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okay thank you all very much for coming it's nice to see so many faces here I'd like to begin just by welcome you on behalf of the Swiss reinstitute tech transformation team and the various teams representing Swiss Re in the UK here for you today it's get used to this how many circles I'm not gonna fall off I don't think we've done this on purpose because history has a proud history of more than 150 years but we're trying to do something a little bit different today and we've used this 360-degree environment to create a more immersive experience and we think it'll help us to to be a bit more open and intimate in the dialogue as we talk today about about the transformation of our industry the way we've been understanding and identifying and assessing and pricing risk it's starting to change I think we'd all agree it's historically we've been quite successful with this looking in the rearview mirror type approach where there's lots of data and we can just analyze risk that way but with the advent of new risk pools emerging pretty much on a daily basis the old methods don't really work so well so you know we can't spend so much time looking backwards we have to look at the new new which has no data in different ways and and we now have tools at our disposal tech driven very data-driven tools that are allowing us to do that so what we want to do today is begin by asking ourselves a question what is this next generation of underwriting to begin that we're going to start a journey which is kind of starting today here with us we're going to take several months over it but we're quite proud of the fact that we are starting here and now in London and that that journey is to explore the modern way of underwriting it's it's kind of appropriate because although London is steeped in tradition it's been three four hundred years worth of history the London's also a bit of a center now for inshore tech hubs starting and we think this interesting combination of tradition and technology is really going to create a kind of interesting dialogue and dynamic for us here so what we've done today we've gathered about 20 experts from internally and externally they're experts in in in Shore tech and in technology underwriting and insurance strategy and they're here today to help us begin this exploration and understanding of of how we change the insurance value change chain so now I'm it gives me great pleasure and quite a lot of relief to be able to say that I'm getting a lot of help this afternoon I think I think she tried to settle my nerves a little bit at lunch time by saying that she'll only broadcast to an audience of up to 300 million people I can't think we're going to be okay today I'd really like to welcome on stage and introduce you to to the BBC broadcaster Victoria Fritz thanks very much Simon hello and well this is new I have to say I'm normally in 2d something a little bit more like that I'm used to a cameraman and that's about it so not only to appear in 3d but it feels more like 4d being on this kind of octagonal stage that's a little bit new for me and so the reason we're here today put minutes down here and because we're all talking about the next generation of underwriting what that really means and and what it means to move from something like risk coverage which is something that we're all more familiar with in the room to something more like risk prevention we've talked already a little bit about journeys unfortunately you might hear that a few more times over the course of today how do you make that journey where do you start well the first thing you need to do is to set the scene we need to try and understand what these issues are what is a tech driven insurance sector look like who's already in this space who's doing well who are the laggards who's behind and how do we make that change how do we get to where we want to be and be competitive in five to ten years time so in terms of the program you can see it's on your computer screens all the way around you and what we're going to do now is we're going to do our first session and this is very much hearing from people who've got different specialist all across the space and we're gonna hear from them about what they think are some of the drivers for sort of a tech driven insurance industry and you know what are some of the key challenges as well because lots of people have been talking about this but trying to get talks like this and what we're doing here today into an 18-month transformational program that is quite new and quite different so we'll do that first then don't worry that we'll have a little break there'll be an innovation session where we'll talk about some of these ideas taking them into practice what that means for you then you can get some coffee and revive yourself and and then we'll talk about our second session after the break which will be about a kind of an outsider's point of view who's already working in this kind of space we're talking about ecosystems and what that means for everyone in this room what can you learn from other industries other people and what do they see when they're looking in at your industry where do they see the challenges where do they see the opportunities what can you learn from them and what collaborations and partnerships can you get going from today and take forward into your business so it gives me great pleasure to bring up my first panelist up onto the stage we've got dr. Luka Mary Getty who is gracefully standing in today he got the call and this morning saying could he please take the session because someone was sick I hope he chose the bowtie regardless so irrespective I should say of his appearance today very natty and we've got Haley Robinson who has been in this industry a very long time at a very big company some really big insights into what's going on there and we've got Jaclyn McNamee who's just set up a new company we're about two years in a year and a half in here and a half in so a very different perspective and we'll try and work out why she moved from a big player to a small player and see what happens there and we've got Eric's shoe as well he's going to be bringing his insights so please could you join me on the stage thank you [Applause] so if anyone wants to know more about the good folk we've got up on this stage here it is all in your brochures with the exception of Luka who you're just gonna have to look as it LinkedIn profile I suppose and so right let's start off this session we are really living in extraordinary times I mean I think when we look back at this period in history you know our children and our children's children