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if you can get both together really really well you can help people get what they really need and sometimes you can help get what you really need out of them as well and when both are aligned then you've got a really good uh relationship a good Society a good group a good piece of Commerce [Music] you are the pioneer of influence and persuasion and a lot of people bucket those two things together they think influence and persuasion are the same talk to us about why they're different like what are the definitions of those two words yeah so let's go to the the definitions of them influence I think it's medieval Latin so it has kind of French Latin derivation to it or etymology so influence means inflow to be in the river with so when you want to influence somebody first of all you need to get into their River you need to work out where they're already going and joined them join the patterns understand the patterns so one of the first therefore one of the first keys of influence for me is can you be influenced by them can you if you want to influence if you want to influence them can they influence you can you join them can you be sympathetic can you be empathetic can you be emotionally empathetic and cognitively empathetic as well so can you can you join in their feeling and can you think about their feeling as well at the same time so have some cognitive understanding so that's influence can you get in the same space as them and really start to understand it so that you could now start to lead where you're going start to produce behaviors and ideas that because you're now part of a group they might follow you because your behaviors seem useful to them seem quite enjoyable and they trust you now because you've been sympathetic and empathetic now then there's persuasion now persuasion the etymology of that is to move hard yeah and so in Persuasion so if we think about this metaphor of the of the river so so influence and persuasion is a river and you get in the river with them and you you know you're floating down the Lazy River with them or you're or you're you know you're swimming along hard with them and you're in the same flow as that where that river is inevitably going for them because they're kind of in charge of the feeling at that point well as you're going along and they start to trust you you can start to go there are confluences in the river there are different directions we could take and you can start to describe those different opportunities in front of them and as you describe those you can kind of Stack the deck you can describe some as more valuable than others you can evaluate uh the the the choices for...