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Repeat company field

nobody's being honest with you about what it takes to start and grow a successful business there's lots of inspiration on social media and the success stories from those who've already made it but what's the reality of actually growing a business like we've created a multi-million pound business we've got a team of over 50 people with offices in london and manchester and an audience of hundreds of thousands but we're only just getting started in this show we're going to share stories that even our teams don't know about we're going to admit to millions of pounds worth of mistakes and we're going to let you follow along as we grow our new game-changing business this is any other business ready ready start about that series but at the time it was just like the ultimate to get to that point but it shouldn't be happening and yet it is every time it's having fantastic launches of new businesses but maybe not always having the operational structure behind them you don't learn when you have a good year setting my goals in the wrong place and doing the wrong things like entrepreneurs curse like they see opportunity confessing to our biggest mistakes in eight years of business is just a warm-up so rob here we are we've made it we've grown a business we've got a reasonable amount of people in the team we've got a brand that people love it's it's all going well there's no mistakes we are pretty much perfect that's not what this series is all about yet we have done a lot of things we've done enough right and it's true we have grown a business and it is going well but there have been times when i've questioned whether that would be the outcome because we've certainly made some shocking mistakes along the way i think we need to be honest about that because it's part of business it is a part of business and i think that's what's so key here is this is almost the purpose of this podcast series is that businesses portray different things it's like okay we're starting off with struggling or we've made it and look how great we were to make it but no one's talking about the struggle in the middle and probably the biggest struggle is in the middle and that's probably because people haven't got time to because they're struggling so much but i think there's this perception in the business world of particularly the people who aren't in this part of the business world that actually it's all glamorous and it's far far from glamorous yeah and you talked about it like being hardest in the middle but i think probably if we look back in the future we're still in the middle like we still haven't done a quarter of what we actually want to do so we're not at the end we're still in the middle and we'll fast forward another year and we're oh we're making a mistake today that we don't realize is a mistake there's going to be more is what i'm saying yeah there are there are going to be more but hopefully by doing this podcast for ourselves we'll learn other people can be entertained by all those silly mistakes that we make some massive mistakes that we've made and they can follow along on this journey learn from the mistakes that we've done and see what else is up in store i don't know why we've started this podcast because it's a bit scary now i've said it it's a bit so let's go back right back to the start and start with what was the very first mistake that you can think of that we've made i think the the very first mistake and you'll be exempt from this one rob is when i first started out in business and the first version of of what we have today existed was i just copied i i went okay so i've been really good in my own job if i just replicate what this company has done it's gonna be great i'm gonna build a really big business that's gonna have a lovely life and and we'll have fun it was awful but why because in theory it makes sense right like if someone's already doing it works why bother reinventing that if it's a model that works you just pick it up from there and put it over there i think i got so much wrong not understanding how just one part of the business isn't the whole business was a big mistake for me so i looked at the sales function of that business and went i'll repeat that and yes that part was good but i didn't think about brand i didn't think about marketing i didn't think about finance i didn't think about admin i didn't think about any of it really i just thought if i do this part well then sales will come in and you just the rest will happen surely and he didn't and for the first two years i was sat in my spare bedroom at a desk wondering when is this going to happen and i suppose even if it does work the best case is you end up replicating exactly what someone else has done right because like there's no reason why you would get any bigger and better than that that's your limitation i mean you are probably going to be second to them as well because they've had that head start and they've learned the lessons and they felt more pain than you so if you just copy someone else the best you could hope for is to be the pepsi to their coca-cola and nobody wants to be pepsi in defensive copying we still do a lot of copying now the difference is i think we copy more broadly yeah so there's nothing wrong with seeing bits and pieces that work in different industries and going oh we can have that and and that's fine because it's all about taking inspiration from different places not just slavishly copying everything about another business in your sector definitely it's taking the very best of another business or another sector and going let's bring that to my sector this is working really well elsewhere but in my industry it's lacking and that that is game changer stuff that when we copied that way was when we accelerated every time we've done that we've gone wow okay we're moving on to another level now but just like you said copying a business for copying sake and copying everything about it that really the business i was copying was just a modest business it looked massive to me at the time but what we have today is bigger than that but at the time it was just like the ultimate to get to that point but i really was setting my goals in the wrong place and doing the wrong things and it was when we started to innovate and start to do things different that the market was giving me little nudges to go that's working like and it's like