will be talking about the next Industrial Age we're talking tech I mean it's transformed so many aspects of business of society of culture and yet from an outsider as a broadcaster it appears to me that the insurance sector seems like a little bit of a laggard and I don't know if you in the room would agree with that or whether it perhaps suits you to stay as you are we'll be discussing that so our speakers today have been thinking about how much the industry has been transformed to date by tech and by the digital age and what more could be done so I think we'll start with you Haley if we can how far do you think we are on this journey I think if you compare us to other industries we're actually at the start of the journey and you see the evolution of other industries and realize I think as an industry where Lagarde's I think within our industry though there are parts that are further forward and you know technology driven underwriting has been in personal lines for 20 years you can get a quote online now without asking a single question so there is the innovation and technology I would say supporting personal lines that's starting to move into SME where the real lagarde are is mid-market large and complex risks and you still see people walking around with slip cases in the London market which is quite archaic in in the current world so some progress it's coming but we are behind other industries I would say now look you've been working at different companies you I know you were at McKinsey for a while your head of transformation here I mean would you think that do you think that that's fair do you think you are a Lagarde I think technology's impact insurance and in a way that is different from most other industries so it happens alongside two axes one is the way we manufacture the problem the the product if you want okay and there is about acquiring technology and data sets and change changing the processes that we use from underwriting to policy issuing claim settlement and alike so that is the operational part so these are not happening there but also a number of problems that not have not been solved yet things such as and writing recognition you think it's soft it is not and that is proving a problem small things a kind of an obstacle and then there's another aspect which is technology is changing the nature and size of risk pools every industry is affected insurance is involved in every industry so that is coming at with a time lag and only now we starting to realize what it actually means so that is natural happen in literally later a few years later and the rest so I so now having said that it's not like everybody in insurance industry would say technology economy we jump on it there's a lot of fear and a lot of lack of understanding of what it actually means and there's a lot of educational works that needs to be done in order for people to appreciate what you can do with it Jaqueline listening to that I wonder whether I don't know I might be wrong or presumptuous in saying this weather perhaps some frustration in the speed of change might be one of the reasons why you decided to move from AIG and and start up your own firm yes it does I think the speed of change I think I do I will acknowledge what Haley and Luke have said I think technology is on the bus I think it's on its way I don't think the bus is quite landed here yes and I think the awareness is building by just having the forums that were participating in today building that awareness I do agree with the is certainly what I've encountered in the last couple of years in setting out to raise financing to start a new business and to the journey that we had going live earlier this year you know there is a variety of attitudes out there because you said some people thoroughly embraces people are resisting it and some people dismiss us but I think it's coming and I think the reason it's coming is because the opportunity has been quantified I think there is a real appetite for change out there whether it's in the distribution chain from our broker partners or whether it's direct from customers and customers are going to demand change in respect to how they deal in their personal lives as well as actually how their own businesses are transforming I also think it can be accomplished because I thoroughly agree with what Hayley said in relation to it's been done before and very administrative bureaucratic industries like the banking industry and what FinTech brought to kind of keep poking the pace of change in the banking industry personal lines did endeavour on their journey in I think was 1986 when when it started in relation to slash-and-burn and getting rid of unnecessary cost and then followed it followed it up with going on line in the 90s and now really embracing date and modeling and data analytics a lot of that and we in Bologna will probably talk about the how later on we are embracing that model we're embracing kind of that the model of personal mine's done has done and you can do it we can deliver in a year it doesn't take 20 years to accomplish the speed of change so I think there's a lot of good lessons out there in respect to learning but it has to move and it has to move at Pace because everybody else and all other industries are transforming around us and we have to capture that opportunity and not be not be afraid of us Eric are you as optimistic generally extremely optimistic I think if if there's a point to make where we are lagging behind I would say that we are sometimes lagging behind in the actually consequence of doing things so if I if I think of when I was working at a bank here in London almost 20 years ago and technologies like email and whatever I of course existed I had to call clients every day right and I had a list on my screen and I could click the email and then the phone would dial a number and I would call the client or leave a voicemail and basically what my boss told me is that you do that every day that list of clients a few years later you had blast voicemails is that ok you record once a week or whatever when you have something to say one of these voicemails will automatically be distributed to clients they'll get your message they can then choose to ignore what so I think sometimes I feel in other companies we just an implement things very quickly whereas my experience in the insurance industry is that there's often a bit of a debate and there's always a good reason why not yet and maybe that's also because sometimes in the past there's been a time where good ideas and insurance tended to mean loss making ideas that cost a lot of money and but personally I think maybe there was a bit of a thing like