Send Countersignature Justification with airSlate SignNow

Send countersignature justification

[Music] welcome to Christ the center your weekly conversation of reformed theology we're now on episode number 576 my name is Camden Busey I'm the pastor of hope Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Grayslake Illinois president of reformed forum and delighted to be back with you today to talk about some important issues but let me introduce to you our panel we have our good friend dr. Lane Tipton who serves us professor of biblical and systematic theology at Westminster Theological Seminary in Glenside Pennsylvania he's also a pastor of Trinity OPC in eastern PA welcome back laine camden thanks as always it's a delight to be here well we were talking about like I said some important issues today some really significant matters talking specifically about the doctrine of justification this is this is real basic 101 stuff and we love speaking about it important issues things that need to be addressed it's it's a great time I mean I'm glad that there's interest in the doctrine of justification because it is such a central important doctrine of the Reformed faith and really just of Christianity if we don't get justification right and really we don't have anything correct and we need to get this right in terms of how we are right with God is it by what we do is it by what we are or is it by God's grace and what he has done for us in and through the person in the work of our Savior Jesus Christ and then the Ministry of the Holy Spirit to apply his life death and resurrection to us making us alive in him we can't can't go wrong talking about those things lately we've been seeing some new books I do want to make note of some very significant titles that have come out or are out some of them are still for pre-order but two of them in particular I want people to know about and perhaps you can add them to your shelf for the first is the two volume set by Michael Horton his book justification this is in the new studies in dogmatix series you can find this published by Zondervan again the two volume sets two paperbacks and at least on Amazon right now you get for fifty eight dollars and nine cents I don't know what Westminster Books has it for probably or beating that you can check that at WTS Books calm or wherever you can find reformed books to get a copy of that of course that's a attitude by Scotts Wayne and Michael Allen professors at Reformed Theological Seminary and never everybody knows about Michael Horton a professor out at Westminster seminary California host of Whitehorse in and involved in modern ref and all that good stuff so we hope to to keep up our dialogue with with him I know Lane and and Mike have been conversing over some of these issues recently so this is very good we're encouraged by a lot of the things here the other main book is the doctrine on which the church stands or Falls justification in biblical theological historical and pastoral perspective which is edited by Matthew Barrett there's a lot of contributors to this volume it's published by cross way and I have a pre pub copy of it and I'm very thankful to them for having sent that over and so I've been looking at it examining it and I'm very excited to dive into and read many of the chapters I'm not going to sit here and list all the contributors there are many and people that you're gonna know our friend David van druten he's a is a fellow presbytery brother of mine I was a little talking to David he's got an article in here or chapter John Fusco as well another OPC minister and professor out at Westminster California and Brandon Crowe Brandon Crowes been on the program a lot and of course he teaches New Testament in Westminster in Philadelphia so those are just three names out of however many Chris guests all those another one and he's been on the program before to talk about Catholic theology I've been able to have lunch with him before and always loved talking to Chris so check it out that's an important book coming out from Crossway I believe it is available for pre-order now roughly around 30 bucks but that's this a big fat book I mean big fat book I think it might be pushing a thousand pages I'm not sure let me try to get to the bottom of this PDF and we'll see how long it is yet 913 pages in the PDF so that's no joke [Music] it's hefty okay so I bring that up because there um with the the birth of these these titles and with the continued I wouldn't want to say renewed interest in justification because we're always interested in it in anybody who's involved in reformed theology as always thinking about and studying and teaching about the doctrine of justification I don't know if we're we could say that we're in some sort of weird cultural moment within the church where the doctrine of justification is under particular scrutiny or we're having some sort of crisis I don't want to sound the horn like Chicken Little but we're always you know at risk of making errors and we're always at risk of shifting our focus away from Jesus and upon ourselves and for that reason with the sinful heart and with the effects of sin upon the mind and with the pressures from this world upon the church no doubt we always need to be renewed constantly reformed by Scripture and again it's important that we do that on the doctrine of justification here today so we're not going to do a review or a deep dive into any of these books now we hope to treat them with with a much greater depth a specificity and documentation in the future and perhaps have conversations with many of the authors on future episodes of Christ the center and other venues but at least today Wayne and I were hoping to provide what we might call an entree to the subject of justification with some very basic categories on the subject we want to revisit the basic confessional definition at least from our confessional documents the Westminster standards and of course those are in accord with all the other reformed you know documents that we find especially particularly the three forms of unity there's no disagreement fundamentally on the issue there and we want to rehearse the basic definition of justification then offer a few very basic biblical categories for how to understand the doctrine particularly in relation to the relation between