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I mean the I are here and we've been talking about differences because our conversation started around how do we explain where we started from we were talking about what makes a person gay is it you know but 10-15 years ago people maybe 20 years ago they would say it was because you know you were your parents the way you were raised or you know your mom was mean to you or your dad wasn't her didn't like you and so you ended up going the other direction now it's a it's a genetic thing they talk about the genetics and so we were looking into the part about being gay and being transgender right and it's very interesting it was very detailed what we read what we learned it was on YouTube yeah it was detailed and talked too fast I couldn't keep I think they crowned a 40 minute teaching into four minutes yeah and but I mean that we got the gist of it right and so then that God is talking about then there was a video that Faldo played after that one was finished was that this this boy who was born a boy but is now transition at age 11 to being a female I would say I would say he didn't transition I think well that was she I think she okay she I think was female right from the beginning just happen to have male genitalia Yeah right for whatever genetic reasons you know hormones chemicals they affect your genes whatever they're made up of sometimes we've got a bit of a break off of an X chromosome replaced by a piece of a Y chromosome so you know you might have something different happening genetically and with a different environmental factors that can change how you whether you how you print whether you have male genitalia or female but you still are a female like you were born a female and you are the parents just you didn't figure it out and how after you're born you do any changes okay can be triggered yeah yeah based on experiences or chemicals like hormones like testosterone when your body starts to produce that then it affects the alleles and stuff but then they start to change you start to produce these male features and you know who's to say though that you know you're not female and so they talked about how brains though the interesting is right which with the transgender if you're you identify with being female whether or not you've got that genitalia that you have the same type of brain as a female and the thing is that you know people say that there's no difference but actually there is a difference in the composition and the activity in certain parts of the brain like the frontal cortex more so for females is more developed and for the males they have less where was it hypo campus in the brain it's like very central part of the brain very small compared to the female weight and then the on the exterior part of the brain the males action and like function and even the size is different it's very different brain so they found males that had a certain type of physiological structures what we're talking about here was a similar to what a transgender person was identifying with that that man so there all these factors going on yeah that are influenced them and well yeah where I thought we could go with this conversation is in terms of one of the things we're we're doing in life or Gammy's talk about the four laws of individuality and one of them is self-expression yeah and so I was just just before we started this recording I was inquiring about I was this musing that you know is my inability to allow myself to see differences or to explore being different inhibiting myself expression which and is that I guess part of me is musing is that a is that uh is that because is that how does self-acceptance play into my willingness to explore to see differences to allow people to be different to allow myself to explore differences and to be different and to take or to take risk or to try new things and how does that inhibit my self-expression I think that a lot of people are born to believe in the laws of science and physics the rules of society structured schedules all those kind of things where they know there's definite answers to yes and no different answers to things and so you know we go around thinking okay it's not okay for him to play with a doll and it's not okay for her to play with GI Joes and you know there's all these rules we become attached to wanting their things to be a certain way and you know we're told that things are certain sorry that's where it comes from and the fitness is that this somehow when you're attaching to things you can't like though there's some sort of a roadblock there there's some sort of a blame shame guilt beating going on behind the scenes that won't allow you to detach from something you know at your adherence to to society principles and and values and beliefs expectations based on how you appear right what you look like the fact that when you're born they see male genitalia or you know you have a boy and then you raised you you raised the boy as a boy but in that case with chazzy if you look up Chas you tube you're gonna see this MBC video where they tell the story and interview this young this young girl how always felt from a very young age he was he was attracted to you go over to visit playmates and they would they would get they would play dress-up and he'd play dress-up he'd get dressed up in dresses and he'd want to be a ballerina she pardon me while he was a he at the time you know because he was she see she was a see all the time she was never he well that's a fair point but my the point I'm making though is that he's he's sort of true he's sort of trapped in a projection of being male as my point yeah and that he was she you know she was desperately seeking that self-expression so there are and so there are those core issues that are that there's a fundamental innate so what makes self-expression a law of individuality or what is a law a law is something that you know gravity is the law of gravity gravity just works other ways BB floating gravity works differently on the moon than it does here it's it's just a law and it just works well self-expression is