that a few years ago where there was maybe just a statistical accumulation of a few things that just didn't go well but but you can't just keep your head in the sand it's just because there were a few mistakes I mean this is not failing faster absolutely now and in order to get the most out of this session and we're asking everyone if you can please contribute as much as you like we've got two microphones that we'll be doing at the rounds as one over there there will be another one nearby so please do get involved with your questions there is also a hash tag as well so if you want to take part in this discussion online as well that is also just as valid so please do ask questions feel free to ask whatever you like we want this to be challenging we want this to be a debate if you have something specific to your business that you would like to ask some of the panelists that's absolutely fine and in terms of I just want to pick up on something that you said there Eric about sticking your head in the sand and innovative ideas perhaps being seen as loss-making I wonder whether there is a genuine appetite to change in the industry because there are a lot of vested interests in the status quo yes I agree but yet it's it's it's excuses right because I have yet to come to a client meeting where a client would not for every great idea that's with three things we were bringing to the table of course not it's a negotiation and all that right but if I if I just look at the session that will follow this one on solutions which is what I'm responsible for 2/3 talking about smart analytics parametric's automotive safe homes cyber doesn't need to solve these problems I mean this is the world we we live in it's simply the problem to be solved today then what we are trying to achieve as a business as an industry is of course growth and higher margins and better efficiencies but the world around us is quiet technological right now and that is something if we don't tackle it I mean somebody else will do it in fact somebody in the insurance industry will tackle it better and Aras will will tackle it worse and then you will have winners and losers so you know in a way you don't have to do anything it will happen I'd say the question is where do you want to play on that curve you want to be a handover you want to be behind it's too far ahead is also risky I think this is the skill probably that you have to have yes certainly yes and just out of interest a show of hands who has tried to develop a sort of a tech driven solution in their in their business just out of interest who's trying to do this kind of thing already ok so quite quite a number of people and just I saw I saw you put your hand up there what kind of what kind of response have you had in your company to trying to implement change if you could just let me know where you're from as well it'd just be interesting to hear your experience from each other my name is Alessandra will be part of the last session and I'm I'm working in an IP provider but I needed the innovation companies and my group so being the responsible the innovation they had to let me go and try so so let's say the company believes that innovation and tech a driven solution are key to follow up the digitalization and role or the other part and but let's say that if what is difficult is to to be less empirical and to be more practical because on paper many technologies for digitization are great like I struggle a lot with blockchain I try I think we all take three years to build you know to apply blockchain you know for something useful and I failed so blockchain is now part on the side so so I see him I say good good responders from from the market and from my company when it comes to technology like official intelligence or when you bring the efficiency you bring the speeder you bring the you know you speed up the you know the time to market or your products you better know your customer you build something tailor the experience you know so this is these are valuing benefits the company can compete while with blockchain no idea which benefit I could I could bring on the table to to embrace it but but yes I've found a good good support but but of course you need to bring back also results and the innovation I technology Dishman are not to bring in a business case I resided some very fast no but then look at the likes of Amazon and Google you know might have taken them some time but then look at the scale they've achieved thanks very much Heather Sandra and Hayley I was just interested in your thought as we were hearing from Alessandra about trying to implement change in it in a big company how easy is that because we were talking over lunch about how lots of the bigger companies are really the amalgamation of lots of smaller companies and they have their own culture their own heritage their own way of doing things and it might be quite difficult to roll things out across a group um I think I think it is difficult I think it is difficult in any large organization with a legacy and when you have companies that have merged a number of times you know you have companies with systems from 1979 I work for one of them and and they don't talk to things that were built in 2018 so it can be really difficult to implement change and that's why I think that's one of the biggest challenges for the insurance industry is how do you keep your current business going because there's a lot of value in that business and that drives the profit currently at the same time as moving yourself forward and modernizing and I think that's the thing we're all trying to to work through in the in the best way possible but it is hard you know the lady over there talked about you need a business case you know finance director wants to know if I'm spending five million what am I getting in terms of increased revenue and profit or or efficiency and sometimes you just have to say to people it's a leap of faith and I think with data and analytics it is a leap of faith you can't afford not to do it but it's really hard to show a business case on some of these things just out of interest who in the room has tried to go with a strategy like this to the CFO maybe of their company that the the money man or woman should we say and and sell them in this idea I mean what sort of risk section have those ideas been getting in your companies I have there's a lady at the back with the with curly hair in the glasses thank you hello Janet Henderson I'm from Britt so I'm on the underwriting side and we have been trying to move along we are making some good progress and my financial director is actually quite open to these ideas but I think there's a fear