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hey everybody welcome back to another episode of the catholic talk show today we're going to be talking about five things people get wrong about the pope yeah we're going to look at the most common misconceptions about the pope and tell you the truth about the successor of saint peter this show is all about pulp fiction all right really excited to be back in the studio with you guys i love this topic really interested in a lot of this stuff so i'd like to get started it's true there's a there's a lot of misconceptions about the pope out there and hopefully this show will be able to dispel all of them yeah i think that's the thing that non-catholics probably have the most questions about the most misunderstandings about because it's really the thing that's maybe most unique among the christian denominations that us the true church has the pope and that's the thing that really differentiates us from protestants right is having that successor of jesus as the visible sign of unity in our church so we're going to get through all those today and and talk about those things that people really either use to slander the church or really deeply misunderstand about the church and i think it would be really important to just start out with scripture right away and then we're going to jump into the catechism and like these five leading things right that that people definitely get wrong so from matthew 16 18 jesus said to him and replied blessed are you simon son of jonah for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but my heavenly father and so i say to you you are peter and upon this rock i will build my church and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it it's important to realize the identity the identification that jesus expresses in the in the nature of who peter is in relationship to the church and one thing he is not is jesus christ he is the vicar of christ so we're going to jump into that a little bit more deeply here so where do we start what's the first one so i think the first one we'll kind of combined two to start right and i think these ones are kind of interchangeably misunderstood and that's papal infallibility and papal impeccability now there's a big difference between the two but that first one papal infallibility that's the one that really gets everyone's druthers up they're like well what is this well the pope can't be wrong and that comes from a really deep misunderstanding about how the church teaches the truths of the faith and how it protects the safeguard of both tradition and the teachings of the gospel so what is papal infallibility papal infallibility is when the pope has the ability to define a dogma the pope does not have the ability to create a new dogma he can't say well i now say that you're not allowed to have a beer and since i'm the pope beer is outlawed it doesn't work like that it's never something that's adding to the deposit of the faith that's always something that is clarifying definitively a matter that has always been held by the church and and to even think of the word infallibility you know the to consider what's fallacious what's what's wrong or what's filled with error um infallibility means literally etymologically is just it's without error yeah you know so the holy father has a specific role in relationship to infallibility but so does every other bishop but it's important to realize that it's not the pope himself that's infallible it's jesus christ's teaching which is the deposit of the faith that's received by the apostles the apostolic college is one that discerns as a magisterial body that sense of how do we define and help to articulate with clarity what jesus who is infallible is is sharing with humanity because it's a share from the apostolic college really in jesus's infallibility i think that's a really important thing to express yeah and most of it is you know like you said it's just proclaiming something that's already true or held in the church and through cultural or you know timing and things like that that come up where that needs to be done because we see so much of our faith that's been defined or proclaimed in that manner through you know contention or uh you know councils and things like that so i was kind of an interesting dynamic there but what what exactly would it be like you know if you know if you're you're talking about the pope saying something infallible like it would be like a body of people you know college of cardinals or you know a curia coming in an ecumenical council right there so there's actually there's actually a difference between that so there are things that the church can teach infallibly that doesn't need a proclamation of in papal infallibility right there can be things like the teaching of uh it's murder right well the whole church in accordance with scripture and tradition says murder is wrong that is an infallible teaching that is proclaimed by the church in general not from specifically an excathedra statement of the pope so there's four conditions for a papal teaching to be considered infallible and those conditions are that the pope speaks as the universal doctor and shepherd so he is really he's speaking in his place of primacy as the successor of peter and the vicar of christ right but that's one of the conditions because now the pope can say well i think you should get a vaccine well he's not speaking from a place as peter the doctor of the church yeah he's not speaking as peter he's speaking as you know the pope there's a difference right you know the pope can have an opinion on the