just a lot we are all exploring from the moment of our birth self-expression what it means what does it mean to be me what does it mean to be in this body what does it mean to be if this as a part of this family what does it mean to be part of this this culture yeah that's that's a good question about culture differences some have different they allow certain things like in some cultures if you're gay they'll throw you off a roof like what's bad about or in some countries the president will not allow you to identify with being agenda you you actually are versus your Jenna right and you know they just they won't even allow it you know you're allowed to beat up transgender people they're not and there may be a change going on down the United States right now where the Trump administration is it's either change or in the process of changing that yeah it's gonna be based your your sex it can be based solely on your genitalia at birth and so there's gonna be no room for people like chazzy who are trapped they're gonna be trapped in a role or they're not their basic humanity is not even gonna be acknowledged I think what the problem there is is that you've got a president who isn't very smart in the sense that oh yeah he doesn't know if he doesn't believe in global warming you know there's the thing about the genetics part he couldn't understand a thing he probably doesn't know what a chromosome is you know but if he understood if he gave a damn and he listened to the science behind it and understood it well he does whatever he whatever he wants but the but the issue right but what I'm saying is that ignorance oh yeah yeah ignorance yeah it is a very big blank you know two people being accepting differences amongst two people and cultures we're not just talking physical or so saw psychological we're talking socially we're talking and economically there's so many different factors and the question is is whose problem is it exactly right as a very good point but what's behind you know what's behind that that what's really driving all those those behaviors I mean behind ignore the source of ignorance a part of me Minh this case and maybe in many cases it's intolerance my ability you know my people who assign they it's not just judging a projections it's like they're pronouncing right buddy not good enough because they're different and it's based on their own insecurities the way they think about themselves the mindset and so that's the lens and that they yeah and the filter through which they see they see the world and they see themselves they and they paint everybody with that brush so whatever game they're playing inside and whatever laws they govern their own life by their own principles their own ethics morals values beliefs they think that the rest of the world operates the same or should be if it doesn't because you know so they I've lost my train of thought well you know the the ignorant ignorance and sometimes ignorance is fueled by lack of education sometimes it's intolerance what's behind into where I was going it you spoke to what's behind intolerance to me is often fear fear of difference fear you know or a lack of I mean a lack of understanding that and and an unwillingness to acknowledge that something is some or someone he's different you know what that would mean for them though if they had to give somebody else a break and that allow them to live by some other rules they would have in laws they would have to accept the fact that maybe they were or maybe not the word wrong but that the world doesn't revolve around their opinions and the way they see themselves and they project it well they'd be nothing you'd have to examine then yourself in your views yeah and go hmm maybe things aren't as black-and-white as I as I thought they were and that would mean they would some people are afraid of being judged yes so the fundamental problem mental challenge with differences is that when someone shows up different than I expect mm-hmm yeah I'm now I'm confronted with a choice mm-hmm I go oh isn't that interesting Wow tell me more about that why you're looking good today or what are the that's that's really interesting you know you know what's been your journey to this point to be curious as opposed to or to I make a choice to be curious as opposed to I don't like that and I push back against that get into tension anxiety frustration and resistance and whenever we you know what you know there's that old adage what we resist persists interesting yeah I was thinking also you know this doesn't just apply to when we're talking about gay or transgender right individual absolutely not what about people like me uh you know up until I was in grade ten I was what they call a tomboy right right I climbed trees I played with GI Joes I played with trucks I squashed squished worms and I carried salamanders and salted Oh tails and you know I did all those things played with frogs and tadpoles and you know I wore jeans and well I were not very girly stuff I didn't like to do my hair and I just was not feminine and in the sense right people consider to be feminine and then something happened about grade ten eleven and I started like I wanted to do something with my hair I want my ears pierced okay I wanted to start wearing makeup I started wearing I loved blouses that had some sort of embroidery into it or even crocheted type of clothing and I started wearing heels and you know I'm gonna just changed my perspective on things and that's okay now what about people though that identify themselves as female and they have female genitalia but they like to do the same they like science I like math all the things that are like men kind of things but you see that that's yeah okay and Jada my daughter was telling me that there is a higher percentage now of females and university studying science and math and then there are men though well that's flip-flopped yes that's awesome but you see it's interesting you talk about these differences now when I was growing up I felt different so first of all I'm the youngest and my brother's eight years older my sister's 13 years older that there's