Credible Countersignature Made Easy

Credible countersignature

good afternoon everyone um i can see we've got quite a few people here now so i think we'll get started um so welcome to this webinar uh it's been organized by the eastern area young persons network uh this event was organized with the aim of helping you work out how on where to get started the professional registration uh in a moment i'm going to hand over to dr nicola johnston um for her presentation and nichola has helped many people with within the institute of water with their professional registration journeys already and as herself a chartered scientist i'm also lucky enough to have nicola as my mentor with my own personal registration journey and i know how much helpful knowledge she has to share so i hope you'll enjoy it we're also going to hear later on from lucy heard who was a 2019 um cbd award winner so she'll be talking us through cpd a little bit more as well um and then at the end we'll also have time for some questions so if you do have any questions please put them in the in the box and we'll uh ask those of nicola and lucy at the end so if i could hand over to nicola now to begin good afternoon everybody hopefully everybody can see the slides and i'm sure you'll let us know if you can't see the slides um i'm really pleased to give this presentation this afternoon because when i started my chartered scientist application there wasn't really anything around to support people and i could have done with something really to help me on that journey so kind of part what i'm going to try and do today is give you what i felt i could have done with at that point in time but before we get into that um really what is professional registration about um and i think if i go back a few years it was a bit sort of a bit of a mystery for us when we started it it was about really it's about recognizing competence experience in your subject area and also demonstrating your understanding and knowledge and the reality is that there are lots of businesses throughout the uk and the world that are have professional registration underpinning them you wouldn't think about necessarily applying an accountant or somebody to build you a house without them having a professional qualification maybe as a chartered accountant or maybe as an engineer and should the water industry be any different well in reality if you look around there are lots of professional registrations and three of which are offered by the institute which we're going to go on to but you can even be a chartered professional within hr or even in payroll so there's lots of different opportunities around but why would you actually think about going down that route well it can bring you higher self-esteem and it certainly did for me higher earning potential and it can also help with your career prospects especially if you're not quite sure where you're going it also has been increasingly seen as in enhancing your employer's reputation so underpins what your customers and your regulators are actually seeing and actually demonstrating that you have suitably qualified staff working within the arena and it really shows your individual competence and ability and it also shows that you're keeping up to date because there isn't just that point where somebody says yes you've achieved your registration and it stops you continue on with your journey through continual professional development otherwise known as cpd and lucy's going to talk a little bit more at the end of this session about what cpd is so in reality you might be starting to think well yeah okay so what's on offer well the institute is very lucky and it's the only professional body that offers all three levels engineering environment and science so the engineering side you can go right away from the engine tech through to the chartered engineer for the science for the environment one you start at the tech and again goes through to chartered environmentalist and then for the scientists starting at the technician level going the way all the way through to charter ship and the ones that i tend to look after at the moment are on the scientific side so that's probably where my experience lies more but the reality is if you look at the application paths they're very very similar but you might be thinking about i want to get registered but i have absolutely no idea where to start and i certainly started the journey a few years before i actually achieved mine looking and thinking oh i don't think i can do that the reality is anybody can do it it's just putting the time in and the first place i would always recommend you start is the institute of walters webpage it has an excellent section on professional registration and it summarizes all three of them it includes how-to guides it covers very quick introductions as well and really gives you the signposts that you need and sometimes maybe is a little overlooked in reality but i think actually it's the best place to start read see what works for you but and as ellen sort of alluded to sometimes when you start that journey there's a little bit of a mystery of where do you actually start and for me the first thing i would always say is find somebody who can mentor you now it can be a line manager because they may know you the best um in reality they are more commonly mentors but it's not exclusive it could be a colleague i mention lots of my fellow scientists within my wider team and i'm not their direct line manager it's about somebody you trust who can give you the advice and the support that you need and have a professional conversation with ideally they need to be professionally qualified and that does help with the application but sometimes i have come across some organizations which are very small and maybe they don't have anybody who's been through this professional registration already so there isn't a natural person to mentor and that's where things like the institute of waters members portal can come in useful and actually anybody can register you can register to be a mentor or a mentee and the idea is it matches you up with people with a relevant experience and you will find people on there who will help you on your professional registration journey it also if you're really stuck as well the institute of water um our coordinator can help sarah and certainly i've ended up bringing up people who have sort of not had any experience in their company and having a chat about what it involves it's something about the fact that we want to give back as much