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[Music] newfound gold has discovered 93 grams per ton of gold over 19 meters starting at only 96 meters down hole some of the biggest names in the mining world have shown their approval of what new found gold has discovered they now own over 35 percent of our shares with over 70 million in working capital newfound gold is well positioned for what the future brings [Music] to learn more find us online at newfound gold dot ca welcome back to palisade radio i'm your host tom bodrivex and joining me today on the program is mark o'byrne research director at goldcorp how are you today mark sorry good tom how are you excellent great to have you back uh i thought we could start by talking a little bit about what a currency reset could look like and what some of the parameters would be to consider when we're thinking about something like that um well it won't be pretty let's put it that way it'll be very messy but i mean there's so many variables that it's very hard to be definitive about it the bottom line is that we were some of the first analysts to talk about this back in the mid 2000s should we say you know in the 2007-89 period we started talking about because we thought it was quite likely then given the scale of debt in the world and and now yeah it's it's even more likely today obviously because the debt is even bigger today than it was then and the fail of the coming financial and economic depression is going to be so huge that uh yeah a reset is very very likely so and in effect what what they're doing is it's a little bit like the historical precedent is what president roosevelt did in 1933 so he basically devalued the dollar and revalued gold he devalued the dollar because it was massive deflationary pressures because businesses were failing massive unemployment there was a lack of demands businesses and banks indeed were vulnerable to collapsing so in order to engender inflation they devalued the dollar and basically some people say they confiscated gold they didn't really compensate all the confiscators the currency at the time which was the dollar which was backed by gold so they confiscate the currency at the time in 1933 at 20 dollars for ounce and then a few months later they quickly revalued they had the gold from the people the people didn't get the benefit of this revaluation as is frequently the case the government said the central banks did so then they revalued the goal from twenty dollars or thirty five dollars per ounce a seventy percent increase overnight by government fiat a government dick that and they fixed the price down thirty five dollars rounds and that basically meant that the dollar was devalued vis-a-vis currencies around the world and yet gave the u.s uh economic advantage as a form of a competitive currency devaluation so the same thing is going to be seen again sorry not the same thing a similar thing that's why people look at that president and it doesn't mean we're going to have a confiscation of gold because so few people in the western world actually own gold so they're not going to compensate gold at an individual level but well they will confiscate gold is most probably at the exchange level and gold may be compensated from the large gold exchanges and the exchange traded funds as well but the bottom line is yes so currency reset means you're devaluing your currency versus gold particularly the dollar because the dollar remains the reserve currency of the world and the speculation is that the monetary authorities would be the bank of international settlements the imf and international monetary funds they come together and they plan the devaluation of the dollar but most probably in conjunction you couldn't do it solely with the dollar so most probably in conjunction with other fiat currencies whether it be the euro the pound uh and other fiat currencies and they may then peg gold at a certain price and a lot of people focus on the big round number of ten thousand dollars for that answers example but you could have gold at ten thousand euros rents ten thousand pounds they could take it with a lot of different currencies around the world and then they do a quasi-backing of those currencies with gold because putatively the us has 8 100 megatons of gold in not in fort knox actually in the new york federal reserve is where it's meant to be but obviously it hasn't been audited since the 1950s so there are question marks about that but the accepted world view and and what's said by the authorities is they do have 800 metric tons and therefore they would partially back or fully back this new currency that's set reset at say as an example ten thousand dollars per ounce and then the euro zone central banks the bundesbank the italian central bank the french central bank they all have quite large gold reserves as well but certainly they haven't been allowed a long period of time and potentially a lot of these gold reserves have actually been lent into the marketplace so they might not be outrightly ownership of these gold bars in the central bank gold reserves but only so that's roughly how it would look um and but there are just as i said so many variables it's hard to to map it out but the bottom line is that it would happen probably quite quickly over a bank holiday weekend um frequently people say it could happen in august because that's when this was less economic activity it might be less disruptive to economies so you might announce a bank holidays or on a friday evening saturday morning and the banks and the markets might remain closed on the monday tuesday and then you basically reset the currencies so i think it's closer now than