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digital signatures achieving new levels of efficiency and collaboration hosted by catalyst and presented by a RX this is nancy Johnson I'm editor catalyst and I'll be moderating today's events so before we get started with the presentation at a few housekeeping items I want to let all attendees know we'll have a time for a Q&A following the presentation today so please hold your questions until the end although you can enter them at any point during the presentation using the question pane at the right of your screen during the presentation all attendees will be on mute before the presentation kicks off would like to do a couple quick polls to see where you all stand on the subject of digital signatures so if you wouldn't mind giving your feedback real quickly the first poll will come up here shortly first question is yes or no do you currently use digital signatures in your aec workflow just give that a few seconds for people to and put their feedback great all right thank you for that it looks like about three quarters of attendees are not using digital signatures technology yet so that's great we'll have lots of good information for you today a second poll second question just take a second for it to come up here so how many documents in a given week do you sign this is either a combination of the old fashioned manual signature digital signature you know any type of signing that you do throughout the week how many how many times do you have to put your signature on the dotted line less than five 5 to 15 or more than 15 signatures a week interesting okay just give you all a second to look at that and we'll move on we can close that poll so with that I would like to introduce our main presenter today John Mark keone is general manager and vice president of business development at a RX a RX is a company that has more than 20 years of experience in developing and implementing digital signature technology and they are the developers of the cosine solution so John's going to give us some great insight into digital signature technology in general and the capabilities of the cosine tool today so with that I will hand this off to John good morning John and take it away good morning Nancy and thanks so much and thanks everyone for dedicating some time to learn about digital signatures today I'm going to go through why digital signatures are useful in a business in general and also talk a little bit about the positive impact they have specifically on aec businesses we'll talk a little bit about us and professional engineering board regulations I'll show you some live demos for context so you can kind of get the feel for how this technology works as an end user and then I'll explain how the underlying mechanism works some people find it interesting the to get that primer on the technology so you kind of know what goes on in the background and you'll have a better appreciation for for what this technology can do for you and we'll also then review what it looks like for end-users and also those that examine records or documents those that are involved with audit or regulatory compliance and finally we'll talk about how to deploy digital signatures across the enterprise given a generic deployment example okay and then i'll be happy to address any of your question okay so with that let's launch into the to the webinar so today they're there are two categories of signing technology or signature technology one is referred to as an electronic signature which a hundred percent of the time refers to a proprietary technique this is a way of doing electronic signatures that are specific to one vendor these are typically unvetted techniques meaning it had no peer review and certainly there's no consistency among the vendors that market or sell these types solutions so essentially proprietary and non-standard when we talk about digital signatures and this is the focus of today's presentation we're talking about these standards for electronic signing this is a standard that follows NIST and international standards and in contrast to the electronic signature there is consistency among vendors that support a digital signature standard meaning there's interoperability you can sign with one vendor solution and verify that signature with another for example and there are also other benefits to the standard approach which will we'll cover in this presentation it's about so for context we're talking about standard digital signatures here so why are digital signatures important or you know why even use them well you know basically an obvious answer you want to automate signature dependent processes in your enterprise or within your business and a signature dependent process can be any process where you need to express ownership of information or the source of the information or custody or in a transaction you're accepting acceptance of terms and conditions or approval because you have some authority to sign or you're signing because you agree so there there are many reasons use digital signatures many many reasons and so there's a good potential for efficiency improvement when when you do start digitally digital signatures also provide integrity and verification within an electronic process meaning if that processes inside your organization or outside or wherever that sign record goes or that signed document the digital signature provides integrity characteristics and also a way to verify who signed it and and that it hasn't been changed and this is also true in the long term record archive you'll be able to pull assigned record out of your archive and and check it for integrity and verification of designer these properties also lend themselves to a better support for your meeting your audit regulatory and governance requirements if you have integrity and verification properties along your your automated process you're going to find it easier to come into compliance with good business practices and and have an audit efficiency across your organization so some of the some of the business reasons why you might want to look at signing digitally another basic one is that we've all heard this and we've all seen the data paper is simply too