PCA Signatory Made Easy

Pca signatory

all right everybody well welcome I know it's Friday afternoon everybody's got a lot going on but obviously this is a big issue back I guess it's all the way going back to September bill warms and by Chalker reached out and wanted to get some information on any thoughts that the contractors signatory contractors had and we put a letter letter together at that time that had some concerns for the contractors one was the main thing was really the contractors still having a voice and I know there's been a lot of discussions and things with that and also with the investment and and with the logos and and marketing and all that kind of stuff so those were the kind of the concerns that came out of our conversations and pulling the signatory contractors out there to see what was going on with this and as many of you know s SBC the leadership of Bill worms and then an ace with Bob chalk or have really been working their tails off along with Sam kitaro kitaro excuse me that put a lot of time into this so fortunately these gentlemen have agreed to come on and provide information FCA is continues and want to make sure that for this vote coming up I believe we believe it's April 3rd through the 17th right around that time period that the contractors have all the information that that you need to go ahead make the decisions because this is obviously going to be a turning point one way or another it's still going to be a turning point in the industry as we move forward so we want to make sure we provide that information one of the things I want to let you know before I introduce these gentlemen a little bit further is there's also contractors have asked us to put together a page where signatory contractors can share information ask questions put their thoughts of things they just wanted to do with the contractors I know Bill worms is going to talk a little bit at the end about the great job they continue to do to keep everybody informed I know they're putting information every Friday onto their website they've got videos at the Town Hall they got a lot of things that are that are helping everybody get as much information as possible but the MCA has put together a web page it's FCA industrial con tractors dot wordpress.com and you can go on and see information there but also have communications with other signatory contractors so that's there for you too and we'll be sending out more information on that but what we're here for today is named Scutaro the vice-president of s SS BC Board of Governors and SS PC chair of the combination Cass group he's leading the way on a lot of these discussions to make sure you guys have the information he's actually going to present to us in a brief format but enough information to really address what's going on with the contractors voice and kind of how these pieces are gonna come together and then executive director Bill worm's is also on to help supplement the conversation and again we'll be providing some information at the end of this without any further ado though I want to turn it over to Sam he's the guy along with Bill we have has the information you guys are looking for so Sam can you hear me okay yeah I can hear you Tony thanks very much for the introduction hopefully you can hear me and hopefully everyone can see the screen that says nice - SS PC combined organization proposal that look good for everybody yeah we got it all right fantastic so what we're looking to do today is give everyone on the call some additional information regarding what's going on with these talks what's transpired you know whenever you started hearing about this what's transpired over the last it's actually been about two years that these discussions to some extent have been going on and more than anything look for feedback from you know the signatory contractors the contractors are a huge aspect they make up about 43% of the membership of sspc and it's a very big group of individuals that we're concerned about at our organization we want to know what you think about this we want to know if you think overall if it's a good idea we want to know if think it's a bad idea we want to know if you think it's a good idea but you just have concerns and you want to make sure it's done right you know those are the things that we want to hear back because basically you know what has happened so far is you know task group has come together on both nieces side and sspc side so you see the blue on the left and the rat on the right mm-hmm there's a individuals in this group that have put in a tremendous amount of time done a great job they're all listed here niece has one contractor Chris Connor and sspc has two contractors on the task group myself and Gary Manus who's a signatory contractor from at Sal's painting so there's three contractors on the task group that are you know very very focused on the concerns of the contractor and that's really what we're going to probably focus the most on today but but also the concerns of evolved you know the organization as a whole and because the contractors are such a big part of sspc every one of these individuals cares very much about you know what they have to say and to make sure that if we're going to move forward with something like this it's done in the right way where the contractors are happy so to give you an idea of the timeline of what's you know sort of transpired over this time back in may 2000 18 was the first time there was a formal discussion it was a small group discussion between just the presidents of the Association the two associations and the executive directors that worked its way so by March of 2019 in June of 2019 there were larger discussions with a bigger group that's where our task group was formed and in June we had our first in-person meeting we've had three in-person meetings since that time and our most recent was just in January where we finalized the last pieces of information of what we're presenting here to everyone today and also what we presented on three occasions publicly at the sspc conference that was just held and we're also going to be presenting this PowerPoint presentation similar discussions at the nice conference coming up in March so at sspc one of the important things that happened was the first presentation that was done was to our boards that was on the Saturday preceding the meeting and the board got a lot of information we spent probably four or five hours discussing the topic getting you know every concern out there on the table hearing a lot from the individual who's been working from McKinley he's a third party his name name is Jay younger we'll talk a little bit more about him and you'll