big difference in the age yeah and their whole life you know our lives were very different my life eight years younger and thirteen years younger was very different than where they were what they were at what they were experiencing but the biggest difference that I struggle with is my mother was used to talk about how I was different how I was more like her side of the family how I was more like the Guthrie's than not the Dixon's and I brought in my brother and sister were very much smaller boned uh you know probably five something you know five five and a half feet that type of thing and but I was very different I was more chunky more as more barrel chested as my mother referred I was different I felt different and I subsequently but in my child brain I took that to mean that I was not the same I wasn't that out that there was something wrong with me and that I wasn't technically a part of the family I didn't fit in yeah and so there was that it took me decades to sort that out and it wasn't probably till you know my 30s that I really began to wrap my arms around the fact that yeah I was different and when I met I didn't actually meet my uncles on my mother's side and they're chill Jarrell until much later because I was born so much late later than my brothers and sisters they had cousins their age I didn't and because that we didn't travel in those circles when I was being raised I didn't meet my the Guthrie side of the family until I was in my late 20s mid 20s late 20s early 30s and I could see that I was definitely like the Guthrie side and that so I gantu feel like I fit I began to see oh I guess my mom I guess mom was right yeah and I didn't have that in fiora t that in fear already slowly evaporated that I wasn't a Dixon uh-huh it's strange huh honey how you identify like if my parents my dad was to say oh you're like this side of the family then you right away you start thinking about your uncle that drinks or your or your aunt that plays the piano or your cousin who is right maybe among later you know what I'm saying you start thinking oh my god I want that side of the family or on the other side they're all Daffy deepest so they might all be intelligent right right like oh good I'm on this side of the family then there was this on my side of the family there's this whispering about my my um my uncle's first wife and this and that did you know that as a kid you hear this stuff and then it imprints you right yeah I'd like that word imprints yeah you know our imprint so you know we're born male we're born male or female genitalia and we were raised culturally to be a male or a female we're imprinted with those same characterizes we're imprinted with well we don't do that in our family our family is this way our family's German our family is Scottish rusk family is what English whatever it might be we're in we've got all these imprints and probe you know almost like software programs scripts that are running based on memories based on experiences which lies into the which which feeds and could trigger an experience which triggers the epigenetics to change our genes and so there was also a study of of twins and they did this study and they found you know but that identical twins are supposed to have the same DNA they do except what they found with the they'd started studying twins where one was straight and one was gay and they found that the DNA of the a twin changed from birth that's when you talk about environmental changes environmental changes the whole epigenetic the influent the environmental impact which means the good news is so which means our environment shapes us who we're with what we do what our experiences are how we're raised a society we're in the community the whole everything we experience our life shapes us the good news is if we make conscious choices we can change and rewire our brain and rewrite those program and re imprint ourselves so so what are you suggesting like what are you saying like well aware 'no siz the first step hmmm okay it is self-expression how does that relate to though whether you're gay or straight I mean well I mean I'm saying that so for example I mean if I if I have attraction towards the same sex and I don't feel comfortable safe or otherwise being able to express that or explore that my self-expression is gonna be stunted okay so you're talking about yeah so the psychological part there's a whole psychological thing yourself for who you were self-acceptance is a gigantic part of giving you know to the degree that I get to a place of self-acceptance that I would let myself do things so for example in my life and from a creek I've always thought of my creativity as being in business my creativity and my writing and it's only since we've been married and I'm in you you've got involved with different crafts and stuff that I started exploring with sketching and painting and so I I I'm in the process of creating a Christmas ornament I bought an ornament and I'm the process of coloring it and painting it and I drew a Mendell on it and that's something that I literally felt drawn to but yet for years and decades I didn't give myself permission to explore that I didn't have the acceptance that for some reason I think when you can reach up a place of self-acceptance then you have the confidence because you don't have the the luggage in the baggage dragon not on your around your ankles from moving you forward and growing and right figuring out who you are what you want what matters to you what gives your life meaning and giving yourself the permission to pursue those things it's not just a matter of knowing what matters right but being able to maybe be unshakable to the point that you will just do whatever it is that makes your life fulfilling which opens you up to a whole realm of possibilities doesn't mean you're gonna do them all yeah but at least you could explore it and look at you know there's that old saying that whether you think you can and whether you think you can't you're right you're right and I think also when you start having good experiences like let's say you decide I want to be a hairdresser let's