as you get as well you do need an awarding body so for example the science one it's the science council is the underpinning who actually license it but the awarding body is the institute of water but you would notice if you were to do a quick google that there are other um awarding bodies that hold that um but the institutes of water is the one we're talking about here and it's about the fit the right fit for you one mistake people often make is not really knowing where what level they should go in at now as i showed you on the earlier slide you can start right down at the technician level and go all the way through to chartership and some people just look at it and go well i'll just skip the stages and go straight to chartership but actually like careers it should be a progression if you think about when you start in your career maybe you've been in your career 12 months the kind of chartership is more recognizing long-term career but technician might be suitable for somebody who's in early stage career but everybody's different depending on their background where they've come from what their experiences are so what i would really suggest you do is work with your mentor to make sure that you clearly understand what level is right for you now there's lots of tools um the science council have an excellent tool that i use a lot with people especially if they're undecided in terms of it asks you some very specific questions about the jobs that you do in your daily life and it gives you a prediction now it is only a prediction and sometimes i do have people who are borderline and sometimes it's a little bit better to go lower initially and then progress to the next level but equally i have had conversations with people and said you're actually applying too low you're under selling yourself so check those out they're really useful and those links are available as well the engineering council and the society of environment have similar guidance levels as well they do it slightly differently but again it gives you the kind of ideas in the what you can marketplace though is that the application paths for all three are quite similar um and on the left hand side you'll see the different levels i can just mark that with my mouse there for you so your technician levels you'll see here and they all follow a similar pattern and we're going to go into the specifics of that pattern shortly um but one thing that often appeals to a lot of people is the technician doesn't involve a formal professional review so it's done by remote assessment but don't let the professional ruby put you off it did put me off a little bit to start with but actually it shouldn't the registered and the incorporated engineer and then you're charted again similar application process but you do have a professional review and we'll talk about that you'll notice there's some academic benchmark qualifications on there and the reality is that gives you an idea what they're equivalent to so for example when you get up to the chartered level it's equivalent of level of a masters whereas if you're starting down at the bottom end it's around an a level but you do not need formal qualifications to apply for registration there are some very competent and very experienced and well respected scientists who are chartered within institute water who do not have formal qualifications so do not let that be a barrier to you they're only just to give you an idea of the equivalent level or grade they might be now i've used this example really because this is something i use quite a lot when i'm trying to get people to work out where they want to be especially if they're struggling to kind of decide and i'm just going to focus this is from the science council and we're going to talk in a second about the competencies but there are basically questions that you have to answer as part of your application and sometimes people really struggle to see the differences between the levels and this is true across all three of the different disciplines but if i use this personal responsibility and the b competency here as an example for the outside tech you'll see the wording is quite clear around minimal supervision so for me this is somebody if you put yourself in a lab situation they might be following a method preparing some results and handing that work off they don't really interpret it they just prepare it and that's your kind of our scientech level if you move up to the rsi one you start to see the words autonomous come in so in this case this might be somebody who's progressed a little bit further in their career they're now running those experiments they're getting those results but if something goes wrong they take responsibility for investigating it and putting it right so they're taking on additional responsibilities and you can see sometimes where people might be sitting between the two once you get sort of a little bit further on your career you might start maybe you might become a line manager or you might be a project manager or looking after an engineering project something like that you'll see that it talks about exercise and responsibility for myself and others and often people think that means you have to be something like an flm or a frontline manager um the reality is you don't have to be a manager because you can lead and exercise responsibility in different ways so you can see that the career span could be somebody down at this level on the outside tech would be just as at the entrance maybe a business whereas this one would be more as they progress within their career so i think in reality you don't have to go straight to the top you don't have to go straight to the bottom you go for the level that is suitable for you at that moment in time and actually once you've achieved that you can then work to your next level so i touched on the word competencies there and you'll see that um under all of these applications your registration there are lots of different sort of competencies but actually when you compare them all side by side they have generally five competencies knowledge and understanding design and development process system services and products quite long on that one responsibility management or leadership communication and interpersonal skills and professional commitment so you can see that they're very rounded as a personality it's not just about your knowledge it's about how you interact with people how you manage lead etc but one thing you need to remember about competencies and sometimes what people fall