Christ and those for whom he died and was raised so that's our goal today and as we lay that out we're gonna walk through many of these issues and talk about justification in history speaking particularly about what happened in Christ's life as as our Messiah who lived and died and was raised for us and then how justification which was accomplished by Christ is applied to us through the Ministry and agency of the Holy Spirit the third person of the Trinity but before we talk about all that just a few things of course to mention of course reform forum is a nonprofit organization and this program Christ the center is a listener-supported program so we we hope that you would visit us online at Reformed forum org slash donate to pledge your support and help us out in our mission our board just met on Tuesday and we're talking about some big plans and big projects coming up here this calendar year and we're really excited about what lies in store more on that to come as we develop some literature and you know publications and stuff like that we hope to be making things more public and laying out the plan we have a five-year plan and then a long term goal beyond that that we hope to detail and great specificity and then make that public soon enough but we're still finalizing a few things but just to give you a heads up as to what's coming but if you visit us on our donate page you can certainly sign up to support us either with a one-time gift or perhaps with a recurring monthly gift all gifts are tremendously useful and encouraging and while you're on the website you can also see that our email address mail at Reformed forum even on the donate page is linked right there if you have any questions or if you want to send us some encouragement or some perhaps suggestions for ways that we might serve you and and specifically that we might serve the church in our mission which comes from Colossians 1:28 to present every person mature in Christ we understand that it's the church that does that activity the church has been given the great commission we want to do everything we can as a as a organization committed to the church to provide resources and instruction to provide opportunities for learning and growth through events and online means that we would present every person mature in Christ and make sure that not one is left behind on our pilgrimage heading towards our eternal heavenly rest in which we will see the Lord Jesus Christ face to face will worship Him will have communion with the triune God in glory forever that's the goal so let's all get there and let's do everything we possibly can to get there and make sure that nobody is left behind that's a different way to think about left behind I think than the traditional of angelical Jesus in the book series we're in a car we're gonna co-op that title left behind no pilgrim left behind that's just that the Hebrews is on the mind because I'm preaching Hebrews and that's a that's a key theme in the book there see to it that no one is left left behind that no one fails to attain the rest before us so how we're gonna do that well we need to present every person mature in Christ that no one is weak and frail and fails to finish the race and we need to support those who are weak and frail and hurting and raise them up and carry them along so we seek to do that in a very particular way with our little theological mission and our our desire to instruct people on things like this the doctrine of justification of course registration for our Wimberly seminar still open and you can find that on the events page at Reformed forum dot org more people have been registering for that but it's coming up quickly so April second third and fourth a lane will be teaching twelve thirty minute lectures roughly thirty minutes on the subject of the foundations of covenant theology so that's something that interests you we'd love to see you in Wimberley and have you participate not only sit there and learn from Lane as he's lecturing but we'll have time up and down the week to talk about those issues and other theological issues you may have and and mostly just to fellowship and converse with other people committed to this deeper Protestant conception this this idea that God even before man fell into sin had been intending for man to to enter into a higher estate of glory of greater communion and confirmed fellowship with him the trying God so that's what we're about so come and enjoy that time with us we look forward to seeing everybody in Texas April 2nd 3rd and 4th 2019 all right well Lane I'm so thankful you're able to join us today and very appreciative for for your time we love obviously talking about voss every month we're going to talk about Voss a bit today too as he comes up but just when we're speaking about the confessional doctrine of justification of course our confessions are secondary standards and we submit ourselves to Scripture as our ultimate authority but just for the sake of expediency we're gonna start with the confessional definitions and of course you can look at the confession you can go to OPC dad works for our confessions to the Westminster standards as they've been adopted by our church and you can of course follow up and read the proof texts if you'd like to dive down and understanding those proof texts are not meant for you just to read the proof and there it is but to understand that there's also an exegetical and commentary tradition alongside of those proof texts that's not meant to be the end of the story we're supposed to understand why those proof texts earned and invoked I should say but let's start with some real basic categories here opening up the Shorter Catechism the Westminster Shorter Catechism starting at question 29 I'm not gonna read the questions I'll just read the answers again for expediency since the question is already baked into the answer starting at 29 we are made partakers of the redemption purchased by Christ by the effectual application of it to us by His Holy Spirit the spirit apply F to us the redemption purchased by Christ by working faith in us and thereby uniting a to Christ in our effectual calling effectual calling is the work of God's Spirit whereby convincing us of our sin and misery enlightening our minds in the knowledge of Christ and renewing our wills he doth persuade and