Create Digi-sign Gender with airSlate SignNow

Digital sign promotion letter to employee

if people don't like what's on your screens then they're just not going to look at them it's that simple so if you've got boring or ugly content people just tune out which means you're spending a bunch of time and money on nothing you're just wasting it so uh we're here today with jill perarti creative services manager for physics hi jill hi derek and we're going to talk about some best practices and some design tips for designing for digital signage messages thanks thank you thank you for coming thanks for having me [Music] this is digital signage done right whether you're new to digital signage or a season pro this podcast gives you practical advice about systems communications and content to better engage your audience i'm director wit communications specialist for visits welcome to digital signage done right digital signage design isn't exactly graphic design but there are certainly a lot of elements um that are similar though it's a rectangle the way things are laid out on there the way the eye just is i've got six things i thought i'd throw them out to you and see what you think about each one all right all right so first the first graphic design tip contrast and legibility all right well contrast is key for legibility primary factor you have to have contrast if there's no contrast between the background image and your foreground text or colors then it's never gonna work no one's going to be able to see it well enough read it well enough to understand your message and when it comes to contrast too it's not just the background and the foreground think about where the displays are located and what the natural environment is around that display is it in a bright area is it in a dark area that has to be accounted for in the contrast of your design is that display up way too brightly is that annoying or is that display up way too high and mounted flush on the wall and so you're looking at it from an angle i'd love to read that message am i on my neck hurt the three by five rule what is that all right so i learned the three by five rule when i was um in college taking my very first powerpoint class um that was a new thing when i was in college um the three by five rule it's three lines of text with five words each or you can have five lines of text but keep them to about three words each it's because it's it's too cluttered with text otherwise so 15 words max yeah pretty much keep your your type and your font large for readability present only the most important information you know make sure you've got maybe a headline and then your important points below it but that you know that holds true from your first powerpoint class whether you're old and you took it in college or you're learning it now in kindergarten i have more than 15 words should i split my message into two connected messages who tell a story yeah yeah well you've got a couple of options i love telling a good story on digital signage split your message up make sure they look a little different or they're connected but a little different to capture attention or have a cool transition between the two or add a nice little um call to action on it add a link to go check out the rest on a website send yourself a text text text more to one two three four five and see what text message you get back maybe then it links to your website a couple different things you can do if you've got more than that to say that's and that's a very interesting don't squeeze it all on one message no one's going to read it right textiles we've talked a little bit before about how evil comic sans is yeah uh tell me about that yeah so comic sans uh papyrus just don't use them but really text is really important um keep it simple keep it easy to read make sure that you're using bold for something that needs to be eye-catching if you're using a lightweight font which a lot of people do now it's modern design to use a lightweight font but is that enough contrast going back to your first one and think through sans serif fonts versus serif fonts so sans serif basically means not that decorative touch at the end of a letter so the end of your letter might have a little um decorative touch it might have that little swoosh or something at the end of an s let's say that's a serif font probably the most commonly used serif font would be a times new roman you put that on a digital sign it could become very hard to read right because it's actually they were they're printers fonts that were designed for printed words that helps the eye follow yeah but the eye doesn't track words on a on a digital sign the same way it does not it does not and so use a sans-serif font um really popular ones of course would be an ariel avenir gotham futura they're really i see those a lot in client brands now because so many clients are writing or digital whether that be a website or ads digital ads or of course ads on digital signage as opposed to print fonts so make sure you know the difference because it can really help improve readability and get your point across right and i think also size matters who says it doesn't who says it doesn't you want to make sure that they're you're using a font size big enough to be able to be read from a distance definitely yeah uh color and perception how does this factor in color is important for contrast color is important for your background designs i think in another podcast we talked a good bit about color color is important for emotional reaction emotional triggers different people think different things about color but also color can be sensitive contrasting colors light on dark dark on light but again think about where your displays are located and the lighting around them understand what your audience's eye is drawn to and it controls the impact of information again going back to that human behavior surrounding color um something like purple i believe is considered regal um so you know if you've got you know certain messages to convey think about the color but again make sure that it's conveying the right message and it's easy on the eye and it's easy to read i think blue is supposed to be considered really the least sensitive on eyes yeah i think that's right and then red because it's such such a low frequency yeah it messes with the eye interesting uh we said where the eye is drawn i mean what kind of focus focus techniques are there put your most