oh okay wait a minute i'll try this now and it's like oh that's working and the more that we did differently the more success that we had so luckily i was able to stay in business long enough learn that lesson slowly too slowly but eventually learned the lesson and was like okay now i understand and there's more to business than just being innovative but that's something that so many people when they start get wrong absolutely another thing they get wrong is hiring i've done a bit of that as well haven't we we have yeah go i've i again some of these predate my involvement so i get to get nothing to do with me we'll come on to some disclaimer we'll get to we'll get on to some of the awful ones i was involved in as well but if you go back to the very start what were your first hires like i mean nothing against these people but i was so so bad at hiring two of the first four hires persuaded me to hire them so i didn't even hire them they hired themselves i mean how does it even happen i don't well they were just really nice and persistent i have no idea as we talked through this why they wanted to work with me so much based on what i've just told you about the first few years presumably you were out of your bedroom by this point yeah luckily in a very small serviced office or they could have sat on a bed but it would have been a bit awkward but it wasn't just those two the first however many hires i can't remember how long it took me till i got it right but the first so many hires were just poor choices i didn't really vet them properly i didn't go through a strong interview process you know if they had a good handshake yeah you can start i just thought if i get people in i can grow the business and i really didn't treat the hiring process with the respect it needed and it was pain that taught me a lesson because unfortunately when you get hiring wrong it can cause you a lot of pain and it was that pain that was made me actually think you know what i actually want to get really really good at hiring and spend time getting good at hiring and actually it's probably one of the best investments i've ever made how quickly did you feel that pain like could you know on day one oh something's not right a little bit longer than that because you're all in the honeymoon period like someone's just got a new job you've just got a new team member you're like yay it's like oh fantastic everything's perfect and in three months and you're like oh my god they hate me i'm not sure about them like what have we done like we're not culturally aligned like we just got different views on the world like so many differences or actually this person hasn't got the strengths to do that role like there's so many mistakes you can make with hiring it's not necessarily they're a bad person they can be a great person in the wrong role or a great person in their own business like are they going to thrive in what was you know a four-person business you know someone who's from a corporate world might not like that and and then actually as you grow the business people who like the four-person business might not like the 10 20 30 40 person business so it's making sure that you understand is that person going to be right for the journey now and also a little bit into the future as well because if you're fast growing they need to be ready to go to that next level too yeah definitely so those were the hires that you made for the business that you had before we started working together then we started property hub which was the online community bit at that point and had the podcast as well i think by luckily because you'd made those mistakes at the first tires i got to skip the worst of it because by that point you were like right okay we need to have a process we need to have this interview then that interview and it wasn't like amazing but it was better than just like going on the strength of a handshake and the first hire we made was actually pretty good where i think we then went wrong was uh i think it was our second hire but i'm not quite sure um it was a lady who was a referral from that first employee can you remember who i'm talking about i can't but i've got a shocking memory i struggled to remember last week you've done well to blank it out oh my god it's just clicked i know who you're talking about now you had blocked that out i had mentally erased that so basically with when we hired her we didn't do we went back to having no process at all reason being she was a referral from this employee we had who's really good and whenever you listen to any interview about someone in business or read a book it says you know referrals from your high performers are the best source of um of referrals and i think that is true but in this case that turned out not to be true that i think probably the case was that this lady needed a job and a friend was being very nice to her in kind of finding her job with us rather than thinking primarily about the business and whether it would be a fit but i was so bad and i think from memory we then bypassed our process because it was a referral yeah yeah that's it so we we had this process that we thought wow it's worked helped us find the original good person and then we're like oh we're fine don't need this process now save ourselves a bit of work exactly yeah um what a disaster so the you know i think the lesson from that is i it's true referrals from your best employees will probably go on to be your best employees but don't don't suck off the process that got you that first person in the first place because it may be the case that they have been a fantastic performer somewhere else but like you said earlier it doesn't mean they're necessarily going to be a great performer for you so you need to go through that same process completely agree so we did start to grow and we built other businesses because it was like okay we do this one thing well and this would be a complimentary business but we got that wrong as well and one of the things that we got wrong was we just we said right they're going to work together but they're going to be completely separate at the same time as well i mean i don't even know how we can explain this because it's it's just going to seem so daft yeah now you say it it just sounds like a really stupid thing to have i hadn't even dawned on me to say just there and quite how stupid it was but it was the easy thing to do because like you already had a business then we