expensive the point is if you're automating your process for a workflow or for collaboration for document management records management you also want to pay attention to automating that signature component the point is one once you've automated and you need the signature you don't want to hit the print button and produce that piece of paper again just to get the signature in other words you don't want to recant am innate another wise automated process with a piece of paper okay and I won't read these statistics here I think I think we're all familiar with costs of paper and the benefits of eliminating paper but you know you'll all get a access to this PowerPoint and will have access to these data points presented here aim did a survey over I think 389 organizations about 18 months ago and what they found is that in fifty-six percent of the organizations more than half of the documents printed are printed for no other reason than to obtain a signature it's a very significant statistic if you what it says is if you started signing digitally today you know you could be eliminating up to half of your printed documents instant link so that's a heck of a good motivator terms of cost elimination or cost expense savings that you could that you could quit quickly realize if you got to got rid of your ear ain't pens and started signing digitally the survey also asked about interruption and time savings interruptions business processes and you know the biggest benefits of those using digital signatures found that accelerating the approval process the acceptance process the agreement process is also a one of the more significant benefits in other words you don't have to slow down to print the document take it to the person who has the pen get it signed put it in an overnight envelope or or rescan it so a lot of savings if you can stay electronic or digital when you sign and then finally they looked across industries across vertical industries to see which industries were more or the most signature intensive and interestingly they found that engineering and construction is among the highest in and getting signatures are very signature intensive processes in the aec market so aec or engineering construction came out at the top of industries that are signing most often and and so this industry this vertical in particular has all the best outlook for realizing the benefits and the savings of digital signatures okay and we see this across our customers in the space they are they continually give us feedback about the positive impact digital signing hands on a cc these are positive impact or collaboration and quality in an automated process accelerating their customer service and of course cost savings and sustainability here's a few examples blacking beach for example has looked toward digital signatures for for enabling remote engineers design drawings and keep the workflow going so the point here is they can access those engineering resources that happen to be remote and traveling team members sign instantly wherever they are in each engineer signs and seals azone drawing or report leaving a clear audit trail and the chain of custody of that material and the result of course is automation with enhanced integrity you get that efficiency and this also results of course and better tighter collaboration ok more efficient faster customer service this is another customer Hague engineering that has taken advantage of digital signatures to cut printing and routing costs and also to accelerate customer turn around and this is resulted in fewer late projects and a greater agility to address clients change orders in real-time so in the past they claim it it took several weeks to turn document around with wet signatures today with digital signatures their engineers a digitally sign from remote offices and the turnaround is a day or less so quite a bit of calendar time savings or timeline savings there and finally cost savings and sustainability another positive impact again papers too expensive paper in addition to the fixed cost of printing and scanning routing archiving replacing loss documents when you get rid of paper you also save staff time and brought intertek since they've implemented is saving from two to three thousand hours of labor a year alone not to mention they've significantly reduced their paper they lower their costs and they have a better environmental sustainability profile around their business by eliminating that paper okay switching to us regulations you know digital signatures are legally enforceable in all US states and territories as well as in Europe Canada and so on the the regulations federally and at the state level simply say that if the law requires a signature a digital signature satisfies the law so you're signing digitally those signatures under the law have legal force and effect very pretty simple you can read about the details and if there's there's a couple statutes one is the e sign Act which is a federal level statute and the other is uyeda which is the uniform electronic transaction that both cover the effectiveness of digital signing okay p boards have their of course their own view on things several PE boards allow for electronic content some still do not some still want paper content the majority of pd boards at least 40 encourage the use of electronic content and digital signatures on that content with several recognizing digital signatures as the most reliable and secure for legally enforceable electronic records or signatures okay p boards of course though will not endorse a specific solution but nor will they criticize a specific technology approach they will tend to appear technology neutral they do however recognize the economy that one can get from not having to print to sign and also the economy's one gets from commercial off-the-shelf solutions that are also based on proven standards ok I'm going to switch over now and show you a couple of live demos for context I'll start with a simple word demo here I have a word document that is in a very simple workflow somebody's asking for vacation request I open the document i look at the information here i can change it if it looks ok i want it i can ensign it I I can choose that at the