Mediate Countersign with airSlate SignNow

Mediate countersign

so you know you're a developer meetup when you start with the presentation all you've got on the screen or turbo of Texas a lot better than slide alright so how many of you have actually committed go to a bit of my wallet Wow nobody fantastic what cool which one okay okay bitcoin j is fantastic Mike's actually an advisor for coming yeah so the fort electrum just to be able to give people a good referenceable tation they can act within the community build applications so it works the same way that electric normally works which is written in Python it's one of those wallets where it's split between the client and the server the server all it does is one's a Bitcoin node and then the client does on the key management and so it's I it's really you know somewhat usable for desktop use and it runs on the server just fine there are people who are running electrum that they're hot wallet for wallet could do you know a thousand transactions a day 2005 action today which in think tank is not a lot but in bitcoin is a huge amount the coin only has maybe thirty forty thousand transactions they told i think caps out we're never seen today with more than 69,000 what we did two electrons as we somewhat improved their bit 32 support to do harvester mystic wallets and we also took their multi6 support and we tied it through to their bit 32 support so you can do entire accounts which are relationships between three extended public eats so HTML its work is you start with a core secret that are you put in me monix it looks like this and you'd arrived mmm you know i probably can't right stream that still small you'll smile it's better yeah there okay so this is the mnemonic for the seed all of the Bitcoin addresses in your derived mathematically from that you can create sub accounts and what we did was we took the sub-account infrastructure and we applied a multi6 scheme to the entire sub account or you just link 3 sot accounts three different wallets and you step down address of a one address number to address number three and lock step so i'm going to do this as if this is running on a server like coinbase style where you used to just be holding everybody's bitcoin and providing a user interface through the web and i was all cooled we're going to show how you can use HTM wallets to segregate those out and user funds and to integrate with the third party to keep you from walking away with it intentionally or accidentally this is I call this don't get gas here in the process so what i'm doing here is this master level wallet for the local wallets already been created it's got a seat it's got a master public key and it's got its first account well we created many addresses as you need to i think it out go to temper yeah I'm good at 10,000 derivative so generally the best practice is every time an address receive some Bitcoin York I think you want so this makes your making parallel trees usually start with your starting the energy sector yeah so I'm doing it I mean I'm doing that refuse I'm doing here's a master wallet and I'm going to do one branch from the master wallet per user and then that will further branch into as many addresses thing streams and the best of all it was based on that yeah and so that mnemonic secret is the core secret for your signing server but that's the higher cosmic tree that's right sorry saying you're making this because you're distant like a multi-stage thing to do three separate so I'll show you for the first account hey tree yes what's your phone over six or six seven months in 646 179 479 so it's asking here to provide a third key so the local key there's the kids going to get from our server and then it asks it takes as a parameter third key so we're just going to take this one that I created here um if you're using this service if using the software to use our service to do to do custody of somebody else's coined in the pacu web app then we actually suggest for the third key what you do is you stash it with an attorney so it will create two or three wallets but because you've got one key we've got one team we both of operational integration it'll be in effect two of two the reason you're stashing is the key with an attorney is so that someone responsible will have it if one of us core business yeah like if your CTL gets it x plus and this is all you can do this all via the command line to decision you all so fast so drinks phone should ring any second because the service tried to spend his money and didn't have permission to spend that much so our services law instead of checking back with your app our service says no we gotta talk two three push we think you're trying to tap steals money we're done not going to work so what do you do in this situation um if if this is happening too often maybe our appt brook or maybe we're offline or whatever right if the if all your stuffs not getting authorized or things or big payments that you need to do aren't being authorized that's when you go to our friendly attorney that's stored that that's toward the third key and you throw your copy of the wallet into recovery mode and you can actually create partially signed transactions as a file and we're working with bit pen to standardize the mechanic the data set that they use for partial side transactions with comen with what we're building into all of our wallet partners so ideally every multi cig wallet at some point relatively soon should be able to sign any wallet any transaction to party too regardless of what wallet generated the transaction we're not there yet we