020 it had to have been started before february 15th of 2020 in order to get a ppp loan all right so if it was a pre-covered business you can be eligible for ppp as long as you are still in operations all right so those are kind of the big things because i've been seeing a lot of faqs around that so i wanted to make sure i get that out to you guys um so we can talk about a couple q a so if you guys have any questions we can post them um i'm seeing i'm seeing a comment that says many um banks aren't accepting their forgiveness for the first loan um darlene that is probably because the loans are under 150 000 and because the economic aid act came out and it has this provision that they're going to be putting out new forgiveness for for loans under 150 they are going to be redoing that forgiveness for them so kind of basically i think what they're going to do is they're going to take the 3508 s modify it and then kind of make that available probably the 35os is going to be kind of 3508s form is going to be sort of off the table there's no point of anybody using that anymore the the new forgiveness form whatever they're going to call it is going to kind of override that so i think a lot of banks are just saying hold up we need to wait and hear what's happening with this new forgiveness form before we take any additional forgiveness applications which is fine um totally fine i also wanted to mention yep darlene she says but the but it will come out during tax season it should be coming out in the next two weeks this forgiveness form so um we're not going to be in the heat of tax season but i know this is all pretty hard timing for accountants so you guys if your accountants are helping you with this please give them grace because we are all right now dealing with w-2s you're in tax planning um well urine tax planning was in december now estimated tax payments estimated tax payments are due on the 15th um are they doing the 15th still yeah so estimated tax payments are due it's just a busy time for accountants so if you're trying to get a hold of somebody like um you know make sure it's urgent make sure you let them know that you're trying to apply for a pvp but also make sure that you give them ample time and don't expect a super quick turnaround right now because it's pretty hard um all right and that's another reason why we do stuff like this so we can try to help inform as many people as possible and sort of relieve a little bit of that um okay um okay yeah um i do see a question about a farmer so i didn't apply because i had a net loss in 2019 as a farmer should i apply for 2020 is not that it's based on growth so um you can actually use farmers can either use 2019 or 2020 and you can use gross income from either year whichever is better for you um i go through this in the the webinar that i did last week it is available for purchase that has like a detailed spreadsheet that goes along with it so i did put the link in the description below if anybody needs that um it's it's way too detailed to put on youtube nobody would watch it but i go through all of the calculations based on the um based on the tax entity type and so you have like a spreadsheet specifically for schedule c with employees schedule c no employees schedule f no employee schedule f with employees etc s corp c corp um partnership so all the calculations are there you can plug in your numbers 2019 and 2020 are right beside each other so you can do both and then see which one comes out better for you um that's what i would recommend doing that or just look at your gross income see which one's higher um mara and then see if that if you can figure out which one is better now for farmers if you have employees and you take your gross income they do want you to reduce out any payroll costs so if you have payroll on your schedule f that you're reporting you can't take your gross income just by itself you have to remove out any payroll costs that you're taking um so that can be beneficial to you though because maybe your schedule f gross income is 200 000 and then you have um you would have to max that out at 100k compensation total so um you might be able to take out the payroll costs and still get your um still get the maximum that you can for your gross income okay so definitely check that out um can we apply for a new ppp loan even if we have not been forgiven for the first one absolutely yes um you can you do not have to be forgiven but you do have to have spent your money on eligible expenses before um before you apply for the second draw okay um actually it's not that you have to do it before you apply it's before the funds get dispersed to you you have to um you have to have spent the money all right so that's kind of that could be different because some people might get an increase of that first initial loan and then they have to have spent it before they get a disbursement on the second draw of the loan so there's a timing issue there um most people are not going to deal with that but just in case i want to make sure that that was covered um if i own an llc you did not have a ppp loan before can you apply for a 200 000 ppp now um yes you can apply if you did not get one before as long as you were eligible under the original eligibility rules basically if you're a small business under 500 employees you're probably eligible as long as you don't have any sort of weird 501 c like something it has to be a specific specific eligible organizations when you look at the application form these are the types of it's not gonna it's not gonna focus for me but the eligible organizations are up here this is the second draw form but they're the same types of organizations are eligible you just have to be eligible for the size which for a 200 000 loan you are likely going to be under the size limit um just make sure you don't get to determine how much money you want you have to do the payroll cost calculation you have to calculate your average monthly payroll divided by or calculate your average monthly payroll and then multiply times 2.5 and then that is the number you can request for your loan um what if commissions was included in the original ppp application can you amend it um i don't know why you would want to amend it because you can include commissions as a payroll cost so and that would make your commissions higher or your payroll costs higher