actually hear from him a little later in this presentation but they have been facilitating this process for us they were a great addition because you know nobody on the task group has gone through a non-profit merger before and he has done it many times both successfully and unsuccessfully for a number of reasons and you know he's been a great help and insight through this process so he was brought on in July of 2019 and has been part of the last two of our in-person meetings and a lot of conference calls that have happened you know nearly almost every week from the fall moving on so if you look at this whole thing why does it make sense for an H and s SPC to combine first off unified voice so if we're looking at how we get information out to our industry and when we talk about getting it out to the industry we're not just talking about North America we're talking about a global industry right now sspc and they spend a lot of time focused on what's going on in the global community because it becomes more and more of a global economy every day so that unified voice getting our standards out to the world getting information out to the world in a cooperative basis rather than a competitive basis is is a big reason for why it makes sense to come together and that includes standardizing our processes so we they make standards for the industry we make standards for the industry putting that those efforts together and doing them cooperatively with the same process you know helps a lot International is probably the largest growth area for both organizations so you know both both of us have been focused overseas you know we at all of our board meetings I was actually surprised to find out how much time we actually spend on it when I attended my first board meeting over four years ago how much time we spend talking about the International Committee community how much time we talk about what's going on in South America or the Middle East or in China you know or Asia International is a very big aspect and in fact on Neysa side it's a very big concern for them because about 45% of their membership comes from the international community as well so along the lines of standardization simplification when when we try to do standards together because there are joint standards right now some of the blasting standards are joint when we try to put those things together that process is a five to six year process to get a standard out simplifying that process if we came together as an organization is a great idea simplifying you know just all of everything that goes on like right now if you look at both organizations we're trying to get similar information out to the industry to protect you know things from corrosion I mean that that's that's out what we're all out there doing coatings are a way to do it cathodic protection is a way to do it but all these things do prevent corrosion and in some places they overlap because they're used together so simplifying the processes and the ways that we get that out there that's a big part of why this makes sense and then the last two integration and expansion of professional networks I think that's the biggest increase of value for the North American contractors which I imagine are probably most of the people on this call the one thing I was most impressed with my first nice conference was was last March and I was impressed at how much interaction they have with the owner owner community and how many of those people show up to their conferences and how many of them get involved the integration and the cooperation between a huge group of contractors which sspc has and a huge group of owners which NACE has I just think is such an untapped resource that I think that that's probably one of the biggest benefits out there for us as a contractor community so the idea is you know if we were to have conferences together that we would have ways where we can you know bring contractors and owners together in a room and talk about things that are going on possibly even bring inspection the inspection community and the contractors together I mean these are all ideas where it does make a lot of sense when we talk about combining the associations so when you talk about merging two organizations there's two things that you want to look at so McKinley associates actually took this task on they solicited information from both sspc in these which you know at the moment still as kept private only McKinley has both pieces of information because this is important unless we decide to combine you know this is really valuable information for each organization but they looked at the ideas of strategic combination and they felt is that'll you know underlying here strong impact impactful strategic direction should be feasible and a combined organization so they feel as though the idea of combining these two organizations there's there's a good strategic model and an way to do that and then also financially one of the things that you know becomes a concern is if there's a lot of overlap in the organization where you know both of them are getting all of their income from one source and then if that source now becomes consolidated financial it could be a big impact to the organization's well when we did the strategic or the financial modeling in this particular case originally we assumed the 70 percent overlap meaning that 70 percent of SS pcs membership because we have the smaller member numbers was also a member of NACE and we we did the modeling based on that and it made financial sense you know even though we would a little less revenue from membership coming in because anyone who's paying a membership table will obviously have a smaller membership moving forward they won't have to pay both the only up to day one moving forward but it still made sense because you know combining the organization's there's advantages to putting together you know our marketing departments and putting together you know our association management programs and things like that to only have one and not pay fees for both but what we found is when we actually did the modeling there was a very small a single-digit overlap so it was a very small overlap it wasn't anywhere near seventy percent so we haven't had to spend much time regarding financial modeling you know since then because you know it just made sense when we sat down to discuss combining the organizations or the associations there were a couple things that were sort of must-haves that we both put on the table and you know Nate's being the bigger organization obviously sspc was very concerned about a lot of these things so first one is equal representation so you know we showed you the