factor from the embedding the change of the things but there is also we just can't afford not to be doing this you mentioned Amazon earlier on they're taken on banking they're gonna take on insurance there there are eating our lunch we have to get on and do this there is no excuse so it almost doesn't matter well they say you have to have an enlightened hopefully finest director and board who will realize that we just have to do this there isn't a choice the longer we stand around and debate it they're more behind we will be and another interesting thing that we've been trying to discuss will there be is such a thing as brokers and insurers separately well would just be insurance companies because you know the insurers are worried they're just capital and brokers are getting more innovative from that point of view and brokers are worried that insurers the same well we can go direct to market so do we really need you I think everybody has money to be added but we just need to pull together as an industry and get on with it really all right I saw you putting up your hand as well I couldn't agree more that the internal I mean there's a range of ways you could do it right you could put things into a lab and and treated us you're willing to spend money on something and if something good comes out fine right the other extremists you do business as usual and everything just competes on the marginal profit that it generates now if you do the lab Spanish I think you should do an element of that but if that's the only thing you did the problem is that at one point you have to convince the business to adopt if you only do the other thing where everyone competes along the same sort of measures of course you never innovate because there will always be a bigger deal that is more standard in a cash cow today so you have to go into this painful area of doing all of this in between and to me I don't find it contradictory it's it's just it's just painful for the people who are doing it being at that space it's not necessarily fun it's it's it's painful and as long as it works you're there and if it doesn't work you then you know you will be an external expert not an intern anymore yes that's tricky but to me the way you could break this is in in that we don't call these things always have nothing wrong with research but research in my mind is where we take money in order to acquire new knowledge which is required right research universities innovation to me is the exact opposite you take that knowledge what you have or what you can build or jeath and turn this into the business of tomorrow with the business case of course maybe the money is not here on in the third month maybe in the first year maybe in the second year once you do that concert consequently and you don't just go for incremental stuff but also have a portfolio which includes a few bigger bets and I think it works but is there always an element of a leap of faith and do you need to find enough people who want to do that who are powerful enough I mean yeah that is that is why there is management I mean all of us are in one form of Management and you get paid for making this happen in large complex organizations with lots of brains I I think that is the way to go about it yes go back to the finance function yes that is something that I find quite distressing in a sense what do you mean by that the finance function is highly unproductive in any company that I've seen and have work across 315 industries okay this particularly bad in insurance so the cost I generate is huge the many cases don't have to accounting under control you know in some cases getting a bill paid is a nightmare employing many many people so I think they should look after own business and start using technology and actually in that particular case would be rather easy to get a business straight and the moment they did that I would understand our technology can help in many other functions making quite some leap towards the future but sitting there and saying you know show me a business case you know I would respond show me the business case for the existent of your function the way it is set up set up today and people are noting so I guess people know what I'm talking about well I think I think you're right exactly anyone step in um just listening to to some of the recent Commons and I understand firsthand the frustrations and the challenge is in respect to getting business cases through but I think you know what those are kind of the heart of some of the drivers that my own personal experience on this journey has been in relation to getting to the root causes of some of these challenges and I think that is is in my experience sometimes too you get caught up with the short term short term in of ism's the short term expense saving how will I do that let's get rid of headcount let's lift and shift that's button that's fine there's short-term measures but this industry has to grapple with getting to the root causes fundamentally of what the drivers of our challenges are collectively and I think it connects everything and it really is that you can't technology to me is not the solution you have to get to the root cause and I think some of those root causes are really entrenched in the complicated process and workflows that we have the disconnect it II we have between the customer flowing through the entire underwriting journey the claims journey the fun journey right into the reinsurance industry and a lot of that is is getting to the heart of the data and I think if you look at the successes even on other industries it's hard it's very painful but you have to start getting structure around your data because if you can get your data fixed right at the outsource it starts to automatically correct some of those flow problems that you have from the disconnect from from one department to the other I think if you can correct your workflow and you can start really concentrating the discipline it is hard and it takes a lot of discipline to fix your your data structure that starts to change the way that you can under ice then you start enabling that with technology and then you enable it with data analytics so I can relate to the challenges I think probably the advantages that someone in our situation is a relatively new company is we don't come from a legacy background we came out with a clean sheet and said if we didn't have to reflect in the 20 30 years of experience that this industry has it's a lot longer than that I dunno but if you said if you had a clean sheet today you couldn't draw how complicated it is and you say how will I do it differently but it's getting the work flow what does the