important information first you have a short amount of time to convey this message because it is digital signage and your digital signage better be changing if you're using it appropriately you've got several messages to convey in a short amount of time to your moving target so make sure that the critical information is the largest either with an image or with a font or an icon you know make sure you've got your headlines and your bright colors to draw the focus adding a prior a priority or a visual hierarchy can tell your viewers quickly what's the most important and what they need to see enroll today is really important why am i enrolling today well if i don't losing yeah and it could be if i don't i'm losing my insurance well maybe you want to put don't lose your health coverage open enrollment ends today you know so think through what is the most important part of your message and what's the best way to convey that with images or text or color in order to get the eye to focus on the most important part what about previewing people are supposed to do when they make designs visually obviously i know if i do a poster or something like that i take a look at it and i go yeah that looks that's pretty good pretty good we print one out it looks pretty good let's go and and we do it how do we do this for digital signage first i say walk away for a minute come up with your design put it on your screen uh walk away from your desk turn off your monitor pick up the phone go talk to a co-worker or something and then walk back and see where your eye goes eat a salad yeah eat a salad um and walk back and see where your eye goes first test your readability test it on your own monitor if you can't read it on your own monitor or you think it could be challenging on your own monitor there's a really good chance it's going to be on your digital science um and stand back from it i do this a lot i you know i look at it my computer monitors close to my eyes i get up out of my chair and i take five feet back and i look at it and i go oh that is a totally different perspective or i have a monitor mounted to my wall in my office that's even further back you know and i stand up and take a step back then preview it and change it change it and even if you you know maybe you get the luxury of designing for displays that are in your own building or in your you know nearby you on campus or wherever it might be take a minute to go walk by it and uh if you don't like it if you don't think it reads well change it or whatever you're promoting isn't getting traction change it definitely preview it yeah and and take a good look at it and also think of it not as yourself as the designer think of it of how your audience is going to view it yeah i think that's that that's cute she said that before and i think that's a key thing very often designers will get but yes but the reason i made the word green in green color is because it reinforces and there's an intellectual connection and you're like yeah but now i can't see the word exactly and people just ignore it because they don't so it was a cute idea and yet it turned out it didn't work you know outline it in white or something to make that word stand out yeah absolutely well as a designer you have the power but the message is not about you well and once i i would say that once once it goes up on those digital signs the audience are the ones with the power they're going to deal with it whatever the heck they want let's talk a little bit about designing for sort of brand standards and how to reinforce brain standards because this is something i think a lot of organizations want to do and they want it they want to have a consistent look across how how do we how do we do this using design tips so i actually have a marketing background i come from marketing departments my entire professional careers pretty much have some sort of a marketing background so i love a good brand i'm also a virgo so i'm a little uptight and love a good um organization of anything everything needs to be organized and there's nothing i love more than a theme that i can see carried through all different parts of my day my event my signage my marketing materials right satisfying yes it is so i love a brand and digital signage is typically an extension of your brand convey your brand push it through um like a logo like a logo for example before we get too deep into that let me tell you the other side of it sometimes your brand is quite frankly going to stick out like a sore thumb where you're using your display what do you mean so uh hospital their brand was turquoise and purple they had a cancer center with a digital sign in it for uh donor recognition it was in a beautiful lobby that was green and gold marble and like a cherry wood grain and that turquoise and purple was not going to look good on that display a little pukey yeah just a lot coming together so in that case designed for the aesthetics the brand came through in their logo and the font type which i think we'll probably talk more about but the whole thing wasn't turquoise and purple it was gold and green and cherry woods and that's the time that i say scrap the brand or use what you can out of the brand or adjust it or maybe mute it or maybe do a different shade of those colors but yeah for sure i mean i think logo is is going to be the number one thing everybody knows the olympic rings everybody knows the physics eye right everybody knows that one uh and so on everybody on earth how prevalent should it be where should it be how should you use it should it be in the corner what should we do with it i think think about your deployment where are your signs who is your audience where are these located if you are a corporate office and your signage is for your own employees maybe you don't need a logo your employees already know where they work that's true but you might want to do that to promote your brand and make sure you have that if you're a university yeah you want your university logo rah-rah promote the brand promote the university but furthermore each department typically gets a variation of the university logo southern illinois university college of english you might want that because when students or visitors are in that building all right this is the english department i know where i am really consider your logo and then also you don't need it on everything right if you've got a screen and you've got your overall screen design maybe