enable us to embrace Jesus Christ freely offered to us in the gospel and then 32 they that are effectually called do in this life partake of justification adoption and sanctification and the several benefits which in this life do either accompany or flow from them and then what is justification question 33 justification is an act of God's free grace wherein he pardon a--the all our sins and accepted us as righteous in his sight only for the righteousness of Christ imputed to us and received by faith alone now I hope most of our listeners know that question and answer perhaps many of them have memorized it and if you're starting to forget it because you memorized it years ago review it and because that that is perhaps you know one of the greatest succinct statements on justification that we have in the english-speaking world it is and and it's it's it's quite a it's quite an astounding statement and there's a there's a brief amplification of it in the larger catechism seventy just to make our listeners aware of and it's this justification is an act of God's free grace unto sinners in which he pardons all their sins except sin accounts their persons as righteous in his sight not for anything wrought in them or done by them but only for the perfect obedience and full satisfaction of Christ by God imputed to them and received by faith alone you know I Camden I think when you ask the question what is justification I think everything pivots around the fact that a justification entails in its very essence the imputation of the perfect obedience full satisfaction I would also add but don't want dad resurrection is involved here but as far as our standards go the perfect obedience and full satisfaction of Christ that is what is imputed to the sinner and it's not for anything rot in him the error of Rome or anything done by him which would be the error of all forms of neo no Mian ISM where your justification depends on personal acts of obedience to God rather than resting on Christ's perfect obedience and full satisfaction and then the second point is that that justification is received by faith alone faith is the sole instrument of justification wonderfully succinct way of talking about a distinctively reformed understanding of justification right so let's speak then specifically about justifications relationship to faith that we we need to see that there is a very defined well defined well a tested relationship in the Bible now of course the new perspective on Paul has raised all sorts of questions about this relationship some people are preferring to read the language of faith they there's always issues of subjective and objective genitive z' and stuff like this and this is getting into the weeds for the Greek scholars where they would prefer sometimes to say that we're not justified by grace through our faith but were justified by the faith that Christ had we're gonna table all that and just talk very specifically about the traditional historic and we would say biblical doctrine of justification here that's that of course was rediscovered he was not invented but it was rediscovered by Martin Luther and of course the entire reformed tradition ought to be signing up and has signed up for this doctrine and and maintains it as an article of faith it's an article it's the main hinge of of art of our understanding of our doctrine as Calvin likes to call it it's a significant portion and without it the whole notion of biblical salvation falls apart we don't we don't deny any of that so this is the this is what's at stake here so it's a matter of life and death well how we formulate this doctrine it really is absolutely critical Cardinal main hinge ya or thee more for our attention because it's something that Rome denies and it's something that all forms of neon omean ism two-stage justification where the already is rooted in faith and then not yet and your obedience oh yeah all of those are gone because of some very helpful formulations I think in the Scriptures the teaching of Scripture and the confession camera as we talk about faith in relation to justification two things that I think our listeners would benefit from doing the first would be to note the refrain of the final clause in thirty-three Shorter Catechism thirty-three and seventy and here it is received by faith alone the remission of sin and the imputing of Christ full obedience and satisfaction and all that attends him as raised and ascended that which is imputed is received by faith alone and Westminster Confession 11 - puts it this way and I want our listeners to be this is roomy I know this is very remedial but we need to return to this over and over again oh yeah no I'd like to say on things like this as in many others and I tell my people this from the pulpit these are things from which we never graduate ever and so don't say I've heard this and tune out you know they would never beyond it ever you're never too good too smart to reform - studied - look at these things this is the basics amen so let's just come back to the simple and clear things faith 11 - not I'll make two points thus receiving and resting on Christ and His righteousness is the alone instrument of justification point one faith and we'll talk about this here in a second faith unites to Christ in the sense that the person who is gifted faith it's a sovereign gift of god ephesians 2:8 that person receives and rests on Christ and Christ alone for his righteousness so it's his obedience and his satisfaction faith rests on the Christ who has offered comprehensive obedience in his life a who has made purification for sin of propitiated the wrath of God expiated the sin of his people reconciled him to himself in the blood of the cross B and then C been raised from the dead never to die again and justified first Timothy 3:16 it is that righteousness that faith that righteousness of Christ that faith lays hold of as faith rests on Christ that's point 1 so faith rests on Christ and as it does so here's the language it is the alone instrument of justification so you think of it this way what is the instrument that connects me as a sinner to the righteousness of Christ in his life death and resurrection it is spirit gifted faith an instrument that receives the imputed righteousness and the remission of sins imputed righteousness of Christ remission of sins