death penalty that is not necessarily infallible or or any matter you know any number of matters the second condition is that he is using his full apostolic authority again he's using that that role of the petrine ministry okay the third is that he expresses clearly his will to define right it's not saying well that sounded pretty authoritative he no he has to specifically say i am defining x matter and that the fourth is that the matter defined deals with faith or morals and that has to be in conjunction with all of the bishops of the church those are the conditions for a statement to be papally infallible and it's only been used twice as we know it only two times and that's the most important factor here to consider is that this has only been used very very rarely and with great clarity the definitive action of the pope speaking ex cathedra out of out of his patron office out of the seat of the successor of saint peter it is his role to to express in that definitive manner proper teachings as it relates to faith and morals and you know school's out on on how many times it's happened so some people say two some people say seven six or seven some people say eight but consider like under ten times has this definitively been done by a pope throughout the history of the catholic church over 2000 years and what i what i've been praying about and thinking about relating to this uh topic so many non-catholics and even catholics get this wrong but when it comes to our brethren of like evangelical background baptist background the sola scriptura background when it comes to infallibility they're right there with us in respect to the infallible teachings of jesus and they have specific bodies of people and elders in a way that discern what what are the teachings and how are we going to apply now it's it's beautiful to consider that we do have relationships in that same manner but we have them all the way back to the successors of the apostles with that lineage all the way back to peter in the scripture scriptural foundation of that role you know here's a good analogy and what you're saying how we even protestants will have a council of elders who will define or discuss with things you know you guys both like football and you've watched football games right and there's a there's a completion but you know is his foot inbound did he maintain possession through the act of the catch well the rules are very clear the rule book is the rule book and this is what defines a catch right and those are not up for debate that in this analogy is the teaching of christ the rules and the truth are not up for debate but how did this specific situation get interpreted through those rules right is this really that so although you have the referees and the umpires they're like well i think it was a catcher there was like i don't know well someone throws a challenge flag right that's a cultural upheaval you go to the review and then they send it to new york and new york says definitively because they are the ones who have the power to define that and they have the rule book and say well in this situation right here with the rules this is it and no coach no player no referee even on the field can overrule it and that's really kind of what happens here with these statements of papal infallibility and thank god for those structures i mean where would the game be in football without those that type of structural organization madness but even more so you know we have over 60 000 denominations of christianity right now which is grievous you know like jesus expresses that you know the father wants us to be one just as he is one with the father you know but to where would christianity be without that type of structural organization and and a sense of leaning into that internal control over dogma and doctrine and infallibility in this case you know heaven is ordered heaven is ordered and structured with hierarchy that is the nature of the creator god to do things and create things that have a structure and an order in a greater level of perfection and wouldn't the church founded on that rock of saint peter have that same structure wouldn't it reflect the heavenly structure and because in his goodness and wisdom he knows that human beings need that structure and they need that ability to arbitrary rules and arbiter teachings when they are not clear because that is why we have 60 000 denominations because well i don't i disagree with you we're fine we're our own church and those disagreements without somebody who was appointed by christ to um pastor in those situations leads to that terrible and grievous division within the body of christ and and it also points to how important it is for bishops to be in communion and college together because we need to have ministers who administer the greater union and fabric of our respect for the holy father and the successors of the apostles and i think this is a perfect segue to have contact with the catechism and what the catechism expresses as it relates to infallibility before we move to impeccability and what that what that means so the mission of the magisterium this is in the teaching office of the church the mission of the magisterium is linked to the definitive nature of the covenant established by god with his people in christ it is the magisterium's task to preserve god's people from deviations and defections and to guarantee them the objective possibility of professing the true faith without error this is going exactly to your point shield thus the pastoral duty of the magisterium is aimed at seeing to it that the people of god abides in