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[Music] [Music] welcome to empowerment radio well I'm actually a little speechless because well many reasons but one of the reasons is my fabulous guest who wrote a book that yeah blew my mind and I'm sure will also blow yours if you just listen to our conversation which we're gonna have in a moment but before we go there another thing that I find really so exciting already about this year which is very young is that so much it's changing so much is shifting and two things that I want to tell you about that I'm really thrilled about are things that are directly affecting empowerment radio and also my work empowerment radio will change its spot from Wednesday to Thursday and it's starting in March and we will shift from the 11:00 Pacific Standard Time to a 9:00 a.m. Pacific Standard Time or noon Eastern Standard Time so every first and third Thursday marketing calendar starting in March I will be an empowerment radio and a lot of people told me they are excited about it because they have better time either it's the lunch break or they just send people off or they just have more time on their way to work and their commune whatever it is I will hopefully be able to share even with more people worldwide great information amongst though is also the information we're gonna listen to today from our great guest and the other thing is I introduced already before but it's worth mentioning I just started the 50 ways to self empowerment series on social media so this is Facebook Twitter and also Instagram join me on those outlets and just you know get every week some insights some little mind things but also concrete tools and exercises to do to make this year the year of self-empowerment and keep in mind self empowerment is not about being in control at all times of all the people and all the circumstances you're in but self empowerment is really about being able to stay committed to your personal growth to be able to be flexible and adjust whatever situations you're in without losing yourself within it so that you are becoming more and more aware of your unique contribution in this world and you're more and more able to share it and also more and more able to enjoy life to its fullest because you are the most fullest expression of yourself so join me join the conversation and also tune in starting in March we're still gonna have a show in February and Wednesday but starting March it's gonna be Thursday 1st 3rd 90 M Pacific time have you ever been in a situation that let's say you're thinking about someone and five seconds later this person calls you up or you have watched your dog all set and going to the door and sitting there maybe wearing the tail a minute before your spouse or your kids come home as if the dog knew that they're about to arrive there was no indication they was just in knowingness or have you ever wanted something so much that for some reasons the stars seemed to align the universe seemed to conspire and it just happens it was magic now if these are phenomenons that you are curious about or have maybe experienced itself and you wonder how whether it just happenstance did I just have the lucky socks on or is there something else happening stay tuned because we are talking with someone who wrote a fabulous book about a subject about subjects like telekinesis like telepathy like manifesting through consciousness like past lives do they exist and what happens after death and what is the role of consciousness the notion of his work is really turning our old materialistic thinking upside down and so the title of the book is very poignant which is an end to upside-down thinking and I'm talking about mark Gober and I just let him introduce himself so mark thank you so much for being on the show it's so nice to have you thank you so much for having me it's a pleasure well mark you are really as we talked before the show started someone who stumbled across this whole material of these phenomenons and consciousness almost like by happenstance yourself so tell us your story what how did you get interested in this this matter well my background in my day job has nothing to do with consciousness I work in the business financial field so I'm a partner at a firm in Silicon Valley called Sherpa technology group and we advise businesses on their intellectual property and business strategy particularly around their patents so I work with a lot with technologies and how it applies to business and prior to that I worked in New York at a large investment bank called UBS during the financial crisis and I was doing Investment Banking there so on the surface it doesn't seem like there's much of a connection with consciousness and when I think back to my own personal interests I have always asked big questions about existence and whether life has any meaning at all and what are we doing here what's the nature of the universe and even back in my undergraduate days I studied at Princeton University I thought majoring in astrophysics because I wanted to understand the big questions in the universe but I was on the tennis team there and later captured the team so my commitments were too much in that area and I ended up just studying psychology so again I was kind of focused on understanding the mind but not from the standpoint of existence because I think there is an assumption that's so deeply embedded in much of our thinking both scientific thinking and just everyday thinking which is that the reason that we are all conscious you and I and anyone else listening to this discussion we are conscious we have an awareness because of chemical activity that's occurring