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so the second part of our guests they have just arrived now and will turn quickly over here to this group here is Natalie from Norway and you are a mother of how many children and all of them are taken for how long have they been taken three and a half months how does it feel for you oh it's horrible I'm believing God he will give my kids back pray praying a lot but it's horrible it's the worst feeling ever and then over here is Amy Jacobson you've been fighting for three years now to get your son back just over three years and how does it feel to be separated from your child for such a long time it's horrible it's heartbreaking you don't really know where to turn to and you know your possibilities are limited through the Norwegian cords so yeah you try to reach out to other places that maybe could make some impact here's Tyler's father you're also fighting to get your son back how is this time being for you I mean three years being separated from your boy it's you know I just go in another world and pretend everything is normal and you know sometimes I pretend that is he still with Damian and you know I just because it's so horrible I can't think that he's with somebody else than his mother just to get get by so yeah I hope somebody will notice this and maybe take our case and and for hopefully we'll we will get him back and I would like to ask Ameche cumson to join us here on the stage Amy and Kevin now Amy you grew up in the United States the first half of your life but your father is from Norway and you moved to Norway then when you were 12 years old and did you experience Norway in the beginning as a positive country did you like to be there was it good for you there's definitely a culture difference I noticed differences in how the people were they were a bit more cold than I was used to for my American upbringing of course that's not all of them so you'll customize and find those people who you find super suit your own life you know I got to be with all my family in Norway so that was very positive and I made lots of friends went to school so yeah up until I had my child it was pretty good and then you had your child and would you like to tell us a little bit more about what happened um so I had my child and cousins son and when he was 19 months old the bonneville came on my door I had just been d'marco about two weeks before and apparently they have been trying to get in touch with me I was in America I left the health station you know the doctors know that I was there so if they didn't get contact that was the reason the walnut on didn't get contact because of course I was not even in the country when I came home and they came to the door they said well you're going with us at the hospital or we're taking your child now so of course if he needs you know hospital attention you know I'm there so we went to the hospital Kevin went as well as a concerned you know father the next day we had told them that you know we had an appointment with the lawyer and about probably not even an hour after they said that they're taking the child so they came in with oh yeah because you know I was on the phone with the US Embassy and the embassy had said well they want me to come in immediately and of course the nurse is in the bomb and they walking in the room when I'm on this private conversation with the authorities of the United States and I'm guessing that was also a major reason for why they were so you know forceful and taking the child we stood in the hospital and we are surrounded by eight people some policemen and we are surrounded by nurses and the balloon man everybody and they say to me we're gonna take your child now and I ask when can I can we see him again we don't know that the bond man says and then I start to argue it's a film on YouTube legal kidnapping which where I filmed the whole scene after a while I got the police says that says that I have to go out from the hospital so I do that while Amy is still with our son Tyler and and while I'm outside the hospital I take taking change clothes to working clothes so it looks maybe like I'm working at the hospital and then I go in and I and I remembered the room they were in when I was discarded escorted by the police outside and I I see Tyler and the police was had left so when I knew that and I go to words Tyler and I take him up and I start running with my son in in my arms and so I run to the car and I put him in the car seat I take on the belt and then I start driving I don't know where I'm driving but you know I I did this as it was an impulsive act so after a while like two hours I in this drive I can't think about anything I just try to be normal you know when he so he doesn't suspicion my son I play with him I go to the store and I buy some food and after two hours I'm just driving on the road like low speed and everything they they had tracked my movements by by by telephone so they had four police cars and it was like police car chase but it was very low speed 60 km/h and in that police chase they they blocked the road with a car so I Drive past that car like carefully and I see a police officer in the ground you know and III detect that he have a stone in his hand and he throws the stone on the car to stop us but you know III don't know what the bonneville have have told the police officers but clearly something very serious so then I remember I went down and I take my hand back so I try to protect my son luckily the stone doesn't hit the window and my child or me 2 inches from the window in a wood has smashed our child so that but like after some minutes then we stop and they take me into the custody and and they take Tyler with them so then I I get in jail for one night because they accuse me of kidnapping my own child no he was found not guilty by the court because this was his own child and as the doctor at the hospital had said it in the court discussion was that Kevin did not endanger Tyler's life by taking him to get a last few moments with his own son so apparently you know even though the ballmount wants you to believe that if you take your child when the bond amount is involved is illegal it's your own child how was