you've got your logo in the top left you don't need it on every message that you then have coming after that you know you don't need it on your open enrollment message your event message your this and your that message because it's already on the top left of your display all the time so just think through how often and when you use it and and i would also say make sure you have a nice high-res version because one of my pet peeves is that exploded low-res image that somebody blew up because they don't understand you can't you can't just take a small image and magically make it bigger and make it look good yeah and especially with your logo for god's sake to kind of build on that too use a high resolution logo try to use one you know if you only have a logo that has a white box behind it because that's the only one that you can come up with um you know it's a black logo with a white box let's say our colored logo with a white box behind it that white box is going to show up in your design so you better make your whole background white if you want it to look like it blends um so try it you know try to find a logo that's got a transparent background as well right and that could then work it into the design yeah yeah um colors obviously are the next thing you've already mentioned something about colors what uh pms colors don't really work on digital science yeah because it's not print yeah um so we're gonna deal with rgb or hex colors and so you know find and in fact if you only know pms colors which is not uncommon i help a lot of our clients with their digital signage content i ask for their brand colors they've only got pms because they've never tiptoed into digital design and they had some other firm do their websites almost everybody has at least done it through that through a website but they had a firm do it well google pms to hex colors you're gonna say surely there's a there's a translator on it absolutely there's a ton of them um and so do that come up with that color use your brand palette as long as it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb like we had talked about with that hospital example um don't just use your primary color if your brand has well some brands can have a ton of colors in it but some might just have two a primary and a secondary um and maybe you know it's a it's it's blue it's green and it's white let's say you know use all of those colors um don't just make your primary color your only color used in your design like blue blue blue yeah and then it's there's not enough contrast it's not changing enough between one message to the next it's overwhelming mix it up a little bit it'll it'll capture your audience's attention if you mix it up but brand colors can be really really important mm-hmm carry your products brand fonts because i know a lot of a lot of companies i mean some companies actually have bespoke fonts made for them this is our font absolutely absolutely they do we worked with a client just a couple weeks ago that had that they sent it to us because we were designing content for them um i signed a little document and promised we wouldn't use this anywhere else because it was their font made for them a lot of clients have a brand font they might have two they might have a typeface for their written printed materials they might have a digital font for their digital signage materials you know as we had talked about serif fonts sans serif fonts um so you might have a couple and you might say listen we really don't have a font use use something that's common that comes with most software something that doesn't suck yeah yeah but yeah so i you know like i said i talk to clients all the time and you know i understand that digital signage can be anywhere anywhere from a large corporation to joe's plumbing shop and they just wanted something behind the counter and joe's plumbing shop may not have a brand but what joe does have and he doesn't even realize it is a logo on his checks a logo on a piece of paper might have a little website send that to whomever is designing the content if you're not designing it yourself and you don't even realize it but you actually have a brand by having that we had preschool one time even as a client well we don't really have a brand but we use a lot of blue cool send me your website so i can see what that lot of blue what that color of lot of blue is turned out that was actually the name of the color yeah it wasn't but but um but yeah so i can at least see that because you don't realize it but you do have a brand that's even forming um by already having someone else create a website for you if you have any kind of web presence yeah you've got a brand yeah and then to use that preschool as an example the parents started on your website to look you up what someone recommended you as their school they've seen it there they've seen it when they walked in and saw signs in your posters in your building now they're going to see it when you've replaced those posters with your digital signage carry it through make sure that they they put all the parts and pieces together with your brand what about backgrounds i know some like you you told a story once about this really really sharp busy full color background things like this sometimes i think maybe some companies want to use like their logo as the background or how do we how do we determine what's an effective background and what isn't well think about what's going to draw attention so humans are visual right so i think it's 90 of information sent to the brain is actually visual it's it's a background it's an image it's some sort of a design maybe before the text so the text of course that's your message but your background is important don't make it so busy consider your audience what's going to appeal to them we had talked i think another time in another podcast about emotional triggers you know whether that be you've had you i think you mentioned seattle as always it was always raining and i'm in atlanta and the entire month of february it rained so that sunny day background that someone designed or an image that we had sure could have boosted my mood and captured my attention sure the question is though how busy is that sunny day background and is the text am i seeing the text that's on top of it um so just think about the content think about your audience and think about the clutter don't clutter your background design with just too much so that um it's not so busy that