so you've got a higher loan so i'm not sure why you would want to amend that but let me know if there's something i'm missing there um i started my business in october 2020 and i have no paperwork other than my ein can i apply unfortunately no natasha you cannot get a ppp loan you have to have been in business before february 15 2020. um chevy says have medical office partnership and got a loss in 2019 so we didn't apply for ppp last year would you suggest to file 2020 and apply or can we just show the revenue decrease between 19 and 20. so chevy because you didn't get an original ppp loan you don't have to prove out a loss the loss um when you look at the difference between the two applications which i just posted a video showing the walkthrough of the two applications only the second draw borrower application form has this section for the gross the reduction in gross receipts so if you are applying for your first loan and you've never gotten a loan a ppp loan before then you do not have to prove out the revenue decline so if you have if your partners showed earnings in 2020 and then if you had payroll costs in 2020 you can apply for a loan okay and you don't have to prove out a decline in revenue all right what do we have okay um can you use 20 20 year for average payroll numbers yes um yeah when you're doing your average payroll you can choose if 2019 or 2020 is better for you so go with whichever one is higher that would be my suggestion um oh daniel the question on commissions the commissions weren't included in the original ppp application can you amend it no that was i maybe you came in like a little bit later but if you made kind of a an error and didn't include some additional payroll costs and it's i mean kind of a mistake if you will um because at the very beginning a lot of us didn't know like what exactly needed to be put into the payroll costs and then a lot of further clarification came the longer the time when it went along um just because we didn't know it then doesn't mean we can go back and get additional money now so it's kind of like um i think you would call that kind of a miss application or kind of a missed opportunity in the application so if that's the case we can't go back and ask for more i wish we could that would probably pretty much everybody would go back and redo their calculation if that was the case because there was a lot of people who left money on the table the first time around um okay so the next question is i work from home is it possible um to add my rent and utilities as forgivable expenses i believe um so when you're going to apply for the loan which we're talking about applying for the loan right now because we want to get clear on that number first but if you um if you're going to apply for your loan you cannot include any rent utilities it's only payroll cost to get that number right and then when you go and apply for forgiveness you can include rent and utilities now when it comes from working from home if you file a schedule c and you take some sort of home office deduction you can apply for the percentage that is eligible under whatever you've applied for before with your schedule c you can't if you weren't taking it on your tax return before you can't now start taking it it had to be a pre-existing expense that you always took on your taxes in order to take that proportion um on for forgiveness and remember you can only take it during the covered period so with a home office deduction you're already taking expenses and then taking like a portion of those to take for your home office deduction and then you're going to be taking a portion of that because it's not even the whole year so it's going to start to get really tiny amounts really quickly so just kind of keep that in mind um but really if you're self-employed you should not have to include any other expenses if you apply for the right amount of the loan to begin with because when you apply for the loan you take your schedule c line 31 divided by 12 multiply it times 2.5 that's your loan amount that's your owner's compensation so when you go and apply for forgiveness you're doing the exact same calculation and that's your number so you apply for a loan got the right amount and then you're applying for forgiveness with the exact same basis of calculation so you shouldn't have any additional expenses you need to include for forgiveness so it's kind of all about getting the number right to begin with and then forgiveness gets a lot easier kind of say that like forgiveness starts with getting the right loan amount to start with um so just keep that in mind and i think the other thing i really want you guys to know is like when you're applying for a loan the banks have no legal obligation to make sure that you've got your calculation correct they do not have that requirement on them they actually have language that releases the bank from doing anything wrong in that situation so you are responsible for calculating the right loan amount um and that's that's um that's kind of hard for a lot of people because they don't know they don't they don't know the calculations and they're looking to their banks or their cpas or their bookkeepers or their accountants to help them out and then some people really some people just don't don't know the right things so that's what i'm trying to get this information out so hopefully we can get everybody clear okay um can a self-employed schedule c sole proprietor no employees apply as a seasonal business if six months were only 33 of gross revenue you know i should have brushed up on my on my seasonal stuff i probably need to like read about it i don't think i can answer that question um i i need to see this like 33 percent gross receipts thing um i actually don't typically um i mean their replay will be available i'm not going to read it again um the yeah it's also um and this is in the ifr on page 38 or 28 ifr on the second draw loans so you can look at that okay my bank overfunded me by 15k luckily i was paying attention to what i should have actually qualified for and ended up giving back the overpayment right okay so aj that's good for overpayment so um since you gave back what was overpaid you won't go back and like get any more from that original loan amount but um that's good because it makes it easier for you to apply for forgiveness and get full forgiveness