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good morning good afternoon or good evening depending on where you are my name is tobias adrian i'm the financial counselor and director of the monetary and capital markets department here at the international monetary fund we are living in transformative times we are poised to see significant changes in cross-border payments thanks to new technology and the determination of policy makers to discuss these changes we are happy to bring you a half day conference on the theme cross border payments a new beginning this conference comprises four sessions that will be streamed on the conference website we are starting this morning with the first session that offers a vision and high level principles this is followed by a second panel with the private sector's perspective then we will move on to the third part which is on policy responses and finally in the fourth session we're going to talk about a concrete roadmap to enhance cross-border payments in this first session high-level policy makers will discuss the advent of new digital currencies and the future of cross-border payments it is my great pleasure to give the floor to the imf's managing director crystalina georgieva who will introduce and moderate the session thank you very much tobias hello from washington to all and a very warm welcome to what i'm sure is going to be a an exciting discussion uh today we have a fantastic panel and a topic that is gathering more attention the future of cross-border payments with digitalization of all aspects of our lives here we are virtually connected accelerated today by covet 19 once a boring subject many called cross-border payments plumbing now it takes center stage in policy making we have a chance to improve cross-border payments with huge benefits especially for many of the world's poorest people and there is a pressing need to do so at the time when technology is accelerating and changing our lives it is allowing us to halt uh work and interact in a way that was not possible years ago cross-border payments still remain slow opaque costly and inaccessible to part of the 1.7 billion people worldwide who are unbanked corresponding banks those providing access to cross-border payments are 22 percent fewer since 2011 and meanwhile remittancy still cost 7 on average more than twice the target set by the un's sustainable development goals fixing these shortcomings will require a concerted and coordinated global effort involving a variety of public and private actors and it is urgent given the need to spur economic recoveries and counter fragmentation particularly postcard 19. we must improve existing systems and we must explore new ones potentially taking advantage of central bank digital currencies coming up with new solutions could bring significant efficiency gains but it could also affect monetary and financial stability widespread use of new forms of digital money could make it harder for country authorities to run independent monetary policy and control domestic financial conditions and as we integrate new technologies we rip off the benefits of doing so we also must contain risks and that can only be done through international cooperation to help us all understand the macro financial effects of using digital money across borders make sure that all systems old system new systems operate with each other foster common settlement infrastructure and make solutions that benefit all countries and all people at the imf we are committed to play our part to foster cooperation and bring together the future of cross-border payment systems and this is why we are here today with a fantastic panel some of the leading policy makers of our time and it is my great privilege now to introduce our distinguished speakers mr ahmed al-khulife is governor of the saudi arabian monetary authority former executive director at the imf his country's presidency of the g20 led the work on the topic of today's discussion culminating in a groundbreaking and ambitious roadmap to improve cross-border payments we have with us mr agustin carstens director general of the bank for international settlements former minister of finance of mastic mexico uh former governor of bank of mexico former deputy managing director of the imf bis will play a major role in carrying forward the g20 agenda to improve cross-border payments i very much look forward to collaboration with bis in this area and we have with us mr mr jerome powell jay power needs no introduction uh as the chair of the federal reserve he provided steadfast leadership in this time of crisis the decisive actions the fed put in place helped tremendously for us to have a floor under the world economy in this conversation on cross-border payments jay represents the world's preeminent reserve currency very fortunate to have him with us last but not least ms nor shamsia governor of bank negara malaysia former assistant director of the imf she helped us make great strides in areas such as islamic financial regulation macro prudential policy and now brings perspective from the helm of bank negara malaysia a region of very dynamic cross-border payments and innovation so let's start the conversation today uh is of significance to the whole uh world and uh of course the u.s plays an incredibly important role in anything that is done in the field of innovation some um 50 central banks are at different stages of exploring central bank digital currencies and i want to ask jay what is your view on the role central bank digital currencies accessible to households and firms can play domestically but also what road they could play internationally for cross-border payments we know that we have had an injection of momentum in this debate to what extent you think that the announcement of the libra in june 2019 has pushed us to move faster in this area jay thank you uh so good morning from washington to my uh international colleagues and uh thank you very much christolina for bringing us together today and i'd like to start by saying right uh that we are committed to carefully and thoughtfully evaluating the potential costs and benefits of a central bank