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[Music] [Music] [Music] uh [Music] [Music] [Applause] so [Music] [Music] all right welcome to the latest test talks live uh we're going to be discussing digisign today and getting into how it works looking at a presentation and demo and we'll also be taking a few questions from the audience on that uh we have myself william mckenzie of tesla's comments uh ken garofalo our co-host also of tesla's commons and alan bruce sale of blockchain easy how's everyone doing today perfect thank you doing very well glad to be here glad to uh learn more about the project alone and so for the audience watching i just want to briefly remind you guys that we are doing a legend os tezos engraved giveaway today so the way the flow of this episode will work is we'll go into a presentation after the presentation concludes we're going to mention a keyword for the giveaway at that point you'll enter that keyword into the youtube chat and we'll have a nightbot select at random one of you to be awarded the ledger nano s with the tezos engraving yes so be sure to stick around and look for that but let's go ahead and kick things off and get into a bit into your background uh could you tell us about your background and your you know kind of your crypto journey and i think you're actually at pneumatic labs uh right now could you talk about that yeah hello so hello everybody first of all i want to apologize for my french accent so very sorry if you have difficulties to hear me they said that if you watch that on google in a few more days on youtube you will have some translation on the bottom i don't know maybe right now you can see i'm maybe you cannot see it but i'm happy to be in the nomadic slabs in paris office so they're good partners and because i've got two kids running at home today they invited me to be in a silent place for me in the nomadic slabs place in paris very nice office and indeed nobody's labs is a partner for around a year now so i met with tezos for the first time a year ago so you wanted to know more about myself any questions specific question my story with a cryptocurrency how about a little bit on maybe past education past work just a little bit of insight okay very good so my name is alan rosta if you pronounce it in french i'm born in paris i'm proud supporter of the paris german football team it's like 20 years now i'm working you know i come from fba mba so today i'm i.t expert so don't ask i move from that for the last 20 years i've been a consultant on consulting 2090 consultant in project i've been selling also a lot of software in different markets including in the financial industry around six years ago sorry nine years ago already i met a group called sword group i joined them as an employee and i started managing a team of consultants or up to 50 60 people around document management electronic document management and this is where i learn about digital signature two years ago for various reasons i decided i wanted to try something new so i said i like this big good team of people it's interesting but these topics are no more not even maybe it's it's not original enough for me i wanted to do something different and at the same time you know was the big bitcoin and crypto assets uh buzz early 2018 end of 2017 i was watching that you know a bit curiosity i start digging in it and the first thing i found out is that you can sign document digitally with a blockchain and that's funny because that's what i was doing for a year with other technology so i discovered blockchain and my first love with blockchain was not buying bitcoin or artists or or anything else but about what can i do as an organization with the blockchain technology so this is how i had the idea to create a company called blockchain easy dedicated to consulting and integration on that business and this is what we've been doing for the last two years now helping organizations public and private small and big understand blockchain technology and use them at the right place right time you know for sharing data saving data uh you know signing data and collaboration uh in general yeah it sounds like sorry we'll go ahead i think actually going off uh what you said earlier about sword group uh there's a special announcement you like to make uh pertaining to that yeah indeed so sword group is my firm employee uh employer we also are still good partners so with blockchain easy you know we're working very close relationships basically blockchain easy we are the consultants so me and my partners you know we bring ideas we bring strategical um like advices and we bring technology called experts and thought grew today is our big partner for delivering so development integration on the blockchain technology a few months ago i convinced them so or they've been convinced i'm talking about the top management of sword in france that there is a big future nice feature for groups in the securities token market so they decided that uh we should try we should go in there so the first step was to decide what blockchain that's all the easy choice was tezos and then how and what we decided is first is learning about uh the protocol itself and becoming a baker and i'm very happy to to let everybody know maybe not today maybe not tomorrow but early next week saud in france will be an official corporate baker so we'll be mining uh tez and there are very very few entities corporate entities with 600 employers and sorry collaborators you know mining in a tax and accounting compliant way and is iso 2701 security way you know uh corporate banking farm so i'm very happy of that this is something we've done together and this opens a lot of different uh perspective in terms of projects if you're a bank by the way and if you're looking for a partner corporate partner located in france that can take some of your transaction and confirm you know that it's been baked by a french company call me well that's that's quite an announcement