and and that means Camden and I think you might want to emphasize this quite a bit you have no personal justification prior to or apart from faith in Christ Spearin work spirit gifted sovereignly worked spirit worked faith is the alone instrument of justification no justification in any sense in your life experience prior to an apart from faith wrought by the spirit that rests on Christ for his righteousness right so when we are speaking of justification according to the standards we are speaking in terms of our position with God our status justification is an act of God's free grace as the confession or the the Catechism says wherein he pardon if all our sins and accepted us as righteous in his sight only for the righteousness of Christ imputed to us and received by faith alone now I often like to teach this using a courtroom metaphor and we know that's not the only way to teach it I don't want to reduce it to this metaphor but think of it this way we are standing before God our judge we have Satan who accuses us even our own consciences accuse us too we have God's law as the righteous standard knowing that we are already condemned through the sin of Adam but we add to it even our own personal sin and we have Christ who is our advocate as it is or our stand-in so here's the issue God looks upon us and the question is are we guilty or not now he could look upon us on our own account there's no question we're guilty we're deserving of death eternal punishment in Hell separation from God from his benefits forever and ever and ever but God in His grace sent to us a Savior Jesus Christ who died to pay the penalty for the sins of his people on the cross he paid for the penalty that I deserve he was buried he was raised from the dead vindicated by the spirit so that death no longer has power over him he bore the full wrath of God so that the sins of his people are propitiated for and expiated so the wrath of God is fully satisfied and taken away my guilt my sins are taken away removed from me so now when God the judge in this metaphor looks upon me he does not look at my record because my record has been given to Jesus it's been imputed we like to say sometimes credited reckoned and that is a transfer term a sometimes we call a forensic term it's not a change in me that imputation was not a change in Jesus but on our account he became sin he bore our sins on his room he took our record upon himself and what do we get in return we get his record that's the great exchange so now when God looks at me what does he see he sees the righteousness of Christ that's why Paul often talks about being clothed in his righteousness that clothing is is a good metaphor an illustration for us because we know and on our own account in ourselves we're filthy sinners but we've been clothed in the righteousness of our Savior Jesus so that when the judge looks upon us all he sees is the perfect resurrection the person and the work of the perfect record in the person and the work of our Savior Jesus who has been raised from the dead has victory over death and who satisfied his wrathfully so the the verdict I guess not the verdict but the declaration that that is spoken from the judges seat is innocent no it's better than being innocent it's fully righteous justification is an act of God's free grace where any pardon a--the all of our sins and accepts us as righteous in his sight not neutral not not even merely innocent as in we cannot prove that you're guilty but you're never you're never even pronounced innocent in the court of law in the United States you're pronounced not guilty but we're not even pronounced innocent were pronounced righteous in his sight only the righteousness of Christ imputed to us and received by faith alone meaning it has nothing to do with what I have done and it has nothing to do with what I will do and I have only received it now through faith which rests in Christ an act of faith rests it's not a meritorious work in which I do something then to obtain this salvation and therefore could receive some sort of credit those are the real basic categories that's justification it's an alien righteousness in extrinsic righteousness it comes from outside from someone else and now it is upon me now the work of sanctification changes me in Who I am that's a renovated benefit but in terms of what we're talking about with justification here strictly forensic it's on account has to do with my guilt and now Jesus has delivered me from my sins so that I'm freely pardoned because of what he did for me and you know Camden what's worth emphasizing one point from our standards and one point from the Scriptures is which you've already emphasized but I just want to highlight it is that justification is an act not a particular word is a worker special word there in our stand that in there in the theology of the standards acts pertain to the activities of God that pertain to our judicial status or our filial status judicial status justification filial status adoption a work pertains to our condition and that belongs that language is applied to sanctification or regeneration that latter work transforms and renovates and the acts of God bring about a change not in us but in our status before God which you've already made crystal clear Kevin I appreciate the other way of going about it too because it's helpful to reiterate those things yeah it's just saying the same thing with the different a little bit different view so our dew point of view but if Romans 5:17 those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ in the context we don't have time to get into the details but in the context of Romans 5:12 through 19 the only gifted righteousness that comes into view is that which belongs to Christ in his obedience and in his satisfaction and then by extension as he ever lives in righteousness and so they Protestant point the reformed point is we receive that by that righteousness that free gift of righteousness by this Spirit worked faith alone absolutely absolutely so continuing on that none of this to this point should be contentious in any way shape or form to anyone who's reformed if it is and we have we got to back up and start talking about some other issues in laying this foundation but I hope I really pray and hope that anyone who's who's confessing reformed is 100% onboard with