the truth that liberates that ultimately ultimately frees our humanity and our communion with one another to fulfill this service christ endowed the church's shepherds with the charism of infallibility and matters of faith and morals the exercise of this charism takes several forms so these are the several forms the roman pontiff head of the college of bishops enjoys the infallibility and virtue of his office when a supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful who confirms his brethren the faith proclaims a definitive act of doctrine pertaining to the faith of morals the infallibility promised to the church is also present in the body of bishops when together with peter's successor they exercised the supreme magisterium above all in an ecumenical council when the church through its supreme magisterium proposes a doctrine for belief as being divinely revealed and as the teaching of the christ's definitions must be adhered to with obedience of faith this infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine revelation itself all the way back to jesus the incarnation and the person of christ you know and that goes back to matthew 16 18 that you read earlier is that well i found i i found my church on you but he also said the gates of hell will not prevail against it well unless there is a bulwark against those forces of hell things will prevail against it unless there are strong foundations and now you mentioned right there that the church in its teaching right ecumenical councils can define things that are that are dogma that are revealed truths divinely in divinely revealed and then defined by a council that's one way that a dogma can be established another way is through the ordinary and universal magisterium right so some people conjecture that uh uh ordinaccio sacramentalis john paul ii was a papaly infallible statement when he said that men that women cannot be priests but really the vatican said no this is something that is taught by the entire church not by a statement this is a reaffirmation almost like you know a council without the meeting now they're the two times that are very clear that papal infallibility have been used are the immaculate conception and the assumption of mary 1854 1950 but some scholars would say there's up to seven for example like leo the first the tome de flavian um where they say he sent a letter to the council of chelsea right or the letter of pope agatho on the two wills of christ to the council of constantinople because looking back back at them as we now understand papal infallibility they had those four marks right the desire to teach teach you know and it and it brought the defective commun communities that were separating themselves right back together into one so those are like the three ways that dogma can be defined through counsel through uh papal infallibility or through the universal and accepted ordinary magisterium now the second one is kind of the flip side of that where well the pope can't be wrong in certain conditions the pope cannot be wrong that's just that but the the thing that it gets conflated with is that the pope can't be bad that the pope can't make a mistake and that's the second thing that people misunderstand is papal impeccability which means the pope can't be a bad guy the pope can't do things that are wrong and that's not true i mean we've done an episode on the worst popes you know those the hillbillies of rome the theophile and let me tell you brother they did some bad things yeah right right there if you're sitting there thinking that we have the worst pope in the history of the world and you're in these different sidings of politics you know read the history books yeah you know read the history books but it's all related to how important is the role of peter in his church and all of his successors including the theophyllactive in that respect and thank god because it has held together the church even in times of great sin and disdain impeccability is that piccati like sin that you this this the pope is without sin that is absolutely false you know the book of proverbs expresses very clearly that the righteous person sins seven times a day but the distinction is that the the sinful person actually gets back up on his feet you know where the wicked person is doomed to destruction so we have to pray for our pope just like we need to pray for our pastors our bishops our brothers and sisters all of the faithful and even for the conversion of sinful humanity like in in a constant manner you know people out there watching this who watch other youtube channels that are i don't know more extreme than ours well they think pope francis is the worst pope ever pope francis is probably historically you know an average pope that's not saying anything bad about his you know it's not terrible it's not leo or you know gregory the great or anything he's an average pope but one thing that he does that i think is really particularly good and that talks to this papal impeccability is that you'll see him very publicly in the middle of a procession he'll stop and he'll go to the confessional and he will have he will make his confession very publicly showing he is a sinner right popes sin just like everybody else catholics don't believe that the pope can't sin catholics don't even believe that most of the popes were good you know a lot of them have been real clunkers right i mean you've had popes who've murdered people and popes who've had children and popes who had all kinds of terrible debauchery going on yep popes who renounced jesus christ three times yeah and happened to be so yeah