digital currency for the u.s economy and payment system as well as for its international implications we've been actively participating with other central banks and the bis in that work and we feel that that collaboration has been very productive we have not made a decision to issue it a cbdc and we think that there's a great deal of work yet to be done as well as extensive public consultation to be had with all stakeholders before making such a decision the dollar is the world's principle to reserve currency as you pointed out and i assure you that we will be approaching this question with great care that said something like 80 percent of central banks around the world are exploring the idea of issuing currency in digital form the opportunities and and risks presented by cbdc will differ by country and by jurisdiction and the decision whether to issue a cbdc will be made by each individual country so there are several reasons why a central bank might might want to do so for example there are a number of ways that a cbdc might improve the payment system and it is mainly this area that motivates our interest these include basic issues such as faster and cheaper transactions and more complex issues from addressing a decline in the use of physical currency to modernizing payments infrastructure to reaching consumers that have traditionally been underserved by financial institutions other potential motivations are more macroeconomic in nature each jurisdiction will need to think carefully what it what its principal motivations may be and for the federal reserve as i mentioned our main focus is on whether whether and how a cbdc could improve an already safe effective dynamic and efficient domestic payment system unlike some jurisdictions here in the united states we continue to see strong demand for cash moreover we have robust and mature financial and banking sectors and we have a highly banked population so that many although not all already have access to the electronic payments system our payment system is evolving quickly as technology advances for example with the introduction of instant or fast payments both private and public including the the fed now service we think it's important that any potential potential cbdc would serve as a complement to and not a replacement for cash and current private sector digital forms of the dollar such as commercial bank money uh you ask about libra and and i agree that it highlighted the need to improve cross-border payments and generally succeeded in focusing attention on payments related issues including consumer protection cyber security and privacy so it's it's probably too early to say how much labor will ultimately shape the payment system i do think it has caused regulators to think carefully about the appropriate risk management and compliance expectations for emerging innovations and and i would point to the fsb's consultation on global stable coins as a case in point i'll stop there thanks thank you thank you very much jay very thoughtful and i'm sure this is a good uh entry point in turning to shamsia many emerging markets and developing countries are actually worried that foreign central bank digital currencies or global stable coins denominated in a reserve currency could substitute for their own currencies there is there is work going on in this regard and i would be interested shamsia do you see this as a risk you are concerned about do you think that issuing your own cbdc can counter pressures on currency substitution i want to press on our audience here that bank negara has recently announced plans to explore a cbdc how do you see the risks associated with reserve currencies stepping forward this very technical issue well the widespread usage of a global stable point and or cdc dominated any foreign reserve currency for domestic production could cause a material risk to disability of a country's domestic monetary system by undermining the effectiveness of market policy and the ability to support financial stability it is one thing that the impact of such privacy substitution uh may be more pronounced in emerging and low income economies whose domestic currency is unlikely to form part of the results back in a global civil or to be widely used as a foreign currencies bdc so the risk would be further exaggerated for economies with less variable multiple cities record of financial prior stability and underdeveloped payment systems so such gaps could create a stronger incentive among the population of its economies and raise global stable points of be perceived as foreign be more stable so countries will less develop domestic funding and capital markets and higher degree of foreign currency liability could also be susceptible um currency substitution risk so this may create a stronger motivation among the economic agents to acquire to use or retain the global civil coin or economic foreign but before diving into the feasibility of cbdc issuance to combat currency substitutionaries it may be necessary for us to take a step back to first understand what are the key underlying reasons that tighten the country's adversaries risk so as explained by jay um there are many reasons for apprenticeship substitution and that could be due to a variety of reasons from the lack of competency in domestic currency to an underdeveloped financial payment system or even less developed domestic funding markets so depending on the underlying reasons of issuing domestic cbdc may or not may not be effective to counter the currency substitution risk so for instance if the underlying reason is a lack of confidence in domestic currency then issuing domestic cdc by itself will not be sufficient likewise if the underlying reason is due to the underdeveloped financial treatment system issuing domestic cbdc may not be the only solution one could have efforts um to modernize the national payment system um such as implementing a uniform i7 real-time payment system and that would be as effective and to counter the risk of currencies we are having to incur the relatively high higher level risk often associated with the insurance of domestic cpc so given the cross-border nature of