what we've been speaking about now I trust that there are many listeners who are not confessional II reformed or are growing in their faith and they have not been instructed in these matters and we want to encourage you to but we've been we're not presenting anything that should be controversial in not even a whiff of it to this point within our reformed tradition so but now we're gonna start to start to crank it up a bit not with anything that ought to be controversial but at least diving down into some more specific issues and want to connect a few dots and this is where things get really even more important so we've already established the the confessional doctrine of justification and definition of it we've spoken about what justifications relationship to faith is faith is the alone instrument of justification but now we've already spoken about how a little bit in this metaphor that our justification is based exclusively upon what Christ had done for me for us for believers that our justification is impossible apart from the person and work of Jesus but here's where we need to add some precision because we start to diverge with other Protestant groups when we start to speak about how justification relates to Christ's work and how we use that word justification and also how what happens to us in time through the Ministry of the Spirit pertains to what happened with Christ in history in his life death and resurrection so Lane can you help us understand a few of these things or at least lay out some basic categories regarding our union with Christ now when we're speaking of union with Christ we're usually speaking in one sense but there were at least three different ways that we that the Bible talks about us being United to Christ could you lay those out very slowly and specifically for us just to help us with the categories in our minds absolutely and I can try to we can connect this to justification in light of Westminster Confession eleven four so this this will work well Camden when the Bible speaks about our solid Derrick bond to the person of Christ there are three categories that come into view predestined aryan union that is the eternal union that we're where the eternal son is the mediator is in the pactum salutis or the eternal plan of salvation he stands as our representative head and surety our substitute our mediator and we are elected in him before the foundation of the world Ephesians 1 405 that's predestined Aryan past historical Union we were not yet born we were not yet created but we were contemplated predestined in him before the foundation of the world secondly the Scriptures teach in texts like second Corinthians 5:14 in Romans 6:6 that when Christ died all of his people were included in the efficacy of that death when one died all in him died our old man was crucified together with him in his past historical death and resurrection and ascension and so there's this solid arrack relation that's similar to the way Adam is our federal had Adam in his sin and fall Christ in his obedience and righteousness he is the one who represents us includes us so that we are united to him in the past historical sense of the term as a federal head he lives and dies and rises in the sins as our mediator thirdly and this this gets to what we would call present personal Union union with Christ in our life experience the the the point is this that by the spirit in and of a work of effectual calling God renews us grants us faith and in our effectual calling by faith we are united to the crucified and ascended Christ we're United to the whole Christ and the efficacy of both the states is at work for us as we're united to him he we are united to him in spirit forged faith and so we make a distinction and we say we are not actually existentially personally United to Christ in our life experience until a until your moment until a time in our life history Paul in Ephesians 2 you once walked in sin and disobedience but you have been made alive together with Christ you have been saved by grace through faith and by the spirit not my works you have been saved as you have been joined to this crucified and ascended Christ that's present personal union and we distinguish it from decreto Union past historical Union and then say that present personal Union brings to fruition and fulfilment all that was decreed for the church from eternity and all that was accomplished for the church in the humiliation and exaltation of Christ present personal union brings us into vital contact with Christ so that we might benefit from all that he is and all that he has done in his life death resurrection and subject let me read a Westminster Confession of faith 11 for mmm this brings justification to bear right on the heels of it you got it God from all eternity decreed to justify all the elect and Christ did in the fullness of time died for their sins and rise again for their justification nevertheless they are not justified until the Holy Spirit doth in due time actually apply Christ unto them so there's there's significant things to mention here that although from before the foundation of the world in predestination in God's decree he had allowed sin he had also elected his people he sent Christ and decreed that Christ would be born that he would live and die for the sins of those people that he elected that they would be raised from the dead in and through him in history when Christ was but when we're speaking of justification we're speaking at least according to the Westminster standards and with the Bible here were speaking in terms of the Ordo salutis or that is the order of salvation were the activity of the Holy Spirit to apply the the person and work of Christ to his people in their personal experience I was not justified prior to believing upon Jesus Christ alone for my salvation now I was justified as a child I do not know when exactly that happened I cannot point to a point in time but I can tell you this there was a point in time when it happened I'm not consciously aware of the moment that I was justified but it was between August 2nd 1980 and now well you know what I mean that's my confidence right in the Lord that I've been saved because of what Jesus has done for me so when we're speaking of justification here and when we're speaking of union with Christ we're talking on these