time I sign the appearance of my graphic signature and a number of choices loaded I'll just pick one here with a blue link click sign and the system will issue to me an identity challenge my username and password and if I answer that identity challenge correctly I my unique digital signature credentials are applied in making the signature and I have signed this document I can also pass it to somebody else in the workflow the collaborative work flow in this case my boss will need to approve my vacation request and he'll say ok have a nice trip so he'll add comment and then he'll right mouse click and he'll sign he'll add things like maybe a reason code which can also be defined at the organization level pull down that people can choose from of reasons why you're signing and then I just make this one a little different I'll sign with black ink and then answer the identity challenge in now I digitally signed this document second time now digital signatures also carry with them a way to inspect with what's behind that signature so if I right mouse click in this case within Microsoft Office I say show me the details microsoft office will tell me the signatures okay well tell me when I signed it and it'll tell me who signed it by proof of identification or identity certificate who issued that that identity all of this information is embedded in the word document it will travel with this document for the rest of its life also if somebody tampers with this document after it was signed I'll change 18 to 19 these signatures now become invalid this is the integrity component of a digital signature digital signature ensures that no tampering with signed information will ever go undetected very important in an automated or an electronic process to have this integrity check this way people in the collaborative network in the collaborative process will know what what they can trust and what they should not trust because of tampering okay and because these signatures also carry the identity of each signer and you can again see that by the certificate it just means is that those people signing the document cannot later deny it's their signature okay so integrity check to protect you from from somebody tampering with what you sign but also proof of identity which indicates to everybody that you are the one who indeed sign this document so that's a quick demo in Word let me show you a quick demo in PDF so I'll simply right mouse click on the PDF I'll say sign with cosine I'll get a preview of the PDF and what I'll do is right mouse click and click Sign again I'll get a preview of my signature block in this case I want to pick my professional my PE feel for state of New York and again I answer the identity challenge and now I've digitally signed this document and applied my professional feel to it in one step okay so i can save this PDF and i can send it to anybody i wish and then all they need to do is open the PDF with the free adobe reader and you'll see the adobe reader has already verified my digital signature it's giving me a green check mark up here says the document is signed and all signatures are valid and just like in Microsoft Word if I want to see the details of this signature adobe reader will show me and just right mouse click and I say show me the signature properties and once again I'll see proof of the signers identity okay and here's the certificate just like you saw displayed by microsoft office Dobby reader understands the digital signature standard and allow this inspection it'll give you proof of intention if I would have filled in a reason code there would have been a reason here saying i approve this drawing for example so give me proof of date and time and proof that the document has not been modified since the signature was applied so those are a couple of quick demo I can show you even one more with like a CAD like drawing in all right mouse click and say sign with cosine I'll get a preview of this I'll go to the page where I want to place my signature I can do this reform I just click the sign icon in the null draw a box where I want my signature placed answer the the identity challenge and I've digitally signed this document but let's let's do something a little different here I'll show you a couple more features let me remove this I can I can designate what I want to appear in my signature block like reason codes date time and title and then i can find this again have a little more information in there and now you'll see other identifying information in my visible signature block again I save it I can send this to whoever who has a free Adobe Reader and once again that person receiving the document will see that adobe reader by the green check mark has verified the signature they can also right mouse click on it and again see more details about the signature properties proof of identity proof of intention by reason code and notice that the signature allows all the original properties of the PDF to be retained and nothing in this case you have a 3-d drawing and the PDF all of this is still intact but now you have this nice integrity check in the form of a digital signature with also proof of signers intention and proof of signers identity okay so few demos for context let me go back to the presentation and let's now go through the primer for digital signatures I'm going to explain how the mechanism works first thing to notice though is that the digital signature standard is most commonly designated as NIST as an asst standard as phipps 186 this is also the same standard that's referenced in iso ccitt ietf wc3 and so on and it is the standard for signing that replaces slow and efficient paper-based signatures on electronic documents drawings designed your records that's that's its purpose and this is how it works and just keep in mind that everything I'm about to explain happens in the background in a matter of a couple of seconds it's exactly what happened in demos that that I just showed you so the way it works is the user will open the document they'll fill in some information and click a sign button first thing that happens is the document is passed through a hash algorithm this is another missed standard called the secure hash algorithm and what