hope to be there in a few months so we're just going to this and then you take the seed for the other wallet the store concede so you'll notice this wallet knows nothing about the transactions because you just restored it from seed it doesn't have any of the multi sick relationships it's only got the local law but if you load the transaction partially sign one and click Sign it actually figures out how to sign it and then it learns the details the transaction it still doesn't know the inputs but it knows that it could accurately something and then you can broadcast in the blockchain and I have my money so what we've created is a signing service that can participate partially signed transactions that can be slaved to users through out-of-band things like email phone calls Google OTP text messages so that when you use us we don't authorize transactions because we believe they're good for you we got my race transactions because we believe they're good for the users this can be incredibly important if you're afraid of holding other people's money which if you work in Bitcoin you should be afraid of holding other people's money it's just that simple bitcoin is money enough that if you lose it for someone else and they sue you on not only will you have to give them back but if you can't you may go to jail Wow yeah the others may have to reinstall if you control the IRS yeah there's all sorts of stuff there are consumer protection laws related to all the things of monetary value for other people their money transmission laws in every state related to holding money for other people there are on tax implications especially around recording if you have you provide financial services other people and they make income and you know that then you may be obligate call the IRS speak to your friendly attorney if you don't have one you should call tax hansa network it's gooey but holding other people's wanting to be very dangerous using a service like this allows you to create an account where you participate in a scheme that holds people's money but you're not unilaterally holy we're holding it together in the context of a contract the user probably entered into where we each have our defined roles and each of us are responsible for stopping the other should they step out of the define rules moves big point doing big one with multi-party multi sick moves it out of banking law which is primarily criminal in nature back in the contract law which primarily civil in nature where arguably it belongs also when you do this multi-party multi stake when we get back to that other wall of use point dev top it's easy to segregate the funds for user so you don't have to rely on so you don't have to rely on your database to keep back your balances you don't have to test the balances the blockchain is tracking it for you and will attest to wick each account based on the information you gave us for Cal configuration so you use the system like this nobody can ever claim you miss accountant for their money whereas if you want to claim that about point base it's going to be a lot of or about pittston more about training because in all of those cases the bitcoins kept pulled the accounts are kept in a database and the user claims that a particular Bitcoin transaction and the blockchain was a deposit for your service and you disagree with them it's going to be he said she set off a loss to walk whereas you configure accounts like this all of the accounts all the addresses in the account will be derivative user claims that was a dress outside of it we say impossible we can show you the source code of applications written and it's all tracks segregated each fun each one separate also because you can manually countersign the partially signed transactions with the third key or any arbitrary em event if there are other keys then it's very very simple if we're down to still recover your systems to recovery user wants you only rely on us for uptime so long as you continue to want to use us if you want to get out it's not that much and you can you can countersign a sweep transaction that takes as an input all of these transactions or if that's too big of a transaction you understand a series of them but its transactions can come out of the wallet from any account anyway so electrum HTM it's a fork of electrum that I does multi sig well that does bit 32 well can be manipulated from of you from a user interface or from the command line and it is easy to use to build your apps we also want to integrate with all of your walls anybody who builds a wallet put who would rather have it be multi sig and ran out view multi-party we'd love to integrate our service we'd love to pay you if you get a lot of user and even if you don't would like to make sure you handle the same standards so you're well it can be compatible with our wallet can be compatible if it pays wallet etc exception is in this an example of school clubs in certain transactions or you know what seems to posit your second point is really happening watching so there's a lot of there's a lot of discussion right now about auditing exchanges and so I ran in exchange and this was reconciliation on a Bitcoin exchange the biggest pain they asked you're ever innocent because you have to take the actual log files from your hot ball and you've got to reconcile them with your log files from your database which is going to be in completely different format and you've got to make sure that every deposit tracks but they're all it tracks up with a positive database and I'll be withdrawing your hot wallet tracks up with a withdraw in your