terms about existential Union personal union that we experience in our own personal lives we're speaking in the categories of Ordo salutis and that's an extremely important category the difference between historia salutis and Ordo salutis roughly speaking John Murray wrote a book on this called Redemption accomplished redemption applied but when we're talking these Latin terms and we use them frequently here at reformed forum Ordo salutis is the work of the spirit to change a sinner in their life at that moment the Lord effectually calls them they're regenerated they then have faith because they've been changed they've been had their wills renewed their minds enlightened so that they can embrace Christ as he's offered to them in the gospel now that they have been remade faith is given to them and this faith springs up from them so that they cling to Christ in that faith having that faith they then are justified by faith they are adopted by faith they are sanctified by faith they are and will be glorified and raised from the dead by faith of course that's shorthand shorthand by grace through faith and they will persevere to the end and when Christ returns they'll be caught up together with him in the clouds and we will be glorified to receive glorified bodies as our Lord had after he was raised from the dead we'll enter into the new heavens and new earth that way that's that's in short the Ordo salutis but what we want to emphasize here is how that Ordo salutis relates to what Jesus did what Jesus did is that he lived for us he died for us bearing our sins then he was raised from the dead and in that resurrection he was in a matter of course for us justified he was vindicated by the spirit 1st Timothy 3:16 were there justified by the spirits the same word he was also sanctified you go look at Romans 6:4 this he was also adopted let me say that sounds kind of weird well he was declared to be the Son of God and powered in the resurrection from the dead Romans one three and four also Romans eight speaks about adoption in these resurrection patterns so that these are all ways in which Jesus resurrection is simultaneously his justification adoption and sanctification for us but that all occurs in historia salutis that is not our Ordo salutis so it is not exactly proper to speak about what Jesus did and his experience in dying and being raised from the dead we should not speak of that as our justification the most we could do is say that this is Jesus own justification as Messiah for us but we don't want to mix the categories do we Lane in terms of historian and Ordo salutis because we can end up in some very murky waters and some very confused statements if we start to mix the categories of historia and Ordo salutis so that we could start to say things like you have been justified therefore believe on the lord for your salvation so that you will be justified that makes no sense we can say Jesus died for his people and he's been raised again believe on the Lord Jesus Christ in order to be saved when you believe when you have that faith which is itself a gift of God you will have Christ's righteousness imputed to you and you will be declared righteous you will be saved that's a better way cleaner way to speak but if we mix-up historian weirdo salutis and then start using justification on both sides of it we can end up in some very problematic territory yeah yeah we can and just just to pick up on one point that you brought up that I think we can always be clear on this well this will help people understand what we're saying the fact that Jesus died to sin in Romans 6 his is is here's the way to think about it his whole life on earth was a continual continuing perfect dying to sin because he was never subjected to it he was never bound by it he died to it all of his earthly life but then when the cross came it was a definitive and once for all goodbye to the realm of sin altogether and when he was raised he was raised alive to God ascended up into heaven and he no longer participates in his estate of humiliation where he was in the sinful realm without participating in it dying to it all of his days that isn't that's no longer true he has died to that once for all the life he lives alive to God in heaven it's his forever that Principia perfect death to sin and life to God which belongs to Jesus alone that is the definitive ground for our breach with sins power and and so how do we breach it well we who are sinful by Nature when we're joined to Christ by faith we die irreversibly to sin and then our whole life in this age is a progressive dying to sin and union with Christ as we're alive to God and it's climactically consummated at the second coming of Jesus so we've got to make that distinction and the distinction that you're making Camden so critical Westminster Confession eleven four makes it here's here's the key Jesus died for our sins rose for our justification Romans 4:25 so that when he rose as justified his resurrection was with a view toward our justification mm-hmm though he passed probation perfectly he died to sin perfectly he's not doing it for himself he's doing it from us here it is and so when he rises as justified force Timothy 3:16 our confession 11 force going to say that resurrection was not just his vindication it was for our justification in him but then this clause nevertheless they the church believers those who are in the church trusting in Jesus Christ they are not justified until the spirit in due time actually applies Christ to them here's a basic thing that distinguishes the deeper Protestant conception from Bart Bart says believe that you have been justified in gushing to believe so that in order pardon me believe that you have been justified already by Christ Inga stricter that's the message of bart the message of the Reformation rooted in Paul is found in Galatians 2:16 we believe so that we might be justified by faith in Christ in other words faith is unto justification so that until the Spirit works faith in you and unites you to Christ you are not actually justified before the tribunal of God Christ's righteousness has not been actually applied to you and you have not actually received that imputed righteousness by faith so your distinction Camden I think is critical and we must maintain that Jesus in accomplishing salvation was justified