this does is it generates the integrity check for the document what it is is a unique digital fingerprint or unique digital DNA of the document no two documents will ever have the same hash value okay so hypersensitive to change detection meaning if I take a document and I hash it I'll get a hash value a unique series of ones and zeros if I take the same document and change just one character say from a lowercase a to an uppercase a and hash it again several bits and the resulting hash are going to flip and value something's changed its not the same document so that's that's the integrity check component of a digital signature that's a hash value or think of it as the digital DNA of the document the next part of the process involves each signers signature credentials signature credentials are made up of a key pair and an identity certificate one part of that key pair is a large 1024 bit integer we call it a private key no two signers will ever have the same private key you can think of the private key as the digital DNA of designer for example and the way the signature is made is the private key is as used to calculate an encryption operation over the hash so think of it as encrypting the hash of the document with the private key of designer and the result is the basic digital signature which had a contribution from the document the documents hash or digital DNA then have a contribution from the finer which is their private key or the for the signers digital DNA this results in a child or the signature you could view as a child that has two parents one being this document the other parent beam the signer ok so in this way a digital signature is a child of two parents and these two parents can't deny the child ok so there's no way to have a deadbeat dad in this system ok you you have once want to sign with your private key there's no denying it's your signature once the signature is applied to this document there's no denying this is the document that was signed so that's the fundamental part of the signature what we do is we take that encrypted hash along with the identity certificate of the signer we embedded into a signature block and at signature block which binds together the document in the signer is embedded in the document and any tampering with the document in the future will invalidate the signature this is what happens in a matter of one second or two seconds in the background during those demos I showed you the user will never feel any of this process and this is the standard that's being used globally around the world this is the standard that supported natively and a number of applications including Microsoft Office Adobe autodesk autocad bentley microstation IBM forms and many others okay so the result of signing this way is digitally signed electronic records that are legally enforceable and fully trusted and reliable reliably verifiable okay so a digital signature so what this is technology that's well known its peer reviewed embedded this is important because the algorithms behind this our public and also because proprietary techniques are no longer acceptable and that's because almost all it's not all proprietary techniques are baller both of forgery digital signatures are immune to forgery and have been proven so it also means that your signatures can be verifiable anytime anywhere which means when you sign a document and send it outside your organization that signature will have legal force and effect wherever that time document goes whoever receives it will be able to inspect it and verify the signature and what this means is this type of signature prevents what we call vendor lock or vendor gridlock meaning if you start signing with standard digital signatures today you don't need to wait for everybody you work with to buy the same solution to verify your signature they'll be able to do that with a free Adobe Reader with microsoft office with Autodesk AutoCAD with Bentley and so on okay and this is technology that is endorsed by federal governments both in the US and Europe fact this is the US standard for digital signing its endorsed by a number of standards and regulatory bodies as well as a fortune 500 digital signatures allow easy verification fundamental properties proof of signers identity proof of signers intention proof of the date and time of course and also proof of document integrity as these are the fundamental properties that the digital signature carries and with those properties within an automated process or a collaborative network you now have verification that allows trust meaning trust with your internal employees trust with external partners sternal suppliers external clients external regulators all have the ability to inspect and verify these signatures and and it's it's the trust component that really allows automation to scale if you don't have a trust it's going to be harder you to scale up your electronic process so it's this trust and integrity component that actually unlocks the efficiency of an automated process the basic value is you get reliable proof of integrity green check mark says it's ok red X says it's not you get a known origin of information remember you get the digital DNA of the document the digital DNA of the signer this eliminates deniability and also helps you clear up misunderstandings very quickly right and also because it's a standard it's broadly usable many applications are supported and also because it's a standard you'll be able to pull signed records out of your archives many many years from now and verify those signatures because the technique for verification and for signing is an open technique and just just to reinforce this this is what it looks like for end users you get a visible signature block you get verification within the native application of the signature you can drill down as an examiner and see the signature is valid and you can drill down even further and see proof of the signers identity their intention document integrity all of this information is carried with the signed document and travels with a document for the remainder of its life cycle which means when you sign a document with a digital signature you're actually transforming that document into a legally binding