database and you've got to make sure that all of your other transactions that don't correspond with the wall and withdraw a double entry bookkeeping and zero out that reconciliation process is something that a trade hell it took us months to develop in terms of how to do it well and good tools to do that things like that and I I doubt to the end of it that our bookkeeping firm actually knew arruda I think for the most part they were just looking for that everything totaled 20 at the bottom and then they trusted us up if we had to pay for an actual audit from a big financial house I would have expected that to take months and cost hundreds of thousands dollars but the Bitcoin blockchain is by its very nature must use triple entry count every 10 minutes so every every wallet keeps its own books on the payor and the payee side and the block chain keeps an independent set of books it's a copy of every wall at everywhere neta de with the audit how come to Sedalia batteries target 47 trade without that stopping well in terms of balancing dollar and Bitcoin balances themselves all that really added was more transactions to audit but in terms of calculating cost basis and giving people brokerage style statements which by the way we're the only exchange you ever have done that ever and we may I I'd be surprised if another one doesn't anytime soon but yeah when your neck when you're calculating cost basis is and profits and stuff like that 24-hour trading is a real pain in the ass because you have to you have to determine whether or not so make a trading proper and you have to have an idea of what baseline vehicle physicals worth of any given time things like that point estimates a little bit easier because they polish closing prices but it's all that's also what we can do with this though because the blockchain will provide a third ledger that's a being constantly audited every ten minutes by the mining up is if you settle trades on chain so settling them off trip then you know that they meant to 0 because if they don't either the transactions to get rejected or you're just paying the miners so it makes auditing something that automatically happens in the software basis that's easily verifiable and easily netted 20 at least on the Vic one side doesn't help your buttock how much on the on the dollar sign that's why I trade obese I created about what depends on your transaction block um if you if you're like like a local big points or something and your transaction volume is trip is in terms of you know hundreds or thousands of transactions an hour then that's not actually that bad and you could just spit those out into the network and propagation time is only three or four seconds and that's good enough for trading purposes especially since you're holding people dollar so you can run so you can roll back traits and you and us are the only ones countersign so where is the double send attempt to comfort so in that case you can settle at the blockchain in real time and you know Harris it takes time viendo blocks you announce are the only co-signers for the transactions anyway we can trust each other if on the other hand you're a bit stamp and you're doing hundreds of transactions a minute because people are bought trading against your exchange then you're probably not going to want to settle in real time in that scenario we're perfectly willing to do batch settlement where you provide us with within sight your matching engine and you match up your trades at every eight hours or every 12 hours or every day we look at the batch we met it out against our feet in your transaction matching and if you gave us a batch that actually reflects trading then we'll countersigned the whole thing and we'll post it to the blockchain huge and there you've got every input to the batch as a net seller and then the outputs are changed that buyers our feeding your feet so if you have I'd say the magic number is you have more than maybe 10 transactions a minute you're probably going to learn a batch let's change that you say you have so what do you say so i co-founded a company called trader derick kenna it was the second company called trader we were a exchange for credit investors we I'd say 83 or so active clients or average trade was over two hundred thousand dollars we replace if it pays all of their American Bitcoin we were the place point baseball most of their American Bitcoin we were most of our clients were venture capitalists hedge funds and sometime Valley billionaires on the buy side when sell sided was bitpay two major mining pools and major manufacturers hmm interesting at trade oh and what informed the creation of grip report is at one point we were holding a hundred thousand of other people's points or so valued at about a thousand bucks each so at some point if you would grab like me one other guy put us in a warehouse and hit us with a wrench over and over and over again you could have eventually stolen a hundred million dollars and that's the problem of holding other people's Bitcoin in a nutshell it doesn't matter how trustworthy you are it matters how trustworthy or organization is and I don't care if you raise 50 million dollars you're not going to build Fort Knox Fort Knox costs a lot more than 50 million dollars cold storage is not a reliable way to secure a large amount of it it just isn't so Bitcoin what you're used to in Bitcoin normal de cuenta dress is when they serve with a while the address is created by hashing the public key and putting on one and so when you send money to that address to be able to respond that money what you have to