global civil coin and foreign efforts by any single country although it may not be sufficient to counter the risk of currency substitution of international coordination and collaboration defined would be key to promote responsible innovation while motivating the associated risk to monitoring and absolutely so any relationship to the issue of domestic and cpc will need to be carefully considered taking into account the underlying motivation and circumstances of particular faction and supported by appropriate same parts to mitigate the i want to talk to ahmed first to say thank you for the leadership you have provided in a g20 context on this topic but my my question to you is about the use of cbdc to facilitate cross-border payments you have piloted with the united arab emirates central bank issuing exclusively to financial institutions is that a promising avenue to explore what is your experience what is your advice to us for the future well uh thank you crystalina and thank you for having me and having me participating with such distinguished speakers on an important and timely issue with we have a project we called it haber with the united arab emirates central bank the aim was to explore the area of the design of the wholesale cbdc and its application in the issue of a single currency in particular as well as cross-border settlement in this experiment six commercial banks have participated the three from each jurisdiction the initiative it was as i said merely to investigate and help us to capture insights into the potential use and any challenges that might be associated with the cbdc our experiment in fact revealed that the technology was viable for cross-border whole whole wholesale payments where we sought to explore how we could potentially leverage the unique characteristics of the distributed ledger technology one of the unique characteristics about this project was using the fiat money this was achieved by commercial banks depositing or pledging actual funds with the central bank and creating equivalent amounts of the digital currency that would then be used uh used to simulate defined transaction times between the two counterparties the use of the real fiat money uh in fact motivated both commercial uh and central banks to think about how the digital currency would be managed in their books and which core banking systems uh would be impacted if such a system were to be implemented the aim of course of the project was to test the feasibility of achieving the business objectives of the dlt one of the main insights that came out of the project of either is related to building its capabilities and knowledge into our poor resource pool in addition the project of course helped us understand that there were many economic and policy considerations particularly in in our area related either to capital movement and financial sector stability that need to be explored further we of course increase the uh payments innovation in sama through such projects the aber project created good opportunities for commercial banks who are key stakeholders of any wholesale cbdc project to have a firsthand experience of using and operating a dlt-based interbank payment solution i am in the view that wholesale cbdc is a topic worth exploring further for a number of reasons first it can improve the architectural resilience of the payment infrastructure uh through relative uh decentralization a second it can lead to improvements in security by using wholesale cbdc's on dlt platform as a backup to the rtgs we believe digital payments including the cbdc in both retail and wholesale situation would be helpful in supporting a safer and hopefully more efficient payment system overseen by central banks thank you well thank you very much uh all uh three interventions indicate that digital money is making a difference and the question is how is this impacting the international monetary system and i cannot think of a better person to answer this question than uh augustine so do you see already cbdc's issued by major countries as a factor to outer the international monetary system and most importantly are you concerned that this could lead to fragmentation are there risks we should be mindful of and how do we deal with them augustine what is your your thinking you have a front seat in this discussion well the thank you very much crystalina for having me in this very prestigious panel it's always a pleasure to participate in all these seminars that the imf a very very very thoughtfully put put together definitely i think cbdc and payments a cross-border payments is a very relevant topic and and to answer your question let me start by by by establishing a few important facts first of all cbdc will always be a national a decision it's a sovereign decision it will be the third type of liability of a central bank and therefore it will respond primarily to a domestic circumstances the fact that for example china sweden the us mexico are at different stages in not not only not not in doing it because with deception of china and not much has been done in other countries but in thinking about it the different stages of the thought process just reflects the different circumstances that each each country is facing and the different need needs that that that they have now in order our analysis on cbdc in particular for the use of general to the general use we tend to establish the equivalence with cash and there is a huge difference there for example in cash we don't know for example who is using a dollar bill today we don't know who is using a one thousand peso bill today a a key difference in with the cbdc is that central bank will have absolute control on the rules and regulations that will determine the use of that expression of central bank liability and also we will have the technology to enforce that those are those two issues are extremely important and that makes a huge difference with respect to what to what cash is uh therefore i think this this lends itself to design carefully cbdc in such a way that they will not be a vehicle for fragmentation for a financial instability and and for spillovers therefore i i i don't think that by