record that is self-contained and wherever it travels anybody that needs to inspect the record and verify it can do so ok so very very efficient these properties in this inspection technique this evidence really lends itself well to improving audit efficiency and reducing the burdens of regulatory compliance if you have these properties embedded in the record you're going to find your business moves faster with greater integrity okay now we're going to talk a little bit about a deployment example and I'm going to use the ARX product as an example for for deployment within an enterprise or within an automated process cosine is delivered as a turnkey solution it typically installs in less than two hours and it's a it's a turnkey and complete digital signature solution that build them the key management and the IV certificate management and also management of graphics signature images or professional fields all of this is managed and maintained in one network attached appliance the way this is deployed is you deploy it under your existing user management policy and user management system okay and this could be any active directory LDAP or if you don't have a user directory cosine has its own directory but the point is you have a pre-existing policy for how you enroll users in your organization that your administrator follows and he manages this typically through a user directory when you install cosine you're going to point it at your user management system and when a user is added in this directory cosine is listening and will immediately generate the signature credentials the key pair and the certificate for that user likewise when a user loses signing privilege the administrator will remove them from the directory cosine is still listening will delete the private key for the signer and revoke their identity certificate in this way cosine is dropped into your business process without having to change your policy procedure or system for user management or user authentication so you can really spin up a digital signature capability very fast with this approach well maintaining full control over it your administrator gets to decide according to your corporate policy who has signing privilege when to activate it and also when to revoke it on its revoked instantly the other nice thing about this architecture is that it can serve not only desktop apps but it can serve web applications and mobile apps because the credentials and the signature operations are executed inside the appliance you don't have to have software installed out here on these devices to do handle the the signature credential or handle the signing calculation basically you open your documents out here the user answer is the identity challenge username password for example if they answer it correctly the document is signed signature results are added back to the document and and you keep your your process moving okay so this is an example of one way of deploying digital signatures that's turnkey that is not disruptive and most importantly keeps you in control over who has signing privilege it also protects very well your signature credentials your cheap air in your certificate but it also allows the users to protect and control the application of their digital or digitize feels and digital or I'm sorry graphic signature images all managed from from within the central appliance okay so what is required for trusted collaboration in review well maintaining the evidence or proof of signer identity signer intent record integrity basic properties of a digital signature but also maintaining control over when to establish or revoke signature privileges okay so very important that the organization according to their own governance policies gets to maintain control over who has the privilege to sign and when proper support for signature automation well this means that the signature must have a strong binding to the signed information which it does if you remember the digital DNA of the document the document hash combined with the digital DNA of the signer the private key creates a very strong binding to the signed information there's a way to reliably identify the signer which is the signers identity certificate embedded in the document and that the signature can be verified by anyone at any time which of course is another default property of a digital signature tampers tampering with sign information should be easily and reliably detectable and and as you saw the demos it is if it's if it's not been tampered with you get a nice green check mark if it has been tampered with you get the red X and then signature privileges of course our best managed centrally by your current pre establishing governing policy and procedures it's not a good idea to deploy a signature solution that says you have to unravel your current governing policy and procedures that's going to be very expensive if you can reuse your current policies procedures and systems that manage users that manage your authentication scheme this is the most effective way to deploy a signature capability there are a number of live demos and under different applications on our website I put this link in the presentation if you want to check any of those out and that tree much concludes the the PowerPoint part of this webinar I'll be happy to field questions as we go and Nancy I'll turn it back to you for that all right John thank you so much for that presentation the good news is we have tons of questions coming in so bad news is we have 15 minutes left so hopefully we can get through a lot of these and just keep those questions coming in as we go through the QA and I will do our best gets everything and those that we don't we have your contact information and we'll do our best to follow up with you directly later in this week okay so John several people are asking about compatible file formats and you mentioned several different companies and platform but specifically we're being asked as far as MS Office suite autodesk with files and the adobe reader files what kind of compatibility is there across the different versions of those software solutions I know it's very common for cad departments to be dealing with multiple versions of the same software