people think i don't think it's we're in august now it doesn't look like it's going to happen this month but sorry the other time it could happen is christmas time as well is another time that's potentially you might see a formal currency reset but it depends the bank the the central banks and the western central banks and the institutions of the west may be forced to do a currency reset potentially if the chinese were to go and back their currency with gold and there's a lot of talk about that as well and a new digital renminbi or digital chinese yuan with some form of gold backing and therefore if the dollar starts coming under pressure and there's a lot of chatter and much more than channel a lot of op-eds from some quite the problem people and goldman sachs themselves morgan stanley very senior people writing pieces in bloomberg and financial times and the foreign policy talking about the end of the dollars and reserve currency and they're not talking about in the medium long term they're talking about the short term potentially quite sharp evaluations of the dollar you know so i think it's looking likely at some stage next year that that happens and that's roughly how it will happen you know so as we're speaking about the revaluation of the currency let's kind of transition to something that seems a little bit more tangible at this time and that's the risk of attacks in the futures markets how do these work and why do they try and drive down the price like this well yeah we're not actually talking about revaluation of the currencies we're talking about devaluation of the currencies but in that context gold then becomes revalued and gold becomes the the currency of last resort and indeed the money of last resort yeah regard to attacks on the futures markets i i mean i wouldn't claim to be the expert on that although i have written about it and considered it for many many years in our in our daily market updates on goldcore.com and the people who put me onto it were gath at the gold anti-trust action committee and they've amassed a huge amount of evidence including official documents over the years and indeed the banks have been fined and prosecuted and they've been found guilty of manipulation you know and basically how they do it is as you alluded to there it's in the the futures marketplace they can go in and if they want to push the gold price down significantly or indeed the silver price down significantly they can use the futures price to go in and aggressively sell thousands and thousands of futures contracts of gold in a concerted manner in a short period of time and that can push the gold price down very very quickly indeed and the nearest contract futures price which is the price that would tend to be manipulated is pushed down you know 100 dollars or 50 has been seen very frequently including recent months at very counter-intuitive times when there's been no data points there's been no economic statistics released no jobs figures no gdp figures no gold data no for no reason whatsoever in the middle of night frequently in liquid asian trading suddenly there's massive selling of futures and all it takes is a trader on the desk of a large wall street bank to press the sell button on a lot of futures contracts to push the futures price down quite sharply and then that ultimately feeds through the spot market and ultimately it leads to a fall in the actual spot price of gold and the small price of gold is obviously which dictates the price of physical gold and physical silver so it actually can lead to a decline in demand for physical silver because people can get nervous when they see this they might be about to buy physical silver and gold in volume and suddenly see the price fall very sharply overnight for no reason whatsoever and that does make people nervous and it particularly makes new investors nervous because they say oh well it's very volatile or i don't understand this why did this fall very sharply and it can make them nervous and they can put off your novice investor from coming into the marketplace you know or indeed it can lead them to suspect that there may be maybe manipulation and that can make them nervous as well because they then think oh well if wall street banks can manipulate the price lower why would i invest in this you know so it's important people realize that yes it has gone on and there's a huge amount of evidence there gatta have done the work in this regard and on other people many many people including universities have crunched the numbers and they've come to the conclusion that there is manipulation but the bottom line is as we see with gold prices at all-time record highs and we're touching two thousand dollars in the spot market now and that's because ultimately the forces of supply and demand and the over seven billion people on this planet will ultimately dictate the price of gold not the you know playing around on computers and electronically selling futures contracts and that's why gold prices have gone to 2 000 rounds because global demand is internationally is very very strong indeed and meanwhile the supply is quite anemic at best you know so people need to remember that don't worry about short-term manipulations they have been quite successful in the short term but then the medium and long term you know gold prices will go higher but given the scale of global demand and that was seen obviously between 2000 and 2011 when gold prices went from 250 in the year 2000 to nearly 2 000 in 2011 so they're powerful in terms of manipulation they can be better from the short term but in the long term the laws of economics and universal laws will dictate the price of gold and