by themselves cbdc is a threat to the international uh monetary system uh for example in bishop currency substitution if if an advanced economy issues a cbdc and somebody in a third country wants to to use it it requires it will require the consent of the central bank of the residence of that person therefore the the degree of control will be far bigger now this i think it's it's good news because i think that it really it really provides the ground for us to think how can we use cbdc to to really obtain these higher objectives of facilitating payments internationally how are you going to to make them to reduce costs to to enhance inclusion uh how are we going to to make this route run smoothly that is something that so far we haven't achieved there are many efficiency gains that can be captured and i think our concentration should be there the the the threats to macro financial stability i think are limited and if i understood well shamsha because i the sound was not that good she said that those aspects of macro financial instability are more a reflection of other issues and i tend to agree with her thank you very much well thank you thank you very much uh augustine uh i am uh in your camp i think there are tremendous advantages of moving in this direction from a cost efficiency uh and also accessibility standpoint but it is good to have these conversations that help us to move together in in the right way we i i used to say the future is digital until uh i realized the future has arrived and uh jay you helped me realize that very much in uh in the summer you said uh the following that you do not want to wake up one day and realize that the dollar is no longer a world reserve reserve currency because we just missed a technological change i have full confidence this is not going to happen with you at the helm but can you can you unpack a little bit this this thought um do you see a first mover advantage uh in introducing cbdc uh do you think that technology might put us in a difficult place by by changing the options in front of us how do you think in the fact about uh this technology being already present and pressing on this issue thank you so the sense of that comment was really that i feel that we have an obligation to stay on the forefront of policy and technological innovation and developments as regards payments cross-border payments cbdc all of those things rather than that i felt anything needed to happen quickly or imminently in fact i i actually do think this is one of those issues where it's more important for the united states to get it right than it is to be first given the dollar's important rule globally it's essential that we remain on the frontier of research and policy development the dollar is the world's principal reserve currency and there continues to be large global demand for federal reserve notes there's about two trillion dollars worth of federal reserve notes in circulation and we estimate that somewhere close to half of that value in notes is held outside of the united states use of and trust in the dollar from comes from the reliable rule of law strong and transparent institutions deep financial markets and an open capital account a healthy and efficient payment system demands these features which reach far beyond the merely technological so we do think it's more important to get it right than to be the first and getting it right means that we not only look at the potential benefits of a cbdc but also the potential risks and and also recognize the important trade-offs that have to be thought through carefully we have a responsibility both to the u.s and to the world that any steps taken for u.s cent uh digital currency be taken safely we're absolutely committed to the soundness of the dollar into safe and efficient us dollar payment system so in addition to assessing the benefits and there may well be benefits there are also some quite difficult uh policy and operational questions that need to be thoroughly evaluated and just to mention a few i would mention the need to protect a cbdc from cyber attacks counterfeiting and fraud the question of how a cd cbdc would affect monetary policy and financial stability and also how could a cbdc prevent illicit activity while also preserving user privacy and security assuming that those things can be resolved yes there are potential benefits but it's no that's that's going to take a lot of work and thought we believe so they're not simple questions and the answers are going to need to be comprehensively understood um uh so i'll stop there thanks well thank you thank you jay uh so very important to indeed keep this balance between uh aspiring to capture the benefits for people for the economy but also be sure that we do it right thank you i am so comforted listening to you jay we in this area the public sector is very important and the institutions that hold our monetary system in shape are very important we also see the private sector playing an increasingly significant control we see space for public-private partnerships and i want to turn to shamsia malaysia is part of a very dynamic region private sector innovation plays a significant role how do you see the role of the private sector from where you sit with regard to solutions to cross-border payments is there something that you have learned in in asia in malaysia that is valuable for all of us the private sector has an important role in driving definitely the private sector has an important role to play in private information and doctrine of efficient or smaller payment solutions on the supply side for example uh private sector investment and diamond reserve would be critical to foster continuous improvements and innovation to cross-border payment solutions in commercially sustainable manner on the demand side of the private sector players can also support migration to more action payments and solutions to their frequent interface with and better understanding of end users which may contribute towards better solution design that addresses prevailing pinpoints so even though cbdc private sector payers could have an important role this may include conducting dyc distributing