blue and red boxes in the first slide we have equal membership from both you know when we started out and what we found is since then we've added people into the task group and there were a couple names at the bottom of that slide for particular reasons one was to add insight into the international community you know because that's such a big deal for nice and we wanted to make sure we had a lot of this stuff right so we added people on four particular aspects but the overall idea is equal representation but the one thing I have to tell you is even though we started out saying we want equal representation with the task group the task group itself has been so cooperative and has done such a great job of working together that we've never needed to take a vote on anything everybody has been in total agreement that's not to say we haven't discussed things at length and gone back and forth with suggestions and you know ideas exploring different routes and ways of doing things but I could tell you every time we came around to so sort of a conclusion with each aspect of what we were talking about that made sense to everybody so that there was unanimous approval you know moving forward so that that goes to the reached by consensus of all the representatives so you know as we're talking about these things there was a complete consensus it wasn't just a majority another thing that was a big concern for both organizations is nice is about 75 years old and sspc just celebrated its 70th year in existence these names have become synonymous with standards that are out there things that we care about and are very important to the industry to the specifications that are referenced out there so both of the brand names will continue to be represented in the industry even if we do combine the organization's into you know one association those brand names will continue to live on maybe similarly to the way you know GM has its individual car brands but GM is the parent company or the way Marriott brands its hotels where it's the parent company and then it's got all these brand names that still live on underneath the main brand that's the idea that we suggested to go down and then lastly the Pittsburgh and the Houston offices will continue you know - how is the majority of the operations and the employees so we want to make sure that where can we both have great employees that work for both organizations and a lot of talent and a lot of history and we want to make sure we preserve that so both offices will continue to support you know the industry moving forward so getting into the expectations so you know when it comes to members we don't want to hurt members we want to minimize the impact as much as possible now where does this make the most sense it makes the most sense for people who are members of both nice and sspc but some people say look I'm really just in the coatings I'm not concerned with what's going on on the nice side I've never really been a member there I don't want this you know combination to result in oh now my membership to stay you know to just get the value that I'm getting out of the sstc side of this is now going to be an increased cost we've heard those people we've heard those comments and you know the proposal that we're putting out is to maintain similar price structures to what everybody is seeing now mm-hmm it's also containing recommendations so keep in mind that none of this stuff is set in stone this isn't a done deal by any stretch of the imagination all that happened was is that on sspc side the board on that Saturday at our board meeting voted unanimously to continue on to a member vote but the idea here is that we want the membership to decide does this make sense and what we're doing is we're putting out a proposal again that create that contains recommendations for so far from what we've heard from you know people that we've interviewed you know actually McKinley conducted an interview with 50 individuals 25 from NACE and 25 from SPC to get a lot of feedback on you know some of the things that they were concerned about with this proposal and moving forward but the idea is that we're putting for it something that's just setting let's just say the highest tier level of information but you know what's going to happen with let's just say certifications that are overlapping PCI versus CIP you know they have an inspector program we have an inspector program or the QP program versus NICAP that's probably a big concern to the contractors the idea is that you know we as a task group are not the best ones to decide the outcomes of how that combination would come together how it's going to work because we're not the ones living it necessarily every day the people who are living it every day are the people that are on the task groups right now the people that are in the PCC t Advisory Committee on sspc side the people that are involved with an I cap on maces side we need to get those people together and they're the ones that are going to make the suggestions to the future boards that I'm going to discuss in just a moment you know just to set the stage for how you know all of this is going to come together so first before we get to the board structure the corporate structure so you know everybody's concerned that you know NACE is going to absorb sspc or you know I don't think there's a lot of concerns otherwise that asset niece is going to go into sspc but the idea here is that we take very seriously that this is you know a new organization that's going to be created from the members of both of the previous organizations so we are going to create a new organizational structure and because of the tax structure in the u.s. we have to have two different entities a 501 C 3 and a 501 C 6 for tax purposes there's there's just no other way to do it it's unfortunately what the lawyers say it will still continue to be one organization but for tax purposes we have to have two separate boards the members when you sign up you will be a member of the c6 for the purposes of just joining but you will be a member of the entire organization all right but it will definitely be something new it will be something that that nice and sspc are combining into a new format so c6 which is newer and we're just using new org right now as a placeholder name this isn't names that we're going to use the due diligence to go through and find a name is a six to nine month process which you know we haven't even started we don't want to take that on because if they'll say an expensive process until we have support from the memberships that this makes sense but the typical things that need to be contained in the c6 which is the left side are