you've made there so a corporate entity is now planning to become a baker or validator within the tezos ecosystem that's huge news i know we just had some news here stateside uh where some companies released that they have bitcoin on their corporate balance sheet so maybe it's not too far away that we start seeing corporate entities holding tesos on their corporate balance sheet how the world has changed um so so for anyone interested in more information on sword group it's spelled s-w-o-r-d group i believe they have a twitter page they're active on and of course you can uh google the website for them uh but next elan we wanna get into the wonderful presentation you have prepared for us today and we want to learn more about the product digi sign that's being built on top of pesos yeah i like how you say it's wonderful before you you see it so everybody i hope you like it and a small uh it's a spoiler but if you don't like powerpoint just move 20 minutes in the future if if you're not today right now live and you will see a quick demo of the of the product so the product i'm going to tell you about is called we call it design and indeed i do have a few screen to share okay so now you should see my powerpoint do you yeah oh yes project is called taser design it's about digital signature and time stamping of documents and data it's an open source project that has been developed by a team of uh organization so you can see blockchain easy here and there my company so we are very happy contributor of this project the key and the biggest part of the project has been done by the thought group indeed a lot all the developments and we're talking about hundreds of main days have been done by this company in france and we've been helped by the r d team of nomadics labs that train us and give us a lot of useful technical tips plus details foundation so i will explain you but we got a grant from tesla's foundation that helped us do much more than what we wanted to do initially small advertising it's in french i'm very sorry because we're based in paris today blockchain easy uh is providing consulting services for organizations that are interesting in blockchain technology or in crypto assets so even if you don't speak french i'm sure you will recognize some of the logos on the bottom side of the screen we are working in different industries the sport industries the electronic contact management or the copyrights and let's say patent business as examples my name uh alain.bluestyle blockchaineasy.com is my email and you can find me on linkedin i'd be very happy to be part of your network so as i explained i'm too old today to i don't know how to use twitter or facebook so very sorry if you want to contact me better to use my email or linkedin also sword in france is a very good partner of us it's a company of around 600 people that is providing i.t services mostly that don't sell people you know it's not a company that is known for selling people uh time and material on client site mostly they deliver fixed price projects on very niche expertise so you see the list of expertise on the screen they're working on and you can see a lot of things around document management like archival portal content services communication content management this is where i come from where you can also you will see a semantic web semantic machine learning chatbot robot rpa is a robot processing automation it's a very innovative technology and one of these new block is the blockchain one so it's an activity that has been launched in 2019 in partnership with blockchain easy so we provide the consulting side and they do provide the delivery if you have questions just ask ken william and now this slide is just about the history of tesla's digi sign i call that the genesis as i told you i'm coming from a background in the electronic content management you know it's managing documents and when you're a big organization like a bank every day you generate millions and sometimes dozen of millions of documents can be powerpoint pdf can be an invoice can be a bank statement so you have to know what you do with that and these are big projects and i love this kind of project around 10 years ago there was a big focus on the industry on digitalization and digital signature so i run a lot of projects around that and it was like blockchain 10 years ago there were no regulation on the market so everybody has a lawyer saying we should do that we should do that maybe we should not oh let's wait for what the european commission saying ah they're not saying anything so exactly what's happening today you know with blockchain and security token or crypto assets so i've been through that we've seen the evolution in 2018 uh we did with the thought group our first project in i will call that notarization of data in a blockchain so we're working for a big public institution and we took data and we generate proof that the data was in that specific aspect at a given time we put the proof in the blockchain and then we say if you want to check just go into the blockchain if you're not certain that we didn't manipulate the data go into the blockchain we did that it was with a private blockchain then we did that for other clients using bitcoin public job chain and ethereum and we are very happy with the results however we had some large clients and i'm speaking about a public organization in france who told us that um they didn't really like bitcoin and ethereum not because of the technology but because of the bad price because it wasn't considered as a green blockchain you know and to be honest it's not very um efficient from an existing point because that's bad press also like money rendering associated with bitcoin and others so they ask us alan if you want us to use such kind of solution you should try to find other blockchain so honestly this is what we did we took the you know coin market cap we checked the list of the 20 biggest blockchain so we decided we wanted a public