and rose for our justification but we cannot say that we are justified until the spirit in due time only implies Christ to us and we are justified by faith so there's no declaration of righteousness for us not until the time at which we are you have faith that's it because if we don't have faith we don't have the righteousness because the faith is that instrument of justification it's it's the way in which we receive his righteousness there's no other mechanism yes by which we have the righteousness of Christ than by spirit wrought faith that means a faith that is given to us and worked in us by the Holy Spirit okay let's keep backing up so that means the effectual calling Amen I can use a real quick illustration I was converted when I was 19 it's quite clear ask anyone you know they'll say yeah Tipton was converted for sure right and so here's the point and even though I've been ordained unto justification even though Christ died for me and rose for my justification thousands of years before thousands of years prior I was an object of Wrath in history because I was not united to Christ by the spear and through faith and so his righteousness had not been actually reckoned to me existentially reckoned to me imputed to me because I was not yet united to Christ by faith yeah I want to I want to finalize our conversation on that exact point that you spoke about being united to Christ by faith so we've spoken about a confessional and biblical definition of the justification we've spoken about justifications relationship to faith we've spoken about how believers are relating or how they relate to the work of Christ in history and the importance of understanding what Christ has done and then the spirit applying what he did to us history of salutis Ordo salutis Redemption accomplished redemption applied but now we want to make very just crystal clear the connection between faith and union with Christ in terms of union with Christ that is an existential personal union that occurs in time yes now when we're speaking about union with Christ in relation to Ordo salutis so anything about the ordering of salvation or any salvific so tarik benefit in our lives and by that we mean effectual calling regeneration justification adoption sanctification glorification perseverance anything on those categories that you're gonna find in a systematic theology textbook when we're speaking about union with Christ in those categories it is inseparable from faith because it is the faith that unites us to Christ amen faith is receiving and resting upon Jesus Christ alone for our salvation it's only possible by the work of the Spirit the Holy Spirit third person of the Trinity he works that faith in us we hold on to Christ by that faith so we have Christ and all of his benefits so there is no consideration no possibility to consider union with Christ according to the Ordo salutis apart from faith I'm not conflating them to say they're exactly the same thing but I'm saying we are united to Christ by faith there's no way we can speak about having faith without being united to Christ because of the very nature of faith neither is there any way in Ordo salutis that we could speak about being United to Christ prior to or logically prior to having faith they go hand in glove always oh they did question-and-answer 30 of the Shorter Catechism that it is so useful it has helped me so much over the years how does the spirit apply to us not so we're not talking about decree I'm not talking about the accomplishment of redemption we're talking about the application how does the spirit apply to us the redemption purchased by Christ answer the spirit applies to us the redemption purchased by Christ by working faith in us and thereby uniting us to Christ in our effectual calling is again much much more direct than that so it's so helpful the faith just remember we're as robust Augustinians we are dead in sins and trespasses we have but no capacity to approach God because of our sin right so what spirit do unilaterally moehner gistic alee in our effectual calling he works faith in us and unites us to Christ and raises us up with him that is the that is the alpha point of the Ordo salutis the starting point of the order so loose spirit gifted faith unites to the Ascended Christ mm it has to be that way and it is that way we're so thankful for that so now let us help some of our reformed listeners and others who might question how justification relates to union with Christ which comes before I think that's the bad question to ask or maybe we could be more precise so since Union and faith according to our Ordo salutis consideration which is very much falling as a consequence of Westminster Shorter Catechism question 30 we cannot divide union with Christ from faith so then we start to ask and we've already established the relationship of justification to faith Allah Westminster Confession of faith 11 for we are not yet justified until that point in time that we have the faith that has worked in us by the Holy Spirit therefore we are not justified in any other way but by being United to Christ were justified by grace through faith but that faith by which we are justified is a faith that unites us to Christ so we can speak and ought to speak of our union with Christ manifesting justification or speaking the other way around justification manifests our union with Christ even as our adoption manifests our union with Christ even as our sanctification and glorification manifests our union with Christ so that whenever we consider any of the benefits of salvation we always must consider that they come to us from Jesus and because we are united to him we have his benefits every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Camden when I was at Westminster California that is dr. strimm 'pls Ordo salutis I just want that to be said I remember dr. shrimpo so clearly laying out that as dead and sinned and incapable of approaching God the spirit in effectual calling and regeneration sovereignly makes us alive grants us faith renews our minds liberate sour wills redirects our affections to rest on Christ alone as he's revealed in the gospel and then from that union flows the benefits that attended and the benefits that attend that union the benefits that manifest that union are at minimum justification of dominance and