that kidnapping can you tell us what are the accusations that one event in haste against you why did they do this Tyler he was as I said earlier he was 19 months and he didn't want to go over to solid foods he was primarily breastfed I was asked by the doctors and nurses to come in about once a month because he should weigh more he had fun not on his weight curb and was getting very little from almost a year old till 19 months which of course as a parent you think okay once a month is what they want but me as well as the father we went in about three times a month to you know see what we could do to help him he was still resisting the child you know protection services offered no help to find a solution or to you know set up a schedule for Tyler you know a meal schedule or whatever they had never observed us the first time I actually met the people who decided to take my child I hadn't met them the day before for one hour and a car ride that's all so you know there's obviously a problem with when parents want to work with the bond amount and they they refuse it and as I said in court cases as well it's like talking to a wall when you ask well what can I do to help and you know to get Tyler home and that we could work with the bonnet on but they don't want to hear it it's like talking to a wall so you know there's really no hope for parents who will get involved with the bottom um are you know trying to proceed with legal action are you talking to them what is your prospect what is the what what can you do now we've exhausted all the you know opportunities through with a Norwegian Court the highest court pasted a lot they declined the case just recently I'm actually in the process of sending it to the European Human Rights Court and I've had wonderful help by international law lawyers from France so hopefully you know there's a slim chance of getting in but you know you have to try what would you not try to get your child together you know to get back home may I ask you but just see what you would like to see how you cope with this situation what what do you do to be able to live with this actually I find that the best thing to cope with this is to try to do something try to be active against what's going on in Norway because at least you feel like you're doing something it gives you a reason to you know how to spend the days and all that energy and all of that frustration said but it's something that's actually useful because this system needs to be changed there's no doubt about it and that it could still be like this after the bun Dario case and they don't even care it's it's a grotesque that they don't even look into the system Kevin you know you try to just I just sometimes pretend that everything is okay and like I think that Tyler is home with Amy and like because you have to to go to sometimes the paradise you know that would be paradise if Tyler was on with his mother and you have to just think that you're there but when reality hits you then it's like you have to do something and make people aware of what is happening and let other stories come forward and so everybody can go together against this cruelty what happens in Norway it's probably hard to believe even for you every time you think of it how often can you see Tyler and how far away does he live from where you are Tyler has been held on secret address ever since they took him apparently they say in court that this hardly ever happens but every single parent I've talked to it's been on secret address which I mean think of parents who just lost their child or even if it was 5-10 years ago you don't know where your child is you don't know how these foster parents actually are you never get to meet them and you know just to get some serenity for yourself that okay you know they're responsible people they're they have good values but you don't you're just left there like a question mark in the bond they don't they don't care and they have a change changed Tyler's name two times just because they are afraid of that we would suddenly know where he is so they have changed his name two times and we have we never we don't know where where he is or and we don't know what what they have changed his name and not only that but you know he's four years old and and is only four years of life he's had three different names can you imagine having a child and all of a sudden instead of Tyler you're gonna call him for a Christian or Jonathan and the child's gonna think you know what's wrong with you that's not my name and they do it repeatedly and they say oh it's for the child's best because the parents can't know where he is god forbid but they they don't think it's traumatizing for a child to keep changing his own name when he's so young and doesn't even understand what they're doing I just think it's it's cruel so if any if a child has to be taken the weight would have to be taken away from an attorney for doing such things but do you see you don't see him at all since actually yesterday it had been 2 years since I saw him last because they were feeling that there was an abduction risk which there wasn't but you know I'm American I have family there they even said in court the judges were seeing in court that oh but Kevin most month that's German as far as I'm concerned and they were saying well there's a lot of muslin in America and I'm sitting there in court saying well I've lived there half my life I've never heard a single person called muslin that's just baloney that's you know what are the judges saying to to point out that Kevin must also have family in America and then Tyler definitely can't visit you know how visitation rights when he doesn't even have family that he's even connected to it's like you know far off never had contact don't even know their names so you know the reasons that even the judges come up with I mean it makes you wonder what's what's really going on in this system what's really going on the system I'm still wandering myself it's it's hard very hard to believe but here you are and you carry this cross and can you what my last question I would like to ask you how do you see the future what is your what is your plan and what is your your hope I mean a quad case the