prove to the Bitcoin network is the urine control of the public key that hashes to that address so when you publish the redemption what you're publishing is a description of which inputs you want to select the description of the outputs of where you're sending the money and then you sign that whole thing with a public key and you include the public key along with the transaction and the mining well yeah with the private key with the key pair and you include the property that's part of that key bear what along with the transaction and the minor before they decide to include the transaction the block to take the transaction fee looks at the inputs to make sure they haven't already been spent and then they look at the public key to make sure hashes to the address and then they look at the outputs to make sure they're real Bitcoin tests and if all of that checks out then they put the transaction the walk and the kids keep in mind multi sig addresses are not generated from a simple keeping the technology is called paid a script cash and the way you create the address is you write a script that has to be followed to Reese penned money deposit up dress the most common script is called M event there are this many keys that can sign transactions coming out and you need a corner of this lesser number of keys or lesser or equal to number of teens the sign a transaction so very popular is what we did here which is two or three these three public keys are capable of signing it and an output and you need at least two of them to actually sign to make a valid transaction and that stripped that defines both the ruleset and lists the public keys that participating there also you take that entire script and you make a hash of that and you throw it on three in front and that's how you get a multi signal types so the address itself isn't actually referring to a key pair the address is referring to a script that lists a bunch of keys and so when you respect well you pause money in that address if you want to respond that money what you do is you provide that entire Redemption script the rule set and what public keys are involved in that address and then you provide the inputs that you want to spend and the aquaclear was sent to and then you have to sign it with a quorum of those keys and then that whole package which can be a fairly large file that it lists the public keys enlist the rule set list the input syllabus the outputs list the transaction fee and enlisted signatures from the quorum of those keys so that whole bat is a transaction and the mining Network interprets the script and checks the signatures as part of their verification and the transactions balance living so the koala is essentially creation of those different addresses and then the gas attorney and then kind of collection of all them from the individual parties until it's complete this this process right here when it listed out those addresses what was happening here is this wallet was creating a Redemption script for each address and then action involving an iterative key from the seeds for all three of those key chains so then creating multi sick address from that to the address is inserted a three billion in the blind yeah and that's a hash yeah the dresses that start with three are a hash of the script that describes what you need to do to respect but the wall in itself I guess the killer has to be somebody could compromise the code have all the inputs so this this wallet right here is only managing one of those three cheats it's got one full set of private public keys and then it's got to extended public keys that can be used to derivative we create public keys but not private keys so once things once these addresses have been created compromising funds that have been deposited into them it's not enough to just compromise the swallow because this wallet can only provide one of the wire two signatures but I think are you getting at the point we can generate the generation step is compromised because there's a point where you generate them you have all the information at once that's right which is why which is one of the things that makes us different than most of our competition is we require you to degeneration locally and we also do it locally so for the script cash generation um the addresses you generate happen on your servers we generate the same set of addresses on our servers and if we're not involved in transaction the users not getting communication from us so you can describe in your fact because you're working with us what they should expect to see from us then it compromised an attacker who compromised generation of your system if he hasn't compromised our system the users aren't going to get the UX that are expecting and we're going to find out be fast so I'm trying to figure out it even outside like how implementation if I said hey let's create a multi-state wall together then I think the general theory behind it is I kind of have my secret you have your secret and they have to both be there that's right you ready so if we just say they will create a wallet the secrets never need to be present on the same computer at the same time because you only have to communicate the public to needs to create the world so you're so I'm kind of stuck to the processor you created something back how long sentence and that is just the kind of seed that's received for the private keys that are resident in this wall and then my money goes off and does something secret now the party goes off and does something secret and somehow those come together so my servers already done something secret