so what's the story there okay so if we're talking a PDF are the adobe environment it's any PDF or PDF a document you'll be able to sign consistently and you'll be able to verify those signatures with any version of adobe reader from version 6 up to the present which is version 10 so that's adobe with microsoft you know if you're interested in playing office documents word or excel if you use cosine you'll have backward compatibility from everything from office 2003 all the way to office 2010 but cosine is the only solution to give you that backward compatibility across different versions of office and then for things like autodesk autocad and bentley microstation the standard has been supported i think back at least two versions and both of those products and that their current shipping version escapes me but at least you can go back I think two versions on both of those CAD packages and you'll have consistent signature capability across those okay great thanks John what about got several people asking what happens when you've got a drawing set or a document that has multiple pages in it do you have to sign each of those drawings or pages individually you can with cosine you can set it up where it will automatically apply your signature or initial to every page in one step so if I'm understanding the question I think it's a a question about capability of a solution and that one thing you can do with cosine is you can set up and sign at heavier initials or signature appear on every page with one click or you can you can choose one at a time which pages you want your signature on and deciding what you have to sign and where is really a local matter it's up to you know the nature of the drawing or or the document and the process that you're in but you can do it one at a time or you can do it with one click you would just have to choose what location of the page like in the lower right-hand corner or somewhere in the margin you pick that up front and then with one click it will always appear in that XY location on each page okay got it so you have the option then that works for your your workflow how about applying your trusted signature from another computer like if you're traveling or you know working in another office is that a capability today although yeah oh so the cosine the only requirement is that you have access to your network so you can be remote traveling and this is actually a feature that's been built into our product from the beginning we refer to it sometimes there's approve on the move you can be on a business trip really anywhere long as you can get on a network and or access your network and access the document you'll be able to to answer the identity challenge and sign that document okay so maybe that answers this other question too about if you're in a work group that's decentralized you don't have a central server can this process still apply can the can the cosine technology still apply across a decentralized workgroup yeah absolutely you can have your documents stored locally on your pc and again you can consign them from there so your work does not have to be centralized and your workgroup does not have to be centralized all you need is network access sit okay great a few people asking about approximately could I guess could you describe the the implementation process to probably a lot of cad managers and maybe even aichi people in the audience how long are we looking at in terms of the time it takes to great cosine in a you know in a workgroup or workflow and trained staff to get up and running yeah it's less than a day and really to get it installed it typically less than two hours from the time you take it out of the box to the time when end users can start signing you know typically about two hours now the way this works is we will send you a questionnaire which is two two and a half pages of multiple choice questions that you go through and you tick off a description of your environment what applications you use you know what directory you use with the IP address of your directory then when you're ready to install one of our technicians will be on the phone with one of your technicians and we'll go through that list together say okay take take take the solution out of the box plug it in type in the IP address at this time and typically that that's it now administrative training roughly takes about an hour and basically we use the installation process as the bulk of the admin training as you're going through that installation with us you're you're learning how to administer the system for end-users it's just as easy as i showed in those demos you click on a button says sign you answer the identity challenge and you've signed the document so the learning curve for end-users is really well if you're used to working with things like adobe your or microsoft office or you know your native application it's a low learning curve for end-users great um what about cost we have a few people asking what are you what are they looking at in in terms of cost and what is the licensing arrangement can you do Network licensing for multiple users yeah so there's their fixed cost for appliance and there's a fixed cost for a user and its Enterprise licensing meaning if you have a hundred users you'll pay for a hundred licenses if ten people if you hand those hundred out and ten people quit your organization you hire ten new people you reuse those licenses you don't owe us a dime further but it's unlimited signatures across unlimited applications for these six costs so the idea here is the more you use cosine under this model the more money you save over time in other words it's not an ongoing tax this is a solution that you buy you operate you control it you you essentially own it and I'd not I'd like to not get into naming comp throwing out specific numbers if somebody has an interest we would really appreciate them contacting us one of my guys can go through their situation and come up with a proposal that fits okay okay got it that makes sense so if you see the the contact email there it's simple sales at a RX com you can get in touch with the company directly and talk about pricing specifics if you're interested we continue to get several questions