had a business together it made sense to have that separate right because you've already got your thing and then there's our thing so it makes sense to have those separate because it's easy you don't have to have awkward conversations about someone buying in or whatever and then we had another business together which i could have a weak justification for that that needs to be separate because it's quite a different thing but really no there's no justification is there no so the consequence of this was that we had separate teams that felt very separate so externally people would think they'd be working together and probably our best mates but actually they could go weeks or months without even speaking to each other like and to then grow separate cultures and separate team bonding it just when you say out loud it just seems so bad i mean there is some justification if we try and save ourselves to say okay there was a business that was separate that i'd set up and then we'd done businesses together but we should have had that conversation a lot earlier about let's merge this let's make this work and it was only you know i started 10 years ago and we have been working together for eight i think so years so it was only what how long ago that we actually brought it all together i'm gonna say it can't be two years ken it's gotta be longer than two it's a little bit longer it's not a lot but there is it's not a lot longer which is really worrying that we took that long but when we did it made it so much better and then what else we realized at the same time is you've got all these separate teams which is bad but we had all these separate brands as well so we were slugging our guts out to try and build this brand and then build this brand and then build that brand and then someone said to us it wasn't even our moment of going ah we figured out now someone else said to us well you know if you make it all one brand then you only have to work on one brand and then it's like oh no yeah like what have we done it was the consultant who we brought in and he was kind enough to kind of take us through this process and let us come to that realization rather than coming and the first five minutes ago you are idiot this is clearly what you should be doing which he could have i'm sure he could have done that because it was pretty obvious to everyone else but yeah just didn't see it and we had this one brand property hub that was becoming a really strong brand because we were doing pretty good marketing and putting out so much content and everything else and that was becoming a really strong brand but then the actual businesses that made the money sort of sat there in the background and you had this kind of awkward transition from one so someone listens to the podcast or whatever then they want to become a customer of your business but is this even your business is it the same thing is it a different i don't get it it was just it wasn't good for anyone no so we said it wasn't good for the teams it wasn't good for us building the teams but it wasn't good for the customers like you said like they were getting confused like oh am i still like got anything to do with property hub here like you're involved but like we were the con we were the consistent we were the constant between all of them we were that link but beyond that it was hard for people to understand and it was it wasn't even like it took months to make it work once we brought it all together and it was like right now we got this property hub brand this master brand that everyone understands the amount of messages that we got on day one going i can't believe you took so long to do this like this makes complete sense and we were really nervous yeah because it was massive for us at the time rebranding everything and we were like are people gonna take to this and it was day one people were like well guys come on like even we could see this yeah thanks could one of you have mentioned it before this point and saved us from this but i think it was just the convenient thing to do and so we did it and i think there's naivety as well like going back to having the separate teams i don't think we probably realized what the negative effect of that would be and the flip of that how positive it would be once you brought everything together because probably there's about a year-long process of trying to bring everything together in the end because like coming up with the new brand and having a logo for everything is the fun bit and that's quite easy but then actually making it one cohesive team one business is really hard and it took some time and it wasn't always easy but the benefits of that have just been huge now massive and on so many levels like i said it's so much easier for customers but one of the most satisfying parts was probably how the team came together and because you've unified everyone behind one mission rather than going right we've got a mission we've got a mission and you've got a mission it's like hey everyone we've got this mission we've got this vision this is where we're going this is why we suck out every day you know this is why you care as well as us and everyone was like okay this makes it a lot nicer place to work as well and luckily you know a lot of the team because we scaled at the pace that we have have only experienced property hub or the majority of their time with us has been property hub but i feel sorry for those who had to experience it before and we do have a few of those poor souls with us that must have incredible patience because they've gone through all of that and stuck with us and now now they've been rewarded by being a part of a business that it's just not a nicer place to be as these businesses have formed and developed and merged and done all kinds of weird stuff at the wrong times i think we've had a a weird relationship with space and we're talking about a space we're now what is out there well we've kind of been all over the shop and you might as well have been in space because we've we're now at the point where you've got we've got an office in london and an office in manchester and that still causes some issues because it'd be better if everyone's all in one place but there are reasons or at least we think now that there are reasons why those are separate but in the past we've had a lot of people working remotely we've also had been through various office choices in those locations and others and those