in our brain and something complex in our skull is happening and that is what's spouting out the the awareness and the consciousness that we all have I didn't realize that there was any question about that topic until late 2016 when I stumbled across podcasts again not intentionally looking for topics around consciousness I was listening to health and business podcasts and heard some one woman named Laura powers who has her own podcast called healing powers and she was talking about using energies for healing and communicating with entities that are not physical and communicating with the deceased and psychic abilities and it just led me down a path really of just curiosity to see if there was any merit to these ideas the more I look the more I realized that there was actually a ton of credible evidence from places like Princeton University where there was a lab for almost 30 years from the US government from the University of Virginia and Beyond and ultimately massively shifted my own paradigm after about a year of just intensive research when I wasn't in my in the office for my day job and then I decided to write a book about it now let's be clear part of what you are really kind of dispelling is the old way of thinking that we are matter our brain creates consciousness and there's probably pretty much nothing beyond and and your research and what you found in your studies about this topic just puts a beautiful case together for the fact that it's the other way around there's consciousness and consciousness creates reality consciousness creates outcomes consciousness creates matter and that we are somehow just having it again in the reverse so my question is why is this not something that I mean I read these quotes from Nobel Prize winners and physicists and famous people that were absolutely buying into this notion yes consciousness exists and we are all a part of it which is part of you know that what you're describing why is it not more mainstream what is the challenge why are we holding on to this Newtonian idea of cause and effect and we are not really turning it upside down well I think like with any paradigm it takes time for things to shift and this is one example we've seen many throughout history one that I love to talk about is germ theory where it used to be heretical to say that microscopic organisms like bacteria could make you sick or even kill you I mean when before we had the microscope that seemed like a ludicrous idea so we have many examples throughout scientific history where there's an old entrenched way of thinking that is based on the common sense thinking of the time and then some new way of thinking comes along so I think that's where we are right now but the difference is that we do have clear evidence we do have the microscopes that show in these you know ways of these experiments that you're describing that these phenomenons exist I mean they are in your book wonderful experiments about for example being able to predict the future like with these random machines and we're going to talk more about this so why are these clear and very logical experiments dismissed is there a fear maybe yeah I do think there there is a fear and I think that there they reluctance to look at much of the evidence that you just mentioned and the evidence that I provided in my book because it challenges the mainstream thinking so in many cases and I talk about what people will say I've asked the debunkers to explain to me why the evidence is no good and many of them said they haven't even looked at it so it's hard for the paradigms to shift especially in the education and academic communities where those are very implement influential communities in terms of societal thinking and it's it's it's hard to break in and it's even it's it's a taboo for some reason that I don't fully understand maybe because I'm just new to the field where if you are an academic and you discuss these ideas it is it's damaging to your career to mention them mention them before you get tenure and even if you do get tenure it can be damaging and like you said there's an example of a Nobel prize-winning physicist Brian Josephson who is said that he thinks telepathy is real and that quantum physics can help us explain it he was uninvited from a scientific conference because he has interests in these topics and the conference claimed to be a scientific one and didn't want people who even explored those things to attend now after the break we will talk more about for example telepathy and we'll talk more about experiments that were done in a very scientific way that showed that something like this truly exists and of course other phenomenons that you're describing in the book and and again what I love about your book is that it has not just the ideas presented but it presents the evidence that underscore this is real we may just not be completely awake to that reality so stay tuned we will be right back [Music] welcome back to Hartmann radio we are blowing our minds by thinking the end of upside down thinking with Mark Gobert who talks about just these phenomenons that we may have seen in the good old days and the twilight zone show but they actually are real and one of them is telekinesis and I would ask you mark tell us more about the experiments that were made and maybe the one that blew your mind the most what something that you found like wow I didn't know that this really was possible hmm there are so many but on the topic of telekinesis or sometimes people call it psychokinesis this is a phenomenon where the the mental attitude or attention or intention that a person puts on to something can have a physical