blockchain for various reasons mostly if you're interested i can go into more detail but for storing a proof on a public on a blockchain we believe that public blockchain is better because you you cannot play with the public blockchain the rules are clear they are known by everyone with a private blockchain you know if you go to a tribunal and say this is the way the private blockchain was working five years ago and they said prove it to me it's more difficult so we wanted a public blockchain and a large one in terms of market cap as a criteria because the largest the more secure basically that's my position and the largest the more tranquility in term of long-term perspective we want the proof to be stored on a long term so if you have a one billion euros market cap i'm pretty certain in 10 years time the blockchain will still be there maybe smaller maybe less people but they will still be present so we don't want we didn't want to go into one of these multiple projects from 2017 that disappeared like uh six months after the the big early 2018. we wanted a green blockchain that people here around the table can understand as a proof-of-tech blockchain or equivalent of proof of tech and we wanted the blockchain it's a transparent public french public administration they didn't want a blockchain with chinese people or only american people they didn't want a blockchain where hackers are developing it or acuras can know what's happening and they didn't want a blockchain we have no idea who's behind it so when they asked me who is developing bitcoin was a bit complex to say to be honest i don't really know and when they say what direction is it theory i'm taking i'm saying uh ethereum 2.0 that was early 2018. so some of you may still i know let me understand the jack but the direction in the governance of these two blockchains were not um satisfying so this is why we like deserts i won't go into the details again i think you understand why tezos was a good uh good solution and then there was this cherry on the cake when our dev team when so we contacted nomadix labs and then they answered in french on the call on the phone really we we were not sure about that but they say yeah if you want training you can come and you will have them in french in paris so that was oh really this blockchain is french or at least rnd comes from france but that was uh the key decision factor that gave us the the will to go into tesos so we went to nomadic's lab and we asked for help we say we need to be trained so we presented the project and they told us guys this project is interesting for us because nobody's doing notarization today on tesos while on ethereum you can find dozen of companies who've been doing that for for four months they say maybe you should ask for a grant which is what we've done and tesla's foundation say we could be interested in co-financing the project if you make it all open source available to the community so we say great don't repeat it don't know that we plan initially to have it open source anywhere but we made it open source and instead of doing a a project with let's say less cost for us but we decided to make a bigger project with a larger scope so initially it was supposed to be just back office server for you know time stamping document and we added some graphical interface and extra feature to make it more like sexy for for anyone lon maybe this is a good time for me to interrupt with a question here so you've pretty much explained uh you know why you went to direction of tezos it's pretty clear here um but i'm curious in regards to maybe from the corporate client prospects point of view are they concerned that their information although it is stored with a hash encoded function right are they concerned that that hash is stored in a public blockchain which potentially has nodes in countries all over the world and maybe a country they don't want their information to be stored in so maybe this is something like a russia a china right are they confident enough that the encryption techniques will sufficiently encrypt the document or is there like an education barrier there that you have to explain to them uh that their information is safe so so you you you you said it you you gave the word ash or for technical people you know what it is you know it's about generating so you take a document and you generate so it can be smaller big documents you put it into a hashing algorithm and give you a small chain of like 64 or 128 characters the same document always gave the same hash so if you change the document the ash is not the same so the idea is you generate the ash you put it into the block chain and 10 years after you say look at my document i calculate the ash this is the same i have in the blockchain it's a proof the document didn't change and this principle of hash calculation especially in the document management sector is not new it doesn't come from the blockchain we added 30 years ago already or 25 years ago this is the way electronic content management system you know works for storing documents comparing them so the principle in term of cryptography was is very well appreciated and because we're not in financial sector because there is no problem if the data is available in data that country it's actually a strong point that typically tells us work the same way in france and in north korea or in china because the proof i have generated here in france can be accepted in a tribunal in china or in australia or anyone else so it's mostly a good thing in our business case and have you had any experience working with any government agencies that might be using this technology and do they express the same kind of acceptance yeah actually these comments on blockchain and bitcoin and serum came from government agencies what i call public organization are government agencies sorry for my french so yes they're interested and yes they're asking themselves a lot of questions they are to move but you know look