into the trap is that it's just about knowledge but actually competency is a component is actually the combined three elements of knowledge the skills and the ability so you've got the knowledge you've applied it and you've now got the skills to go through with it so it's all three things and then the slide sticks so if we look at each of the three registrations available at the institution of water you will see that the environmentalist has four competencies knowledge and understanding the environment sustainable management communication and interpersonal skills and then the personal commitment to professional standards and they do sound quite um not necessarily maybe explicit as to what they're asking you and that's where your mentor can help you translate because you've got to remember that these competencies go across sectors not just the water industry okay come on slide there we go engineering so on the engineering side very similar again knowledge and understanding design and development responsibility management communication interpersonal skills coming back again and professional commitment and then if we look at the scientist again same thing application of knowledge and understanding personal responsibility interpersonal skills professional practice and professionalism so you can see across the actual three disciplines there's a lot of commonality but again sometimes people are really stumped as to where to start so um one of the things that i do for the institute is i do do assessments for the science element and over time you do see that there's there's some common pitfalls that people fall into so kind of put together some top tips really for you completing your application first of all fill the application form in they are available on the institute's website so you download it and you fill in the boxes as relevant you do need to include your cv regardless of which discipline you're going for and that should have relevant qualifications training employment history um but as i said before you don't need formal qualifications if you are sending any certificates so for example degree phd msc if you have them you do need to send in a copy and your sponsor needs to have seen the original and the sponsor should sign the actual relevant section of the application form as well for you you'll need a cpd record now lucy's going to talk more about cbd so i'm not going to touch on that but if it's for a technician role that you're applying at level that's a 12 months worth you need for the registered and for the chartered it's two years and it should include an explanation of your development goals that's a common thing people often miss you should also include your current or latest job description or raw profile depending on your business and there is a fee to pay which is a registration and then there's an annual fee as well and some employees might support that certainly i'm very lucky that my employer does support that so it's always worth checking that out as well i go the right way i would help there we go so one thing that people really struggle with is translating the competencies into your work area some of them are very open statements and i often find people turn up with documents saying i really don't know what to write because i don't think i do this the reality is you do it's just cutting a sort of translation for it so read the competence and carefully um i like to highlight keywords in it and try and make sure that i've answered the keyword but before you write anything i always think it's better to print the application form off and look at each competency and try and come up with an example for it not write any more than that just the example that you're going to use because it gives you a much better starting point for that blank bit of paper if you like now i find that um with the competencies sometimes you may just get writer's block um and i think we've all been there i certainly remember with my own application having writer's block and sometimes talking to one of your colleagues somebody maybe sharing office with or work closely with they might just spark your imagination into oh you remember that project you did it's certainly happened to me when i did my application um one thing to bear in mind when you write up the competency your assessor will work in the industry but not necessarily your discipline so if you look at our assessors pool on the scientific side of things we have everything from regulators in scotland and england wales we have people who work in water recycling or sewage depending on how you call it um and also water and also laboratory environments and they're all very different so when you're explaining something don't assume the person works directly in the same part of the business that you do it doesn't have to be war and peace but a basic sentence explaining it just something that just makes it clear and that shows your knowledge as well which is really important if you use abbreviations which is perfectly fine make sure you explain them um if i had a pound i guess for every application i've read where somebody's put an abbreviation in but never actually explained what the abbreviation is um then yeah i'd be quite wealthy i guess but the reality is as well if you're doing um something that is very business specific maybe a project name or something like that just make sure you explain it you can use lots of different varieties um not just work-based ones so when you get to some of the stuff like the interpersonal skills and communication you might actually find some of the stuff you do in your personal life actually might come across quite well a lot of people do things involving charity watering coaching football teams scouts guides brownies all of this stuff could be used as part of your evidence when you write up your evidence the evidence is yours so everything should be i not we and that does also come if you get to the professional review um sort of situation i certainly was reminded a couple of times is it i or we and the reality is that's probably because we work very uh much as teams when we work normally but this is about your evidence be explicit about what you did and what and what your role in that project was or that piece of work that you're presenting and always make sure your mentor reads your application having somebody who isn't sort of emotionally attached to that application can be a really useful sanity check and i've certainly read applications where the detail is really good but it's just that