you know catholics don't believe that popes can't sin everyone's sins all have fallen short right all sin the righteous man sins seven times a day now before we get on to our third one padre why don't you tell people how they can follow us and learn more about us that's right so if you want to follow us on social media be sure to check us out on facebook instagram and twitter at catholictalk show also if you're viewing our content you cannot wait a single moment to subscribe and click the bell so that whenever we produce a show or any content it will populate in your feed and you won't miss one minute of catholic talk show content if you're exploring other ways to listen in even on your commute check out catholictalkshow.com there you'll see every way that you could listen in we're on spotify google play stitcher and so many other forums so check out catholic talk show today and you could also see ways that you could support our show we wouldn't be able to produce this show without our patrons so if you're considering becoming a financial contributor to the show please go to patreon.com forward slash catholic talk show there you'll see every way that you could support us and we want to share our appreciation and our gratitude for all the people who are our patrons to support us each and every week we thank you and god bless you thanks padre absolutely so let's get into another one ryan and this is one that you and i were talking about a little bit that i think you had a lot of insights as to why it's such a stumbling block for you know protestants and non-catholics oh yeah the the sec or the third one is going to be the pope is that we we worship the pope um and uh you know i grew up in the bible belt and you know there's a a lot more protestants than there were catholics and i think a lot of them you know it's just kind of a spirit it's just kind of a dissing spirit of the catholic church and this is just lumped in like if you know if i met somebody and somebody gossiped about them and said hey you know watch out for this guy he's you know a bad doctor or whatever like i wouldn't take their word for it i'd probably you know if i did want to understand if the guy was practicing medicine well and i wanted to use him i'd probably dive a little bit deeper into it so we got to understand even with infallibility and all this stuff it's like if people don't even like make the effort to try to understand like you're gonna get stuff like this yeah right i mean like that spirit is kind of like there uh another thing is uh howard and i we howard mentioned just earlier about when we were in dc and we went to go see pope benedict there were all these guys dressed as priests on the way out and they were handing out these like chick tracts you know and they're like the pope is the antichrist he is you know so you know again it's just like it's it's a it's sort of like this mental exercise of just hey i'm just going to keep my distance from the catholic church this sounds like a pretty good yeah and that's because there's no real proof you can't it's true if you if you dive as deep as you want you're not going to find that catholics worship the pose you're not even going to come close and that's the that's the unfortunate people are not digging deep into looking into something it's it's almost like hearsay what you're what you're talking about and i've seen that in my own life too yeah and i got friends that are you know non-denominational baptist whatever um and you know we're friends and like i appreciate their faith and if i have a question about it i ask them to try to understand it a little bit more there's nothing wrong with that you got to understand most of the people that are saying these things are not only not informed but they don't want to be informed right this is just a common thing or it's a direct challenge to the structure of their beliefs right right because in the church there is a there's an importance and a primacy of the position of the pope because of those reasons we just talked about having that arbiter who can clearly teach on the deposit of faith now you have these other denominations and well they've set themselves up as that little that little poem there we got sixty thousand little popes running leadership everybody's got it and that's so true and and really it i've met so many baptists so many protestants and it's all about the culture of their particular fellowship and their leadership their leadership because i've i've had phenomenal relationships with baptist brethren i've had phenomenal relationships with protestant brethren that were never taught that catholics are evil true but then at the same time i've had other experiences as well you know i think people have encounters with christ through their church legitimate encounters with christ in their church and through that they want to participate and they want to give themselves to the service of the ministry that they have this encounter with christ for you know i mean it's it's a normal thing to do when you start getting into the dismissive things there's nuances to it where you'll see somebody on tv who's like evangelist televangelist and then they just throw in you don't need religion and i'm like you're reading scripture this is a product of the authority of the catholic church yes like you don't have to go far to understand this this is where it came from not only that but it was preserved by monasteries in writing before the printing press came out so for 900 years and whatever it was we the catholic church was saving this book for you so you could start your little