effect so there's no physical touching and yet the mind seems to affect the physical process which doesn't make any sense under the conventional view that consciousness is just this byproduct of our brain and has no effect on the physical world but if we flip things around and say that consciousness is the primary underlying field of the universe beyond all space and time then it would actually make sense that if we shifted our own consciousness then perhaps we can ship the material reality around us because consciousness is underlying the material reality and that's what some of the studies suggest so on this topic of psychokinesis what did they do there in this study so in this study and it was it's been run in many places and one of them was Princeton University in the lab that I mentioned run by the former dean of engineering dr. Robert John so a very smart guy was running this lab and there are machines there they're computer generated machines called random number generators so these are machines that generate zeros and ones in a totally random fashion so when you look at the strings of zeros and ones that these machines typically produce it ends up approaching 50 percent ones 50 percent zeros because it's totally random in the experiments what people are asked to do is the experimenter says I want you to to with your mind to make the machine produce more ones and zeros so like mentally willing it to do it you're not touching the machine you're just using your mind and what they find in these experiments is that people are able to have a very very subtle but highly statistically significant effect where there are more ones than zeros and you have to use statistics and math to really see it but it's it's been shown over and over again in so many instances that it seems like the mind is having a subtle effect on a physical process without any physical contact now wasn't there also a study where they had these random machines what do they call it random generators right random number generator random number generators and they had them all over in the world just like taking away one zero one zero and then there were these big events that happened in the world where people were captured by maybe some kind of a disaster or something like this and then the number shifted that there was more because of that intense conscious energy of people there were more ones or zeros what was that about this is known as the global consciousness project and it is a is is run by people who used to be at Princeton so dr. Robert Roger Nelson is is running it right now and they're still looking at the data and they're looking at what happens to these machines during big events so the way that it's structured is that machines are set up all over the world and most people don't even know that they're there so whereas in this experiments I mentioned initially people know there's a machine and they're trying to mentally influence it in these cases the machines are just set up like you said generating zeros and ones in a random fashion and the experimenters look to see what happens to the machines around the world when there's a major event so like 9/11 or Princess Diana's death some event where they would think that many people are mentally focused on that thing or there's an emotional elevation in some way and what they find for many of these events is that the machines around the world behave non randomly meaning there are slightly more ones and zeros if we look at the statistics to compare the the behavior of the machines during those events versus during a normal time and that is something that has been repeatedly shown in those you know events of global interest that something is shifting which is just a phenomenon in itself now when it comes to energy you just mentioned before energy can also affect matter in your book there is also a section on energy healing and one of the experiments was about the pate reduce where these cells were radiated and a person was using energy healing techniques on 50% of the petri dishes and what were the outcomes there well when the energy healers put their their their mental energy or whatever they do on the petri dishes that the survival rates worse were higher we're stronger even though the cells were being radiated which is suggesting that somehow the the mental intention that is being put forth by the healers having an effect on a biological process so the way I structured this chapter and really the book in general is to say look we have experiments from a number of different credible people and the the experiment with the energy healer was is someone who passed away recently but a credible scientists at UC Irvine college and he was adviser to many prominent people like Barack Obama and he was running studies on energy healing so I think the power to me is in the cumulative effect all of these studies together where it gets to the point and we're just talking about psychokinesis this is one chapter where for me it's just a logical person I have a hard time shooting all of them down and if any one of these things is real then we can explain it very well by this idea that consciousness is the primary structure or reality that we're in and therefore if that's true then I think it becomes more probable that many of these things are real now what you say when you when you heard about these phenomenons like energy healing and also telekinesis that something inside of you also made you wonder so how can I use this do I have the ability as well to use my I mind and my energy to change something and would you say in general we all have more of that potential than we really give