the things like advocacy certification accreditation where the membership lives where the operation the back-office side and any business development like sales and marketing the right side is more you know the guts of the organization that's where the education and training comes from that's where our standards live the technical side and the research side any publications that go out the conference's and our young contractors side is all going to live in that particular organization and that's the c3 side of things so and for the purpose is also certification accreditation we separated them so certification means individual certification so if you have like a PCI certification that is under the certification phase whereas accreditation refers to something like your QP certifications that you may have so accreditation for a company certification for an individual so the board so this is the board that was on the left side the c6 board is going to be 17 members it's going to have a chair a vice chair and Immediate Past Chair there would be three-year terms on this particular board right now sspc has four-year terms we're going to bring that down to a three-year term to match what an ace does right now no more than two consecutive terms mm-hmm and it'll have executive committee of financial and an audit committee that all report to this particular board now the new org institute board is a board made up of more members it's going to also have a chair a vice chair and Immediate Past Chair and the idea between having different amount of members is the goal here is again that initial evenness between sspc and ace meaning we will have an equal number of sspc people on the new org board and the newer Institute board as NACE will so it matches up at least initially so that you know we have some sort of balance there this particular board is going to be made up on more of a constituency basis so it's going to have you know contractors owner suppliers international consultants you know involved in this particular board on a more prescriptive manner than the other board the other board is going to be based on you know knowledge skills and abilities so one of the things that people don't realize when it comes to board decisions is you know the board is out there trying to steer the direction of a company or an organization sspc being about nine million dollars in size right now a little over and nice being somewhere in the neighborhood of 35 million dollars in size so this combined organization is going to be over a 40 million dollar revenue company that has the same kinds of problems that you know regular companies have especially doing business in that size range so to have strategic individuals guiding sort of the business side of it is going to live in this new org board right here whereas everybody who is you know more and that's where we need the knowledge skills and abilities for things like how to handle budgets how to handle or develop strategic lookouts on where we're going to be going what we need to be selling whereas the Newark Institute board is going to be primarily focused on you know the training modules so this is where you know the membership is going to vote for people who have those constituencies where the membership is a you know aware that they participate a lot in committees technically they have a real strong and sound basis for what's going on so the nominating committee that sort of sits between these two boards is going to be made up of eight individuals those eight individuals are going to be made up of members previous board members so they'll have to be three sorry one previous board member from Newark one previous board member from Newark Institute there's going to be the chair of that committee will be the Immediate Past Chair of Newark and also another member will be the Past Chair of Newark Institute additionally from that we identified three classes of membership that are almost needs to be protected and always need to have seats on this nominating committee one is the owner one is the contractor and one is someone from the global community all right so we're going to talk a bit about these advisory councils in another couple slides but the nominating committee will be populated by one person from each of these advisory councils to make sure those classes are protected and always represented on the nominating committee because the nominating committees goal is on the see six board which is new org the nominating committee is going to put together a slate of individuals based on knowledge skills and abilities that are asked for by that board and then the board itself will look at the nominees and will vote for the individuals that will go on to that board which is different from the new org Institute board where they're looking for people with knowledge skills and abilities in like the technical aspects of things and it's going to be demographic based like we said so those names will be put up to the membership and the membership will actually vote for the seats on that particular board which is the way it's done you know currently with sspc right now all right so underneath the boards there's committees that are going to be very very important to how the board thinks how the board acts these committees are similar to committees that exist now within sspc so for example when you see new org on the left there's an accreditation program committee that accreditation program committee is a lot like our PCC tea advisory committee so some of the people on this call might be part of that group that's the group that helps determine how the kewpie program is administered within sspc and makes recommendations to the board which the board in most cases always accept their recommendations with how to proceed and how to move through because they're the experts you know same thing with certification advocacy membership these are all program committees they're going to become really important now on the newer Institute side you have education and training standards so the standards review committee within sspc is very similar to the way the standards program committee would operate in this new structure where again it's reviewing that the committee's that are actually developing these standards did it according to the right processes followed all the rules that the standards review committee agrees that this is a good idea to put out to the industry and that they bring it up to the board for you know approval so there's a whole set of program committees there that are also a big part of this so next to the Advisory Council so the contractor owner and global affairs advisory councils these are the protected