church you know that's what i mean that same authority that they decried that the pope has they acknowledge they acknowledge that's what they don't but they don't that same authority is what defined what things well we only believe in the bible well it's the bible is only the way it is because the pope and the catholic church set it up that way but i've seen the bridge happen right right whenever that bridge is laid people are genuinely like wow i didn't know that the church taught that right and you have sponsored so many people coming into the faith you're currently sponsoring a couple which i always love hearing the updates and and you know like how that's going but for my from my seat as a pastor with my rcia candidates and catechumens when i see them lock into their catechism and they're actually reading it and they're like whoa let's talk about this real quick you know and it's like they're they're coming in contact with the authoritative teaching the definitive teaching of the successors of the apostles the magisterium of the church and they are feasting upon it and it and it shows that light and that life that excitement yeah and you i mean you live that in your in your own uh catholicism yeah so i mean have you either have you ever prayed and worshiped the pope i don't think any any catholic has ever done if they did if a catholic worships the pope they're not catholic by the very virtue of saying that catholics worship the pope you misunderstand it if a catholic worth should worship the pope they're not catholic they're a heretic no one is do worship besides the trinity but i mean like you would be remiss to find anybody in history that worshipped the pope scripture adoration belongs by right to the lamb who was slain you know it is the manifestation of god in the person of jesus christ that makes right our worship and and draws us into that sanctifying relationship with god the governing relationship with god that the church is in charge of and you know everybody knows how much i love saint john paul the second one of my brother priest said rich we've got to figure out what the next thing to call saint john paul ii in the future because you're you're always at an institution related to him in some way and from john paul the great catholic university where i studied to now john paul ii uh catholic church and and so many other different things but for me you know by far like i love saint john paul ii like every single day just absolutely love his ministry his life his testimony it but it's like a closeness of friendship and a closeness of like mentoring like he mentors me so that i can have an enhanced relationship with jesus christ in his church and he shows me the way that he lived in the church and and and really uh developed his ministry by the power of the holy spirit in in providing that that love inside of the church so you know do i worship saint john paul ii absolutely not but saint john paul ii helps me worship jesus in many different respects like how a protestant might view billy graham billy graham was a great preacher who did a lot of cool things and there's a lot of people who have a picture of billy graham in their office because he was so influential in their lives no one's no catholics don't accuse you of worshiping billy graham but it's the same relationship it's like brett favre or you know like tony romo you know you got pictures up because you love the guy he because he participated in a team that you loved and you know and now he's the best you know sports caster out there he's like i think he's number one yeah but going back to your thoughts about uh john paul ii not only was he a a terrific pope and and did a lot for the church but but he was our pope right he was he was our pope and we were coming into our faith and and taking it as our own and and as we were searching more you know we started reading books and all these things and diving into his life and all these other things and then you have world youth days which made a huge impact on our church and our faith so you know like and then you have other popes down the line as you get older you're just like okay not the same as my pope that i grew up with it's like papa buono pope john the 23rd like some of our older brothers like sal back in the day you know father that was his poem you know and and it's true but it's love right it's not worshipping and as we go through this list when it comes to infallibility impeccability now does do catholics worship the pope answer no but i would also say in the verse of that that catholics sometimes worship the papacy because they're like the pope should be doing better if the pope wasn't you know it's from a negative from a negative standpoint yeah they look at the pope and they're like he's not doing it right well they have those same problems you're right right basis in reverse yeah they're expecting the pope to be impeccable and that's a perfect point and and to to to fill the world with god's love and mercy like sorry bro like that that is not do not have the capacity for that he does not have the company he is not jesus christ and you're not you know the boss of him yeah making those expectations of it you know an 80 year old man trying to do his best to be a pastor you know i mean look i've been to the universal church i've been 80 year old i've seen i've been about 80 year olds and i'm an 80 year old you're all about it takes a lot of naps look you're not doing enough when you're 80 years old when you're 80 years old if you can get in golf and do some whittling you've done a good job running an organization with almost