this did something secret during wallet creation when it created those seats we exchanged the public sides of those secrets but not the private sides and since we both do the generation of the multi sick addresses locally we can compare addresses that we create so I guess I what I was missing was when you were doing this your server without creating its own secret that's right so so there were three secrets involved one secret was already in his text file one secret was created locally on this wallet when we created the wallet and third secret was created on my server the outside of the control of this computer yeah there's no theoretical maximum but the meijer but the guy's a good pay have been trying to do as many am events as they can and they found the mining network processes transactions that are only so large and you had the role redeem script has to be included with transactions including all the public keys so the most they've ever been able to get it to process is five of seven didn't even know where m is five and NSF just because the this because the transaction is getting too big the transaction is getting too big for the money network to relay to be four they put a caption as big as they good to give it given unlimited fees they couldn't get the mind on what to relay transactions are what's wrong with the miners so we we really think about two different use cases use case number one instead of having a hot wall at your own signing service and you use us as a policy authorizer to get you out of holding money right because we don't work for you we work for the users and so we we will stop you from stealing your users money and you can tell the government that you can tell your users that that's one use case the other use case is if the users got a local wallet we can integrate with their local wallet their version of electrum their version of multi the dealership version of blockchain and we can stop someone who's compromised their computer concealing and so in general what we want to do is we want to end the practice of holding other people's money and having cobol it's because it's too mine we want to end the threat of now wearing your local machine its way to steal the Queen and we want to dramatically reduce people obtain the conduct that their uses like like you went to a very into keys or like plaster so generally in Bitcoin losing keys loses access to funds we don't solve that problem but we do make it a little bit better that's right there is no way to solve that problem without holding somebody else yeah we have an API and how it works is you structure the transaction locally in your wallet and when we see if I can go back to the transaction and you provide us with the transaction you structure there it is right there that's the transaction you provide us with the transaction structure with all the inputs and with your signature and at that point will operate and will interpret you know does it break the velocity is it going to known fraudster you don't accept all of the different things we use the risk for it and if it's a low risk score we'll just kind of sign it and propagate it and won't be any slower than propagation normally this and if it's a medium risk tour then we'll call the user first we know the user first we'll ask for no TP from the user some other way to authorize these are outside of your wallet the way that you can circumvent then if it's a harvest transaction will tell you to go yourself your call cops or we're going 50 week and good bargains that are not find her exactly the blue peak your highness criteria you send a message say hey we saw something on this but we didn't control it so the contract with the third party is going to vary over time well it depends on what your use cases when you built the application user wallets the user actually has both keys where they'll have they'll have the wallet key and then they'll have a the determinant succeed for the recovery key and they can manually countersign transactions without us and they're not beholden to us in that case all we're really going to do is we're going to notify them you know hey you manually countersigned a transaction there's nothing we can do to stop it when you do that if you didn't do that it's time to freak that it's time to forget like we can't protect you anymore you didn't do that right if it's a use case where you're doing you're holding somebody else's coins and we're standing between them and you and we call that a mediated wallet in that case the third party is usually going to be a top-five law firm and if they're coordinate even without notifying us then we call the bar and it is and in that case I don't know why you would want or need us because the because the input that we use to judge to put a sign a transaction is a proposed partially central section is it would go through as far as the vexation yeah yeah M can be one that's right so you have a wallet that's shared between multiple parties and everybody has the ability to spend on it but you want to know who's spending such as a joint checking account with your wife or your both of debit cards some toys you guys to somebody who's that good it's kind of like we look at transactions or bonded your money and so there's a suspicious transaction we trying to end up that's right so we do that thing that be sent us where when you try to spend we look at the transaction we either approve it or decline and based on how much it bothers us we made you for which is the same thing at this mess you seem extra do business so what we started with our financial industry best