categories and the reason we protected them is because look everybody's out there for the owner everybody is out trying to sell business the owner whether they're a manufacturer supplier a consultant we're all there for the owner right contractors they're another category that actually is out there buying things so if you have the contractors happy generally the people that are selling to the contractors are going to be happy as well and then the last piece of the global community so Global Affairs Advisory Council will basically consider things that are going on globally and and they'll have that that person that they appoint to the nominating committee to make sure that they're represented on each board all right so these are some of the guiding principles you know maintaining current dues levels as much as possible look when we combine is everything going to be exact no but we're trying to combine them in a way that you know whatever you're paying now is going to be pretty similar to what you'd be paying in the future increasing opportunities for engagement putting people together so that they could network better improving or making it easier to access things like benefits and not to disrupt you know the current membership this is what we're going for and then chapters and sections again member led study is going to tell us what's the best way to handle chapters and sections because you know in certain aspects they should definitely be combined you know maybe like in my part of the world which is the New York New Jersey area both nice the the nice section here and the sspc chapter struggling to continue to have good membership by putting them together hopefully it's going to revive that particular area and and get some good local representation and then the idea is to have the members in those areas you know put together recommendations on on what's going to happen moving forward now going to your certifications and accreditation this is where we found that there's overlap and again I've already kind of covered this that the task group itself is not the best group of individuals to say what's best to happen between the protective coatings inspector and the nice coatings inspection program or the QP program in NICAP we're not there to do that the idea is very quickly to create member lead groups that would make recommendations to the boards on how to handle and how to move forward you know taking the best the idea is really to take the best from both and move forward with you know one program that would be a better service to the industry and the most important thing when you talk about certifications and accreditations here is that if you have an accreditation or certification right now that you will maintain that going forward that is you know once that there is the only thing that will change is once that there's a new program in place there might be a new way to renew it so your renewal process might be slightly different but you will not lose what you have right now that is an important takeaway here that if you have protective coating as inspector right now and for some reason we call it something different or recall it the coatings inspector program moving forward your protective coatings inspector certification will move into that new you know whatever it is that's created all right so sspc we already talked about how to smote on February 1st unanimous approval there to move forward to a book to a member vote niece is going to do the same thing on March 14th so you know once it's set for a you know a membership vote it's going to look something like this so on April 3rd we're going to send out an email similar to the emails that you've used to that you've gotten in the past before for let's just say if you were voting on new board members where it's going to ask a question it's going to ask for your response to that question it's going to look something like this the boards of nee-san sspc have both approved the combination do you approve the proposed transaction yes or no there will be a place for comment and we would love your comments now the one thing I want you guys to please keep in mind that you've been telling everyone in town hall meetings is if you think that this is bad for the industry to have to combine nice and sspc then that's understandable why you'd want to vote no but if you are have concerns that or if you feel like this is the combination could be a good thing for the industry nation sspc coming together could be good but you have concerns about how that's going to be done I would implore everyone to vote YES and become involved in the process because the people that get involved in the process will help shape how well that combination gets done so so that that's just you know one thing you know if you have concerns like that you know say yes but get involved you know and if you if you have concerns now now is the time to bring it up because you know this is what we're proposing now but I could tell you we've gotten so much feedback from the town halls from sspc that they they've been imperative to us for moving forward and without a doubt we're taking that information and we're making changes right now in what's going to be proposed there's also going to be a line down below that says if you'd like more information about the transaction click here so there might be some additional slides or new information at that point in time that will be available before you make your vote so one more thing I want to share is on the CEO Jay younger from McKinley Advisors was speaking to a question asked from Gary Maness one of our board members and I'd like everybody to hear it a lot of people on this board including myself don't have first-hand involvement with mergers or experience in your opinion how is the compatibility and feasibility of these four conditions comply you know as high as I've ever seen and I'll say that out front you have an ace and sspc golden opportunity to put that I'll just put that in air quotes to speak assuming the other an opportunity to do something that very few organization can do which is to consolidate to existing very successful businesses that do not have a fundamental flaw overlap right so what we often see in the M&A space in the association sector is that you've got two organizations that effectively do the same thing and sure there are areas of overlap there are areas duplication between essence of PC and ace but when we put the organisation side-by-side and we look at your competencies your capabilities your constituencies everything about the organization are highly complementary and build something new and better with a very limited amount of what