easy managing transaction reports and providing overlay and value value-added solutions to serve the different needs of the customers at the asean level we continue to strive to realize the vision set out in the asean economic community between 2025 we said to be a highly integrated and cohesive economic region so in realizing this vision efficient and safe cross-border payment has been identified as a key enabler and a priority area if we obvious um ongoing efforts have been made to enhance the efficiency of cross-border payments to the interlinking of real-time retail payment system which will serve as a more efficient alternative to conventional gaming methods and to foster an enabling environment for the establishment of regional human the working committee on our payment and supplement system have developed what we call the asean payments policy framework together with implementing implementing policy guidelines so this framework sets up the vision of asean payments integration and the roadmap for the establishment of interoperable cross-border real-time retail payment linkages with at least five asean countries be linked by 24 but taking into account the diversity of the asean countries and the varying state of readiness of members the participation in this original linkage is on a bilateral and voluntary basis so we have also developed value principles and policy concentrations in and establishing a common relative approach common standards to facilitate interoperability and where possible local currency settlement to enable better management of expression costs so we have made some progress on describe uh so one that i can recall is like for example uh the cross body tech payments between malaysia and singapore has been linked so that will enable the malaysian customers to be able to use that part in singapore as thailand and singapore have also linked to enable the cross-border payment that would allow users to make cross-border qr payments uh starting from the first quarter next year and similarly um have also in agreement um to launch the inter-operable qr linkage between cambodia and thailand so um we have uh i think that's for under thank you thank you shamsiya and i am very sorry we do have a bit of a difficulty in the connection with you but i hope that it people were able to follow your very interesting illustration and i'm very keen to hear also from augustine augustine you created the uh innovation hub this is uh a very bold step in a direction of moving bis in the front of these discussions what is your experience so far how do you see the hub fostering collaboration between central banks and also bringing this public private collaboration to serve us on this fascinating journey what has been the experience so far where you're headed next thank you thank you very much alina for asking this question well we are the one called the central banks and the fact that the the board decided to launch the bis innovation hope is an expression of the conviction of central banks of the importance of financial innovation it's a we are we are right now we have three innovation centers singapore hong kong basel and we are going to open five more in in in the with the partnership of tcb with the with the swedish nordic case it's central banks with the a with the bank of england bank of canada and a special partnership with the federal reserve system basically the our mandate will be to scope a technology and identify which technological developments will be of importance or of essence for central banks to get familiarized with second to try to identify what are the public goods that they that could be developed and exploited to facilitate a central bank activity but also to fulfill the roles of central banks in terms of payments financial stability and so on and so forth and third to create a network of experts just to keep central banks uh on the lead in these aspects a agenda of topics are for example cbdc fintech tech different parts of payment systems issues of identity and eventually we want to be a real catalyzer for action and be a a nucleus for cooperation and collaboration if you want cbdc to really make a difference in the payment systems we need a lot of cooperation in the areas that have already been pointed out and and i think that we need to to bring the different parts together the the the the vis is is working in this direction not only through the hub but also through the cpmi which is a all the collaboration of different areas of central banks in payments and also in research now that doesn't mean that we need to to to do this as a central bank only issue there needs to be collaboration uh with a other areas like in the fsb and needless to say to have very close collaboration with the with the imf would be of the essence so we are we are looking forward into it we are responding to the need that central banks are facing in this area and what i think is very significant is that the the hope is an expression of a central bank's conviction that they that that that the central banks need to be in the lead in these topics thank you very much thank you uh indeed this is a very clear indication that uh you have no intention to leave the innovation in this area uh entirely and only in the hands of private sector very clearly you're taking uh the lead in that and i would be interested uh jay uh how you see it clearly central banks uh may have to regulate uh private sector firms there is space for partnership uh there may be uh need to counter with independent solutions what the private sector is coming up going back to to libra how do you see remaining on the front of these developments what is the fat thinking in that regard and how do you see your collaboration with the bis uh augustine mentioned the special partnership with the federal reserve system so how do you see this new frontier uh and what role you play at it thank you so uh let me start by saying that we strongly support the work of the innovation hub and would stress that it's it's very much geared to creating public goods we will have lots of uh conversations with industry and stakeholder engagement um and that'll help us