silver mark as we speak about that it reminds me of another one of your guys's articles that you have posted on the site entitled short-term weakness likely prior to massive short squeeze propelling gold and silver to much higher levels are we seeing some of the factors of the attacks play into that short-term weakness yeah because there was some selling there last week that came out of the blue i think it was overnight in asia you know when these manipulations happens you know even a year ago two three four years ago basically prices fell by much more and it tends to be followed through selling and it's very difficult to tell in the short term you know but recently when there has been what appears in the manipulation the they don't seem to be as successful getting the price lower and the tends to be people the prices tend to bounce back quite quickly as well you know so there's a lot of people talking about the short skis and they've been talking about it for a long time and it hasn't happened but as we know just because things don't happen for a long time doesn't mean they're not going to happen you know it means you're probably closer today when it does happen and what's very interesting as well it's important that your list was aware of this is this is moving from beyond the fringe you know because these people who have talked about manipulation have been dismissed as conspiracy theorists even gather sometimes mean business conservancy tears which is outrageous because they've amassed a huge amount of evidence you know from from mainstream sources and from the central banks themselves but now it's actually going into the mainstream because a journalist called john otters who was quite a respected journalist a senior guy in the financial times for many years he's now working with bloomberg he's quite a senior i think he's an editorial writer he's definitely an opinion writer for bloomberg specifically on markets and he wrote an article there on july 27 so only a week and a half ago so basically saying and that this is the title of the article a mighty short squeeze may be building in gold and then the subtitle is an increase in demand for physical deliveries could trigger a parabolic rise and cause problems for banks so that right there is is what i think is going to happen and it may not happen in the coming few short days or coming few short weeks but i believe it will happen and i think will happen the coming weeks the coming months you know and we're going to have a show me the money moment show me the real money show me the real goals because there's a lot of ponzi goalie there there's a lot of electronic gold but the real gold is in very short demand indeed you know so the notion that gold is overvalued these levels is complete nonsense because we are most probably going to see this massive short squeeze you know interesting as we're speaking in august here there's a typical seasonal sweet spot from july to september could you tell us more about that yeah it's been seen if you go back in 10 years 15 years 20 years yet it's quite clear in the data and it's very difficult to know why different people deposited certain theories why that might be the case but there's no real clear reason for it till the truth and this you know it might be just a seasonal factor and it could be somewhat of a self-fulfilling thing that traders look at the historical and the monthly performance and therefore they tend to be more long in these monsters you know the traders who have a more short-term perspective are aware of these short-term seasonal influences and therefore they can actually they can become self-fulfilling because they may position themselves in these months for gains you know and then conversely they might lighten up positions in months where gold tends not to as well you know august is interesting because the tendency appeared when wall street goes on holidays and not just wall street uh you know traders in london and in paris and zurich in hong kong singapore many of them particularly in the western markets would take holidays in august and they go to their retirement villas and their boats so there tends to be less liquidity in stock markets and there can be corrections in stock markets as well and therefore that's another reason why potentially traders might park money in gold in that summer period you know so august tends to be strong september tends to be strong and then october there tends to be a correction and that could be because gold can be correlated with stocks in the short term and therefore october it can be a a very wicked month indeed for stocks as we know and and the track record for soccer in october doesn't tend to be great so therefore gold can be correlated with stocks in short-term and therefore it can fall but yeah so for whatever reason it tends to be the second half in july uh july cell tends to be quite strong august very strong september very strong and then uh yeah there can be a dip down in october but then it does tend to be strong into year end november december and january and then it tends to dip again around the february march april may period for whatever reason you know so i think given the current climate and what's happening in the world with this pandemic and the crazy response in terms of economic and societal lockdowns i think people should probably not pay too much signal to the seasonal thing unless you're a very short-term trader you know and just focus on the real world fundamentals of the golden silver markets today and as we're considering the quote unquote real world fundamentals where could we see gold and silver prices over the next 12 months mark um it's very