your messaging isn't getting across right make sure it's clean you know and you might want to follow a color scheme or certain standards for your background designs we've written a little bit about um using colors to sort of color code messages by content type you know whatever green is for recycling of this what is that that can be great but you don't uh there's pros and cons to this we think about the pros right we've got um people know colors to mean things you talked about green means recycling because it's it's green but also the recycling icon is green you know when we talk about we do interactive way finding projects which are basically helping people move through buildings or campuses by looking at maps there's we put icons on those maps for people to quickly and easily spot a restroom well that icon that we use is the same printed restroom sign that is outside every restroom door it's blue there's different variations of men women gender neutral whatever we use those same icons we're not going to suddenly make that purple or green because the brand color palette calls for it we're going to do that because it's a familiar color you might want to color code your messages for familiarity if you want to make all hr notices tan all i t notices blue whatever it is carry that through maybe the building maybe the ic department is in an area with blue carpet or blue walls and hr is in a different one i mean that happens i've been in a lot of corporate offices for example where they do that carry that through in the messaging i don't love doing that if you're never going to promote a certain area or certain department you know if you're using this for kind of rah-rah way to go certain department messages and you see the same colors over and over and over a lot of digital signage you want to impact human behavior so yeah may give that department of boost oh i'm always seeing my color on the screen and then some other department may go no one cares about me because we never see our color messages on the screen here we are in the piece section exactly so just just think it over but it's not a bad not a bad idea at all to come up with some color coding because it also helps you as a designer you know what this message is about so you know you've got to look for it based on whichever department has submitted it or requested it organizations might want to have more than one content creator or allow like i know some universities do this for example allow students to create content as well it takes the burden off of them the students are happy to do it and they have a bit more control uh and the way to make sure that that meshes with the with the brand the organization's trying to put forth is like through themes and templates and things like this talk about those how how prevalent are they are they how useful are they so i think we got to break down themes and templates into two totally different totally different things first um and then also keep in mind that not everybody is a designer that's responsible as you mentioned student workers or whatever you may want your students to put content up because it engages them and encourages them to actually then continue to look at the displays and be involved and you might be you might have a full graphic design team that's responsible for this um but maybe they don't have the time to always come up with something fresh because they're dealing with a website redesign or whatever else is going on you just don't have the time to constantly whip something up so come up with a theme first and foremost like i said i want to break them out into two things a theme is kind of some coordinating artwork elements to kind of help set the tone for your displays if you think about your brand i've got two or three different backgrounds using our two or three different colors in our color palette but the font's always the same the logo is always going to go here or here and i've come up with this design and every so often i'm going to change it up and use a different color background and might move the logo to here and there but it's always this great looking theme doesn't have to be brand here's our cute mascot whatever absolutely make it seasonal huh you have four themes right there um go with holidays you know make it decorative and kind of fit into the aesthetics but come up with that overall design that really i think a theme just kind of the artistic graphical elements that set the tone of the overall design and then run with it you don't have to constantly come up with a look that starts from scratch but if you've gone seasonal you know that you know the next season's coming in three weeks four weeks let's start on that next theme and let's get it moving we all know as soon as we start seeing halloween stuff we all started thinking thanksgiving yeah absolutely um and so then touch on templates which as i mentioned i think are completely different a template in my opinion is an easy way to allow that student worker for example to create content that supports your theme does that make sense yeah yeah all right so theme is this is the look template is fit within this fits within that look i got you yeah and so there's kind of some different ways to make templates right they could be a term we use here fill in the blank templates so that allows sally's student worker to quickly get something up on the screen because her boss told her to and she knows she needs to get it up there but sally is going to use terrible font and sally wants to put the mascot on there but it's not really a mascot related message well the designers can go ahead and set templates that say hey sally you can fill in the blanks and by doing so you literally type in your message or upload the photo that you're told you can upload and when she does that the designers have already done the work in the background to make sure that that template shows up in the brand font the font size the font color the weight the type the um you know she's using things that support that overall theme or support the brand she's not using her crazy calligraphy font right and it i assume it also decides like the template also decides where the elements go on so she's just she's just writing the actual content yeah and literally everything else is taken care of yeah absolutely you know there's there's a lot of templates that can that can be created i mean a lot of companies out there design companies for digital signage