say you're male and I want to be a hairdresser I want to be the best hairdresser in the world let's say and but maybe you're gay mm-hmm and you don't want your parents to know because maybe they're all there of a very homophobic type of mindset okay but then you decide okay I'm I'm a great person what they have to say doesn't meses airily it's not true their opinions are kind of stunted back in the 50s so I'm just gonna do my own thing so you go out you go to school you become a hairstylist you you go to your first salon you start working you get all these people that love your doing their hair next thing you know you're going to those competitions where you're you're I'm doing hair and stuff and then you win a couple medals next thing you know you're draw you're going to Hollywood your end you're you're doing hair there for somebody who's got you know this happened to a friend of mine who wasn't gay but anyway he got to go and they would phone him up and say oh you know come and do my hair and I'm doing a show and so he'd run up there and do their hair and so when you start having these good experiences mm-hmm then you start saying hey look at the difference in my life how it's improved because I went after what it is I wanted exactly and then you start having more confidence to do the next thing and the next thing in it it starts to accelerate your growing cerf your inner growing curve towards self-acceptance increases yes so the law of self-expression is always there it's always working we the key is am I in resistance to my self-expression it'll have tension around self-expression or am I willing to by willing to support myself and explore something that might be different or to allow my mind to expand and believe that I could you know I could I could do a painting that I could sketch a mandala that I could that I could start a business that I could help other people start businesses or that we could even do this thing called life origami I think it's all about being curious right following your what your curiosity what what makes what interests you you know do I want to read this book do I want to go down to that festival down the street I want to check out the gay parades maybe I want to go to a I don't know whatever it is you choose is about being curious and and what's the status of your heart what's your heart longing it's one of the things we talked about last night yeah we talked about in terms of self-expression he said is that that somewhere between mcc's plural say you know what's meaningful to us and exploring what is significant in the middle what helps facilitate and connect those two dry those two Cardinal what we call cardinal rules of identity is my heart is my heart open or is it closed my heart am I willing to give myself permission to come to a place of self-acceptance to say it's okay for me to express myself in certain ways I think such expression is composed of being able to communicate with yourself and others and make connections right and also in order for that to happen though you have to know what matters to you you have to have an open mind you have to have you have to be aware of what's in your heart mm-hmm so self-expression I mean that helps us to pursue meaning in our life make us feel significant right and when there's meaning and significance there's joy right so and you were talking about things that you might like to do because you know following what interests you and stuff like that but what about the things you don't know yeah that's a good point you don't know that did you know that you were gonna like working with sculpey did you know that you're gonna you were gonna end up sifting flour to make gingerbread cookies and that and I made a gingerbread man as part of sculpt Ian and I wrote on it bite me I mean well no well no but you see again but being around you who is very you know you're really into self-expression and hobbies and and creative stuff it kind of because you were out there living it uh-huh it gave me permission that hmm I had all these feelings creative urges lying dormant that I never gave myself permission because there were always other things that seemed to be more important mm-hmm well why when I first met you I'm like how come you I was working it's like when you have time you're reading some nerdy thing you know already are you're writing something and you just never take a break what you don't want to come over here on New Year's I like to paint right always yeah that was Anna you know and I'm like get your your buttinsky over here and I'm gonna teach you how to paint with acrylics right and yeah and it was fun it was fun so now maybe you're not just as much a word nerd fuddy duddy but she here's the thing though but you know I I'm kind of like the case study for what we're talking about because there was a level I saw myself a certain way yeah my my my you know in terms of I mean one of the cardinal rules of identity is connection and our meaning in significance I should say and so I didn't I you know my life was meaningful through the writing but I didn't imagine how I could experience a sense of meaningfulness a sense of by exploring being creative in different ways yeah and it opens up your world in so many ways like for instance here's an example you can go to Mexico on a trip right mm-hmm and you can go to let's say a resort all inclusive food drink right entertain whatever right yeah you can do that or you can choose to take a tour sit in the middle of some little tiny town in the middle of nowhere next to this fellow and he'll teach you how to make baskets right so can you see yourself sitting or at the table at a resort or sitting there on the ground and making tiles and making wicker baskets or you're you got your hands in there you're around the people the cultures you're talking you're dancing with them you're making cookies with them you're going to corn bakes with them you're swimming in the ocean with them they do you want to immerse your do you want to fully inhabit that vacation see that's something I could explore because you know I've got I've done things rather than get a