practices which are remember payees remember players enforce velocity limits and introduce the way that's when things early from there we're going to acquire a dataset the old fashioned and this is why we're taking the B to B to C approach well we're not trying to add users one at a time we're trying to add applications but abusers one of the time so if if you've got a Bitcoin wallet it's got more than a hundred thousand years or so i will pay you to use our site specific different applications we expect that there will be different emergent parts for for consumer wallet use cases where it really is between us and the consumer and the wallet vendors to shipping code on in those scenarios we're just gonna have to train the model to understand each consumer and understand each merchant then so we can see what average behavior is for consumer you can see what I was behaviour for merchant and when somebody tries to spend thirty thousand dollars the gas stations with that um when it comes to application specific things for maybe somebody builds Satoshi dice competitor that holds its that holds its fun house fun with us or maybe somebody builds a brokerage thing like coinbase a bit oasis guys are building something like that they presented here a few weeks ago on that might have a different model because they're looking for trade fraud as well as transaction file right on all that stuff we're just going to learn application by application some of them in the application will know what they're looking for and they're all sorts of our logic to us to their application coppell eyes and so that we're just gonna have to watch him you know I mean aside what is it who's your biggest competitor my you better than them our biggest competitor is trust a coin okay they got started before us they also have a multi cig API that doesn't care what wallet you're using um we were already integrated with a fork of the mass-market wallet and will be integrated with mainstream mass-market wallets multiple of them within the next few months they've been around over a year and they built their own dietary wallet listed as open source too soon when they're in a great way also they do in transactions wanted video addresses one at a time with their API they won't do in 2d wallets which can be very limiting for your application also they generate all the reading scripts server side so you don't know whether big go only works with their own wallet not with any other worlds and they as far as I know they don't have any intention did agree with any wallets so bit go is is its own ecosystem it's not it's not going to be part of the general multi-purpose multi-party multi cig ecosystem it'd be great if they were but they're just not engaging with those communities there's another wallet like them called green address that's also it's a multi cig wallet but it only works with itself um honestly I would love to see that go pivot to compete with us I think it would be better for the ecosystem when you're dealing with a vendor where they're writing the code that ships to you in a browser log in time and they're also holding the other key to me that won't the stick is giving their your counterpart they're holding your big one if they weren't a lot of an attack you they will and just in Bitcoin what we want to see is we want to see getting rid of Bitcoin counterparts people whose primary business is holding other people's money in Bitcoin have raised about a hundred million dollars in venture financing and they've lost over a billion dollars in customer wats bitcoin hat as an industry has the worst reputation for counterparts so the biggest exchange that oh so God's last about half about half a billion dollars there the big fifth floor lost thirty thousand points since the wall lost like what eighty-six thousand points true so Road lost 120 thousand points my point is is that as an ecosystem we have thin yes and we are not deserving a process but because we're not financial management software engineers financial management but Bitcoin because of multi-party motifs it doesn't require us to be it just requires to stop thinking we are I don't use that you argued a great marketing analysis on transactions you're thinking at how I mean if I didn't know better you saw him very much biosecurity a really good one we feel very much like the screen and our backgrounds are at security like I said at Tradehill we were holding hundred thousand of other people's points worth a thousand bucks each and we give him back um we had it we had a weighted database that was doing all about transaction matching using stored procedures so our database was literally incapable of saving a balance that didn't happen through the possible business process we only the stored procedures have right capability um before trade oh my co-founder me Ron whose foot powder both companies technical founder trade all and he was that a nice micro powder for purple Corp before year he was security engineering goons compliance group he did a cryptography behind their their payment gateway for Google Wallet he also did the tool that authorizes employee access to gmail and mother confidential goog consumer information and he did the robot compliance so when it comes to the intersection of cryptography compliance and security or I'd say one of the best teams in Bitcoin ah we're at things like you I mean I know that big wads investors from paypal Yeah right you know maybe maybe they're getting good advice do you foresee a way to guarantee on the customer side so we are going to buy insurance against a professional liability