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Integrate mark negotiation

[Music] coming up on the mark divine show my opening offer and my counteroffer often is empathy the other side is just dying to talk i mean everybody is just dying to have their say even in a job offer when one side's trying to get you to go first we don't give the number first we just don't salary is a price term in a negotiation if it's a horrible job if it makes you feel at home it doesn't matter what they pay it's blood money [Music] welcome to the mark divine show this is your host mark devine in this show i interview world leading experts from a variety of different fields i often do solo casts and i'm doing something a little different today something called a feed drop where i have one of my previous guests all-star ashley stahl who's a former counter-terrorism professional turned career coach who has her own podcast we had an incredible conversation and we decided that you would get tremendous benefit out of listening to one of her interviews with an individual that i interviewed a couple years ago named chris voss who's the lead international kidnapping investigator for the fbi author of never split the difference ceo black swan group and this is a master class on negotiation ashley because her background is really able to work with chris to discuss what it takes to be an incredible negotiator in your everyday life you're going to love this conversation i'm super stoked to bring it to you we'll be doing more of this in the future so here's ashley and krish hey everybody it's ash here and i have christopher voss he is the author of never split the difference the lead international kidnapping negotiator for the fbi and he's also the ceo of the black swan group and he is obviously such an incredible negotiator that i couldn't help but bring him on to talk to us but before we get into all of that chris welcome to the show thank you for being here thank you actually my pleasures should be fun i worked in counterterrorism in my early 20s and i was absolutely fascinated and i ended up working in political risk where there was a fair deal of hostage negotiation but i never did the negotiating i was always watching people down the hall like you wondering what magic dust you have that you're sprinkling in ten situations so i'm curious what drew you into hostage negotiation in the first place like what was it about for you well really for me at the time it was just still being involved in crisis response i i'd been a cop before i was an fbi agent and of course you know the cops are the first ones on the scene that are first response guys and i liked responding to crises and i was on a swat team then when i was with the fbi and...