customer want what does the user want what does an underwriter want to do what does a claims person want to do what does a finance person wants to what does a broker want to do for their customer if you design around that and you can fix your data our problems will start to sort themselves out in the future and I think the rate and the pace and the acceleration that we can change will start to start to pick up but data discipline data standardization data purity is difficult because we have tons of it in the commercial space but it's in everybody's head it's in everybody's drawers it's in files it since disconnected systems so I think some of these are just trying to you know as collectively as an industry we have to come together and resolve these because we can build new fresh our plug has to fit into the socket of of this industry we're all connected to just out of curiosity how does the performance of an insurer tech relate to one of the more traditional players I mean what what sort of margins are you seeing I think there's obviously it's for its it's relatively new and we're a relatively new business so there is a degree of time but I think the timelines are different and how you jumped you can we started a business and you could get to to launching within nine months the second product will come out in a shorter period of time we have the advantage of agility speed of decision making problem solving surround you know we brought Outsiders in we brought two people from with technology and expertise in we have those advantages and we can be innovative and we can build solutions but we still have to partner with the industry as well we have were small you know we still have to partner with capacity we have to partner with the distribution industry so I think you know it's sometimes I look at him go we have these advantages but the pluses are the bigger companies they have the balance sheet they have the resources they have the big purse so I think it's it's gonna be a dynamic I think it's gonna become a partnership in time I think we all we all need each other in respect to taking the learnings that we can do in an isolated environment but we still have to work within the ecosystem collectively that we operate in now listening to all of this it seems to me that a lot of people might feel slightly threatened perhaps or the industry might collectively feel quite threatened by the speed of change happening in other industries and and the fact that there is this kind of desire for change and to be closer to the data and Haley as you know as the head of underwriting who is tomorrow's underwriter is it a very different person to the person who's doing the job today is it a very different skill set I mean should people be worried about their own jobs I think so I think what the only writer does today we'll be very different in the future and there is research out that says 98% to what an underwriter does today we disappear that doesn't mean say underwriting people disappear but they look different and I think some of our own thoughts are that the underwriter so some of the underwriters may be on sirs numerators you want them to be in the future world that's that's non-negotiable so you need underwriters who can initiate we were numeron you can look at solutions for the customer and who were probably dealing with the customer much more than they are now and find new solutions earlier I think insurance industry will be moving and has to be just away from protection to prevention the best thing is if you know we can prevent some of these things happening so I do think it will be very different I think that means it's is scary and that's why there is a degree of resistance for those people who still have jobs they're going to be so much more exciting than they are today and I would say most underwriters spend 80% of their time in putting and administration and at best they're doing 20% designed solutioning and great things for the customer just very quickly and if I can bring you a Lucca back into the conversation and then hopefully you've had some time so think of some questions you can ask our esteemed panelists here and we talked a lot about disruption in this industry the need now for a disruption in this industry what does successful disruption look like in your view I'm known for hitting this expression this price there's a lot of noise around tank and digitisation and so on in the industry this is confusing many people when people go to conferences come back very excited and then nothing happens that won't happen today by the way I [Music] think we are fundamental change I prefer to say speak about fundamental change this disruption will happen in the VM of data and data management insurance in the modern sense of the world has always been about understanding data quantitative data and make some meaningful predictions about the future and then decide to take a risk for certain price and tell polar industries doing the job better with less capital in that's in essence the easy story now data the data generation that we see in many places from predictive maintenance to sensors now all over the world to satellite images and so on actually helping predicting risk we're coming from a world of understanding and covering risk and moving to a world of predicting and preventing this prediction and prevention is what is going to change the nature and size of fish pools and I think that's the biggest change that we're gonna experience that would go with the change in productivity but the change in productivity is more pedestrian in a sense there is a lot of work but is easier to imagine where it's a change in the size and nature of risk pools you know take cyber risk five years ago nobody was talking about cyber risk believe it or not today is talk of the town does anybody know how to insure it do we have an unlimited capacity for it no we're taking some bets trying to understand it so but that is going to be the model of risk pools going forward the Machine the remote the economy everything is moving to machines machines break down and what are the small ball in attack who is the king legacy systems it doesn't really matter there is a damage can we insure that can we predict that can we prevent it that's a big question that many companies including NASA take a lot of time and therefore trying to understand and solve but those are the real dramatic changes if you want it just reminds me actually and not so very long ago Inmarsat I don't know if you know that the satellite communications company and I was doing a film with them and I went into their satellite office not too far from here actually and and they have one