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[Music] you were in a cult you got out these people by your definition seem to be in a cult how did they get out what kinds of things should people be saying cuz we all like banging our head against the wall to figure out how to get through to people who are in the cult of Trump what's your advice for trying to get people out of it right so thanks for making that point and I want to state categorically that the natural or the normal reaction when someone finds out the friend or a loved one is getting into Scientology for example or is getting involved with some multi-level marketing scam is to want to shake them and say hey it's a cult you're being brainwashed and it usually has the opposite effect of making people more defensive and driving them deeper in because they've already been told they're gonna be persecuted so what I'm advocating in my book is that the the family and friends who have loved ones who are believing totally in Donald Trump and that whole the whole ideology of trumpism they need to start reaching out and reminding their loved ones of happy family memories bring out photos and videos agree not to even talk about politics at first if you've broken off all contact for an extended period of time and find common ground where you can talk together now another technique that I teach my clients when they're trying to help a loved one in a cult is you can't make them leave or talk them out of it you can encourage them to reflect and analyze and reevaluate and change their own minds and the easiest way to do that is by explaining mind control which on the influence continued looks at behavior control information control thought control and emotional control and I have this all listed in the cult of Trump book but also talked about another group that they would agree is a destructive force or a destructive cult and with people who are in trumpism Chinese communist brainwashing is what I advocate a discussion about and it's very interesting that while China is doing programs on over a million people in their own country they're accusing Hong Kong of brainwashing the students to protest them and so what a whole discussion of what is brainwashing and the reality is is when I was head of deprogramming in 1976 what helped me get out of the Moonies was understanding Chinese communist brainwashing criteria Robert lifts and wrote the seminal book on the subject and outlined eight criteria of brainwashing or mind control or he liked the term thought reform and I've taken my bite model and based it on his model and it provides the behavioural mechanism to this look at facts and then to self-reflect how did I ever come to believe in this like go back in time how did I come to believe in muunour how do they come to believe in Trump and kind of with a perspective look at the techniques of influence that were being used and I would say categorically the universal mind control technique that all cults use is phobia indoctrination the installation of the irrational fears that if you question the leader or the doctrine or the group or want to leave terrible things are going to happen to you so in the mind of someone who's undermine control they can't imagine leaving they can't imagine changing their mind and being happy and fulfilled they can only generate negative scenarios charm Wow well that that is fascinating I wish that we had more time to get into this but for people who are interested in learning more about the cult and especially as you were talking about if they have family members they should look into the cult of Trump as well as your other books combating cult mind control and freedom of mind Steven Hassan thank you so much for joining us today yeah thanks love to do it again John I like your work let's talk soon thank you [Music] thank you for watching this clip from the damage report for more content from the show and access to TYT Network members only exclusives go to T y-t-dot-com slash Brooke wait no it's t whitey calm slash John go to t y-t-dot-com slash John to sign up