in our work on us on digital currencies and cross-border payments um we need to work collaboratively with the private sector and we also understand there's a need to do ways that foster development of public goods so the private sector is likely to be able to contribute through technological innovation the public sector brings a perspective that seeks broad public benefits and with payment systems there are going to be potentially large network effects that create increasing returns to scale meaning that we may well see over time emerging a small number of dominant players and ultimately great difficulty in competing with those players indeed that is what we see with a number of the tech giants today in in their in their existing businesses away from payments um we do need to collaborate with the private sector to best achieve our goals and we're very mindful of the challenge challenges of doing so and yes we can be and we must be on the forefront of research and policy development development so the fed has been working for a number of years to better understand the opportunities and risks presented by technological innovation we're taking a multi-disciplinary approach to these issues bringing together economists policy analysts technologists lawyers and others to tackle the subject from multiple angles we've been able to harness the strength of the federal reserve system with our 12 reserve banks and the board of governors to help us gain a more well-rounded view of the topic so for example to further our understanding of the capabilities and limitations of different technologies and platforms we've been engaged in a number of research projects one set of experiments is being carried out at the board of governors here in washington dc complementary efforts are also now underway for example through the federal reserve bank of boston which in collaboration with researchers at mit is developing a hypothetical central bank digital currency these types of experiments advance our understanding of the risks and benefits of cbdc's measuring trade-offs between different designs and system arrangements and assessing security risks on the policy side we're also actively engaging with a wide variety of stakeholders from government academia in the private sector to gather different perspectives and expertise about potential cbdc issues the range of design options and other considerations we anticipate expanding this dialogue to ensure that we're developing a broad and inclusive understanding of these issues in all of these efforts collaboration with other central banks around the world continues to be vital thus we continue to offer strong support for the research efforts of the bis the innovation hub and in particular for the group of central banks around this bis that we've been working with to evaluate costs and benefits of a cbdc so we think overall these efforts position us to be able to engage proactively with a wide range of parties on rapid developments in these areas and as you mentioned we're doing so within the framework of serving concurrently as supervisor payment service provider and issuer of the currency central bank money and private dollar deter denominated money particularly central bank money sorry commercial bank money effectively fit together in the current payment system so any cbdc will necessitate roles for the public and private sector thanks thank you very much jay this is uh fascinating uh the speed with which central banks the fed are moving in this direction of making sure that the public interest is protected and is best served with the developments we pursue and talking about public interest one of the aspects of our conversation today is about inclusion what can be done so those who have limited taxes or at this point of time no access whatsoever to the financial system we are describing can be included how improving cross-border payments can play a role and to what extent we can venture in technological improvements that can accelerate this process of inclusion more specifically digital id if we are imagining a world in which digital is the way in which financial transactions take place how could poor people especially poor people in poor countries can be part of it and ahmed i want to ask you this question you have given a lot of thought to it especially in this year of leading the g20 so how can we get there do we need to put more emphasis uh on the issue of reliable national id systems how do we make it so that we walk on on two legs uh the on the financial side but also on the id side well indeed uh one of the very important goals of improving cross-border payments is to enhance financial inclusion in our region in particular for the reasons uh for a number of good reasons in fact but a key hurdle to greater inclusion would be the lack of comprehensive and reliable what you call it the identity system whose information can be trusted in other jurisdictions i agree that offering such a system has to be a corner store stone of global efforts to improve both national and cross-border payments the establishment of identity systems in the cross-border which is uh probably remote is clearly linked to streamlining the kyc and the customer due diligence processes in the domestic level in saudi arabia we are working on a national eky system which harnesses our national identity system through the kyc ecosystem the critical factor is how national systems i.e national identity and kyc information can be harnessed in the cross-border context and trusted by all uh parties working with the financial stability board and the cross border payment coordination group of of the committee on payments and market infrastructures where the the cpmi we have identified uh this objective as a specific building block in the roadmap to improving cross-border payments uh this initiative will require extensive coordination among government agencies and financial institutions as well as support from multilateral organizations such as imf the financial costs of developing national digital id and building shared kyc and digital id infrastructure may also be significant and this will prove a challenge for