choices haven't always been the best no i'm starting to notice a theme here but i think i have to take full blame for our first office in the north because london was first and then we've opened an office in the north and the first office we opened was in warrington now why warrington warrington it's lovely the main reason well because i was going to be doing most of the traveling up and down it was the fastest train manchester was two hours 15 and so was liverpool but warrenton was one hour 45. so of course mikey mutes was the most important decision around where we opened an office so that's what that's what we chose and warrington was great but we quickly realized that actually talent attraction is fundamental again you're probably watching this going oh my god of course it is but we just assumed we could attract the talent in warrenton you know in london we never had an issue so we'd never felt that pain to kind of know that lesson and it was like okay wait a minute we're in warrington we are bringing some good people in but the amount of applications that we're getting is like hardly any we then made the inspired choice to move our office to manchester i think again game changer you know it's like london it's just like loads and loads of people joining us but it's not even the locations that we've got wrong it's the the timing of of growth and knowing what space to have like we've kind of grown faster at pretty much every point that our office spaces quickly become out of hand yeah and it is hard to look ahead and project to where you're going to be especially because you don't start feeling the pain until you get to a certain level and then by the time you get to that point because these things move slowly like you've got at least of a certain length or it takes time to find another space and fit it out it could take months or up to a year like between feeling that pain for the first time and then getting out of it during that time you end up with people like literally sitting on window ledges all day not just temporarily like that is their desk they've got their laptop on balanced on their lap that actually happened that happened um people i remember trying to have meetings and like we had we had one room or maybe we had two rooms but if those were full we'd like go and duck into some other spare rooms to see if you could use those and then someone come kick you out and you'd end up just having a meeting in the corridor this went on for months yeah it did again very patient team we we get it wrong today though like london we've expanded and we're so lucky that the office space next door to us became available because otherwise we would have been stuck again in a reasonably long lease going we've outgrown it manchester at some point in the not too distant future you'll probably be able to find out when by following this podcast we're going to outgrow that as well but we're tied into a lease there so it's like wow okay when we know we keep making this mistake and like some of the other mistakes we've made we've learned our lessons yeah but i still don't think we've cracked this one i still don't think we've learned our lesson no i don't even know how you crack it because you could easily imagine making the opposite mistake as well and like signing up for somewhere massive far bigger than you need and then realizing oh actually we're not going to grow into this in the way we thought or we need to have a satellite office instead of having everyone in here you could easily do that and that's a very expensive mistake as well so i don't know if you could ever get it perfect we definitely could have done it better but i don't know if there's a perfect version of this i think if this might just be one of those messy business things that everyone has to deal with wherever especially early on when you don't really know how fast you're growing yeah i think if you're scaling which is a great thing and it's super fun that's going to be a downside a consequence that you just have to live with but it could be worse i'll tell you what is worse starting a business in a field that you are completely unqualified to have any business and get involved in of all the mistakes this is definitely the most expensive by far uh definitely the most painful still feeling the pain of it today yeah after how many years four could be four i was gonna say three but i think it might actually be four yeah um deserves its own episode it will get its own episode that's gonna be painful but we'll get it to an episode i don't want to put you on the spot but someone's going to have to do it you would explain what it was and the logic behind this yeah because again this was my fault because i led us into this we thought that we're in property so we'll do property developments but property development isn't our skill set so we understand a lot i think about property we understand about the economic market cycles around property and we've built great service businesses around property but our strengths are not hands-on development you know that's just not what we're about it's not what we do and the rationale for starting that business was super strong if it worked it would have been brilliant but where it absolutely fell down is i can't change a plug head like i'm just at my limit changing bulbs and then suddenly we've got a development business and we started not with like let's build one house we went let's build 14 and then built and then board of other land as well i'm like let's go and we were great at designing them you know good to that type of stuff product design so we built and we've got a lovely design around the houses we were great at selling them and marketing them really good once they were built we were great at letting them it's just that bit in the middle that expensive bit building yeah that bit that we'd never done before and knew nothing about funny how that was a bit that went wrong really massively wrong yeah and i think the the core lesson and we will do a whole episode on this is understand what you're best at and and work in businesses that complement that again this sounds super obvious but i think because we were having success in what we were doing and it felt like well you know what pretty much every business we're doing launching really well going really well you know of course as we've talked about loads of mistakes as well but on the whole a lot more right than wrong this business was