European Court of Human Rights could take a very long time what is your prospect at how do you deal with it with your future the plans for your future what is what you're planning for yourself and how do you see your future life in all of this well as far as life in Norway I don't have a future there I'm officially banned by the bald amounts and not be able to have children I think the same goes for Kevin that you would also not be able to have children so you know I'd never give up fighting for my own child and I'll never be ready to see if it's think about starting a new family without my first child it's just wrong for me so you know until fate takes its toll then we'll just have to keep fighting and and when you know when I got the job and everything I was was happy you know I was working in the oil and finally got a real job and and then everything was okay Tyler was okay he was with Amy I could visit him whenever I wanted to just agree what I mean beforehand and everything was fine workwise I was doing a good job and I could focus on my job as a insulator but when after after what happens happened with the Tyler that they they took him away I was working one day and and this colleague of mine he was he asked he said to me he's not a circle psychologist but he could see that I was in a very different world because you know he could sense something was up with me and it was but you know I worked wise I had to hide it put on a face and you know go work and and do your job but it affects me everyday and I can't concentrate as much at work anymore because I mean that the state of mentally abused me Amy and and our son and yes it's horrible you know it's you can't can't I can't describe it but we have to make make this work and get all the people together which is in the same situation as us and I hope many more will will speak up well I'm very moved by your story and I'm very say it in a way I have to say I feel with you very much and I think that this is I can see for everybody and what we can do now is I think that all the people listening to this and all the people watching this on YouTube that those who do believe in God that we shall pray for you that is that Tyler will come back and that God will console your hearts and I thank you for your strength and testimony that you come to Austria to speak about it I think this is I hope a remedy for Tyler and I hope also for many others thank you so much Amy and Kevin not Natalie will you come and join me please Thank You Natalie is your name very good to meet you I'm starting with them when I start there and just heard about Amy I'm just crying my heart was it's broken and I have lost my own kids for three and a half months now and I am thinking it's was really interesting about what you said about the child's best interest as the CPS are often says said in the when they are snatched tickets I see it very differently I see my kids and other kids are really grieving about their loss over their parents it's so many horrible cases and we are we are many that we are in Norway and we are feels like alone and there it everything is like hopeless and it's nothing to do but I believe strongly that when we are coming together as a group then we can help each other with even with court cases we can as a big group to look at one case I believe that could help yeah my heart was my heart is crying over every child that wants to get home to their parents and they my own son he says mommy I just feel so alone I just want to get home and the Child Services they are like that's recognize the children's grief I'm Natalie it's three and a half months that your kids are gone where there's small children what was their age is from 2 to 4 6 9 and 12 and would you like to tell us a little bit more about what Spanaway nice it that it would take them and where they are now I know where there are four now it's because I have moved a lot I have actually a very good two reports from the CPS about the children's how we are interacting with each other and the siblings in a group the only thing they have that I have moved a lot around and I recognize that and I just they lay it like flat to the CPS and just that that's true so help me with that and they are not helping they yeah then they took my kids instead even though the child the children I have actually have my 12 year old are the best in this class and he's like um his teacher says he's an alpha ha he's a leader in his class and every my three of the kids are really good in school and I want to be a kindergarten cheat teacher the thing is with the CPS there are they are like taking this hammer in my head and like you you need help from us even though I'm I'm like proud because I know I can I know I have great kids and I the schools and the kindergarten are are supporting me actually and the thing with the CPS today they always try to like push you down that's why I cannot take I don't I would take help from many other I who I actually done I am cancer be Michonne it's a mr. Church who helps with the kids and I oh but no it's hard you are taking legal action I suppose and maybe the visibility will help your case so Steven and everybody it's another case to take up um whatever we can do all of us will offer your debt help thank you I just want to say that if it's not for my own case I'm like standing here yeah I I want to like start a group in Norway to like hell we need to help each other then it was it's easy for the state to like go to one one person and like we are feeling hopeless and alone but when we're together as a group we really we really can help each other I believe that let me thank you so much for coming we will now come to an end of this session I'm very moved and I'm sure all of your eyes well that such things are happening in really the heart of Europe and that we that there's in a way silent suffering that many don't know about and it's taking place right now as we speak and for this reason I would like to say thank you to those who took the initiative to bring everyone here and that the new Alliance safe the children is taking up work and I hope that you will be very strong in the future on helping in all of these cases so an applause for Save the Children