right um okay so this is a good question what exactly is the plus eidl amount in the calculation so if you are applying for your first ppp loan um when you look at the borrower form this again this is the second draw but there's like this little box right here that says um on the original form it says average monthly payroll and then it says times 2.5 plus um plus uh eidl loan amount so technically you can refinance your eid alone into a ppp if it's your first time around all right so that's what that is about if you didn't get an eid alone then don't worry about it you would not put your advance in there don't put your advance but if you want to refinance your eidl into a ppp you can do that here okay um which honestly i don't know why you wouldn't unless it was a very large amount and you didn't have enough forgivable costs to cover that um yeah i would definitely check that out um where do we submit the 24.83 so you're going to submit it directly to your lender your bank but it's not you're probably not going to be filling it out like in pdf and then or even in paper and then giving it to them like this they're going to have their own portal that you're going to fill in basically all this information so it doesn't hurt to have it filled out because then when you go to actually fill out their portal you're gonna have all the information you need ready okay um the ifr was not clear on whether self-employed could be seasonal just a seasonal employer employer would would infer that there are employees so i don't i don't think we can be a seasonal self-employed that doesn't seem to make much sense um i am using virtual agents to make calls for me is it possible to ask to cover these expenses that will be marketing marketing expense i think is what that is um no i don't think so um so covered operations expenditures is mostly talking about software not labor so those people would be 1099 1099 contractors is what it sounds like um they are not able to be included for the purposes of pvp um we are we have a question about could march april and may gross receipts reduction of 25 be qualified for the ppp no it has to be a calendar quarter as of now this is the guidance has to be a calendar quarter so it'd have to be january february march or march april may i mean um april may june that'd be q2 um so it has to go by calendar quarter can we refinance an eid alone if the erdo was granted in may 2020 or just the er deal granted before early april um i didn't see like i looked for that because i thought that was kind of interesting um that i thought you could only do it before early april but the actual borrower application does not say um does not give guidance on that with regard to the number of employees is the application asking for actual head count or fte the application is asking for head count straight head count regardless of part-time full-time anything just count the number of active employees that you have and then um the minimum number is one so if you're self-employed or you're an independent contractor and you're filling this out and it's only you put one in there okay um and then if you are a self-employed um if you're a self-employed person and you have employees include yourself as one still yeah head count at the time of application correct i have clients who never applied for the first ppp can they apply simultaneously um you could probably apply simultaneously for the first and second round however you can't receive a disbursement until you have um until you have spent the money so here's the um okay here's here's the language on that okay the applicant received a first draw paycheck protection loan program loan and before the second draw paycheck protection program loan is disbursed will have used the full amount including any increase of the first draw paycheck protection program loan only for eligible expenses so this is a certification you have to certify to on the second draw application form so you're going to have to have spent it before you can get a disbursement of the second draw loan so you might get the first one and then apply right after it's going to be hard to use that much money in a short amount of time unless you're going back and like trying to like claim last year's expenses which i don't think you can do um so the you can apply for this initial round of ppp and then the second draw up through march 31st of 2021 and you know if we do get another stimulus that like with the new administration if another stimulus package is put together the pvp could be extended and so the second draw program could be extended i just don't know how much more they're going to give small business owners i mean this has been a very extensive program yes a lot of people weren't able to get it but i do just kind of wonder if like they're going to kind of cut it off at some point so we can't guarantee that this is going to extend beyond this initial amount of money and then march 31st so all right i think i'm going to wrap it up you guys um that's been about 30 minutes so and it looks like the the questions are slowing so um i appreciate you guys being here if before you go if you could make sure to like the video that would help me out and help more people see it and then um if you can also make sure you're subscribed you probably are if you saw this live so make sure you're subscribed if you're not already and then make sure you click the like button and then share this with anybody that you know that's kind of in a in a situation where they need to know more about their ppp okay um thank you guys so much lisa says which institutions are funding um a lot of them are funding i mean all the big guys are um online lenders i'm trying to think of who i've heard i've heard good things about square um the even through the forgiveness process square was pretty good i know quickbooks is using somebody i would look at who gusto recommends because they've been keeping an eye on online lenders too um i believe biz2credit is one um i know people got loans through paypal and fundera um but i know the forgiveness process has been a little bit more challenging all right so um maybe ask around see who's gotten a loan and who has had like a good process um just you know administratively to because that that can relieve a lot of headaches all right okay well thank you guys all right bye everyone have a great day