emerging market economies to fund particularly in the current environment in the current economic environment thank you yeah thanks very much ahmed a lot of work to be done and it has to be done recognizing that we are interconnected we do need to work together uh and i want to turn to augustine augustine how do you see us building a strong foundation for the whole world moving in this direction together in other words interoperability common standards consistent legal framework what role do you see for institutions like yours and like mine to make sure that we make progress in a way that brings the world uh together uh well thank you very much crystalina i think both institutions can play a tremendously a constructive role i mean i think if we think in the international dimension a huge huge challenge is to assure that the international operability of cvdcs is is is there and this is a huge task a lot of coordination will need to take place in the areas of technology in the legal areas we also have to think what are the economic functions that we want cbdc to play internationally what are the implications for exchange rate decisions for example or or exchange or exchange currencies what are the implications of that uh therefore i think that to reach a to to manage to define the minimum set of standards that are necessary to to really have a inefficient operability of payments on the the the new uh dimension i think is huge and it requires to to bring all the forces together i i think something that the j said at the outset that the outlook of the effect is if i i use different different words it's a this is a type of issue that we need to go slow because we are in a hurry and precisely we need to go slow to avoid mistakes and we have to realize that the when we deal with payments inter payments electronic payments there is no room for mistake i mean if i want to send payments from switzerland to mexico i would not tolerate the mistake and nobody should tolerate the mistake and all what can can go wrong is is there many many dimensions so the the challenge is huge and therefore the effort behind being successful will be huge and therefore we need to to add a forces uh with with a broad membership of the fund uh with the membership of the bis in particular uh the concentration of central banks i think that we can certainly put a very solid team together to make this happen the fsb has been and the g20 has been a very important catalyzer already so there is there is room for everybody to collaborate in this huge endeavor thank you very much yeah thank you thank you very much uh itaikku's very very much what uh jay also said about the importance to do it right rather than to do it fast and this getting it right um go slow we are in a hurry uh is a message i think would resonate with many india in the audience but go nonetheless and get to the right destination we we recognized um saudi arabia for placing the issue of cross-border payments at the center of its presidency when it comes down uh to how we can make the financial system work better and especially for the more vulnerable uh people so ahmed i want to finish by turning back to you you're going to pass the button to the next g20 presidency what would you ask italy as they move into their role to do in this area what is your legacy that they need to embrace what next well uh the g20 has created a special group uh to look into cross-border payment reforms this time the saudi g20 presidency wanted to do more we wanted the major economies to agree upon a road map that focuses on the issue that is most hindering the safety and efficiency of the payment systems namely the cross-border elements of the international transfers this roadmap features an impressive set of building blocks with implementable steps during our october meeting of the all the g20 members successfully endorsed the g20 roadmap to enhance uh what we call the cross-border payments the various building blocks lay out different tasks in particular for a range of international institutions and bodies that will be invited to report periodically to the g20 on their progress with respect to implementing that roadmap they include of course the fsp the standard sitting buddies uh the committee on payments and market infrastructure uh the imf uh the world bank and the fatif uh the periodic reporting across the future the g20 presidencies including the next italy will ensure that this work continues the g20s political endorsement will secure the momentum to drive the work forward and uh let me use this occasion uh to thank all the national and international bodies uh who worked tirelessly and cooperatively in the g20 this road map and also i thank italy for taking this further in the next year presidency thank you well thank you thank you very very much ahmed are you encouraged by the discussion we just had do you see that there is a momentum going forward that you helped accelerate yes absolutely and i see i see uh jay and uh uh shamsia and augustine nodding fantastic conversation i i want to thank you for sparing some of your time we are in front of an open window of opportunity with the chance to have a long-lasting positive impact by improving cross-border payments by enhancing financial inclusion uh we at the imf will do our part we recognize our responsibility as a an institution with now 190 members during this annual meetings we accepted andorra our newest member and we will partner with bis with fsb and of course with all our members so we can make a progress mindful of the uh complexities uh just to mention one cyber security that um jay uh flagged in his intervention cooperating we will make progress we will get there so thank you bravo very very uh interesting uh discussion first of the additional work that would be done today stay tuned the conference continues there are three more panels on the future of across border payments they would be streamed on the conference website so join me in thanking the panelists it is hard today to do so because we are in this big virtual room so on behalf of all of those who have tuned in thank you thank you thank you [Music] [Music] [Music] you