in france i don't know for other countries but in france if you if you get married the document that the cto will give you is in paper if you have a baby they give you a document in paper if you go to jail you have a document in paper they don't do pdf file for that it's a shame so we are still quite far you know from signing digital documents one of the reasons is they are they're afraid of fraud so they prefer to stick on you know i really like stems real good old stem so dg or manual signature then going full digital so the idea with this kind of tool is going full digital for a cheap price so i think you're setting important precedence there for other projects that may be wanting to work with a public blockchain such as tezos and may not know if their corporate client or prospect or the government prospect the public prospect wants to use a public chain infrastructure so you've already proved the point that they do want it so just wanted to reiterate there but i don't know if i've proven anything but this is my point of view actually if you speak french you know on the website of blockchain easy you will find a white paper wrote with some lawyers the proof that you will bring so if you ever know one of the reasons you want to sign digitally documents is because you may need to go for a litigation process to a tribunal and if you come to a tribunal to explain how it worked the timestamp the storage the immutability of the blockchain and all of that and you say it's a private blockchain me and my friend we set up my point of view and the lawyers were talking to is that for the judges like you're saying it's my like excel spreadsheet you can do whatever you want in it of course there is cryptography but good luck to explain your cryptography but if you put blockchain in a big one and you say look this is tezos there are hundreds of thousands of hundred of people you know who can explain you the way tezos works in many countries or ask an expert and he will confirm you let me they will confirm that the way to those works in china in 2020 in the same way it worked today in france or in the usa so we prefer public blockchain for storing this kind of proof and because we started to discuss like details before we went to the basics what do we do so what we address is the notion of digital signature so that's a wording that many people don't understand exactly it's because behind that there is two different notion one is let's call it time stamping or ceiling so i've got a document i'm not interested in the content of the document i just want to be able to prove that my document is in my hands today and possibly in the future prove that the document that i'm showing to someone is an original one it comes from me hasn't been middle with you know proving it's its integrity so i will call that digital timestamping or digital ceiling if i take the vocabulary used by the european commission and on the other side most people understand by digest nature the notion of consent i as a private individual give my consent to the content of the document i agree with the document a digital signature today for most people in the real life it's only about contract signature i signed a contract with my bank i signed a contract with i don't know what so i give my consent and i don't move it's kind of cool you know i'm sitting yeah i'm sitting here i can sign a document without moving around without stamping with that paper i'm giving my consent but it's a different need from the digital timestamp and we'd love to go into the digital consent side with tesla's design just needs uh some extra works that we won't do today because at the moment we're focusing on the needs of the cooperation around digital timestamp let me give you some examples i'd like to cut in and ask a quick question um so you made a good point earlier about you know being cheaper and the actual benefits behind blockchain but what other potential use cases can you see arising from the usage of these digital signatures uh degrees certifications or what else can you see there the timing of your question is perfect look at the slide we didn't plan people you should know about that so what i want so yeah the cost is very important i will explain you but today it's expensive to sign documents and because it's expensive the organization the big corporation the public uh like government agencies they ask you to sign basically only contracts uh and all other documents almost none of them are signed but look at this example an invoice so you are an enterprise a big one a telco company energy company i don't know car company you generate hundreds of thousands of invoice every day or every week and invoice is important because there is a big amount in it a lot of people say i didn't receive it it's not my invoice not the good amount not to me i there is a date and that you have payment time please pay within 30 days after that date so the document itself is important now i'm pretty sure that 95 to 99 percent of invoices generated in western eu european countries are digitalized that wasn't the case 5-10 years ago but still they're not signed so if you receive a document and say this is the invoice i received and you photoshopped it or you modified it thanks to adobe you know modification uh you can pay for the extra module for adobe so you can change the pdf there is many way you can make a fraud you know like you can change the document and or you can even better you know the fraud to you can have a fraud you can contact your client organization and say i am your supplier you have to pay me this is the invoice but instead of putting the bank account details of the real supplier you put yours you know this kind of fraud happens every day and the company they cannot verify if the pdf is a real one or not a real one so that's an example an invoice but because you sign 10 of thousands of invoices every day if you have to pay even one cent for documents it's too much so people don't do