ourselves credit or are told that we have the way I think about the human in general now is that we all have these abilities and they're not really powers we call them powers because in modern society they're not supported as being real so they seem like supernatural but if we view the brain again not as the producer of consciousness but rather being more like an antenna receiver or I think a more precise metaphor is to call the brain a filtering mechanism where consciousness exists well beyond the body non-locally to the body and the brain actually limits what we perceive so that applies to anyone any any being with a brain any any living being is how has that filtering mechanism in their brain it's and it's a matter of unlocking it and learning how to work with it so I do think that we all have the abilities and sometimes they're very subtle like with the random number generator machines it's a very small effect that you need mathematics to detect and sometimes the effects are bigger so for me I think yeah there was a lot of curiosity as to how I might be able to use these things but then the next step came very quickly which is well what is the meaning of life and those are things that we can get into and how how do these powers fit in so does it really matter if I can affect a machine or affect a biological system with my mind what is the broader purpose of doing something like that very good question now if you have questions for mark call 1-800 nine three zero two eight one nine that's again one eight hundred nine three zero two eight one nine or you can also enter a question into the chat box of transformation talk radio well these are very important in mind-blowing considerations that you know you can actually just by I'm filtering your brain tap into that consciousness now what I loved also about one factor in the book was how it described consciousness with a stream and the whirlpool and this was a metaphor that made sense because I think some of the listeners who don't really know this matter think okay here's some people talking about something and they're obviously on crack or taking psychedelics or something like this because I have no idea what they're talking about so talk about this this metaphor with a stream and the and the whirlpools because I feel like it's something very tangible we can really see us being a part of this is a metaphor that I borrowed from dr. bernardo Kastrup who's a philosopher who also thinks that consciousness is the primary structure of reality and he says in his book which is called by the way why materialism is baloney materialism is the idea that that the brain and matter create consciousness so he is very much in this camp of consciousness first but he says imagine that all of reality is like a stream of water where water represents consciousness and each of us is like a whirlpool within that stream meaning we have delineations that separate us within the stream but we're all fundamentally made of water we're all interconnected in the same stream of consciousness so we have an individual experience because we're in a whirlpool so to speak but we're not actually separate and that consciousness kind of flows all over the place so it would be possible in theory for the water from one whirlpool to get into the water of another whirlpool if there was kind of an opening in either one and that would be like a telepathic or a psychic ability where consciousness from one enters the consciousness of another so this is just all to say that this model where consciousness is primary predicts that psychic abilities would be real it wouldn't say that those things are paranormal it would say yeah we would expect that so that's one important area and the other important area is if the whirlpool dissolves and stops being a whirlpool the water doesn't leave the stream so that's sort of like when the body dies the consciousness simply transitions into a new form now are these filters that we are talking about the filters that prevent the the connection to the consciousness or the awareness of the consciousness could we say that these are kind of the the spinning of the world pool meaning like the faster it spins the more it pushes the consciousness out and that there is you know the slower it is the more Oh is to let the consciousness in that's a good analogy the way I like to think about that compared to our brain in our mind is that if we're thinking you know overthinking and are kind of clouded by thoughts and emotions then we might be less receptive to who intuition or these types of psychic abilities and what we see in many cases for example remote viewing which is the ability that I talked about in the book chapter 4 where people can perceive something that's very far away even though they're not seeing it with their eyes they described going into a kind of a meditative trance when they do this many psychics people that communicate with the deceased or claim to have intuitive abilities they typically go into a meditative trance so there's this common thread where a slowing down of the mind seems to allow like our antennae to more clearly pick up the signal now I can absolutely relate to this because sometimes when I do work with clients and I say something in one of our deeper parts of the session they say that it's exactly what I just thought so there is certainly an exchange of consciousness that I mean word by word that kind of makes me always like you know wow what happens here what kind of exchange but I think what you're describing in regards to the consciousness being more open in a meditative like an alpha state is certainly something that you know could