design web design whatever it might be they have templates but most of the time unless it's a scenario like i just described they're really just a good starting point you know if you think about it you want to put together a website that you have in your mind where you want copy to appear so you start with a template and then you realize oh the copy only goes in the left or it's only right justified or the same thing with your digital signage yeah i've i've got this directory template but i'm not showing four columns of data in my directory how do i get rid of that fourth column and just make it three and then make my directory columns wider because i've got more space so templates are sometimes good jumping off points to help me get started and then to allow me to customize it from there you know i don't want your your gray um nebulous background i want you know our brand photo background whatever it is you know good jumping off points but then there's also really really useful times for them like i mentioned sally student worker what about display specs because you're designing a general sort of a thing but it's going to look different on a small screen a big screen a video wall like it's always going to be look different talk a little bit about how how you have to think about the actual display because it's not a poster right i mean even with a poster you think about what kind of paper you have does is it texture does what weight is it the digital signage equivalent is is the display so yeah so talk talk about that a little bit yeah absolutely so you might be an amazing graphic designer but you've only done print and then you get into digital signage and you realize things are a little bit different there's display specs on the other side of things here at physics if one of my designers was asked to design something for print and we'd say they'd say what paperweight do you want we'd be completely puzzled for digital designers but you have to think about your your canvas in this instance is a display it's a it's a television it's a display and so you first have to think about or i think you have to think about a few things the display size that's really important how much content do you want to show your display is a canvas think about it as you're about to paint something you're about to print something you can only show so much as what's on that display now the beauty of digital signage you can time that so however many seconds later it goes to the next thing it doesn't do that in print but how big is my display how big is my canvas may determine how big my font can be how busy my message is going to be because my display is so small or is it too large think about orientation is it horizontal or what we refer to as landscape or is it vertical or what's considered portrait yeah sure those would be completely different absolutely different you design completely differently in those in those situations so the last thing is aspect ratio and resolution this can be a totally foreign concept to some people because particularly they might have been doing digital design but they've been doing it for responsive websites it's going to scale and size no matter if i'm looking at it in safari on my phone or chrome on my 20 inch computer monitor but when you've got a 55 inch display that's never changing you need to know that so an aspect ratio technically is the image area's width divided by the height so your display is width divided by height um that's what 16 and nine means yeah so you'd see four colon three four by three right um 16 by nine is probably the most common now yeah now and then also nine by 16 which is basically that portrait vertical display that's important because if you're designing something that maybe needs to be larger from left to right in order to look good uh make sure that it's going on the display that's mounted in that orientation that has that aspect ratio otherwise things get all messed up the issue they could stretch they could be letterboxed and show up with black bars on the left the right the top or the bottom and your contents just sitting oddly in the middle you know so there's um it can really make or break the quality of your design yeah your message makes you look amateur i think absolutely like these guys what are they doing yeah and dated good data because you know remember when everybody all of a sudden i got hd displays in their home and all the tv stations weren't required to catch up to it yet right and you're watching something there's black bars at the top and the bottom well now that was that was so 15 years ago now right so it looks dated and then resolution resolution is basically the number of columns and rows of pixels that you use to create an image a print designer that would be like dpi dots per inch right this is pixels so a typical 16x9 aspect ratio display likely has a resolution of 1920x1080 and that's the number of pixels that show up to make that color on your display and so those things are important because again if you design you've designed something for 1366 by 768. so you've designed for that and you're trying to put that on a 1920x1080 display or worse a 4k the ultra hd display it's going to look terrible again it's going to stretch you can let her box it whatever it's going to look awful so make sure you know that and then also if you're designing content for multiple displays find out the aspect ratio orientation the resolution of all of them because the person that's asking for the content that you're designing for for example they may not know that this content's going on some other display that some old display stuck somewhere back a house but it's still in use you know so just make sure that if you're designing for multiple displays that you design multiple times to account for those different sizes aspect ratios whatever orientations um or that they're all the same and you know that interesting what about videos people love them people talk about video walls all the time oh my god they're so impressive look at this gigantic interconnected group of screens i mean that's a whole different ball game for design or is it i mean it's you still the same rules same rules but likely a much higher resolution right um and so you're going to have to design for that much higher resolution because that content is not going to look good if it's not at that resolution it will be stretched and squeezed and everything else and now it's on