one sentence that misses the explanation of what something is um and i'm sure the people that i've mentioned in the past but i've sent it back to them three or four times in order just to embellish that a little bit more add a little bit more here probably think i'm being really pedantic but in reality it helps the reader and smooths the process through i've also know a few people who've got people who are completely independent of their work to actually read it as well and sometimes again that gives that little bit of impartiality as well so once you've finished your application you've got it put together um you send it into our coordinator sarah done at the institute and sarah is very efficient at getting them sorted out she will then search for two assessors from the pool and they've got to be impartial so one of the things that we have to make sure is that if we know the person or maybe i'm mentoring somebody i would rule myself out for an assessment so i generally find that i don't do any within the water area of the business that i work in because i know people too well i tend to do it maybe from the laboratory environment or the water recycling or even outside the anglian water where i work so that it makes sure that we're impartial and it's fair and those two assessors could come from anywhere across the pool now if you're going down the technician route that's done as a review a paper review so whatever you submit the assessors would see they would then compile their recommendation and that would go off to the board and we'll come to that in a second but if you're going down the registered or charted side of things the assessors will do exactly the same thing they will review and feedback to the coordinator how they want to proceed so if it's got to go to a professional review and now i also have to use say the word interview does not come into professional review a lot of people think this is about a grilling and it's going to be like a job interview i do want to dispel that myth this is about a professional review with two colleagues and having a conversation about your work we want to see that that work is yours and understand how you work some people are really good on paper some people are much better in person some people it's a blend of the two and we use evidence from both elements to effectively come to a decision about it so don't be nervous of your review we try and make it as relaxed as possible i know we're never going to get completely you're going to be completely relaxed as soon as we say you're going to have two reviewers but we do try and make sure you enjoy the experience prepare with your men to have a chat about what questions might be asked think about the sort of things they might be asking you there's lots of things that are topical in the industry you know think about those sorts of side of things you'll be asked about your work you'll be asked about your experiences you can bring your report with you can bring anything you want with you to show um and in reality there will be a chat normally about an hour but it can be longer can be shorter depending on the person and it's worth saying at the moment don't think that the whole uh with cover 19 are restrictions about not putting your application in because i think so far during lockdown i've done at least two professional reviews very successfully by skype so in reality that is not a barrier to um going through we're keeping the show on the road if you like with that what you won't find out on the day is you won't find out the decision from the two assessors we're not allowed to give you a decision on the day what we do do is we will write up that decision we will then pass it over to the water science engineering or environment panel and they will then decide whether they agree with our decision or not generally they will do and then you get two outcomes you get an award so you get your registration you're done you'll get a letter um from then saying well done etc or you can be referred now referral we don't use the word fail because it's not about failing it's just you're not quite there um and there can be many reasons for that sometimes it can be people have applied at too high level and should have maybe gone in at a lower level it may be just that they haven't put sufficient evidence in there's all sorts of different factors so what we will do as the assessors is we will compile detailed feedback if there's a particular area that we think is a problem or is insufficient in evidence then we'd actually go back and give you that opportunity to resubmit with that evidence and that's not uncommon so don't be disheartened if that was to happen um we're we have to make sure we're upholding the standards so that is why we have to be so firm but obviously you want to know that it's done fairly as well so that's the kind of key things okay so i'll go the right direction so you might actually think well i'm still not sure whether it's worth it or and to be fair for me um i thought it was kind of useful just to give you my personal reflection of registration i worked later this year 22 years for angling water and i joined the industry with um my bachelor of science and my phd in microbiology which were fine and i touched very briefly on the water industry throughout that but in some time as time went on i felt a little bit like i didn't have the formal industry qualifications where maybe people had degrees in water science for example or water treatment and the opportunity came up around 2013 to be in the first group going through for the science accreditation through the institute and i was very lucky to get awarded so that was um really really pleased with um and it did feel like it kind of was a bit of a professional stamp on my career but actually i think if i reflect now it was a starting point not an end point um since then i've been lucky enough to train with the science council to do assessments for them and also do that institute water led on to be mentoring which has broadened my experiences considerably and we run an internal um institute run a cpd monitoring exercise so i've been involved in assessing that and the last few years judging the cpd awards and every time i do any of these activities i learned something about myself something about the business and i also pick up little nuggets of how i can apply things back to my own development as well earlier this year got the distinguished member award from the eastern area which was was really nice but actually when i look back