more wrong than right and that's why it was our most costly mistake financially yeah and i think we were aware of course that we didn't know a lot about this so we weren't just turning up with our hard hats and trying to do it ourselves we did hire someone to lead that part of the business but we knew so little about that area that we had no idea how to hire the right person yes or no if they're doing a good job yeah exactly so we could have could have saved a lot of the pain by noticing some of the things that were going wrong far earlier before you end up having to effectively build some of the houses twice which is what's happened yeah unfortunately so and so much more like so much more like that's why it needs its own episode yeah because it wasn't just the mistake of going into it it was then all the individual mistakes once we'd gone into it yeah there are so many lessons from that one but let's i've admitted to enough today so let's move on because i want to share some so next something we are very much jointly responsible for is having fantastic launches of new businesses but maybe not always having the operational structure behind them where it needed to be and this was being too good at launching because when we've launched new products or services the property hub audience is incredible audience and they are so supportive when we've launched stuff but when we've launched stuff we've not anticipated the level of demand it's overwhelmed us and then we've been scrambling around in the background to bring ourselves operationally up to speed yeah and maybe the first time that happened that's acceptable but by the third time just like okay we should know by now the demand is there we know what happens when we're not ready for it so maybe let's build all this in but we haven't and every time i talk to anyone about this and complain about it a little bit oh nice problem to have well i suppose it is in the scheme of problems but it's still a problem and it's a problem because you end up having this great launch and that's wonderful and everyone gets excited but then you end up causing your team a lot of pain and you end up potentially letting down the customers who are your best customers the people who come along on day one and put their faith in you they are the guinea pigs they are the people who bear the brunt they're the ones where the cracks first show when things aren't as they should be and you end up having to deal with that situation and i think we deal with it relatively well to give ourselves credit we should digs we've done it enough times but we sort of we admit our mistakes we act quickly to sort it out but it shouldn't be happening and yet it is every time although i do really feel we've massively learned the lesson on this now because our latest venture which we still haven't launched at the time of putting this out we've been working on well the concept for a couple of years and getting it off the ground and ready before we launch it from start to finish is probably an 18-month project and the most intense part of setting it up was at least six months before but maybe maybe a bit longer basically what i'm saying is we've spent a lot of time and we've really taken home that lesson and done never again yeah and it has to be because what we're doing next is the most ambitious thing we've ever done like so we have to take that lesson and all the others we've discussed to make sure we get this right yeah it's there's just too much risk now to get it wrong again and you can get away with it in the early days and people are a little bit forgiving and if you just you just have only have to make so many phone calls apologizing if you really mess it up but then when you get into the scale of what we're going to do next we cannot get that wrong and i think we are at least aware enough of the mistakes that we've made not to repeat that one again another mistake we've made and we've now corrected because again getting ready for the launch is we were getting distracted by launching too much you know we love coming up with new ideas we love coming up with new concepts and thinking oh let's try this let's try that people are like this but you don't need to do everything we were in that privileged position where we had loads of people who wanted to engage with us so we're like let's start new services let's start new products but we didn't need to and i think it was that lack of focus rather than just saying this could work well we didn't stop to go okay but how's this fit to the bigger purpose of what we're trying to achieve does this take us closer to that or further away and unfortunately we launched some things that actually took us away from what we really wanted to do distracted us sidetracked us for a while and maybe we would be further along today if we hadn't done that but then again we've learned the pain we've had those lessons so we can utilize those lessons moving forward but we ended up selling a business for not a lot of money which again really does deserve its own episode because we got so distracted we had to shut down services because it was a distraction i mean we're super focused now and i think this is what the best business owners found us do is get super focused fortunately for us it took us a long time but we have learned that lesson yeah and just because you can doesn't mean you should and we were in a position where we could do a lot and people were coming along but we because we're talking to so many people we could see all these areas where they're being poorly surfaced oh could do that could do that it's like yeah but we either we're not the best people to do it or we just shouldn't be doing it at all because you can only do so much we're not the only ones you see even massive businesses make this mistake all the time they just over extend or they go off on something that just doesn't work i think there's always that temptation to say oh well this is working in this area let's see if we can replicate it over here but i've you've got to i think do what we are finally doing now which is just really asking yourself over and over again is this a good idea is this core to our business what are the consequences if this doesn't work out all those kind of questions that you you probably ask yourself vaguely in the first place but you have to really be honest with yourself and have that process that takes time so you don't just end up rushing into things that