it um let's go to the other examples you sign contract but you don't sign the quotes or the proposal which is almost as important as the contract itself in the banking business the trade finance business i don't know if you know about it letter of credit stuff like that it's full of documents many of them are stealing papers some adjectives arise it costs a lot of money to sign them so not all documents are um professional accreditation so there is a bunch of projects right now in europe where is that physician a real physician did you really get the diplomacy yes is it really a shutter content did you really get his uh like is he a real official notary you know who received the accreditation by some kind of government agency ah do you check that so if there is no database public to you and most of them there is not what they do they come to you with a pdf file like a diploma it's accreditation saying i'm the guy and you want to check that so there is a lot of a lot maybe five or six startups today working on that you know signing diplomas signing accreditation one of the examples i really like because this one is taking to their there is really good project on the market it's ip intellectual property so is there other organization you want you have a patent that you're going to ask for a big one you know maybe the coronavirus vaccine it's a lot 700 of millions of euros or dollars involved so you have to prove that you've done everything before and that the r d your work is yours and if you got a company coming from another country saying hey i've done that before you it's me you have a claim you have to go to tribunal and you have to work to prove that you've been working on that before and that they stole your documents so you have to sign your works you have to sign in all documentation justification that you could have and because it cost a lot of money today you don't sign it so you have no proof you have other way of proving the proof but it's not digitally signed so now imagine you can sign every day all the codes all the documents everything you're doing and you sign it like almost for free you are in the department that is going to ask for big buttons is protected artists another layer of protection if they ever need to to prove anything and if you move into the other side of the ip writes the copyrights so i'm taking an example i know that some of you like twitter or instagram you take a nice picture of me today you put it on your facebook lots of people take them and tomorrow i'm the first page of i don't know cnn international so i say guys this is my intellectual property or yours maybe because you took the picture so you're asking for the money and someone said no it's not yours i found it on the internet it's public source open source how do you prove it's yours my ideas when you take your picture before you publish it stamp it and so you have the proof like in terms of time and signature that it's yours because nobody can say no nobody would be able to say i had it before so in terms of copyrights there was also on the blockchain lots of projects and failures also in the past for pictures music and other type of uh like ip ip signature and many of these uh failures were due to the cost because if it's one cent per picture you know how many pictures we take with a smartphone today hundreds so it's still too expensive so we have to make it even cheaper then another use case if you have any specific questions yeah the use case that i could probably relate to most is trade finance use case where uh previously i used to work at a custodian bank and we'd have these large wire transfers to process you know numerous times throughout the day and we'd have to verify wire instructions with the counterparty and there was you know rather you know outdated experience where you're validating these over the phone and there had to be a better way to do it so i could imagine if you're uploading these documents and you know signing them digitally you could share that with your counterparty and it'd be more insurance that you're providing the correct instructions and there'll be less instances of sending the wire to the wrong bank which is unbelievable but it happens in to the tone of you know billions of dollars where you're just sending to the wrong bank you should be at city but it's at jpm and how do you get that back you have to rely on faith so you could avoid making a billion dollar mistake using this solution here um but i wonder with all these different use cases you have various different industries involved that may not know how to work you know the product itself if it's not you know extremely user friendly they may not know how to purchase xtz to fund this kind of activity so i wonder what kind of effort you're doing to help limit that barrier to entry for all these different industries um so you're absolutely right because it's new notion because nobody's doing it today nobody's signing the invoices as i told you so you have to explain why it's interesting to them they don't come to you naturally to say hey do you have a blockchain solution to sign my invoice not they don't do that so we have to explain met them once time that they have questions about the legal environment then when it's technical to be honest i will explain that but the solution is kind of easy to install if you have an i.t department so i'm sorry if you're a private individual watching this video if you're not a developer yourself you may have some issues by to install it because we don't provide a turnkey service it's a it solution containers to install and then they have to understand the way the blockchain works so this is very it's very interesting actually uh we have some clients in the um like innovation department of large group they say hey maybe we could use that as a way to initiate ourselves to to explain what is blockchain to people because we need to buy xt so it means that we need to have a wallet so it means we will i