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today we're at iTap an electronics recycling facility in los angeles founded by Erik Lundgren who's made it his business to take discard of electronics piece them apart so that way they can be used again this business has also landed him into a heap of trouble after losing his last appeal eric has been sentenced to 15 months in federal prison and fined $50,000 for duplicating 28,000 OAM delery store cd's eric argues that he was just trying to keep the PCs out of the landfill and that the software that was on the disk was freely available online and necessary to prolong the life of these computers so I'm a hybrid recycler and I coined that phrase about Oh 10 years ago it was based on an ideology of well let's reuse everything for its utilitarian function its values utilitarian value rather than just shredding everything and destroying all the value let's use it as a whole if it works and then parts if the whole is broken and then components if the parts are broken and then let's go ahead and recycle for commodity value i I went to China to study eat waste because that's where all the heat waste was going and all of these innovative solutions were about reusing parts and reusing components so we were getting them all these parts and components and one of these brokers called us up and he said hey we need to get this restored tool made when we said sure and he shipped us one and we looked at it and we went ok this is a Dell restore tool and we looked online and we realized it was free to download and then we realized it you could actually call Dell and Dell would ship you one for free and they would pay for the shipping these restored disks allow you to restore your computer to factory settings as long as you already have a valid Windows license according to Eric this is an incredibly important distinction because without the valid license these disks are essentially worthless a restore disk doesn't have a license that is the most important thing that you need to get across to people what we try to explain to a judge that he didn't understand basically the judge was convinced by Microsoft that a restore CD and a full blown new operating system with licensing coa are the same thing that they function the same that they're valued the same the judge presiding over Eric's case valued the restored discs at the lowest price Microsoft sells their license operating system for holding him responsible for seven hundred thousand dollars worth of pirated Windows software but Eric wasn't reproducing new software licenses just the restore disks my name is Nathan Proctor I'm the director of US perks rights repair campaign US PIRG is a national network of nonprofits of state Public Interest research groups and we stand up and fight for consumers whenever their rights are threatened or our democracy is threatened Erik reached out to us you know kind of in between you know his case going to appeal and then hearing back and we started looking into it you know kind of in the context of how this case relates to other actions that companies take using copyright to try and disadvantage repair it is a curious case because the fact that there were criminal charges it is routine for companies to you know use civil litigation whenever there's a disagreement about licenses or rights etc we see that kind of universally across the industry but we really haven't seen it come to criminal prosecution and that is not the kind of thing we want to see we think that that will have a chilling effect on people innovating and thinking about how to how to find new uses for products and to continue products in use in a rebuttal post on Microsoft's official blog they say they support refurbishing or cycling through their own programs stating we have programs that support refurbishers altogether these programs have more than 3,000 members recycling millions of pcs they've even said that they've cut back on the number and types of piracy cases they bring saying we remain committed to protecting our when we see others working to deceive them especially when they're acting unlawfully we often pursue actions for example against phone scammers who masquerade as technical support to trick into fraud customers we similarly remain concerned when counterfeiters seek to deceive customers even moreso when they're seeking to profit from this activity I mean the majority of recyclers follow this this legal guideline that says the license follows the hardware in perpetuity until the hardware's demise it's real simple real clear if you mess with licenses you are stealing from Microsoft if you're providing free restore cities that everybody can download for free online every one of your viewers watching this can go do exactly what I did that shouldn't be illegal it's not illegal it doesn't hurt anybody there's no victims there's no damages I want to make sure that people are empowered to be able to determine what happens to their rightfully owned property and if they want to recycle it great let somebody like me go ahead and reuse it and turn it into good for the world and if they don't want to recycle it even better keep using it please as long as you possibly can so that that way we get the most out of the tools that we have in our society and the most benefit comes from them before you want to recycle them but when you do recycle them we're going to try to fix them we're going to try to part them out we're gonna try to do the best thing that we can for society with all of this waste that comes to us and we want none of it to go into a landfill it's okay if Microsoft doesn't want to do that or if any other OEMs want to do that if they want to sell products and focus on that that's great but don't stop us don't don't throw us in prison don't turn this into an issue where if we want to do what's best for people we're going to end up stepping in your way and stepping in a pile of whatever I'm dealing with today