taxi I'll go rent a motor scooter and go get lost well yeah and go explore and see what we can see that that was self-expression but this idea of being creative and working with my hands drawing that sort of thing okay I can't draw a straight line actually I can anybody can use that to concentrate but you know there's these stories about the way I saw myself I had a limited perspective around how around my identity there specifically around what I thought would bring meaning into my life what I thought would make me significant well that my life would matter uh-huh that's changing no has always been it's always been in a state of flux then there's this Society thing okay what makes you matter your life matter whether you have toys whether you have money yeah but you have family your NBA basketball star whatever it is you did this you said this you felt that you know what one person thinks is successful and the other doesn't so now let's say if my parents were to meet you which they never will if I have my way they would say oh he's a business coach when's he gonna get a real job from the house they don't believe in this entrepreneurship thing right right so if you're not a doctor lawyer and you don't work for Chrysler Canada you're just not ever gonna be enough but on the other token then there's people that'll look at you and say oh man it must be nice you can set your own hours you know you could work as much as you want or as little as you want you could take off and go on a vacation you can coach we're talking about imprinting again aren't we yeah so I mean are you going to say okay well I'm not gonna go into okay let's say we're kids and we're going into the world of going to college and stuff and you say okay well I have always wanted to be an artist I want to take this arts program right and your dad's saying to you yeah but you're you know if you're an artist you're gonna be hungry you're never gonna amount to anything you're gonna be a loser whatever it is they want to throw at you I think you should since you happen to be good in chemistry we think you should be a chemist yeah and you know you end up going to chemistry because then you're they don't call you stupid they don't call you any of those things you do what is acceptable to your parents because you want to earn their love but at some point in your life you're going to you're gonna cut the umbilical cord and you're gonna say you know I still want to paint and I'm good at it and I'm miserable in the chemistry lab so you follow your bliss but there's a certain amount of detachment that has to happen that's very interesting because in my case it was flipped you see when I was my last year of high school I ended up with mono and pneumonia but and then a year later my dad died but I was well before my father died I had this conversation they call it the conversation on the orange couch because he saw he had an identity for me of going to university oh it did he saw how intelligent I I was wife I went to university he actually had a business degree oh yeah and so he knew all that work but he had an identity around going to university but I had and he had a desire to support me to help explore that but I hadn't it I didn't have that identity because I at high school I didn't pursue matriculation yeah I went to it - Harry Ailey high school with in Edmonton which was a sort of trade sort of thing I didn't pursue matriculation but I got my eye I eventually got my high school diploma had to go get English 30 afterwards because I was sick and I didn't have enough credits anyways long story short I had an identity around my ability work with my hands because when I was in high school in junior high I had a really positive experience in shop and then I went to high school I took drafting I took sheet metal I took machine shop I took welding I took building construction what else fitting and auto mechanics and I really glommed onto cars I really enjoyed working with cars and I got job pumping gas as well I had this identity it was forming around cars and then I was invited by my employer to apprentice as a mechanic I was about to do that then I got sick but my point is I definitely can look back now and see that I had this imprint of being a mechanic to imprint of being a good with working with my hands and did not my struggle with math could have been overcome I know that now but I was not I did not have the identity the belief that I could embrace that I think I had that same type of thing about my kids I thought you know I didn't get the chance to go to college it was against my parents religion for me to be a human being mm-hmm and I had this thought in my head and when I got older and had all my kids that they're all gonna go to university they're all gonna go to college yeah and they're going to get a degree so that they can take care of themselves and they're not gonna be homeless like I did my daughter's aren't going to be in subject to males that will make them stay at home and make cookies and not have a career that kind of thing I have this thing set in my mind yeah then you have kids right okay and they don't come with a manual right I wish that came with a thumb drive but yeah download download but the thing was is that we're not all the same my boys were hands-on one loved the auto industry he loved mechanics he loved parts and he likes sales you know and the other one he likes cooking and photography and hair and fashion and sales he likes sales as well but he also likes electronics and devices so that's his thing so you know they're very different type of people then I've got a daughter that's you know knows languages kind of like was heading down the direction of being a linguist until she got hit by car but she's back on track now and she may be changing what she wants to do because she's a different time in her life right and she's thinking about going back to university next year or college or whatever she decides so has your imprint change or has their perspective and life experiences definitely sure effective yeah and then I got another daughter who's in psychology and she plans on