on it really for me is the wider professional and personal network that i've developed and it's a whole 360 process in reality what i give is what i get back and i know during that journey it's helped me expand my skills and knowledge so i know that the whole thing is definitely an improvement for me so if you're thinking about where you want to look for some more information there are three good videos that are linked up onto the website um onto the institute's website i'm not going to play them just now because one of them's about 45 minutes long and i think that's a little bit much for this webinar but they're really good introductions into um the world of registration um i'm going to hand over to lucy now who's going to just talk to us a little bit more about cpd hi thanks nicola um yeah so i'm lucy heard i've been kindly asked to share some of my experiences and give you a little bit of an overdue overview of the benefits of cpd um so as you know it's a requirement of professional registration but even if you've not decided to go down that route cpd is really something that you're going to want to still do it helps keep you up to date and competent with your specialism it's a key part in gaining credibility as professionals that you are um it can create um really good job satisfaction especially if you're coaching and mentoring others plus being in control of your own development plan and plugging the skills gaps to achieve your goals is a really empowering thing to do and can open the door on career opportunities that you may not even thought about i think personally for me half the journey is deciding on what you really want from your career and defining your goals in the months running up to my 2019 cpd award last year i was purchasing spare parts operational equipment until one day i kind of opened a blank document and thought right what's the plan for a complete u-turn into change management because i decided that was where i wanted to be it was quite daunting at first but cpd is one of those things that quickly becomes second nature especially if you set yourself some regular time aside maybe once a month to keep it updated and keep prioritizing new things that have popped up using the history of water cpd guide i set out to align best practices progressed into a new role and gain experience and crucially evidence by credibility which has led me to some really great things that i've done and i've helped develop the analytics competency framework within angry morso which outlines the key skills and training required to attain internal certification as an analytics professional through that i've done lots of um fun things delivering cpd workshops across our business and developing learning materials and working with other external training providers and i'm now expanding my professional network and for the industry of warsaw itself i helped with the cpd monitoring exercise that nicola mentioned earlier on and more recently i've been invited to the judging panel of this year's 2020 institute of water cpd award unfortunately applications for that award is now closed um but usually you'll submit your award via the cpd portal that institute water have got their own tool there um always some other format that works for you um i submitted mine over a year ago and it joined a pool of others highly commended from the annual cpd monitoring exercise nominees are whittled down and invited to a lovely president's award dinner where the cpd awards and highly commended awards were formally presented and if you get a chance to go you really must and the atmosphere were just really really amazing so bringing onto this slide this is really to signpost you to the cpd cycle and matt brower's recent cpd video recording where he explains this in a lot more depth and just be aware when you click the link you'll need to register but then you'll be able to get watching straight away so the key takeaway from this video is that cpd is an infinite cycle of scoping identifying skill gaps knowing where you are now or where you want to be and planning which is setting your goals breaking those bigger goals into smaller smart goals and doing which is the really fun bit which doesn't have to be stuff that you take away from work it could be things that you're involved with outside of work like if you uh part of a pta organization for your local school or you're a marathon runner or whatever and then um the hard bit which people kind of struggle a little bit on is the recording part of it and the reflecting so um what did you do when did you do it why did you think it was a good idea and did it deliver on your expectations and how does that impact your development goals um and then the continuous cycling this continuous cycle part is then feeding that back into um scoping again and so did you actually achieve your goals and what's next for you so i suppose that kind of brings it nicely to the end i'll cross back to nicola for the closing slide excellent well thank you for that lucy i think in reality you might find you still have questions and i think that's not unusual and what we've done is lucy and i have put our email addresses there we're both happy to be contacted if you've got any questions but also sarah done at the institute is also a great person to connect with because she can put you in touch with other members who might even be working within your business that you don't even know at this stage okay so i think we're going to move to any questions i think hello my name is josh and i'm currently lucky enough to be involved with the eastern area young person network i'd like to say a huge thank you to dr nichola johnson and lucy hurd for doing today's presentations have been great so let's start answering some of the questions that have came in during the webinar and the first question that's come in uh is is having a mentor mandatory for achieving registration or chartership i think boston is probably best for you nicola no it isn't in reality you do need a sponsor though so you will need somebody to sign it and certainly we encourage all sponsors to read the application um if you struggle to find a mentor then i would look at something like the institute of water mentoring program because there are lots of people in there that are happy to do that um definitely make it easier put it that way uh another question that's come in is someone has a masters currently would you recommend i'm going towards an eye edge or a c eng first oh that's a good one now not my area of his speciality