whatever else flow from our close but you know just to hammer this home one more time if some people might say well how that how does how does this all work together let me let me word it in a different way is it conceivable for us to be justified apart from faith know what reformed person is going to say that now if the union with Christ we're talking about is a union that we have by faith we are united to Christ by faith the spirit apply to us the redemption purchased by Christ by working faith in us and thereby uniting us to Christ in our effectual calling now that's prior to the questions on justification adoption or sanctification in the standards so I'm not saying these are exactly the same statements but they're equivalent and as foundational and as forceful to say that Union that the justification precedes or is logically prior to union with Christ is equivalent to saying that justification precedes or is logically prior to having faith and if you're justified prior to having faith that is a semi Pelagian or worse doctrine of justification it is in no way shape or form reformed yes you know can then I don't want to push this too hard because I don't like recommending things I've written but back in about two thousand twelve or thirteen I gave a lecture on the relationship between just the declarative and the impute ativ aspects of justification and here was the thesis because I'm confessional and follow our standards some reformed theologians depart from our standards teaching or add to it Lewis Birkhoff is a good example in this but my whole argument was this that the Declaration of righteousness that obtains before the tribunal of divine justice the declaration of righteousness does not occur prior to spirit wrought union with Christ by faith and the reception of his righteousness by the sole instrument of faith it's when that righteousness is imputed in union with Christ by the sole instrument of a faith it's then and only then that the declaration of that righteousness obtains at the tribunal of divine justice in heaven it's it really is important and here's why if you argue another reformed haven't done this but if you argue that the declaration of righteousness in justification somehow precedes union with Christ and the imputation of his righteousness you've got a legal fiction on your hands it's a legal the declaration is groundless in terms of your existential situation because you've not yet been clothed with the righteousness of Christ it has not yet been imputed to you and received by faith alone and so it really is critical and our standards I think make it indisputable that you are justified only by faith and never apart from or prior to faith that unites to Christ yeah and we hope we hope that's very clear I think we've made ourselves clear if not I hope that you rewind and listen again and write comments and ask questions we'd like for all people to at least understand where we're coming from and have an open and honest conversation about these things that is directed and submissive entirely to God's holy scripture and so with all that in mind we hope there's been a productive conversation and that we can have clarity and agreement on these these basic points and we're looking forward to having a lot more conversations about other topics pertaining to the doctrine of justification but we really believe that we need to have these basic categories in mind if we're going to approach the subject in a proper biblical and confessional frame of mind so with that being said I know we've got to go but I just want to our listeners to this that what I'd like to do maybe in a future discussion is examine the work of your hardest boss in the Pauline eschatology Richard Gaffin in resurrection and redemption and think about the way the resurrection of Christ and his justification as raised first Timothy 3:16 how that provides the forensic ground or the legal ground for our justification by faith yeah so if you're looking for the legal ground for our union with Christ by the spirit and through faith it's not our justification in union with Christ it's the justification of Christ himself right and that is the path the constructive path that later on I'd like us to try to to blaze because I think it's an advancement a very helpful advancement of these really basic categories so I do I want our listeners to go back these basics have to be in place before we take the next big step and look at vos and Gaffin and see the flowering of this deeper protestant conception of justification again yeah and it's necessary that we understand historia and Ordo salutis to speak about that but again to speak about the legal basis of our justification being the work of Christ or B you know we're confusing because that is Christ's justification which of course is for us he doesn't do it for himself but we're not yet justified until that time in which we have faith and are united to Christ they must minister confession of faith 11 for so we'll follow up on this in future episodes of course we've got a lot of great episodes lined up and in store for you I'm very excited I have a lot of things on the calendar so a lot of wonderful guests and a lot of wonderful topics coming up so stay tuned and subscribe if you're not already subscribed already and I want to welcome all of the new subscribers on YouTube that we've been posting I don't know for about six months maybe not that long but been posting the videos every week on YouTube and we're very thankful to get a couple hundred views every week there so hello and welcome to all of our new youtube viewers and subscribers and we're also on facebook so we put the videos there too and I want to apologize too to all of you and to your friends who might be seeing our videos and in their feed and they don't want to so that's just how Facebook works but Facebook's algorithms work it all out in the future if you'd like to get any of our episodes you can find them online at Reformed forum org and there we we also embed the video into the posts if you want audio or video copies they're all available and of course you can interact with us online and through the social media means Facebook's a good way but also you can tweet us at Reformed forum we want to thank everybody for listening we hope you join us again next time on Christ the Center you