explain what happens now much more to talk about especially also telepathy as you just mentioned there is a chapter on animals which I just love because I think they may be more naturally able to tune in then we have been and then the big I question what's the meaning of life what happens afterwards where do we go stay tuned we will address it all and if you have a question again 893 zero two eight one night Wow what a great conversation I have to say sometimes you know when you have these talks and conversation with someone and something really gets teared up I mean at least for me it's like I get shivers and I definitely have some shivers here just talking about what Mark is sharing the research and you know things that maybe you and I have believed in but it's so nice and so refreshing to also see like that there is signs catching up and actually doing a great job - also maybe build the bridge so that this becomes more the new normal - no consciousness exists outside of the body and consciousness is real and something that quantum physics certainly has talked about that we can all more and more learn from and tap into now mark you also mentioned about quantum physics and some experience experiments that were done that further underscore what you are writing can you give us one or two experiments of quantum physics that you would still like yeah that's exactly the story of consciousness that I'm talking about here well I think there are two examples that are really important for any any person to understand and they're so counterintuitive and they're happening at really small scales of reality so we don't think about them we don't think they could be possible and yet they're being shown to be true over and over again and one is known as entanglement or quantum entanglements this is where you have a physical particle in one place and then another one in another place just to oversimplify it when you affect one the other one that's far away is affected at the same exact instant in a more elated way so it's suggesting that there's some kind of hidden connect connectedness that our eyes do not see so this is something that people like Albert Einstein looked at he called it spooky action at a distance minute right it's proved it because he thought that speed of light was the fastest anything could travel and yet here we have two things that are reacting at the same exact instant so he tried to disprove it he ended up actually proving that it's true and now it is generally accepted so people have surmised like dr. Dean Radin he wrote a called entangled minds so for entangled as part of the stream then maybe these telepathic incidences or where one person is in danger and another person seems to know it who's far away there are many cases of that where may be entanglement at the quantum level is in effect so what is that more with twins seemed like twins head also some kind of a more greater connectiveness in regards to these telepathic abilities it's something that seems to have occur where emotional closeness heightens the effect that we see with telepathy so the telepathy studies that i discussed in the book and maybe i can start by giving the example of the classic study which is where an everyday person has a subtle telepathic effect I think what you're alluding to is that when you have an emotional closeness whether it's a mother child or twins or identical twins even the effect is even stronger so it's kind of a spectrum which is I think it important for people to understand something I certainly didn't understand when I cut into this which is that there I think there's a tendency to think about this in a binary sense of the person is psychic as in there 100% psychic or they're not right the effects however are not like that it's beyond chance effects where it's just statistical where it's like if we expected things to to go according to chance in the study that I'll just how about I'm about to explain we would get 25% and yet we get 32% right just an increase of like it's an increase and it's it's an increase beyond what our modern science would predict so what I'm arguing is that rather than sweeping these anomalies under the rug maybe we should accept them as being real not call them anomalies and instead shift our framework of reality to be able to account for them now we had a caller and Carter I couldn't really read exactly what the question was can you tell us yeah Hellena had a question how do we use our consciousness to lose weight actually question I sure know studs you for a second mark so what's what's your answer is it that it's really funny that Elena asked that because I was just listening to a tape by dr. David Hawkins who I'm referenced in the book and he's someone who has reached very high states of consciousness now he passed away a few years ago but he reached states that are similar to what people talked about in the near-death experience or sometimes people who are meditators like this kind of totally unlock their filter and they experience this broader reality that typically it might take a psychedelic to achieve but he'd achieved it naturally but he was also a psychiatrist and one of his tapes talks about weight loss as it applies to these principles so for him it's about the concept of letting go of the craving 'no savita so it's it's it's shifting the the consciousness that we have towards eating and kind of not being attached to needing the food but rather treating it as just a part of life rather than just being totally attached to the outcome the other more specific thing that he recommends which may or may not be attached to consciousness is he says to always eat