will show you no we need to explore the like blockchain so we need to understand how it works you're telling me that this is a proof-of-stake explaining what it is or delegated uh proof-of-stake or even more so this is very interesting um so and this is our business model we give for free a very nice solution but we sell services around it to help organization uh implement it okay that's interesting to know the the implementation is where the consulting side comes in from your firm to be honest it's kind of easy to install if you if you already know about it it's very easy to use so what i hope is that maybe one of you watching it will call me and say i want to use it but i don't understand anything so this is good because i can sell a bit more consulting but it's kind of technically easy to install like a few hours yeah is this solution uh only currently on v1 right now yeah so we called it v1 actually we are the first client in production before the wii v1 but we committed to quality level you know to the foundation so we had a list of requirements and a certain level of quality so we finished the development by end of july august was about quality check or did card testing by some other companies and by the foundation early september we decided it was good enough to be published as v1 so now we're already thinking about you know upgrades to other versions but we don't know how much we want to do it by ourselves or we want it to be animated by community so anyone interested to be part of the core team let me know but there will be more and this is a good time to remind the audience watching if you have any questions please feel free to write them in the comments section if you're on the youtube channel or even comment them on twitter if you're watching there or facebook so uh very interested here if you want to go ahead and proceed yeah okay so just to come back to why is it expensive so i will explain also this this may interest you because not blockchain related but digital signature or digital timestamping is now regulated so in 2014 for example in europe after 14 years of nothing we had a good regulation like blockchain you know after 14 years of nothing in 2022 we'll have a good regulation so it comes in france it's called e-i-das it's in the usa you have the e-sign act and lots of other countries have their own you know regulations this regulation they kind of it's a the framework where they say please respect these technical rules respect these technical processes respect these good practices and then you can sign or seal documents digitally typically they have a lot of rules about how to check the identity of someone digital identity which is actually another very good topic for for tesos they say we need to have a strong authentication method authentication method and depending on what kind of signature you need it can be some strong authentication or very very strong authentication where you have to prove by multiple ways of who you are they say you need to have a secure timestamping system but secure stamping system is not something uh uh if you want to do it by yourself i'm saying good luck you know because if you install whatever you want on your computer can you prove that your computer is on the right time it's not that easy and you have to prove also that the proof you generate are stored and cannot be act by anyone to make it simple it's not simple it's complex if you want to do everything correctly there is a lot of layers of technology processes to add it cost a lot of money to be fully compared with the regulation and except a few large organizations almost all others decided okay the only way we can do it is by delegating we need to subcontract so they're looking for what i would call trusted third parties not the docusign using adobe sign sign all these companies have taken the time to implement the right servers to go through audit process with the local are proposing good services for checking the identity delivering digital certificates proposing secure timestamping servers holding the proof they propose also nice graphical interface you know so because because it's expensive people only sign contract and if you want to sign a contract you need to see it you need to agree on it you need to read the small details and you know what when they say please add use in nature i love it because there is no legal reason in doing that just for for the fun the the environment but the researcher doesn't need this uh smaller design it just makes the signer more committed to the document because it's like one more click in the process and then archiving the document because these trusted third parties they'll ask you for a document and this is very fun because these are your most sensible documents and the first thing you do is you're sending it to a third parties that you don't really know and they will store it on their uh server so people coming from the crypto anarchist say you know the blockchain decentralized world i'm sure they love the idea that your most sensitive document are stored by a third party and going through the network when you're doing that so the conclusion that it's expensive because these third parties they need money you know they make a business out of it so they ask for money and they ask for a lot of money and it's mostly justified so if you just want a stamp in europe at least at least in france and my experience is you can have it between 10 to 20 cent document so if you have 100 000 invoices to sign tonight it's already too expensive if you're on university a cheap budget and you want to sign ten thousand diploma every two months i don't know you don't have the money to do that and then if you want a good digital signature using the graphically interface multiple you know check for identity it can easily cost you like two to two euros and even more to get it happen or even in terms of contracts you don't have the complete signature for every type of contract and the conclusion