two billion people and countless institutions look if you can do that at 80 god bless call me right wow you're not going to be crushing it let's put it that way but you're right so again saying that catholics worship the pope is just an easy quick flippant comment to dismiss the faith so that you keep them in your in your fold now this the the fourth one is kind of like that it's another dismissive statement that a lot of uh protestants and you know evangelicals and non-denominationals believe is that the pope is the antichrist he is the man rome is the beast of revelations right that's just charge and that goes all the way back to martin luther who would write in his thing the pope is thou art the antichrist and all that um pope's not the antichrist sorry just he's not um one of the charges is that and this is the main kind of explanation for why they say well we have proof because you know these groups kind of always are looking for this gnostic knowledge of the bible like well i've read the bible and i've figured out the date of you know armageddon and all this stuff but one of them is that they say well the pope's title the careers philly day when you use the greek numbering adds up to 666. and that he has vicarius philly day written on the crown and that's the same thing in revelations that the antichrist has a crown with great blasphemes on it right well there's a bunch of problems in that okay number one there is not one document or one time in the history of the church where you can find the pope using the title the vicar of the son of god or in latin vicarius felide it does not exist that was a complete fabrication to discredit and to slander the pope by saying he's the antichrist you can look at every papal tr we have all of them there's not one that has the pope's titles written on them it's not there this is like complete fabrications this is like just um made up out of whole cloth to discredit the church in one fell swoop that well you can't follow the church their antichrist now what you should do is follow our little fellowship here give your money to us not to the pope who sits in rome on the dragon with seven hills and a crowd of blast beams you wouldn't want to give your money to him i will gladly take it and i will not buy a crown with it ah um but but that is a very common trope and it's like well the next pope is definitely gonna be antichrist and you see youtube conspiracy videos is the pope the antichrist and it's been like that in every generation 500 years yeah and it's the same thing you know the myth of revelation you know it's like every generation has considers it considered its own as the worst and there have been communities in every generation that have been calling for the end times all the way back to paul's generation they all you always think yeah you're right they live in the end it's true and it's like there's there's a description that we can draw from paul so that we are made ready because our definitive end we do not know the time nor the hour so we need to be prepared and we need to have the urgency of that end time reality there will become a definitive end but when there's there's such pressures and evil and manifest darkness in the world one of the responses tragically of humanity and and small level level sects and communities is to say it's the end times i hear people express that even now it's like we can't have that type of urgency where now we're dismissing the entire world and the potential for its redemption and people's conversion but you never see people doing anything about it they're not selling other stuff and going live in a bunker besides like the most impossible it's just a spiritual distraction that's ultimately what it is it takes you away from prayer and unity with god and your brothers and sisters you know and a lot in a lot of ways saying that the pope is the antichrist is very similar to the attitudes people use in racism or sexism that they can dismiss a whole people with a common statement well you know black people are this and jews are that and italians are this and chinese people are that way and women are that way and gay people are that way and they that's just that and that's all i need to say about one statement and i can dismiss everything that they are and what they are it is and then you know and then make a difference and it justifies their hate their irrational hatred of something that does not deserve it right and and we look at difference as a threat yeah as opposed to difference as a complex gift like the other is always a gift in catholic teaching the other is always a gift complementarity is used a lot yeah you you look at the catholic church teaching as it relates to slavery look at look at look at catholic bishops that were standing up in spain expressing how we are to treat the natives when we came here in the 16th century yeah you know whether that was done on on local levels or it was in friends design or people on on you know like that were on a ship that were soldiers treated the natives that way or not the teaching was clear the teaching was very clear and it's documented absolutely you know and and it's important to realize we have the teachings that are very clear but do you follow them perfectly do i follow them perfectly no but the ideal law of freedom that we heard earlier in the catechism that is very clear in the scriptures is there for us so that we by way of god's mercy and his love look at how jesus looks at the difference of us we're we're sinners he's not yeah but he looks at us with tenderness and mercy and back to pope francis you know a few