when you're not hungry that's an interesting one how does that work so you're always full yes he claims that people tend to overeat because they have this sense of hunger and then it heightens that the craving nough start of the craving nasai we experience as part of being a consciousness in a body we get kind of overtaken by our biological urges and when we connect to the broader reality of being a consciousness first and foremost we identify less with the body and then are less subject to the cravings now that brings up a question about the possibilities of this let's say the stream of consciousness like in the Whirlpool analogy now in this dream isn't there like an infinite eternal amount of possibilities included in that stream and in some ways similar to quantum physics the experiment of what you are observing that's what you're seeing is it possible that when you want to lose weight you see yourself always as someone who needs to lose weight or someone who has a problem with weight and if you are unlocking the filter and letting go like Hawkins suggests that you are actually maybe having access to another way of looking at yourself or another way of identifying yourself which is having no issue just completely being perfectly fine with who you are and how you look at I mean is that something that also this unlocking allows you to do just to completely shift your thinking about everything including yourself that's a great point I absolutely think that's true and it's a letting go of basically old programming that might come from childhood or from who knows where epigenetics past lives there are many reasons that we might have a program to have a perception in a certain from a certain perspective and when we examine that perspective from an objective point of view we might say wow that's really just an assumption I have about myself or about reality so when we break it and unlock the filter and kind of open ourselves up to broader possibilities maybe we let go of some of those old patterns now when you you know talk about the consciousness you also talked before about that well once the whirlpool is done it goes back into the stream meaning when the body is done we are reuniting with that consciousness in unfiltered ways what evidence is there for that well I think the the best evidence in terms of the reuniting comes from the near-death experience and these are instances where a person is an extreme physiological trauma such as cardiac arrest in the most extreme cases so these are people that are clinically dead blood stops flowing to their brain and by all measurable standards the brain is off and yet they're having extremely lucid thought processes and logical thought processes and they experience unconditional love and basically they're they're kind of talking about another dimension sometimes they're hovering over their bodies and they see things in the room and which are later shown to be accurate meaning it's not a hallucination because what they see from above their body is is shown to be true so we might be able to get a glimpse of this unfiltered reality may be outside of the stream through the near-death experience if we take that as kind of a literal description of what happens when we do die but you know the doubters are saying these are just brain chemistry changes your brain is firing something to alleviate the pain and and you had a good argument against that which was that the brain was actually not functioning at all at that time right right it's hard to make that argument if there's no brain on which those chemicals can act and that's what occurs in many of these instances and another thing is that sometimes we'll see an overlap in symptoms so you can say oh well when you have oxygen deprivation we see X Y & Z and yet in the near-death experience we see X Y & Z and maybe that's true but there are other things in the near-death experience that are not accounted for by these physiological explanations such as it's known as the life review that people report where they experience their whole life in a flash again while they're clinically dead they they reappear e'en civ ents from their life and they're judging themselves for how they acted and in some cases they actually take on the eyes and the body of the people that they affected so they experience or re experience the event through the eyes of the other people and that is something that would make a lot of sense if we are all part of the same consciousness and would not make much sense at all from the conventional view so that makes sense in regards to yes this is come it could happen to be able to tap into other people's consciousness but it almost could be then construed as well there is a final judgement and you have your life review and you will be either weight as to heavier to life I mean is consciousness judgmental the way it is reported is that the individual is judging him or herself the whole time so it's not a third-party judgement right way I look at reality is is kind of we're all interconnected as part of the same stream like the Kastrup analogy or as urban Schrodinger the the famous Nobel Prize winning physicist he says in truth there is only one mind so in a sense the individual is judging him or herself but that individual is part of the greater whole so it's like a self judgments and it's almost it resembles like school in a way as an analogy that's the way people kind of describe it when they come back is that we seem to be here learning how to interact with one another and then we see how we did during the life review to oversimplify things right so did you have a spiritual or some religious upbringing