a much larger display for everyone to notice how terrible it looks make sure if you have a video wall that you find out the resolution and it's not just all right we have four displays and each one is 1920x1080 well depending on how you're connecting those four displays one big square one row of four displays and one long row the resolution is going to change based on that oh sure yeah so do the math and figure it out the other thing about video walls this is becoming less common but there's what you call a bezel a bezel is basically a frame around your tv around your display um a lot of times people are now going with bezel-less displays which mean there's almost practically no frame around them so they just sort of seamlessly screen space and they seamlessly connect but maybe um they might be cost prohibitive in some instances and so you use a display that still has that frame where it interconnects well that frame might be a half an inch but when you put those two displays together now it's an inch more math yep more math more math who knew you had to do so much math to design for digital signage by the way recently someone laughed and said that they would love to go back and remind their all their teachers that say they'd never walk around with a calculator in their hands but they now are walking around always with a calculator in their hands with their phone come in handy here mr spence was right yes can come in handy here um but yeah so that bezel but basically what that means if you've got an inch of frame uh that's an inch of your content not being shown so there's nothing worse than looking at a video wall and having this big plastic frame going right down someone's face shiny usually shiny right on somebody's face going through the middle of a word cutting out a letter altogether your logo yeah so just keep that in mind so that's like that's like a whole new whole different thing that's a whole other podcast yeah yeah let me make a note video wall design um let's talk about uh accessibility uh you know for many many many years we haven't really thought about people who are differently able people were colorblind people were deaf uh and now more and more because of lobbying groups and and uh collective power groups we're starting to pay attention to this and obviously in the united states we have the uh americans with disabilities act i think in other countries they have similar possibly more comprehensive uh guidelines and so on how hard is it is it like oh god now i have to do a whole new set of designs how hard is it to incorporate accessibility considerations into just regular digital signage design well i think when you and i were discussing this one day i think it all boiled down to don't be a jerk why wouldn't you want to you want this to be used by everybody right your money is no good here blind guy right exactly so um you know just keep some things in mind and just you want your content as a designer don't you want the masses to see what you've done so design for everybody you know think about text it should be um you should be able to read it easily from a distance one thing that we think about a lot when we do interactive designs if it's going into a hospital let's say well the demographic in that hospital that's going to use this varies greatly and it's people that might be afraid to touch a screen don't know that they can um you know and so just consider that too when you're designing um text size colors contrast i think it's eight percent of men are color blind born color blind really i think it's much less for one i think it's like either red yellow uh what is it purple yellow and red green are the most common blue yellow blue yellow red green yeah and so it's not they don't see the color at all but they or or that they see gray um it's a it's a hard time to distinguish between the colors oh okay and so it gets muddled in the mind as it goes from the eye yeah so contrast is key so we've been talking about brand and brand colors well you don't want to exclude people from reading your messaging because you're using your brand colors and there's not enough contrast in those so that's another reason not to do like green text on a red background because for someone who has red green color blindness it's all just one soup and there's yeah there's not enough separation oh there are no words yeah there's not enough separation not enough contrast be careful with two shades of the same color in a design for example these are whatever you can say green text and then but but but we made this word really dark green yeah and the colorblind person says did you absolutely yeah you know and so just and think about accessible elements um kind of going back to interactive as i just mentioned that the american disabilities act ada act um there are standards set for how high or low displays should be mounted how much they have to be flush or protruding from the wall um and you have to design for that accordingly especially interactive yeah if people were expected as people are expected to interact with that there's a whole series of guidelines yeah absolutely and and maybe you do want audio in some of your messaging so or the option or the option of it yeah and that might go into again goes into a whole other podcast but it might go into a kiosk design for example can someone plug in a headphone and listen and all of that but you know absolutely just at least at the very least consider text can be tough to see for young eyes versus old eyes versus contrast and color blindness and distance and dyslexics yeah oh gosh yeah absolutely which is which is just growing um so there's there's a website that we refer to a good bit actually 99 designs um they've got some great tips and some visual examples to take a look at 99 but yeah so you know the ada guidelines are everything from you know lifts to get into a public pool um to to digital design that is a lot of advice our call to action of course is listen to more of our podcasts and uh check the listing here on the website for links and other goodies uh associated with thanks for talking to us joe i know it was a long time thank you derek thank you all right thanks for listening everybody hey want more free stuff then head to the resources section of physics.com for free masterclass guides blogs videos and more to help you with your digital signs please share subscribe and leave a review of this episode and connect with us on social media