years back he was calling for a revolution of tenderness man does our culture need that wasn't that arby's arby's let's have a revolution of tenderness in our roast beef we've got the meat i got that wrong last night we were watching tv when the commercial came out all right so okay the pope cannot just say something is true and it's true the pope can sin he's not perfect the pope's not the antichrist and catholics don't worship the pope those are the four right of the pope's not jesus yeah the popes know jesus because we only worship jesus so that is including that so the last one that i wanted to talk about is the conception that and this is probably more common among catholics because protestants don't really care is that the concept that the pope is selected by the holy spirit directly and that's not true the holy spirit does not pick the pope the holy spirit is not the one blowing smoke up the chimney of the vatican right i mean it wasn't like one of the apostles they rolled dice or something they cast lives yeah and that's you know what that's that's great that's good that's a good point that's matthias right it was like the first time they elected uh the apostle which we later now call bishop the office of the bishop that's mathias mathias yeah so like the first one they're like rolling lobster i don't even know what this is that rolling dice i think they're one of those games out there in the casino drawing lots which is usually like you pick something and you know the length or whatever but that's a great example of how catholics don't believe that the pope is picked by the holy spirit or at least they shouldn't they believe that the holy spirit guides the process and that the holy spirit protects the process from electing somebody who would completely destroy the church a real antichrist but the holy spirit doesn't even protect against electing a clunker of a pope yeah she just protects against someone ruining the whole thing yeah now someone asked um benedict the 16th when he was still cardinal ratzinger about this perfect thing and you guys were talking about john paul was your pope benedict's my pope right he's mine too um and they asked him directly in a bavarian interview well you know who's the holy spirit going to pick as the pope and he's like well i would not say so in the sense that the holy spirit picks the pope i would say that the spirit does not exactly take control of the fair but rather like a good educator as it were leaves us much space much freedom without entirely abandoning us thus the spirit's rule should be understood in a much more elastic sense not that he dictates the candidate for whom one must vote probably the only assurance the holy spirit offers is that the thing cannot be totally ruined there are too many contrary instances of the popes that how that the holy spirit would obviously not have picked so that's why i love pope benedict he's so clear in his teaching he's talking about freedom right like we all like god gives us freedom to cooperate with the holy spirit the holy spirit does not dictate the holy spirit provides counsel wisdom the gifts of the holy spirit it's the gifts of the holy spirit and then we cooperate with him or don't or don't and that that therein lies the gift that god gives us that you know we are we are allowed to to do that because he loves us he wants us to choose a level right you know i mean there's there's some instances where there's been um anti-popes well did those bishops believe that the pope that the holy spirit was you know selecting their pope uh you know this is a the church is an institution of men for men instituted by christ right god doesn't need the church god doesn't need worship god needs nothing the church and scripture and the teachings and the mercy are for us because we need them that's like the sabbath right man is not made for the sabbath right sabbath was made for man and that's the same thing with everything and the holy spirit protects us from picking you know father rich's pope right but he doesn't thank god but the holy spirit's not writing you know his vote on a card and then burning it into the chimney and white smoke comes out it's like oh the holy spirit picked or the holy spirit just possesses people and they're like oh jorge berroglio right it doesn't work like that it's the same way the holy spirit influences anything through prayer through consultation and through guidance the holy spirit gives you the wisdom and the protection of what the holy spirit offers and with such an old institution and and with such an organization that is worldwide you think about national uh you know nations that have come and gone in the process of the catholic church still being here or ways of governance that have come and gone and and laws that have come and gone well you know the church still has her canon law the truth it's the oldest legal system and and active in the world you know the church as an institution as a sovereign nation has endured many ups and downs in this but it is still around and it's important to realize it's still around because the one who founded it is divine jesus christ has established a church that the gates of the netherworld that will never destroy or make defective and that's so reassuring to me and you know when you when you consider these five i think one that's kind of overarching and could be like potentially a bonus one is that the pope is the head of the church he's in charge no never in the in the history of the church has that ever been proclaimed because scripturally speaking it is jesus christ who is head of the church that's