or did you just now have almost developed a new sense of spirituality through your work unconsciousness I've developed a new sense my perspective was that life had no meaning I was very strict about that because I thought that consciousness arose from the brain so I thought the awareness that I have right now was solely due to my biology and so when my biology stops functioning when the body dies then that implies the consciousness goes away so there's no memories there's no thinking no emotions and if you take that out even further it's really hard I think to come up with meaning in life beyond just rationalizing to make oneself feel better and I didn't want to rationalize so I really struggled with meaning and I just thought that it was all random and things would happen in life that seemed like they were good or bad but in the end it didn't matter because we're all gonna die and it sounds horrible but I think that's that is what the materialist view that science is promoting implies without what Rome you than even in life I mean you were always very busy and competitive and if nothing really has a meaning what get you go what got you going well I struggled with it because I I acknowledge that when I was that I felt Lin urge to do things and I felt a desire to do things and then I would say wait mark why do you care so I think over time if it had continued it probably would have been a greater and greater struggle I think it became more and more of a struggle over time but it was kind of just going on instinct and saying well maybe there are things that I don't know I don't know any differently so I'm just gonna do this but maybe it will never matter in the end towards you of you know my view now is that the body seems to be like a temporary stop for consciousness it's like a vehicle of experience so I do think that there is some meaning at least in the sense that consciousness seems to continue beyond bodily functioning so that alone is more meaning than what I thought before but I think if we go to the life review that's a really powerful idea if it's a real thing and not just a hallucination where people are Rhian seing events through the lenses of other people and actually in some cases you can have an indirect experience where there was a case of someone who who blew up people in Vietnam and in his life review experienced the pain of one of the mothers of someone that he blew up hmm so it's this interconnectivity that we seem to be a part of and we it's it's almost a test I'm not sure of how we can interact with ourself even though we are veiled and feel like we're separate from one another now you also mentioned that there is evidence for past lies that means like you would basically take pieces of this stream of consciousness from other lifetimes with you into this lifetime and then maybe make up for it or have another go around or how is that explained well I would have just said that reincarnation doesn't make any sense right before I started my research because again if you think consciousness is confined to our brain then it doesn't make sense how could it be recycled but if we're part of this stream then it's like one whirlpools dissolves into the broader stream and then is recycled into a new whirlpool maybe it has some water from another whirlpool and some from one from another and it's a combination but there you know it's a recycling almost there is in fact evidence for it and I think it's pretty strong it comes from the University of Virginia over 50 years of research at their division of perceptual studies at the Medical School this is a credible credible institution with people like dr. Jim Tucker and dr. Ian Stevenson who have examined over 2,500 cases of children who are usually between the ages of 2 and 5 in that neighborhood who are spontaneously talking about a life that is not theirs in such vivid detail that in some cases the researchers can find medical records or historical records that match the very specific person that that a child is describing I mean Brian Weiss work about past life regression certainly also something that is fascinating this regard and I do work with clients also in past lives whether it's a concept or not but it's something that really is to them very real very vivid and makes a lot of sense and it is also when you resolve something from that old consciousness is often a ripple effect into this life so it's a it's a very fascinating and in some ways and tragic but the bigger question that I have is if there is consciousness with all these wonderful you know recycling abilities and so on what's the purpose of consciousness what is it for yeah I think when we get into questions like that which are really why questions why does consciousness exist at all it is perhaps difficult or impossible for the human mind in our with all of our limitations to come up with an answer that is is comprehensible so the best answer that I can give after all the research I've done is that it seems to be that consciousness simply exists beyond all space and time without any primary cause it simply is and it seems like one of the properties of consciousness in addition to things like unconditional love that people experience when the filter is unlocked I think that's part of it but it seems like consciousness has a property of evolution where it's like a constant growth why I have no idea but it's something that comes up over and over again where it makes me think that it's just an innate property well I often have thought that maybe our experiences and again there's no scientific evidence for this but the way you're describing it our experiences may feed the