difficult to say but in terms of being prescriptive and i'm very lucky to get into prescriptive prices but so when forced to you look at the big round figures i think it's bank of america obviously bank of america city and goldman sachs have all been very bullish and they were all calling for 2000 gold and we've pretty much reached 2000 gold you know so i think the next big psychological round figure is obviously 3 000 gold and i think that's quite possible in the next 12 months you know i think we'll end year end probably above 2000 we we may get up as high hundred as thousand two hundred in the year end and then get a correction but i think if you gave it twelve months out to august twenty twenty one i think three thousand dollars for instance quite likely you know and with silver who knows there's much more volatile beasts but we would be much more bullish on silver than we are in gold because the ratio even after the massive price appreciation silver last month silver's up 35 percent in one month i think it's the best month silver's had in 30 years but even at that the goal set ratio is still around 75 to 1. so silver still looks very at the press visa v gold and therefore a lot of big money around the world are aware of that we're seeing that in our flows we've got seen a lot of demand for tesla and silver bars and the premiums have gone up which is interesting on a wholesale level that previously know 50 percent so the swiss refineries we buy from their previously gone up for the large bars so that's a clear indication and this has barely been reported again it's a clear indication that of the scale of the demand for silver bars so any silver who knows but i think fifty dollars for answers is quite likely in the next 12 to 18 months you know and when we get there we'll all do back at the levels we are seeing in 1980 which is pretty incredible you know as we're speaking about demand for bullion obviously you have a unique perspective working with gold core but you and i were discussing before the call about the world gold council saying that demand for coins and bars has fallen by 17 for the first half of this year is that something that you feel is accurate no i don't know and it's just totally counterintuitive because we know that demand for coins and bars around the world has gone through the roof you know the the mints have reported that the government's reporters the refineries have reported it and indeed the dealers around the world have confirmed that this massive demand on president and you know getting back to the level of demand we saw in two days the last financial crisis in 2008 9 10 you know so we're seeing that with huge demand for both silver and gold coins and bars in the falls particularly in zurich but also in singapore and in london and to a lesser extent in dublin and that's been seen by you know we speak to the dealers in in the western world we speak to dealers in hong kong in asia they're all seeing massive demand you know so i think the world gold council data is not actually capturing the scale of the demand for coins and bars that's out there because a lot of it is not declared i mean we occasionally report our statistics in terms of demand and assets under management but we don't automatically report it on monthly or quarterly basis nor do any of our competitors report that into whether it be the lbma or the world gold council so therefore the data they have on coin and bar demand is i don't think it's accurate you know um because you know we know that the etf demand is going through the roof so it sort of stands a reason that coin environment would be going through the roof at the same time you know and not not have fallen very sharply as was suggested in that report you know so i think the man is much stronger it's also and the comics i mean reuters reported uh it was on reuters india very bullish gold stories and reuters tend to be in reuters india not on reuters.com uh for whatever reason 102 tons so reuters on roger's injury report that 102 tons of gold changed hands on comics biggest ever delivery day so this is the biggest day of deliveries of physical gold on the comics 102 tons of gold uh when these futures contrast expired we're taking delivery of you know so demand is is huge because of people realize the coronavirus is leading to lockdowns and ultimately to a massive depression you know so the demand is huge globally and and supply is it naming it best to supply i think they're more accurate on the supply because the the mines have to report their their statistics because they're publicly traded most of the the bullion dealers like ourselves are not publicly traded entities most of all providers are not publicly traded entities so they don't report their statistics but the mines most of them are publicly traded and the mines actually reports their their production statistics you know so the world gold council based on what some reports of them the the gold mining industry have said that supply in h1 fell six percent year and year so we have very significant increase in etf demand a significant increase sorry central bank demand remained high it did fall year and year but it was still quite high and i believe that the coin of iron man was much higher than the official statistics show you know so you need to take them with a pinch of salt i would suggest and realize that demand globally for coins and bars whether it be in etf format or in vaults in zurich and switzerland and around the world and there's lots of new vault providers and recent years that set up you know and they do not report what they have this there's massive vaults up in the alps we know some of these providers