so when we make the wrong call on signing a transaction you'll be able to go to our insurance company and if you can get a court to agree that our rules say we shouldn't have signed it but we did anyway if we broke the contract and signing it then our insurance company will pay out if we signed it appropriately according to the contract you should have a lock know how does it work reviews if I convince visa also has something like that where a visa makes the wrong decision according to the decisions they're supposed to make if they do like deliberately make the wrong decision or something like that then they're liable and they'll pay off but if if fraud happened honestly then then if it's obvious problem so i guess i guess but input in general when you have somebody who's processing a transaction is not holding the money it's very difficult to hold them liable assuming they did what they said they were like even if the transaction results in fraud which transaction results at them so long as they weren't actively encouraging the fodder the theft you're probably not going to find it that said if a service wanted to get a writer insurance policy that for the purpose of the users of that application they're protected more than that then we'd be absolutely happy to talk to the insurance company about what we doing about how we help prevent bad things your user says hey calls update mine here's why's that we got that you know shut everything down from my side yeah I was procedure in place is over contact with third-party law firm in three points yes I'm generally speaking we would sweep in the instance where the counterparty was compromised but the other application or in a circumstance where the other company was being so unreliable that we felt like we were at this from the users rack because our partner the screens just to go back to the piece of thing my assumption expert my assumption is that sort of a matter of 10 I can think they hear transactions that I did attend back I am surprised to not see them you know I assumed in my liability I don't know so but that's not visa providing a character and you pay for it that's so that's your issue and bank providing that guarantee and the agreements that they have with merchant base we're wiring them to back a lot um I'll give you an example I've got an amex card right I go to a store i buy a suit I sweat my amex fun I go home I give this to a llama I take a picture of the bum the suit I call amex I said hey meds this bum stole my credit card and I found in the next day wearing a nice suit many things can happen over the next 30 days and somebody will pay for that soup but I can promise you who's not gonna pay for that sir amex that's right there in the middle of entities that could get stuck with the bill but they are not one of the entities so that I could see but if you're dealing with the director with consumers you're going to probably see that so by mr. no no that's really well we won't be dealing directly sensors will deal with wallet companies will yield applications when we deal with a wallet company each wallet is going to have its own secret and there's no need to do a sweep thing like them well one of those wall and secrets gets compromised then we can sweep that individual wallet but we don't have to coordinate with a law firm because in the case where the we're dealing with the user and their wallet is a secret the user had both secrets of penetration there is no lawful minutes the reason for a law firm is if we're partnering with somebody for an application that handles third parties money so if we're partnering with coinbase that handles their users money or with video ases you're mixing in that scenario we would say listen in the average scenario you're going to propose a morgan account and that's going to be normal that's what we're going to normally going to do but we need protection in case you go away and you need protection case we go so let's have a law firm that we agree and the average month will sign zero transactions but will remain with technical power to countersign one of us in case one of us goes away forever and these will help swipe with the funds for all the street the funds for all of the users so when I come so it depends on how you structure the wall how we're structuring one party wallets is we're forcing them to provide us with two secrets a wall creature the one that's embedded in the wallet and another one which we're requiring them to allege that they have written down and stored someone we're actually asked them to allege they've written both that and at this point if you want to recover your wallet you can buy going back to that secret and that's see all of the keys that when your wallet can be driving at sea so I mean it's like an epidemic Curren that's why I'm Greg just a user volley protect my password then I just that's between me and wallet and so did so there's a big difference between wallets and accounts of it and there are a lot of companies that issue accounts that call them wallets that really confuse them if you're not signing transactions on your local computer in a way that no one you're working with can fake then you're not have a wallet while its handle keys that sign transactions what's what Wallace that's what electrum does is what multi-bit does it stop watching us so what are we going to point you've got an account keep going to test where you've got any caplets denominated bitcoin that they owe you that they're alleging that their story but you don't have any keys you can't sign transactions all you can do is say I want you to