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well as well as stopping construction of the mexico border wall cancelling the keystone pipeline and ending the travel ban on some muslim majority countries president joe biden last week signed a far-reaching executive order that hasn't been quite given the attention it deserves the executive order on preventing and combating discrimination on the basis of gender identity or sexual orientation has enormous consequences for young female athletes in american schools now any american school that receives federal funding must allow biological boys who self-identify as girls onto girls sports teams or face administrative action from the federal education department joining me now to discuss this from hobart is liberal senator claire chandler and from sydney columnist with the australian newspaper nick cater senator chandler thank you for your time thank you for coming on the show i know this is an issue you have been or very passionate about you've spoken out about in the parliament and you're not sort of backing down obviously this order in the u.s is cloaked with language diversity inclusivity and all of these things but in practical terms it will make huge changes wanted to women's sport absolutely peter i mean the executive order that you have said was administered by president biden on day one of his administration is effectively instructing agencies to force schools to allow biological males to compete against females and this should be incredibly concerning to for every um fair-minded australian because it's exactly what we've seen starting to happen in our own country where you have peak bodies like sport australia like our speak our peak sporting organisations doing exactly the same thing developing guidelines which encourage the inclusion of men who identify as women in women's sports to the exclusion in many cases are of of women and it's simply not fair and it's not safe and and to be perfectly honest i mean we knew that this was going to be happening with the biden administration we knew that this was part of his policy platform but i was frankly shocked to see it happen on day one nick cady you've written about similar issues in your column in the australian yesterday you spoke particularly about the experience of martina navratilova yeah well this is there's some irony in this peter martinez as you remember this time last year was protesting about margaret court and said that the margaret court stadium should be renamed because margaret caught's hurtful views on transgenderism and homosexuality and yet martina navratilona now has come out and and expressed her enormous concern about the idea that biologically male uh people who transition should be competing against women uh you know as claire has pointed out it it increases the danger in some sports quite considerably but it just changes the whole the whole thing i mean and this comes of course this whole movement comes from the gender studies and and and queer studies departments universities where they believe there is no no biological difference is just a social construct you know there's no such thing everything is a social construct and yet well it's quite an odd idea to you and i because we know that there is a very real difference and if you put a man against a woman on say the rugby field or even the tennis court you'll see that difference we've fought as women claire chandler for such a long time for there to be a decent pay for women's sport access to a range of sports i mean i grew up when there was no such thing as women's rugby women's afl now there is there seems to be no barriers to women and just as the time that i feel there's some sort of part in the pun level playing field you now have the case under the law in victoria as someone over the age of 16 can change their birth certificate with nothing more than self-identification a boy can call himself a girl and what it's open slather with the netball team it's open southern with women's sport i think that's a it's a backward move and you've got to wonder where the feminists are it's pretty catastrophic peter i mean i've spoken to sports women who um you know commenced their careers you know in the middle of last century talking about how they weren't allowed to run over a certain number of metres on the athletics field because it was determined that women couldn't run that far or having to wait for the blokes to play their game while the women waited around and provided them with their tea and sandwiches after the game before the women were allowed to get on the sporting field and compete themselves so i think as you've said there are significant consequences if if we don't try and achieve a sensible balance here and i think the sensible balance is starting from the point that women's sports should be for biological women and and there's every reason that should remain to be the case nick yesterday in your column you wrote about the conversion practices legislation in victoria it's in the parliament has not been passed you call it a trojan horse for activism of the most insidious kind and an attack on parental rights tell us why well what this bill will do will make it illegal punishable in some cases by up to 10 years in prison for you to counsel somebody that they they should they shouldn't change to the gender that they say they are because the what's happened in the last five years is there's been this growth in what they call affirmation therapy where somebody comes to you and says well uh i i'm a girl but i feel like i'm a boy the only thing you're supposed to say is well of course you're a boy you cannot argue against because it's supposed to cause irreparable damage to that person so as you said it is self-affirmation there's no other condition that i know of either a physical condition or a psychiatric condition where the same thing applies a doctor would normally apply his judgment but what's worse in this bill is it will apply to priests and counselors it'll apply to parents and in the case of priests it specifies that one of the illegal acts will be a prayer-like activity whether it's consensual or not i.e if a troubled 15-year-old comes to you as a priest and wants to talk about this and you as a priest drawing from your convictions say well i think you should say it's the gender that god intended you to be that will be a punishable criminal act and and whatever else this bill does that is the big warning sign that it should not pass and should be opposed when it comes before the upper house in victoria uh in a few weeks it's extraordinary in a child i can't buy a glass of wine if i'm under the age of 18 in victoria but if these laws go ahead i could change my gender overnight i could go forward with you know treatment that can't be reversed i could have a mastectomy everything could happen to me and there's no one able to give me an alternate view senator chandler what do you make of these laws well i think nick's categorization of this bill as a trojan horse is an incredibly accurate one and as nick pointed out there are serious concerns about the impact that this bill in victoria will have on free speech and our ability to have an open discussion about the appropriateness of some of these treatments i find it frankly baffling that at the same time that we have the curable case in the uk that has described some of these treatments for gender dysphoria and children as experimental at best we have an australian government the victorian government uh attempting to outlaw having these debates in the first place it is deeply troubling for free speech well senator claire chandler i know you will keep speaking about these issues i know there are easy issues to speak about that critically important and nick cater more strength to your arm and your pen as you write about them