have also opened the apps and the swiss banks are buying a lot of gold for their high net worth and ultra high network clients in quite a big way and it's not being captured in statistics or even the headlines and that's what's going to contribute ultimately to this massive short squeeze at the much higher prices you know so yeah it's an important consideration that and as you're speaking about the the banks taking delivery for their high net worth clients we're also seeing a surge in platinum bar deliveries which is maybe something that not very many people are thinking about because we normally just think about the two kind of poster children of the precious metals gold and silver so can you tell us a little bit more about the surging of the platinum bar deliveries and why that is yeah it's it's like gold i think people realize there's a lot of value there and platinum is very very impressive you look at the long-term charts of platinum it looks along with gold and particularly silver it does look very depressed palladium has had quite a big move up what platinum is yesterday yet to move up this remains below two thousand dollars for ants you know and platinum was trading it's just bringing up here like as recently as 2008 just before the last financial crisis that was trading over two thousand dollars per ounce you know today we're below one thousand dollars for rents in 1980 march 1980 silver was nearly touched again it was up at 960. nearly touched a thousand dollars rounds in in april 1980 so if you just for inflation that platinum price that's the nominal price of 1980 if you're just for inflation that platinum price of 1980 is probably two thousand five hundred three thousand dollars per ounce and today as i said it's it's around what that just it's below two thousand dollars around so a lot of big money players i think both industry players who use platinum aussie platinum is different than it's a golden server it's used quite significantly in industry including in the car industry and catholic converts and that it's also used quite a bit in jewelry as well so i think a lot of people whether it be industrial players but i think also investors see platinum as good value prices below thousands and in the same way that they took delivery of of gold after comics 102 tons of gold off the comics the biggest delivery uh ever they're taking the platinum off the exchange in a big way as well you know so it bodes very well to the pattern price i think it does remain quite depressed and i think we're going to see it run in the same way that we've seen platinum run and i think two thousand dollars per ounce is yeah very likely in the coming year or two years you know could we see that same kind of surge in palladium or are they correlated in any way yeah yeah well they're all correlated so much i think platinum would be more correlated with the precious metals gold and silver than palladium would but obviously there is a correlation with platinum and platinum as well palladium has moved up massively in recent months you know so i think platinum's gonna follow suit and when platinum moves it really really moves i mean it's interesting when you look at the charts platinum was you know below 500 per ounce back in 2001 and then it went up to uh so yeah it's below 500 and it went up four times up to 2000 in 2008 but when it really moved it was actually just below a thousand as recently as 2006 uh late 2006 and then when i moved uh within two years it had doubled to over a thousand went over 2100 you know so when platinum moves it really really moves and i think it's it's lagged palladium and and the similar fundamentals similar demands but i think platinum is is more of a precious precious metal uh it doesn't have monetary characteristics ultimately like gold and silver but it does have investors do see it as a hedge not as much as the hedge or a safe haven mass as gold and silver but some investors do see it very much as inflation hedge and it is very much inflation edge as well and did very well in the 1970s as well as the inflation hedge so yeah it's undervalued it continues to be under value below 1000. it's absolutely undervalued you know excellent mark uh any concluding thoughts as we wrap up yeah just prepare i do think we're going to come through this i'm an optimist by nature but we're going to have a massive depression the notion that we're having an economic recovery right now is just absolutely nonsense we may see a little bounce here but it's not going to be a v-shape recovery whatever little recovery we're seeing right now is it's not sustainable and it won't continue so people need to prepare they need to diversify own personnel in the safest way possible uh enough to do that they'll come through that the coming economic crisis better than most perfect mark thanks for your time today thank you tom take care this podcast is for general informational purposes only nothing on this podcast should be taken as investment advice guests on this show are not compensated for their appearance listeners are urged to educate themselves and make their own decisions do not base any investment decisions on the information contained to view our full disclaimer please visit our website i think you understand the junior mining sector and you think that the participants in the mining sector junior mining sector are good people and kind people hit the bid how violent that term could be it actually could be quite violent uh it could be a rip your face off uh uranium rally and the world is always going to need raw materials it's going to be copper and gold and nickel and totally destabilized hey hey troll did you hear what's going on