send Bitcoin for me to this place if grandma forgets or password acquaintance coinbase can also change your passport a grandma forget your password on blockchain then what launching has to ask for is grandma that thing we told you to write down when you created your account we need that to change your password do you still have no clues like just find out so I'm very well it's I need a third degree to eventually so what one of the uses of radon will be on having us stand between you and a counterparty like we were talking about for application that can be just between you and a counterparty for a single transaction in which case you'd have a double wallet and you provide in your account configuration the key you put here is the key for the guy who sell the house write it so creates a 23 wallet when the three parties are you me and the guys song max now you're buying Teresa's you mean to sure okay then you put the money in it goes in there you can you can build whatever policies your home yeah so you put the money in there when you try to spend from there we're gonna call him in order to say is the transactional and he's going to say yes the transaction or the only spending money or is to say no yeah he's got to take my house give me that money and i'm going to say hi that's right he tries to take the money out then we call you and we say you have a house yet you need double authorization so you put the mic you put the money in and then our bed now anywhere with it we work for the contract and for the money not for you not for him right and so he tries to withdraw we asked you if you try to withdrawn we asked him if you guys can't agree wait for judge tells me or totally contractors but that's what the conferences okay good why would my office oh we love all points but what we love most or transactions per day is that we make money and so where'd any okay so that it's basically eclipse is good absolutely anything that enables something like threshold signing of pth some other technology the navels our business model once it gets enough transactions per day that we want the money what's an averaged Bitcoin because the claim is the only way on the foreseeable future to Asteria oh you said it not me I'm guessing I'm coin agnostic so if we were to work with coinbase I didn't say we're working point-based without buying that if we work to appointments then what we would probably do is a three-phase migration phase number one let's get there hot while Imelda signac so it doesn't walk away right let's just imposed global velocity water phase number two without changing their us let's reorient how their hot water works to make it not a pool hot water but instead assigning Oracle that secretary it's the money by user and science transactions appropriate to do cats right and that that would be staged number one if it's a new orphanage and then stage number three stage number two of its in your application is for advanced users that would like to tie a different wallet to this account maybe they've got a coke a wallet or maybe they're working with one of the mass-market wallet clip we're bringing the market soon they can throw in that key to instead of them being it two out of three coinbase ass lawyer it becomes two out of four point based sauce lawyer user so yeah yeah and where the one who's programmatically enforcing policy so where's the one that everybody should try the one because we're the reliable they could they'd have to develop they'd have to develop a method for sharing the first ascent transaction but presumably I wouldn't be hard but you'd be able to see after the fact if we thought if we saw coinbase or another application for often collaborating with the wallet and cutting us out of the transaction then we would probably ask them to just go pants or fees because we're sitting here being available for them being integrated their application what in potential so cutting us out of the transaction on your ongoing basis as part of your application is not a good way to build a new partnership and save money you have to choose you're either going to save my are things on your boat final question signatures to start three and then it's like you said no one saw one so my dressings yeah so so you can you reuse us in strength across right like your chest like you're just for this multi say exciting right so multisync addresses are legitimate the quaint address just like the ones that saw you send money yes in fact they're not useful until they've received money just like normal big wedding dresses oh there's no signing a transaction do we spend money that's nothing so they're interchangeable yeah they're just created they're created through a different process okay and then they follow a different process to create legitimate transactions to Reese penned with deposit oh but that's it technically they are normal Bitcoin addresses you can someone make a one aggressive that's right one and all you and then all you're doing is saying ocular minor Gary burning so a whole batch someone right well we we don't mind doing that some are you guys hiring look at the top absolutely so um if you have done UX for any major financial brand if you have contributed code into the coin wallets especially Bitcoin jariabek when Jess if you want to work with the top brands in the industry want to contribute to top five wallets or if you're building a big bite application that handles one in the store per side all of those are very very good reasons to call me we pay very well we're looking for advisors we're looking for wallet engineers looking for us thank you you