because it's expensive you sign only critical documents and it's not even uh half a percent of the total number of documents that an organization is from i think about it you're watching me think about all the documents that you created today be on your computer excel word pdf picture music whatever you're doing and tell me or just write in the twitter feeds and i don't have to tell like ken or william how many times did you save and sign them today and i know the answer is zero so what we want to do it's pretty easy is uh provide documents transparency to all it's a help you sign documents or timestamped them with no trusted server parties therefore almost no cost and to do so to reach that we're using the tesos decentralized network so this would be a good time to ask the question of at the current state what does it cost to sign a document using uh the solution you have and if it still needs to be lowered maybe version two version three will get that cost down what is the uh the pinnacle cost that you see you needing to achieve before you're gonna you know achieve mass adoption for electronic signing so today we so we don't provide a service you know we provide code so it's on gitlab you can go so there is a cost for having the environment installing the system configurating it so let's say if you forget about this cost the demand you know the main days you need to install the server once in system um you can we need you know the only cost we have to pay out the transaction into the telus network so the fees associated with the transaction and so the fees are i think right now 0.1 test per transaction so like 20 cents more or less maybe someone can correct me so but the the nice thing we've done and this is part of the r d is that you can sign not one document person you can sign one document per transaction if you want but if you want to sign one hundred thousand for the same selection you can so what we're doing we're using uh merkel trees so if you're a blockchain technical guy i guess you know about merkel trees you know if you're not uh ask me the question answer it but the idea is in one transaction you can sign as many documents as you want so if you sign 1000 documents for 20 i do the calculation it's kind of very cheap almost free if you decide to sign like three times a day only once a day for your organization because you don't want you you don't need like time stamping every 10 minutes you just want the date so it cost you 20 cents per day so at the end of the year it's like a you know a good party with friends or a few beers but it's not very expensive does it answer the question can yeah it does and i think that you know as gas limits get risen and maybe future network upgrades these contracts will will become cheaper to interact with and you know as version two version three come out of your platform i think there are ways that uh you can lower that price even further so i'm glad to hear that and hold on uh just want to remind you of the time here so we want to see that demo we want to see this product in use so uh if you could just bear in mind that uh maybe 10 minutes here for the rest of the presentation you should have told me before sorry about that just before i show you the product i just want to explain that there is a server for signature so this is what proposed on gitlab there is another server to interact with the blockchain this is where we store the private key this is how we interact with the nuts and then it's full of api so there are systems that can connect and say i want to sign a document i want to check the documents and we also provide a graphical user interface and this is what i'm going to show you it's for demonstration purposes so in your business environment could be completely different because it's api mean that you can implement it on your own website smartphone and have it completely different okay you should have told me about the time so this is uh one thing here before we get into the demo i just want to give the audience uh the key word here for the giveaway of the ledger nano s uh this is something the audience will go ahead and enter into the youtube chat right now it is going to be exclamation point signed by tezos and it's going to be a capital s and a capital t so exclamation point capital s i g n e d b y capital t e z o s all right guys go ahead and enter that into the youtube chat now and thank you ellen go ahead yep okay so quickly i will um show you the so i won't make as long a demo as i wanted initially we'll make it quicker so i'm logging to this system i am do you know about the demo effect when nothing works the way you want i really hope i won't have it today okay so i'm in the back office side of the server so here i can ask for signing documents adjust your ud id you decide what algorithm you want to use like shot 2c56 you give a name to the job so i said this is uh like a test up you decide what document you want to sign so the documents have never been sent to any server it's just on front so this is the hash of the document for the people interested and you click on signing and that's done so it's not signed yet we prepared the merkel tree we prepare the transaction we send it to tesos and our this is what we configure we decided that we will consider the signature the timestamping being done after 30 rounds of validation of baking just for security reason so we have to wait a little bit in the back of this side you know you can look for the documents to know the history have they been signed or not you can uh check what's going on technically so we are not going to do that right now what i will show you is what happens when it is signed so for example this one up no sorry the press release tesos digi sign document so i've just put a pdf file so the pdf file is i downloaded actually the other day from the nomadic lab website i didn't touch the pdf file i've just been the first to use it i signed it using the graphical interface so what