I'll call collateral damage but what we often see is when two organizations want to try and come together you've got 80% or 90% overlap in terms of programming staff and it gets really tough to put it together and not cause that collateral damage there oh you know just from from our objective point of view I don't know that I've ever seen one that has as much to recommend it objectively as as you all do the other thing that I'll just I'll continue to underscore is the spirit of these conversations among the task group and your leadership has been outstanding he says we have not had we have not had the same type of well what I'll call drama because I think there's a business case here is very solid the mission opportunity is very very sound so you know from my point of view you know I I rarely find something that has quite as much upside potential as what you guys have here and just for the record you know look I think that sspc your organization in this proposed strong model comes out extremely well you know I can't think of another example that I've been involved with where you have been able to uphold the guiding principles that were established at the beginning in such an explicit and material way your you are truly consolidating here from a basis of a merger of equals which is highly unusual when you look at the kind of relative size of the two organizations coming together and just about every other case that I can think of that I've been involved with that drives the term machine and it is not a balanced outcome you are absolutely getting that here so just with your SPC hat on I think you've accomplished a tremendous outcome in terms of building that guiding principle into what's in problem all right so I just want to mention that one question came up in one of our town hall meetings was that staged because that was just to perfect it truly honestly was not staged and in addition McKinley advisors is being paid to facilitate our discussions they are they do not get any additional payment if this is successful they don't get any extra incentives in any way so that was you know just truly his feelings and honestly we've been hearing that throughout the entire process is that you know our discussions have been going exceptionally well so with that that's that's the last I have to share we're going to open it up for questions thanks Sam great presentation did I hear you say that if you like your health plan you can keep it yes is overlooked in all of these discussions is the status of MPI as now owned by NACE and so I would like you to address what is going to happen and what is planned for MPI on both their certification and accreditation standards as well as their body of knowledge and maybe that then ties into the status of PDCA now known as PC so I'll leave it up to you but that's a that's a valuable point of discussion at least from the perhaps the architectural and commercial painters Andrew this is that's a great question it actually hasn't been asked yet so far so MPI is its own for-profit company that is currently a subsidiary of NACE it will continue to operate in its exact form right now it will be a subsidiary of the new organization it has its own individual who's in charge of it Cindy O'Malley for anyone who knows is in charge of that particular organization and it will continue to operate the way it's going right now under the guidance of the two boards that will govern the Association moving forward and its future CEO with regards to PCA formerly PDCA that is an entirely separate organization that is not part of any of these discussions not related in any way and other than them knowing what is going on they're not involved in any of this process unless they're members or members of both and have input so thank you for your response I would then make the comment that I would appreciate I hear what you're saying it'll remain a subsidiary becoming a subsidiary which means that it'll get the same attention that it's getting now which is very little and so I would hope that if you were to carry back amongst the discussions you would carry back that at least one common at least made Munch's and that MPI is important to commercial an architectural painting contractors I will absolutely carry that back not being a board member of mace I'm not privy to exactly how it's handled right now but I can tell you that niece is very invested in their future they have told us that and in the future of MPI and they said that they're very happy with the acquisition that they made and want it to continue and to get better so I know that something on their side that they're interested in and we will convey that information thank you thank you is mr. farms some things we're gonna add about yes yeah thank you Tony fen for those of you that are interested in any more information or detail as updates become available they are available on our website you can see in front of you now it is www.hs sec org and if you go to the front page there's a link that brings you to the page you see in front of you now where it has sspc update o and NACE on a weekly basis are putting on updates as decisions are made by the task group teams and that's in conjunction with our legal teams and all that information is put out there also in the right hand corner you can see a bald head there that's me from our town-hall meeting that was reported live for facebook and it's basically what Sam presented using slides with some dialogue from people in the audience asking questions Bob Chalker and I also did a podcast last Thursday and our conference with carrot carve a line that will be posted within the next couple days on this website also and as Sam mentioned next week at the next week next month at the nice conference there'll be four townhall meetings held throughout the week and if any of you are there please join us at that time excellent well again Sam and Bill appreciate your guys's time I'll get everybody if you have any questions just go ahead and reach out to these guys or let us know sure we'll be sharing this information and there'll be more information that will be put out like Bill shared there's every Friday there's updates that they're putting up on their web pages and that so the information is out there for everybody to get prior to the boat that that it's scheduled for April 3rd through the through the 17th so gentlemen I can't thank you enough for taking the time especially on a Friday afternoon I know you guys know this is important and and believe how important it is to the industry so we appreciate it and thank you so much for spending your time with us today no problem have a nice weekend everybody thanks for having us