room a control room which is where they can see all the satellites going around the earth they will can also see all the planes and all the ships that they are directing by satellite as well and so they've got all these things directed all over the globe and then there is a separate control room just for cyber and it's a war room and you go in and there again there is a map on the wall and all the people in there are heavily tattooed bearded data scientists and they have it they actually have a clock on the wall and a counter and much like a I don't know a call center sort of calls waiting you have number of ongoing red alert cyber threats going on all over the world and you can see the counter constantly running up it's unbelievable you know dozens of cyber big cyber attacks happening simultaneously around the world so cyber to your point is is very real and the people who are working on it or perhaps not necessarily the people you might imagine and so hopefully and I'd like to open it this up this discussion up to the floor you've had some chance to hear some of the thoughts from our panelists here just to remind you of the names and we've got Eric here Jacqueline Luca and Hayley if you could please and when you are asking a question if you could identify yourself and make sure that you use the microphone as well because we are being recorded here and it's all around the world apparently so and just to make sure that you get your your five seconds of fame and if you could speak up and into the microphone that would be great so who would like to ask the first question we've got one in the front just him thank you Tobias from B&W so we talked about in two attacks and we had the view of a new founder of a new company so Haley one question to you there's a lot of hype about startups and I think the hype is now for a couple of years and personally I always think insurers have a lot of data set so they make the assessment they are the risk areas how much of a risk to you see from an insurance perspective that the startups is it just you learn something from them or do you rather than partnering because they really bring some some benefits to you I think it's some and some so I think you know if you've if you see some of this the insurer techs who are trying to get into the insurance basin and particularly in personal lines they can get to a certain size and then they don't have the brand and people still buy from brands they recognize so I think that's been a little bit of a challenge from some of the people moving into the insurer space which is I think why you see a lot more of them wanting to partner and they do genuinely offer some good opportunities you know we've partnered you know in in my employer we've sponsored an innovation forum across the world with as a competition and we've partnered with with some of the winners on there and they're providing us with things that really we couldn't build as cheaply ourselves and we couldn't deploy as quickly but you're right our data is still very powerful I have a team who can do things better and faster than some of the people who are trying to sell me that data and they can do it more accurately and that's why we invest in that team but actually that's important to me because I can prove that we can do it better cheaper and faster and more accurately by continuing to invest there so I think it's it's horses for courses I think you ignore them at your peril but equally you leap in and spend billions at your peril as well thanks very much to us do we have any further questions yes as the gentlemen just behind in a second row with the great hair thank you well I can see is a hair at this angle to be honest I've heard loads about technology I all that and I'm hoping I'm not offending to many people but reassurance as an industry is now a very sex industry and there's an age-old saying you know you only as good as your people so I'll be interested to get a view from the panel what you guys are doing to attract the younger generation I'm sorry I didn't catch your name Alex okay Alex I've worked in at least 15 industries I've never seen anything sexier than reinsurance good god I bet you didn't think you were getting today we are ensuring insurance companies but from a mixed intellectual challenge thinking second third fourth fifth order problems is actually a fascinating exercise and I think it also makes a good huge contribution to work resilience now with regard to attracting people to the industry I think there's a general problem with issuance because you know when people think insurance they think the image coming up to mind is the tight agents or the broker the the provincial book around the corner with Krizia knocking on the doors and that's the image that that emerges and actually with my former employers that happened to be Jewish we did even study we saw that insurance in the ranking of our industry and some of attractiveness for young talent instead of number 45 or 46 so pretty much down the road a whether the only thing I've learned is that when we go and talk to highly talented graduated and we start telling them what the industry actually does forget the tide agents with crazy so think about what the industry actually performed they're all fascinated so I will have programs going on from MIT to achieve a university we were accessing that talent and it's not a difficult to build a model the issue is mu ha then you need to will them move on them to Goodman and takes 10 years before they become truly productive in terms of having a proper understanding of business work but that will come true and I'm not particularly concerned but we need to explain to them what we do if we don't they will make up their own image yeah certainly it's only a good start and Eric I wonder what your thoughts are on this I mean that the next generation of people coming through the next generation of underwriters their tech savvy they expect a lot they expect a lot of their employers as well and they don't necessarily expect a career for life and insurance and reinsurance more generally has been seen as a pretty safe nice option with a nice easy lunch at the top of the Gherkin so what is it that's gonna keep them at big companies like Swiss Re so the only like three times I've been at top of the Gherkin was was always when clients were involved you'll be invited I think I could say a lot of things I have found it amazingly easy to hire people who are a lot smarter than me and you know especially nowadays with analytics you can hire people straight off University and there they will add value on day one because they know stuff that you don't and and that is highly relevant