about specific file compatibility since everybody's you know on different software different versions all mentioned that the cosine websites ARX website which is fantastic it's really easy to navigate lots of great resources there if you go to the section about digital signatures and click on features in technology there's a tab there you can scroll down and see links to a specific list of compatible file formats and so forth and we catalyst will have a landing page you can check back on within a day or so of this webcast by the middle of this week where we'll have some of these links in addition to other resources that are related to today's presentation and don't hesitate to contact the company directly to get specific questions and you can't find answers on the website so let's see we've got about five minutes left so lots of people hanging on so we really appreciate your attendance and your attention today I this is a really interesting topic so um what about combining files John so maybe you've got one document or more within one that you bought it's already been signed and you need to combine that somehow with something new what happens in that scenario okay so a digital the digital signature technique is canonical meaning whatever you've signed you have to have precisely that object available for verification otherwise it'll be viewed as a change or a tamper so if you've signed a document you do have the ability to clear the signature you can clear it combine that document with a new document and I'm re-sign if you wish or yeah that that would probably be the most efficient way to do it now within cosine you also have a feature that is referred to as signature clearing rules and you can set that to say that only the signer can clear their own signature no one can clear that signature or any anybody can clear a signature so you have to decide according to your process what what you're going to allow in terms of rules but if you did need to the scenario just described there are ways to clear the signature append new pages or combine it with another document and then recent oh did we lose you John are you there I'm here can you hear me okay sorry cut out this for a second so if you can just keep that last sentence yeah they're all I'm saying is there there are features and capabilities that allow you to clear a signature combine it with more information or another document and in resign okay great so it's going to adapt to changes in the process in other words the the cosine solution isn't going to dictate how your process can proceed you are able to just as changes are made or you have to go back and redo parts of the workflow write this and you know the other thing I should add is our solution has been in the market since 2003 it had a lot of exposure to different scenarios and so it's built up a rich set of features and today we have over five million users on on this product that's impressive okay so we just have a ton of questions here I'm sorry we'll be able to get to everything but we'll do our best to follow up afterward let's see if there's one more John feel free to chime in if you see anything in particular that you know is a common question here what about we had a question about PE signatures um someone asks specifically I noticed that you showed that a date range with the signature for when that signature is valid how can this be applied to a PE signature or seal that needs to be permanent is that a question you can answer John I'm not sure I understand the question but I'll make one correction for their observation it's not a date range for validity of signature that they saw it is a date range for validity of identity just like when you get a driver's license there's an expiration date to the driver's license it's the same thing for your identity certificate there is a valid life to the certificate that's what the date ranges for but not that doesn't refer to the signature it refers to the electronic identity now the second part of the question I have to say I don't understand hey well yeah specifically related to the PECO so we could try to but we don't here's the pair's the point i think on that we don't issue PE feels those are issued by PE boards so the question and that question should be actually referred to their local issuing board okay okay so perhaps you're not you're not really signing with your seal this is kind of separate from that well no you you are you can apply your feel to the document and then you digitally sign over everything right oh no it's on the demos I had a professional feel there i applied to the document which that seal gets bound into the document along with the digital signature and the identity certificate so it's all all together and there's a tight-binding then created between the document designer and the seal and the identity of the signer got it okay thank you for clarifying that okay one last quick question before we wrap up because I wonder if whether people are wondering this someone else's the coastline logo shown with every signature or was that just for your demonstration purposes that's just for demo and we'll show you how to turn that off yeah okay great all right well its top of the hour here so I have to wrap up John thank you for that great presentation and all the all the great follow up with the QA we will as i mentioned have a landing page on catalyst calm within 24 hours or so of concluding this event today go to catalyst calm / digital signatures no hyphen all one word and we'll have a recording of today's presentation a copy of the PowerPoint if you'd like to share that with other decision-makers in your group will have some links for you there that will help address some of the other questions that came up today and so forth you can send questions or feedback about the presentation today to customer service at longitude Mediacom that's us and don't hesitate to check out the ARX website or contact them directly at sales of a RX com if you have questions about the technology pricing etc so thank you everyone who's still on the line we appreciate your interest today and your participation and we hope you'll be back here again for future web presentation from catalyst have a great day