i'm telling you yes this file is certified by alan bustai sign on that date for demonstration purposes let me explain you what happened so this is the hash of the document so what we've done is we've been into the blockchain this is the name of the transaction this is the name of the block this is the time stamping of the block so this is the time stamping we use for the transaction and we know that this document has been signed by that key private public key and we the website knows that behind that key is alambustai because we've done the check when i enrolled myself so there is still a trustee a trust party which is this website is telling behind that key is a number style we do can generate like proof files to explain all of that and just want to show you so this document is a two nine e seven eight so those we don't know what this is this is a desert stat so this is where i go and explore the blockchain i'm on cartagenet so the testnet this is the smart contract where we store the proof the big map is where i do have all my data stored and if i go what date was that it was tuesday i think on the 12th yep here okay i think this is the document so you have written in the blockchain in a way in a session that nobody can move now nobody can delete that information you can see that this hash has been signed by that key and that it's me i do on the private key and this hash is the document so if in 10 years time someone is telling me allah and this is not the document you showed us this is not the right thing i can say look take my pdf file recalculate the ash go into that place in the blockchain and just compare and not come back to me and try to explain me this is not the same one or i modified it so that's a good point your episode the 10-year time frame is that sort of like the default that this stuff will be stored on the blockchain and why is it this 10-year time frame that we talk of it's not 10 years to be honest it's depend on what kind of document you want to sign there are documents there is no you mean this is okay but in some cases like legal cases you want to there is a certain number of time you want to to wait uh hr payroll in france is 30 years i'm not going to use tesla for that i'm going to rely on other technology a leasing contract i think it's seven years after the end of the leasing contract but like for my invoice to be honest i don't think after one year i still need it except if i go have a litigation process so the duration litigation process maybe it's two three years maximum so 10 is more than enough and very interesting and yeah to think has this predictable governance the on-chain governance mechanism that say if anything were to change in the future such as i don't know maybe rent being charged for smart contracts being stored on the blockchain uh that would all be predictable so the clients using the system would be able to calculate what the cost would be going forward for them yeah and i've heard that the cost will be lower very soon actually so maybe divide it by two or three so we'll test and let you know but i think the cost will be even cheaper very soon and just before i stop i just want everybody to know there is a git lab uh and in that gitlab you have all the documentation and look you know what we've done it in english so it's french english but still you've got all the documentation about the project in english you've got the code you've got we even done what we call a quick start uh explanation so yeah you need to be the big geeky you need an environment but if you're a bit geeky basically if you have a developer or itunes engineering background it will take you less than two three hours i think to install the solution and the very last good news it's like it's completely open source and we decided to put it open source free of charge so you can use it commercially without asking anyone from us the only thing we ask and it's written in the rule is let us know if you use it because we're interested in knowing it that's it excellent so anyone watching right now go ahead to this gitlab gitlab page and experiment with the code out there and see if you can come up with an implementation of your own um so will i was wondering if we have a winner yet for that ledger nls uh yes we do uh the winner is ryan keane uh ryan you'll need to send an email over to social at teslascommons.org and uh we're also gonna request that you send a screenshot of your youtube credentials congratulations on winning the ledger can i ask what ledger is it nano s yes it's a tezos branded legend uh nano s i just want to say that you can bake corporately with a nano s this is what we decided to use uh for baking at sword group oh nice yeah that's good to know that extra security for the the new validator that will be soon coming online for a sword there so very interesting stuff we were really glad to have you on board here today elan and is there anything in closing that you'd like to say no no thank you very much for the invitation anyone interested even i'm sorry i must lie but i like to talk so people are interested they come to me and i'll be happy to give more information yeah absolutely for anyone interested in continuing this conversation you can reach out to a line on www.blockchain.ez.com we'll have that website linked in the description of the video and it was such a pleasure of having you on here and having you demo digi sign and really showing how the evolution of the tesla's ecosystem is evolving here and we're just glad to uh to have you on for today's talk so uh for anyone who wants to know more information on tesla's commons in test talks you can go to tesoscommons.org backslash test talks to see our upcoming schedule of guests and re-watch some of the old great video content that we have you can also follow tesso's comments on twitter youtube instagram all the other normal social medias so uh for myself for will and for a lot thank you so much for watching guys until next time take care