you just need to find a way to to understand that the data analytics of today will be together with what we know is actually our science today the future of whatever that will be called that mind it's obvious it'll just take a bit of time but I think other than me talking I maybe I'll put two of my colleagues on the spot who has seen the front row who are and I don't want to age discriminate but they are younger than me and have joined the company recently you know a few years ago so maybe Olivia and Andrea do you want to say a word or two on what attracted you to join Swiss we it might be a drink in it for you later [Music] explain to me the complexity of the work we do but what makes me motivated to work at 3 3 is to get the responsibility to build up new things and be given the the trust to you know to do things and interact the clients and try to bring solutions to life and I joined even more recently so I actually joined Swiss 3 back in August and I came from many years in banking where I was looking at the industry from the outside and for me it was really that ability to shape some of the changes that from the outside you just look at and you talk about and you say well that seems to be a good idea that seems to be a bad idea but actually the scale of change that's going on in just the diversity of things you really can influence yourself that for me was was really the driving factor and I can say you do actually have a lot of scope to to do that on the inside so lots of fascinating things going on as we heard the interesting work and autonomy I promise we didn't plant them and that wasn't a planted question thanks very much Alex I hope you're happy with your choice of employer gives it thumbs up we've got a thumbs up Hayley at Lu that you wanted to add I just wanted to add it and I think probably nobody in this room chose insurance very few people choose insurance you know you fall into it and then you realize it's very diverse it you know and you can do whatever you want to do and most people end up staying I think the challenge is those people who are capable of working in a data and analytics world have far more choice than they ever used to in the old days they became actuaries nowadays they can go and you know work in fun organizations like Google or Facebook which is far more exciting than insurance so I at the outset I think all perception probably and I think therefore as the insurance industry we've still got some work to do and it's probably not about talking about a career in insurance it's probably talking about the content of the role rather than its insurance and I think a lot of young people today have a massive social conscience they care about the world and they care about people and I think we can latch on to that because insurance is a massive social benefit that can help the world and can help people and I think that's part of how we unlock that a new generation coming into insurance okay really interesting I think we've got time for one more question before a final thought from all our panelists we've got one question just here gentlemen in the Navy suit either Alistair Wilkie from Tesco underwriting probably really following on from that last comment there how do we ensure with all these advanced in technology and big data sources and uses of it ensure that the customer isn't forgotten in once all of this and are we better off using it from I guess a customer angle to make these advances and change I can see you looking at Jacklyn a new mention customer centric I think it's a very valid it's a very valid point and I think when I talked about a blank sheet and reimagining it it's not from the inside out it has to come from the outside in now whether that's business to consumer or its business to business you have to factor it's more about the user experience and the customer experience so say in our business for example which is a more kind of mid market space the broker is really our customer but if we can deliver a really good experience very fast faster better automated documentation very high service completely raising the bar from a service level standpoint and you're automating a lot of the administration for them then by default the customer is having a better experience because you're starting to reduce all their repetitiveness and the administration and asking the same questions again so I think part of the journey that we went on was making sure that we were designing in collaboration that we did insist in a lab and our own and saying as insiders with outsiders we can do this better ourselves we have to go on a journey of engagement and saying to brokers and customers how can we improve this for you what matters what are your pain points what are your priorities so I think with the tools and techniques that are available today you always have to put you can whether the customer is the user or the end buyer you have to take that under consideration and I think those those tools are those tools and techniques are there available today it's a very valid point we're using we use the word customer a bit too loose and loose and fast I have a final question for our panelists here and in all of this I mean it seems to me that your viewpoint Jaqueline is it's quite straightforward it's more customer centric organizations that are sort of pure with the data I wonder what you think the winning solution is if you look at the insurers if you if you were five years from now and you're looking you're looking back and we'll start with you Eric who do you think will be winning in this race and and why what are the factors for success do you think we mean second to fifth place after reinsurance as number one of course maybe let me think difficult to say if you want to pinpoint a topic I feel because a lot of things are evolving if I look at solutions at Swiss Re we have financial targets like everyone else has and in this room and if I see what delivered our results in last year about a third of what delivered the results so we delivered our plan but that was stuff that we actually had not planned for so things that actually happened not planned less but you know things eyeball me quickly as Luke I'll put it with cyber and and so on so so what you plan today I think it's very likely that in five years from now what you will deliver is more than 50 percent different from that just purely mathematically doesn't mean you shouldn't have a plan today obviously but I think you need to be prepared that even your best plan might have changed in a reasonable amount of of time and so I think that type of agility to be focused in but at the same time also be open minded for what will be the