right when and and this is a good way to kind of wrap up the show about the preeminence of christ because that is precisely what the catholic church professes hopefully my brothers and sisters hopefully these five helps to kind of defuse some of the things that are misconceptions widely uh misconceptions and and used as propaganda against the catholic church for many years but let's go back to the scripture as a foundation the preeminence of christ first colossians 15 he is the image of the invisible god the firstborn of all creation for in him were created all things in heaven and on earth the visible and the invisible whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers all things were created through him and for him he is before all things and in him all things hold together he is the head of the body the church yeah amen he is the head that's the boss you want to talk to the boss that's the boss the pope is vicar the pope is the one who helps him out right he is not the head of the church christ is the head of the church now before we go i've got two things that i want to do number one i'd like you to tell them everyone about our sponsor and then after that i have an inquisition for you oh lord have mercy our sponsor hallow is the number one catholic app in the app store to date and let me tell you it is a magnificent app over 400 million prayers have been said through this app there are contemplative prayers lectio divina bible in the year with father mike schmitz there's so many resources on this app and it continues to grow people's lives have been changed by building a habit of prayer through this wonderful technique and this wonderful application so make sure you check out hallow today and as you do realize that there are so many functions of this app developing your own personal prayer developing prayer even in groups journaling and maintaining the consistency of prayer that sometimes we could slip out of in the busyness of life so check out hallow i am sure that it will enrich your spiritual journey with christ thank you for that padre go check out hollow great app we use it daily ourselves can't recommend it enough but now is the time for the inquisition i haven't had an inquisition question in a long time well so just like tradies we want to bring back some tradition here right there's some things that you know in our middle years we started getting a little lacks and we had you know we went a little liberal on having a good structure but we are bringing it back all right because you can never have too much inquisition so here's the question now we know that papal infallibility is not just the pope you know willy-nilly proclaiming anything he wants right it has to be a matter of faith and morals and all those characteristics we did earlier but if the pope had the ability to in infallibility say anything he wants and richard pagano was the pope right what would be that one thing that if you had that chance to change something in the church with no with impunity what would it be um in the church you know the the first thing that comes to mind is recently pope francis was given a atlanta hawks jersey and he blessed it that's not gonna when the atlanta hawks anything like it it's just not gonna work but i wouldn't mind blessing an orlando magic jersey and making sure that the orlando magic uh win you know a championship or the knicks that would be even greater in the miracle that the knicks would win that's the first thing that came to mind but inside the church hmm yeah if pope pope dicky pagano as he's known in the italian media do you not ever call me that on social media and never called me that again on any other show well that was lestappa that's the way they do it okay it's italians so what would what would pope joseph or whatever you would pick what would you what joseph valentine pope jv yeah you'd definitely be a jv pope oh my gosh um what would i oh my gosh and anything at all anything at all it doesn't even have to be in the prestige worldwide that's tough man i've never my brain's never gone in that in that direction um okay i would i would establish um territory online for bishops to exercise their ministry online that's great i like it establish digital dice digital diocese i would i would with specific efforts and different pastoral initiatives so for addictions for um you know marital care for you know sacramental uh instruction for rcia for you know to kind of break it open in in that respect but i've thought a lot about that i think it would be very good for the universal church to have that so i would probably lean in that direction that's a good answer score maybe the holy spirit's like take noted next time i pick a pope you know that was a pretty good answer you need to write a letter to the pope and let him know yeah i actually bishop esteva has expressed that i should write the uh the guy in the usccb who's in charge of in charge of i'm just not that type of person well you know father callaway wrote the pope about the year of saint joseph and he yeah oh really is that yeah that's yeah that's powerful man i just don't feel like i have that type of uh you do you don't you you set yourself short you don't have faith and you're not practicing it write this is like providence maybe it's the prayers of bishop esteban that's uh inspiring you guys i'm not good enough but god is amen well i think you passed the the inquisition and you kept your head good answer good job all right it's back well my brothers and sisters we thank you for joining us for this episode of the catholic talk show and we'll see you next week you