going all the way she's gonna get her she'll probably end up with a PhD knowing that girl but what if she changes her mind right what if in four years she decides that she wants to fly an airplane and you know I mean you hit on a big one there changer my god how dare you bring that up that I would change my mind that you would change my mind I mean okay that's what we do you change your mind here's another thing that uh we assign to gender women are allowed to change their minds men aren't but you know the fact that we change our minds I mean yeah like literally if I had not changed my mind we might not be together yeah because I had at a certain point two two year over two years ago I said I kind of given up on being in a intimate relationship and being in a loving relationship I'd given up on it but then a friend of mine challenged me on it and I thought well maybe you know what maybe I could you know if there are certain qualities you know maybe I'll maybe I'll be open that kind of like okay universe if there's someone out there I'm ready - I'm ready to meet them and poof they're you appear and then what happened on my site I was I had been staying with my mom since I came back to Alberta I'd stayed with her and I was feeling pretty depressed and she was pushing her religion again on me yeah and they said that I was not a spiritual enough person based on their own a Dogma wasn't spiritual enough and that no man would ever want me because I'm not spiritual enough unless you know I conformed and it also wasn't okay to go out with a man that was not in their particular religion so that was bad so I was supposed to live my life a martyr being not enough and being lonely on my own she had to believe that yeah if I had indulged in it for a very long time and then one point I realized that I was getting sick I was getting physically sick and depressed because I was sad thinking I wasn't enough and that I couldn't have the things that I wanted I want it to be in a relationship and I'm like who are they who are they to tell me I'm not enough right right and their version of who God was made him sound like you some sort of psycho right so that I'm thinking maybe their religion isn't all that in a bag of chips right so I decided okay um they said to me that I could not work again because I was having problems with depression and I'm like well that's a bunch of baloney so I decided I was going to okay if I'm having trouble working why not be an entrepreneur like I was - twelve years ago right so I decided I'm going to start another business but what am I going to do so I decided to start the inquiry again like I did when I first changed from science into entertainment and I thought I'm gonna call my old business coach what's great doing it has he written any books lately maybe I could pick his brain you know and so I called him up and found out that he was available living in Red Deer and I snatched him up real quick ya know for coffee and never look back but the interesting thing is that we both made change we both changed our mind and so I had to allow myself to call you yeah to go for coffee cuz you're a male and you're not in that religion one of the fundamental yeah exactly one of the fundamental factors then for self-expression is being willing to change our minds being willing to that we don't have to follow our imprints I think we have to figure out what our own beliefs and values are based on our own experiences and what we've learned from them I mean we're all individuals different from somebody else's experiences and the things they believe we have to figure out what's ours and what is baggage that baggage from somebody else and Wesley right which serves us better - getting better into personal growth into being happier and having a more meaningful life so when you take a look at that then you can unless my train of thought again well well dear listener here's what I would say to you is that are the imprints the your beliefs and the things you do in the in the principles their values your morals your ethics are they holding you back from being to fully fully inhabit in your life exploring your self-expression - expanding or doing something different changing your mind you know whether it's something as innocent as a new hobby or something that you know what I'm changing careers I'm done with this career and trying something new or just giving yourself permission to smile and to tolerate other people and to get to know other people and accept the differences between cultures there will be as much racism but do you remember what Gandhi said be the change you wish to see in the world you start from the inside and what who you become will be what you what will follow in your prodigy you know you'll be passing along tolerance and stuff to your your and that'll move and what I think is when you start with yourself you end up you'll help humanity grow right you know so I think it's just a small thing you start with yourself and then it expands other people and next thing you know you have people who may be gay or transgender and they are feeling comfortable to be in their own skin in the world that they are because there's not going to get beat up by some person who has their you know has something stuck up their back end or maybe you're willing to finally give yourself permission to chase a dream that you to actually begin living the dreams to stop just having the dream in thinking about but actually living the dream yeah even giving yourself permission to figure out what your vision is because the results you want right some people just don't know what that is so how can you take the right steps to get where you want to go if you don't know where you want to go cuz you won't even let yourself look at it just to me the real to us it comes down to a key question how will you evaluate success on your deathbed is it gonna be about the toys is it gonna be about your children or is it gonna you know how will you evaluate success on your deathbed I would think this would be our next podcast there will be the next 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