scalable part I think that is a very winning strategy and then if I could name just another one other than data and analytics and knowing how to do it I think that's more like table steps almost to me everyone will need to figure that out the other thing will be about knowing when you do it yourself and and when you partner and I think if I look at that one of the biggest privileges of being in in my role or my dad part of Swiss that we are of people outside of Swiss we often industries that are actually outside of the insurance industry a little bit these industry barriers and borders are blending ecosystems evolve that are different from what we know today now these meetings make you a lot smarter when you when you when you have a plan when you have a strategy how to actually put it together into something that could work in five years from now so to me that's one of the biggest asks that you have to get it get your head around how do you choose when to work with a start-up when to work with your client when to work with another industry player in order to achieve scalable progress right that's the two things everything okay so a sort of iterative innovation and collaboration partnerships in essence I don't think it has to be baby steps I mean can you bolster so it can be a partnership that might not have been super obvious even but it has to be the one that you actually feel makes sense right and I think right now there's a lot of room to make decisions that maybe in a few years from now will be quiet normal right but now if you can be two three years faster than a few others I think there's something to gain certainly the dream isn't it Jacqueline what about you what do you think is sort of the key driver of success of businesses that will be successful five years from now I think I think the courage to embrace change is the starting point and having then the vision what does that change look like and then also executing we can't sit around and keep talking about this because the clock is ticking so execution has to be done and has to be done well and it has to be done in a service with with service and raising standards and mind and I think kind of sometimes I think about this summarizer boys something a broker said to me kind of maybe nine months ago 12 months ago we were quite new in the journey he said I love what you're doing and I hate what you're doing and I thought you know it was an interesting dichotomy in relation to his point and subsequently we reflect on he said I love what you're doing because it is the right thing it's it's deliberate it's well thought through it's common sense I hate what you're doing is because does it put people's when I talk about my point here is when you talk about courage an execution I hate what you're doing because it is is it putting jobs at risk is it putting underwriters and brokers jobs at risks and my answer to him at the time and I still kind of and I I'm still reflecting on this point because it was braced by several of you in the audience I my answer to that was well there's no such thing as a job for life in insurance or probably any industry anymore there's a lot of jobs there being lifted and shifted there's a lot of redundancies be made ahead but if we have the opportunity to re-skill to retrain people to embrace the new the older the new generation with the experience of the older generation then a lot of hopefully the rewards will come out of the jobs that we're building so I think in that regard to to I think it's to get to your point to tour I think it's really about it is about the vision it's about having the courage to do it executed but do it well too and factor in the pros and cons and the advantages the challenges and the opportunities Luka how'd you do it well how do you execute this change that's to empower everybody in the company to do the stuff it's not like you know this this dream I built the ivory tower I put very intelligence innovation teams and it doesn't work I have not seen that working anywhere what works is actually when you enable people to do it themselves and for that you need to expose them to the right technology companies the right not every engineering that you've that emerges everywhere is real engineering there's a lot of hotel so expose them make sure they only interact with true solid robust engineering companies and then help them understand the concepts take you know from that point of view understand the technology is not that difficult you're not you don't need to be a Python code to understand technology in some cases you will need to end tight on corners of course you do and then make sure that people understand that's actually their responsibility to understand what's going on and is relevant for their function based on own business need and use cases as opposed to you know fancy let's do something with blockchain type of exercises that lead nowhere and and then is a change management process that takes years you don't do that overnight and so when people ask me or here how much is you Novation team in your role as a man you Asian theme is 14500 everybody I think that attitude needs to percolate through organization and then you need to invest in enabling it and this is difficult I'm not saying that happens overnight it takes years but I think the at the end of the day I'm sorry but the incumbents will win but that would be the incumbents were able to go through that process because indeed after brand attacker ability that the customer based at the balance sheet they have a different risk position and a number of huge incumbents advantage in this in this industry that goes beyond what you see in other industries and to leverage them is about inhibiting those organizational to go through the transformation that I think you get the final words and Haley now no one wants to be obviously on the wrong side of a revolution and the tech revolution is no different and how will you stand up to the incumbents well I think for me yeah you're on I think I'm on yeah the winners are the say you know insurance is no different to any other industry in any industry and it's Aemon insurances the winners are the people who understand what their customers want deliver what their customers want and can adapt to changing circumstances and are agile and I Greek couldn't agree more with with Jackie and it's about execution on that me as well okay thank you so much thank you very much to all our panelists today and if we could just give them a round of applause please I hope you've you've found that session useful and next up we've got Olivia brindle who's going to be taking you through the innovation sessions thank you very much