consciousness that we are actually fueling through these bodily experiences and everything that we are later on once we're leaving this body sharing with consciousness we are fueling this stream with new information with new possibilities with new insights now again is this consciousness the equivalent of God what is this consciousness beginning and end we certainly don't know but in your book what really made me dizzy was your idea about the eye no no we don't have a lot of time left but let's our mind spin a little bit around the eye what is okay so when I say I like I am speaking to you what is that I that's that's what I call consciousness and again the old paradigm what I call the old paradigm it's the main stream paradigm of materialism that sense of identity that sense of I is just from brain activity but I spend a whole book showing evidence suggesting that it's not from brain activity that consciousness is in fact primary and that makes us re-examine our own identity when I say that I am speaking to you what is that I it's not something physical I can't touch it right so what is it and I go through an exercise that was inspired by Rupert spectra who is a I think an incredible philosopher of our time who really does some deep introspective exercises on examining that eye because it's so it experiences everything in our life it's not physical and yet it is always there so it is its ever-present that's one property of this eye that we have it is all you can't think of an instance where it wasn't there it was always it's always there so it's the exercise with a tree no this is a different one this is getting to what is I so one of the one of the properties and then therefore what are we what's our identity so it is ever-present in our own experience it is also without qualification in other words if I say I am mark the eye is unaffected by M mark if you know what I mean or I see the tree I see the couch I see the book I feel the sensation there is always the eye and then there's this experience that's happening around it right okay so it is it is basically unqualified or unlimited we can't put any limitation on consciousness or or on I so I is we've established that it is unlimited that it is ever-present it's also self aware I'm aware of myself it is this kind of meta thing where it is aware of its own existence so consciousness is unlimited self-aware and ever-present and it also has this kind of infinite quality in other words we can't pin it down it's location like it feels like it's in our head but if you close your eyes and really think about where your consciousness is there's no boundary that you can put on it it's this amorphous thing yeah it's not finite so in that sense we could call it infinite without border so now we've established just based on our own introspection that consciousness or I our own identity is limited self-aware ever-present and infinite now if we look at what religions have said about God throughout the ages they would say an infinite ever-present etc self-aware being is God now we look at the mystical traditions that have all throughout the ages whether it's the eastern traditions or Kabbalah and Judaism Gnosticism and Christianity Sufism and Islam they get it's a very non dual perspective that which I am that which experiences the body I is the the broader reality so Rumi the Sufi mystic he said something along the lines of I search for God and I only found myself I search for myself and I found God well and I think that's just a wonderful meditation because it also dispels everything about our false identities whether it's someone feeling they are overweight someone feeling they're not smart enough not good enough not lovable enough these are the identities that we are holding on to which are exactly the blocks that prevent us from connecting to that stream of consciousness you're talking about and everything one way of dispelling it could be just a meditation on that eye and be more in touch with the infinite and unlimited abilities or qualities of that eye so I really love that you shared this and I invite everyone to to do that now is there unfortunately we're already out of time so time apparently is sped up especially with that subject which is so fascinating and I definitely want to have you back on the show but talk about something that you feel like you would want to share with people to take this information and maybe make a part of it in their life make it a part of them well I think what you just said is really really critical and it might be the most important thing that someone can do from my own personal anecdotal experience and also from many friends and family members that have kind of been along the ride with me it is a powerful thing to reai denta fie oneself there's such a tendency based on what our eyes show us and what society says to identify with the I am my body my body has a consciousness that is one sense of identity but if we are the consciousness that experiences the body it's almost like awakening something that's always been there inside of us and with that reai denta fication i think things just happen anecdotally that I cannot explain so for your listeners who are thinking about practical issues like anxiety worry weight loss has to go I just get a single we have to go but well sorry for that but you buy the book mark over the end of upside-down thinking it's absolutely mind-boggling fascinating thank you so much mark and come back to the show for sure thank you so much for having me this was it Harmon radio wrap-up we'll talk again in a few weeks thank you for tuning in and thank you for listening take care bye [Music] you