so what i would do is go to the institute's page look at the registration criteria and it will tell you there because depending on the level it might send you higher um the masters depends on which one you're going for so for example on the science one we used to say if you had a master's you didn't have to write an extended report we've taken that away and now you write an extended report instead of writing an equivalence report so definitely check the web page it will tell you and if you can't find the information out sarah dunn will be able to put you in touch with somebody who can answer that one for you brilliant thank you another question that i think my best suit for lucy actually is when doing your cpd is it a benefit to have a mixture of activities which are about yourself and what are benefits of how it affects other people um i think if you are using cpd for professional registration absolutely having a mixture there is really good kind of show what a rounded individual you are and it gives you opportunity to network in different circles um i also think that it has to be something that works for you it's not just a case of having 18 different types of cpd activity it has to be something that's adapted to your learning style and personally i'm quite a visual person so i prefer the webinars because then i can sort of linger on a slide and really digest it and take it in which would help you when i apply it back in my organization but at the end of the day and choose the activities that are best for fitting you and try to work it into your daily lifestyle brilliant um another question that's been asked actually a couple of times now is if you apply for you're no longer in that discipline no more but you still wish to apply for registration in that field what would you recommend so one example was someone who's been working a laboratory who no longer works in one would still like to start the restoration path really in the science field what would you recommend to that person okay so it what they tend to do for the registration is you look back at the experience so you normally talk about sort of three to five years backwards if that makes any sense so certainly i have had a couple of people who have maybe been in a role and then maybe moved out of a role mode slightly a different direction and still have successfully applied it's about the currency of the information and i guess if i was assessing certainly from a science one i would be kind of asking why are they doing it what's their career pathway and if it's helping to progress a caterer then you certainly can and i've certainly interviewed people who've maybe moved into management positions who don't maybe do hands-on sort of laboratory science but still apply their science within their role and that still is applicable one thing i think that sometimes there's a bit of a misnomer about this from science point of view is you have to work in a laboratory i don't work in a laboratory and haven't since i did my phd so and that doesn't make me any less of a scientist because i use my scientific skills in lots of different ways so i would certainly have a chat with somebody have a chat with a mentor more than happy to take an email if you want to talk through the specifics no brilliant thank you for that we'll have one more question which i think could be quite good actually is where would you advise someone starts tackling a pressure registration or cpd as well i said both you can answer this if you would like to that's a good one the try answer is to say at the beginning but the reality is the blank page is terrifying and i've sat there with the blank page um for me cpd can be a really good place to start i usually encourage people who i know are going to go down registration because we encourage all our scientists to go down the registration room as part of their development so i kind of cover it off with them in week one um it doesn't always get started in week one unfortunately um but i always say it's to start with your cpd because that can really be helpful when you write your report because if you're struggling for an example and you go and look at your cpd there might be an example on there that will help bring you into writing your competency but the two are intertwined i would say do you see anything you want to add yeah i'm going to say i think i like five that um you don't have to start from scratch with your cpd record the institute of warfare a really good tool there where um it's kind of delivered in a way whereby if you answer the questions that are put to you then you will be given the right responses into the boxes and your cpd is not like a training record with times and dates there's lots of lots of different templates that you can download off the internet if an excel document or something similar will suit your style um but it's more the most important thing about the reflection and the evaluation part so sometimes an activity may not have been as you expected but no effort is wasted effort when it comes up with another opportunity so just be careful on what templates that you select to make sure it hits the um institute of water cpd guidelines yeah and it's worth just saying if you are submitting your cbd you don't have to use the institute of water templates as long as you follow those guidance and i we see lots of different versions but avoid the temptation to produce a shopping list because sometimes we do see shopping lists and that's not cpd it should be a little more than that there's more to it in that and certainly as lucy mentioned matt bauer did a really good cpd webinar and i would encourage you if you are thinking about it to watch that one uh retrospectively as well because it will give you some really good tips as well on where to start lovely thank you answers as much appreciate that is so i think that'll bring to close weapon off those days so i'd like to say a huge thank you to all the questions i've been asked i present yesterday now thank you to everyone who's attended this webinar this afternoon any question haven't been answered we'll try our best to get some answers back to those people who asked it or for a q a so she it comes out with feedback hopefully also thank you to nicola as well um for doing this with us thanks for having us thank you once you leave today's webinar you'll receive a survey about our today's presentation and if you could put it back in and send it back be much appreciated that'd be great so thank you to everyone and have a good afternoon