you shouldn't be yeah and it's not just about should we do this product does that take us closer now internally it's like do we make this business decision which people externally might not see does that take us closer or further away is this fun but a distraction like it's getting that focus now it's that important and that's what last year was actually really good for because when they're saying along the lines of like you don't learn when you have a good year and i think we've probably made our biggest mistakes when we've been having the best years like if you look at if you go back and look at the accounts going back years the ones that have the biggest number at the bottom that's probably the years where the seeds were planted for the things that are going to go horribly wrong in a couple of years time because there's just that there's the optimism there's that kind of feeling like you're invincible and you go off and yeah you do these things that you shouldn't do 2020 was such a difficult year for everyone we've had it a lot easier than some but it was still hard but i think actually we ended up as a result undoing lots of mistakes we've made in the past and really getting focused in so we've now got a far stronger platform than we would have done if we'd had a great year last year yeah focus it's such a lesson to take away like focusing on that overall mission that overall purpose and making every decision based on that i wish we'd learned it many years before i'm glad we've learned it now but it's so important for anyone at any stage of a business as you say even big companies still get this wrong and you know what i think it's an entrepreneur's curse like they see opportunity it's like oh we could do this we could do that that new service or this new idea within the business so let's go over this direction it's constantly going oh shiny let's do it but it's not it's getting focused it's having you use the word discipline and i completely agree it's having that discipline because your natural instinct is to go opportunity but you need the discipline to go no what's the biggest opportunity what's the most impactful thing that we can do yeah and that's where we finally got to i think we'd now we used to have because we have a couple of regular conversations every week and obviously we talk most days but we have a couple and in those kind of scheduled conversations we'd always be talking about new ideas yeah but we don't do that anymore because we've got this one big idea that's so big that we just know that well where everything has to be in service of that and because that's so powerful and so motivating that's kind of stripped away the desire so i still have the occasional thought oh we could do this but an immediate no and you need to get that vision probably the the one thing that's big enough to to kind of use that as your north star and not get distracted all the time so why have we created this episode it's not because we want to like some weird beat down on ourselves that gives us satisfaction it's not for that reason the reason we've done this is we want people to understand that people who start businesses are not superheroes they don't get everything right in fact they get loads wrong but they do get more right than wrong or more important stuff right than wrong otherwise they wouldn't be in business but it's okay to make mistakes because hopefully you can get learning by watching things like this or listening to things like this but actually the a lot of the learning unfortunately is when you get a bit of pain and you go okay i've got that pain now move on and you become better as individuals and you become better as a business when you experience a bit of pain but not just accept it go okay now i'm going to use this i want to not feel like this again what can i do how can i learn definitely you there's it's impossible to start out and go have the aim of just getting it right and not making any mistakes it can't be done and however many things like this you watch or listen to people talking about them i said you could even like write it all down and go must them hire the wrong people must think about which office to move to plenty of time you still will end up making those mistakes it it's just gonna happen but the idea is you only make that mistake once we've made them more than once on occasion but you do get to that point where you go okay got it now yeah that's enough yeah no more yeah so if people accept that that you don't have to be perfect because i think that's a problem with today with society is there's social media and everything else is like perfection like or nothing it's like you're either here or there but actually 99.9999 percent of us are in the middle none of us are perfect we all make mistakes in different ways but it's actually going okay that's fine it's okay to be imperfect and it's okay to be an imperfect business as long as that you are moving forward all the time and you're growing so you're growing you're even going forwards or going backwards and as long as with your mistakes their little stalls as long as you push on learn and grow then you're going in the right direction and that's okay so that's episode one done of a brand new podcast and we're gonna carry on doing this and we're gonna carry on sharing our journey not just on what we've done although we're going to cover that off a bit over the next few episodes but just as importantly let people follow along with what's happening as we go through this scale-up journey which is really exciting what isn't as exciting is the next episode and you're going to have to subscribe and make sure you get notifications set up and everything else because you're not going to want to miss this i'm so scared of this episode again this feels like this could be another mistake that we're about to make and we're going to feel the pain by the end of the next episode yeah so confessing to our biggest mistakes in eight years of business it's just a warm up because in the next episode we are we've asked our team anonymously what they really think of us as individuals and we don't know what the answers are no and we found out live in the episodes [Laughter] well we're gonna have to do it now because we just said that we will so fine that's going to be the next episode that's the next episode okay so make sure you subscribe make sure you get the notification bell set up because you do not want to miss that